Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 12 Apr 2002 to 13 Apr 2002 (#2002-101) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 14/04/2002, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 17 messages totalling 703 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. The Drow vs. Shadow Elves Debate (5) 2. Dark Elves vs. Drow (4) 3. Basic for beginners (was 2E vs 3E) 4. 2E vs 3E (2) 5. The Drow vs. Shadow Elves Debate (2) 6. Glantri box (3) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:31:34 +0200 From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: The Drow vs. Shadow Elves Debate David Keyser wrote: > Jacob Skytte wrote: > > With no mention of Dark Elves anywhere, I can only conclude that = they were part of those false memories. Apparently Allston didn't want = any Dark Elves on Mystara either. > =20 > Now, I admit to nitpicking here but this is an assumption on your = part. It doesn't say that the Dark Elves were > false memories at all, only that the false memories were they lived in = Rockhome and were expelled from there. > It really can go either way. You are right, that is an assumption on my part (I thought that was = clear?), but a very reasonable one as I see it. The HW Book completely = destroys the backstory of the Modrigswerg. They never lived in Rockhome, = they were never expelled, in fact they were recreated from the old = dwarven race and planted in the Northern Reaches where the old dwarven = race used to have large colonies. Then they were given false memories, = since the newly created race had to have some, I suppose, giving a = convenient excuse for ignoring what was already written. The fact that = there is absolutely no mention of Dark Elves in the HW Book says a lot, = I think. > I don't have GAZ7 in front of me, but I seem to recall that the dark = elves were native to an outer plane that > was part of Viking mythology, like the world tree. As such dark elves = are really optional, and with so little > information about them, you can make them anything you want, and if = you don't want them, they have left > or never had a presence on Mystara. Yes, their ancestors were supposed to live in an Outer Plane (as were = the ancestors of the Elves and the Dwarves according to the same = section). Svartalfheim (home of the Dark Elves), Alfheim (home of the = High Elves) and Swergheim (home of the Dwarves) are among the Nine = Worlds of viking mythology. The section they appear in is purposefully = vague and suggestive and what have you, and is occasionally at odds with = some other material, since it is a direct interpretation of RW viking = mythology and the rest of Mystara isn't. This is why I'm saying that = using Dark Elves from GAZ 7 is mostly appropriate to a viking campaign = that tries to incorporate that mythology. Of course, anyone is free to do with them as they will, but I am arguing = that while Dark Elves were an official part of Mystara in GAZ 7, they = were later explained away (or rather they and their contribution to = Mystara were completely ignored) in the HW Book. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:41:32 -0700 From: Jordi Castille Subject: Re: Dark Elves vs. Drow Poorly thought out? Have you read any of the Drow Trilogy books, or the FR's Drow of the Underdark source book. This is why i don't get along with MacNerd, i have to point out that not alot of Players of Mystara Take Sociology, or decided to study anthropology, if they went to college they would have chosen the easier Biology 101 over Anthro 101 to finish their general ed. requirement. This was a made up society, The makers of the game created the Drow to be used as version of the evil elves for their Queen of Spiders Trilogy of Adventures, the only problem was that they became so popular that went the Realms came into existance, they decided to make a society out of it. Both the Shadow Elf and the Drow are pretty similar, they live underground, they burn their skin easily in the sun, they harbor very powerful magic, and their services are invaluable to any nation as spies or allies. The only difference is that the Drow as female dominated, their culture is a mix of many, T ! hey have an aspect of the Inca culture where if one person commited a crime, the entire house could be annilated depending on the severity of the crime. I thought they were pretty well done, then got better when TSR refined the race as a whole. macnerd wrote: As the Drow are presented in FR and GH, I wholly do not support this. This is a poorly thought out society and really poor material. Anyone who has taken sociology or anthropology can understand the numerous mistakes within FR material. Not only that the whole god doesn't exist. It's just a poor match for Mystara in many regards. However, I would support a completely unique race of beings called the Dark Elves, which have nothing to do with FR/GH material. IMC, I have Dark Elves as being psionic and living in a complete underworld hidden from all surface dwellers. They are hidden for many reasons, as their discovery or interference could lead to their destruction. I also draw a relation between the fall of the Nithian Empire and the Dark Elves, and it is for some of these reasons they remain hidden. The secret enemy of the gnomes are the Dark Elves, as the gnomes are immune to the psiconic effects of the Dark Elves. