Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 15 Apr 2002 to 16 Apr 2002 (#2002-104) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 17/04/2002, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 40 messages totalling 2126 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. A cool gaming session (3) 2. rockhome adventure 3. The Drow vs. Shadow Elves Debate (6) 4. The Drow vs. Shadow Elves Debate (2) 5. Why Drow don't fit in Mystara? 6. Placing Drow in Mystara... (2) 7. Creating a Unique Dark Elf for Mystara? 8. Adventures 9. 2E vs. 3E 10. Dark Elves *do* exisit in Mystara, I have proof. 11. Dark Elves vs. Drow 12. Basic for beginners (was 2E vs 3E) 13. Week without Magic & Day of Dread (4) 14. AMP Weapons (long) (2) 15. Glantri box 16. George's Current Mystara Campaign 17. Air Travel (2) 18. Ignorance, poverty, isolation and the Renaissance (long) 19. Magic Points 20. Need some ideas 21. Old World Nations Foreign Policy in 1,000 AC 22. Psionics in George's Campaign 23. Elven battle losses & Second Inhuman War (2) 24. Webpage 25. Known World Map ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:50:04 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: Re: A cool gaming session Chris, it seems we are using slightly different statistics for the armies of Karameikos. An idea of a 24th level fighter in Karameikos or Black Eagle doesn't fit the power levels I've been using (or was is a typo?). But in any case, I agree that the army of Hendricks would be comprised of marcenaries and troops that are mostly loyal to themselves and the power they managed to grab while in the service of the Black Eagle. (Although I don't include humanoids in the Black Eagle army, they are at most temporary allies. This fits my idea of Black Eagle better. Then again, the Nomad Divisions hold hundreds and hundreds of humanoids. BTW, I decided that not all of the divisions were shipped to Karameikos, just the core elements. Most of the humanoid troops were gathered from surrouding tribes.) So, the troops of the Black Eagle could very well join with the Nomads, regardless of what the Nomads do (establish a power base in Black Eagle and the surrouding areas, attack Shire and/or try to punch through to southern Darokin - which would weaken the coming attempt to break the Darokin City siege considerably -, attack Karameikos, or try to punch through to northern Karameikos and march to Selenica in order to join the Ylari siege of the City?). The trouble just is, as you yourself noted, that neither the Nomads or the Black Eagle troops are yet aware of the demise of their leaders (the Nomads lost their diplomatic, not military leaders in the area). "Now" it is 20th of Felmont. The retinue of Hendricks was supposed to reach Specularum of 21st, one or two days for negotiations, and three days bakc. So, the Black Eagle and Nomad troops are expecting them back on 26th the earliest. No serious reaction from them should be expected before that, unless I decide that Bargle was supposed to have teleported home with news after the negotiations. If that isn't the case, the troops can realistically react to the new situation on 28th the earliest (one or two days of checking what the hell is wrong - perhaps clerical information gathering revealing that Hendricks and Bargle are dead). We are playing again on Sunday, I hope. The trouble is that I have no idea what the PCs try to do next. They could create some clever story and have the two Karameikan Militias and Elvenguard attack Black Eagle by surprise. Or they can just decide to wait and see the reactions of the opposition. They have even talked of leaving the war to their allies and going to Shire, since they know that the hilt of the Dagger of Cymorrak is there. (Well, Darokinian ambassador Estella Whitehall will no doubt remind them that they still need the Karameikos as an ally in the war. Without Karameikan troops they can't liberate Selenica. And they also need a Karameikan volunteer unit for their multinational army.) I just have to leave thing very open and wing it. Ville ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:55:40 +0200 From: Glim Garrick Subject: Re: rockhome adventure Thanks a lot for your comments, I see I need to add some sort of explanation. Our party never played WotI and the world has been developing totally differently. In the course of years 1000-1005 AC, the war between undead forces of Ardelfia and the races of KW burst out. Actually, the Alphatians have been behind the plot with some intervention of immortals. Darokin and Alfheim were destroyed, other countries touched more or less. Many Darokinians and Alfheimers fled to Glantri, namely Broken Lands (Glantri stayed neutral and Ardelfia focused on other opponents). So BL became populated and currently are the most inhabited principality of Glantri. No PCs are humanoids. Actually, they are 2 elves, 1 human, 1 gnome and 1 half-orc (who definitely will not be participant in negotiating party). Actually many non-humanoids helped Kol to coronatian as a King. BL is very liberal and democratic country (sort of Darokin Republic) the fact that helped to set up the peace between various races living in the area. I strongly believe my PCs got the cards in the hands they can use when dealing with dwarves. Many years ago when adventuring first time in area of Broken Lands, they freed the tormented souls of dead dwarves and brought the peace to them. Only the oldest dwarves will know about history of their kin in BL (about 400-500 years ago). Many dwarves banded together with Alfheim elves to fight the Ardelfia and one of my PCs (elf) is in sort of "Gimli-Legolas" relationship with son of dwarven clan leader. Moreover, PCs assume the dwarves hate Glantrians (and are right). They want to structure the deal to be a win-win strategy for both, BL and Rockhome. BL may become the rich nation able to support the magical development to oppose strong magic Glantri possesses. Rochome may participate. Currently, Glantri pays almost no attention to conflict with one under-developed disobeying principality, as usual they are more indulged in internal conflicts and are not able to band forces effectively. My PCs were active in a few major conflicts between Glantrian nobility (kidnapping, personal feuds, bribery, etc.) and constantly support the old motivation of Ethengar to raid the borders with Glantri. BL and my PCs persuaded King Kol the best strategy is to develop the country as a trading nation, supporting the trade, democracy, schools, etc. Under cover, the BL wants to become strong (economically and military) and then set up final peace with Glantri (pretty naive, arent they). They want to reach the point when it is more advantageous for Glantri to tolerate the independence of BL then fight it openly. John Calvin cc: Sent by: Mystara Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] rockhome adventure RPG Discussion 15.04.2002 22:02 Please respond to Mystara RPG Discussion I'll give some comments. Since I'm at work and don't have access to my Rockhome Gaz, I'm short on details, but I'll let others (who will be more familiar with Rockhome) fill in the blanks. >> Hi everybody, I am newbie to this list, playing ADND 2e for 10 years. << Always nice to see new faces around here :) >> We are playing in Broken Lands under rule of Prince (actually King) Kol. Broken Lands are continually fighting with the rest of principalities of Glantri for independence. My players came up with idea that Broken Lands were place inhabited by dwarves mining magical ore (sort of mithril) ages ago. They suspect (and are actually