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Once again, we have a problem with giving creatures psionics, it makes them to powerful, giving a creature powers and weapons of the mind, make me want to say Screw this the campaign, you watch a twilight zone episode where the town is run by a little boy, for which if the people don't think happy thoughts they are sent "to the cornfield." How do you plan to defeat a creative that can make your character feebleminded with just a thought? Just imagine Emperor Thincol ruling Thyatis with just Psionics, it's a very scary thought. All i hate to say is that if you want to have "Jean Greys" and "Professor Xaviers" running around all over mystara be my guest. I don't want it, i wasn't a fan of Yuri Gellar then, and i am still not a fan of him now. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:52:20 -0700 From: Jordi Castille Subject: Re: The Drow vs. Shadow Elves Debate Here's another Idea, instead of that, Why make an Immortal Candidate turn those Elves into the Drow, the Path of Entrophy has many trials, !. Destroy a nation(what Hosadus is attempting to do.) 2. Create a Race of Evil Being(What Nyx did.) 3. Corrupt an Empire(What Atzanteotl did to the Azcan Empire) or 4. Destroy an Immortal Item that benefits mystara(One candidate became immortal by destroying an artifact made by Thanatos, why not turn the tables.) Let the candidate as part of her final part of the Immortal Trial, turn the Shadow Elve faction under her control into the Drow, they would immediately be cursed by Ixion to burn from the rays of the sun as punishment for their corruption, name her Lolithor, those other elves who begin to worship her worldwide on mystara as she rises to immortal will be corrupted as well. during the first century of her existant. Just a thought. Jordi Castille, Knight of Darokin. Just Another Grue wrote: Well, for my part, I've never played through WotI and Shadow Elves are about my favorite antagonist for Mystara. However I think Drow are quite useful as purely evil antagonists. I don't want Alfheim to fall but see the use of a surface elven migration. I'm starting my new campaign in 996 A.C. and will build towards WotI and see how it plays out for my new group. Instead of either just a Shadow Elf homeland in Karameikos or the desolation of Alfheim I'm opting for another route.... a Shadow Elf civil war as the Rafiel/Atzanteotl factions square off over the issues of peaceful settlement or continued war. The idea is still in its infancy yet. I expect there will be some destruction in Aflheim but that it will spill over into Darokin. One faction of Shadow Elves will be totally given over to war, vengeance and the destruction of their surface cousins. The other will only want a peaceful land of their own in the sunlight realms. The ones consumed by visions of Entropy will make a terrible pact for vengeance and become the ebon-skinned Drow. The Shadow Elves who follow Rafiel will eventually ally with their surface cousins, humans and dwarves. Even when they go through the ritual (mentioned by someone else) to live on the surface they will always remain very pale and prefer the twilight hours and night times. I'm not sure how it will work out since I can't predict my players that well. But that's the rough idea. mystaraknight@YAHOO.COM wrote: > Ah the great Drow-Shadow Elf Debate, we have heard this before alot, but for the sake of arguement, The Shadow Elves was developed to make thm unique to the D&D world of Mystara during it's original system, ..... > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 18:17:39 +0000 From: kevin wyton Subject: Re: Basic for beginners (was 2E vs 3E) > From: Stone Marshall > Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: [MYSTARA] Basic for beginners (was 2E vs 3E) > Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:20:41 -0500 > > Tonight we are going to play DDA4 - The Dymrak Dread. I played this one > with > my old group about 5 years ago. Teaching my son how to play basic and how > to > role-play a character is very thrilling! Basic makes the rules easy to play > and one day we may move up to AD&D. His fighter PC is based on the warrior > in the vidio game Shadows of Mystara. We have it downloaded on the > computer. > He bought several bottles of oil and daggers to throw because of the game > :) > Tonight we take on the lair of the goblins !!!!!! He looks forward to the > weekends and it has rekindled the old feeling I used to get when I was 14 > and learning how to play!!!!!! > > Multizar the Mage, DM, and proud DAD :) > > >> From: Mike Harvey >> Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion >> To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >> Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] 2E vs 3E >> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:35:16 -0700 >> >> multizar2001@HOTMAIL.COM >> >I am currently teaching my son, who is 9, how to play D&D. >> >He has a 2nd level fighter and we are in the Dymrak Forest >> >hunting humanoids. >> >> I can hardly wait till my son is old enough. I've also been thinking >> of starting him with Basic, and am gonna grab all the PDFs so I'll >> have a permanent copy. (Books wear out eventually!) >> >> >3rd edition is fine for the 15 to 25 crowd with plenty >> >of time on thier hands to learn all the rules and changes, >> >but as for this old fogey ;) >> >> That's the main thing for me. 3rd edition is a good game and I've had >> fun with it, but overall I just don't have the time or energy to put >> into it any more. Despite all my arguments in a previous post, the >> REAL reason I'm leaving 3E is it's just too time-consuming; I could >> deal with the rest. If I were a college student or single it would be >> a lot different. I stick to simple stuff anymore. >> >> Mike >> >> -- >> Mike Harvey -- Beaverton, OR >> http://members.dsl-only.net/~bing/ >> > > My son is only four but he likes to sit on my lap as I play Baldurs GateII > he can already identify most of the monsters. I am currently keeping an eye > out for the basic sets to start him off with when he gets older. Hopefully > when our cruel world begins stealing away the magic around him I can > replace it with the magic of Mystara. Kevin > _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 13:13:38 -0600 From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: 2E vs 3E > If a GM wanted to create classes, it's simplier in 2e, as > he would create the class under one of the groups. In 3e, > it's far more complicated, has one has to have a specific > set of skills per that class. > Yes it was quicker and only simpler because it didn't ensure game balance. This is just another reason why there were a lot of broken kits in the game. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 16:49:47 -0400 From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: The Drow vs. Shadow Elves Debate > Gilles, > Back in '99' when i was on the MML before wizard took over, the talk was about the what to put in the adri varma plateau both above and below it, me and Fabrizio Paoli and later Cthuludrew agreed that the Drow would have a small place in the Adri Varma Plateua, as a place to modify and place the Night Below Campaign Expansion set. Most people don't understand about the Dark Elves, what are they going to call themselves when you meet them? Ok I didnt know, no one mentionned it to me. Altough I too was on the MML long before Wizard took over ( tough I was mostly a lurker ), just under a different name and email ( redwolf ), tough I quit for a number of years ( about 2 ) and then came back. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 16:52:38 -0400 From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: The Drow vs. Shadow Elves Debate > > Nice to know some people like the Drow, but if you want nastier creatures, look at the Illithids with their psionics and their use of mentalism, then you have the Beholders, oh god, I would have the party face off against an Ancient Red Dragon, then take on a beholder, Dragon will focus on one opponent while a beholder can focus on many opponents at once. That's why i would love to have the Drow IMC. > You want to have the drow in your campaign because the beholder's can focus on more than one enemies or because illithids use psionics ? I think you either forgot a sentence/idea or switched illithid with drow in your last sentence ? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 17:00:56 -0400 From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Dark Elves vs. Drow > Poorly thought out? Have you read any of the Drow Trilogy books, or the FR's Drow of the Underdark source book. This is why i don't get along with MacNerd, i have to point out that not alot of Players of Mystara Take Sociology, or decided to study anthropology, if they went to college they would have chosen the easier Biology 101 over Anthro 101 to finish their general ed. requirement. I have some questions with this statement... These are not attacks just questions I would like to be clarified. 1: How do you know as a fact that not a lot of Mystaran players haven't taken sociology ? Do you have access to some numbers or was this previously discussed on the list ? 2: Why do you assume the type of poeple who play Mystara are the type of poeple that would choose what you qualify an easier course over an harder one ? Is it your opinion that Mystara players take the "easiest" way out of college, that is if they ever went at all ! 3: Are these courses and requirements standard in the USA ? I live in Canada and I know some poeple on the list live in Europe also. In college where I live I didnt have to take either Biology or Anthropology. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 17:08:38 -0400 From: Michael McConnell Subject: Glantri box I've found it now, thanks. That'll teach me to ignore the player handouts and maps and go staight to the books.... Actually it's kind of cool that they had those in there, as I wasn't that thrilled with the "Test in Darkness" module, but some of these shorter ones are pretty cool. Oh, just for the record, there's also an illithid in "Mark of Amber". Not that I feel the need to inject mind flayers all over the place or anything (in fact I've never used them), I just thought I'd mention it. Which reminds me, I'll be running MoA soon and I need to find a different monster, as the party is way too tough for a mind flayer. Hmm.... ________________________________________________________________ Get your own evilemail.com address at http://www.evilemail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:44:50 -0700 From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: The Drow vs. Shadow Elves Debate At 23:48 4/11/02 -0700, Jordi Castille wrote: > We do know that the only mention of the Mind Flayer was in Glantri's Campaign sheets They're also mentioned in the Magic of Karameikos article in the Dragon. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:55:37 -0700 From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: 2E vs 3E At 12:13 4/12/02 -0700, macnerd wrote: > No. I am saying there are base classes that have an exact > set of skills for each class. 2E had class groups which had > their own skill lists. The WARRIOR, PRIEST, WIZARD, ROGUE > had their lists of skills and stats that all the classes > were grouped under. It was simpler and smooth. 3E has each > class have their specific set of skill list. It's more > complicated. I don't think it's any more complicated. One could argue it's simpler, when the fact is, it's just a slightly different approach. > If a GM wanted to create classes, it's simplier in 2e, as > he would create the class under one of the groups. In 3e, > it's far more complicated, has one has to have a specific > set of skills per that class. I'm not sure what else would define a class other than the things they can do. And try making a prestige class sometime. It's painfully easy to make a nice and balanced one. Given the monstrosities that have been created by fans and published in the Dragon over the years, I'd say it looks like it was harder to make new classes. >> >The 3E system did away of this and >> >remade everyone into generic priests. >> >> Um, no. There's a whole section about Domains, and >> they give specific >> examples in the PHB of how the domains for priests of >> different gods have >> different spells and abilities. Specialty priests are now the >> basic sort of >> cleric in the game. > > However, it just isn't the same feel. Also, the speciality > priests are done away with. Priests still seem too generic. > But, there's pretige classes and such, so the same can be > replicated with effort. The specialty priests AREN'T done away with. ALL clerics are specialty priests now. Every cleric gets two special powers based on their diety, and two spells per level because of it. Their spell list is also limited because of their diety, and even the Spiritual Hammer spell work on a per-diety basis now. > Any skills added to the game, would have to be evaluated with each > and every class in 3e, as the skill list is specific per class. No, they wouldn't. That's a weird thing to say. I've made several skills for my 3E campaigns, and each time, they were general skills by default, and if there was a class that screamed out for them, I'd put them on the class list. But since, say, there's no monks in my campaign, I didn't spend any energy worrying about it. >> The D20 Star Wars RPG would be a good starting point as well. > > Many criticize Star Wars d20, but nevertheless, there are some ideas there. >>> From what I am told, is that the game was rushed, and that there'll be a > second version with revised rules. The second version is only coming out to adapt the material from the new Star Wars movie. Rumors that it was rushed seem to be based around a misunderstanding. >> Well, it's your campaign. Beat the player with the >> PHB until they agree to >> read Rule Zero: Check with the DM first. > > I guess to each is there own. Some may want to mold Mystara > into 3e, while otheres may want to mold 3e into Mystara. :-) Why do you care what other people do, though? I limit the classes and races available to my players, and what classes the races can be. :) It is your campaign. If someone on the other side of the world has dwarven wizards in their campaign, how does that affect you? > For this reason, IMC, there is no language like COMMON, but > rather Thyatian, Alphatian, Hulean, Traldaran, etc. Thyatian = Common. ;) BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:57:20 -0700 From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: The Drow vs. Shadow Elves Debate At 12:29 4/12/02 -0700, macnerd wrote: > I can agree to go with a unique race, but not Drow. > I agree with Ethan about Drow being pathetic. I > actually purchased FR Drow material as was deeply > disgusted as I thought this was the some of the > worst material I read coming out of TSR. Those are the Forgotten Realms Drow. They are NOT the original Drow, which predate the Forgotten Realms setting by almost a decade. If people are massively offended by the portrayal of the Drow in the D1-3 series, I'd be surprised. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 15:38:26 -0700 From: Jordi Castille Subject: Re: Glantri box Consider the beholders from the Monsterous Arcana, they are very nasty foes to take on, no matter what your character levels are. If you don't believe me, try them. Michael McConnell wrote: I've found it now, thanks. That'll teach me to ignore the player handouts and maps and go staight to the books.... Actually it's kind of cool that they had those in there, as I wasn't that thrilled with the "Test in Darkness" module, but some of these shorter ones are pretty cool. Oh, just for the record, there's also an illithid in "Mark of Amber". Not that I feel the need to inject mind flayers all over the place or anything (in fact I've never used them), I just thought I'd mention it. Which reminds me, I'll be running MoA soon and I need to find a different monster, as the party is way too tough for a mind flayer. Hmm.... ________________________________________________________________ Get your own evilemail.com address at http://www.evilemail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 15:42:49 -0700 From: Jordi Castille Subject: Re: Dark Elves vs. Drow Gilles Leblanc wrote: > Poorly thought out? Have you read any of the Drow Trilogy books, or the FR's Drow of the Underdark source book. This is why i don't get along with MacNerd, i have to point out that not alot of Players of Mystara Take Sociology, or decided to study anthropology, if they went to college they would have chosen the easier Biology 101 over Anthro 101 to finish their general ed. requirement. I have some questions with this statement... These are not attacks just questions I would like to be clarified. 1: How do you know as a fact that not a lot of Mystaran players haven't taken sociology ? Do you have access to some numbers or was this previously discussed on the list ? No one discusses sociology here, if they did, i would have gotten an A on my term paper. 2: Why do you assume the type of poeple who play Mystara are the type of poeple that would choose what you qualify an easier course over an harder one ? Is it your opinion that Mystara players take the "easiest" way out of college, that is if they ever went at all ! My opinion, because McNerd overanalyze a fictious race, you might as well discuss the Gorean lifestyle as well. 3: Are these courses and requirements standard in the USA ? I live in Canada and I know some poeple on the list live in Europe also. In college where I live I didnt have to take either Biology or Anthropology. U.S. Requirement for an Associate's Degree in California requires that i take a science class between Anthro 101 or Bio 101. Bio is much easier to study, because it's easier to study animal habits than human habits. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 15:47:25 -0700 From: Jordi Castille Subject: Re: The Drow vs. Shadow Elves Debate You want to have the drow in your campaign because the beholder's can focus on more than one enemies or because illithids use psionics ? I think you either forgot a sentence/idea or switched illithid with drow in your last sentence ? ******************************************************************** I chose to add the drow because they are more easier for the character to handle than a mind flayer or a Beholder, plus the Drow are mainly Evil. I don't like DMing a Mind Flayer, because Psionics gives them an unfair advantage. and I don't even want to deal with the Beholder, if you read the Monsterous Arcana's you would know why i won't deat with the Multiple Eyed creatures or the Psychic Menace. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 16:20:48 -0700 From: Brendan Corliss Subject: Re: Dark Elves vs. Drow Well, maybe Biology should be given a little more credit here. From a scientific standpoint, why would an underground race have black skin? Or dark skin at all? The answer is: the wouldn't. Organisms not exposed to sunlight eventually evolve into pale colored creatures (aka Shadow Elves & Schatten Elves). Now, don't get me wrong, I agree that a fantasy game shouldn't turn into a science class. However, one of the things that I like about Mystara (and I think alot of the people here will agree) is that (at least after it became a defined setting), IMO, Mystara tries to have plausible explanations for things that exist as opposed to alot of GH and *especially* FR. It seems to me that a lot of stuff in both those settings are there because somebody said, "Dude, wouldn't it be cool if ." Ok, FR & GH are not all bad, some of the ideas are pretty interesting (I'm even currently playing in a #E GH campaign). But they are *not* Mystara. The way they have all developed has been different with different goals and a different target audience. My point here is this, if you want Drow IYC - go for it. But the reason I imagine that most people here don't want the Drow (as detailed in GH & FR) in Mystara is simply this: there is no logical reason from them to naturally exist and the Shadow Elves and Schatten Elves fill the roles of (perceieved) antagonistic elves very well already. -Brendan Corliss Corliss Enterprises, Ltd. Darokin City (AKA Damon) PS Just for the record, I read the first Drizzt novel (Homeland?) and thought it was very good. There are alot of fantasy books that I have read that I have enjoyed... but that doesn't mean I want to take everything I like about them and put it in Mystara. ===== May all your endeavors be Gold! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 03:59:36 +0000 From: kevin wyton Subject: Re: Glantri box > From: Michael McConnell > Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: [MYSTARA] Glantri box > Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 17:08:38 -0400 > > I've found it now, thanks. That'll teach me to ignore the player > handouts and maps and go staight to the books.... > > Actually it's kind of cool that they had those in there, as I > wasn't that thrilled with the "Test in Darkness" module, but some > of these shorter ones are pretty cool. > > Oh, just for the record, there's also an illithid in "Mark of > Amber". Not that I feel the need to inject mind flayers all over > the place or anything (in fact I've never used them), I just > thought I'd mention it. > > Which reminds me, I'll be running MoA soon and I need to find a > different monster, as the party is way too tough for a mind > flayer. Hmm.... > Not sure what level your PC's are but our party is moving thru the Night Below set(with stuff apparently from the Illithiad). We are on average in the 8 to 10Lvl range (2E) and have found that with their magic resistance if we don't scatter to avoid their stun effect or get into melee immediately things get real bad real fast. Throw in some cannon fodder supporting the illithids and you can almost guarantee some mayhem. We've been real lucky so far but we are expecting to lose someone soon. Kevin _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 12 Apr 2002 to 13 Apr 2002 (#2002-101) ****************************************************************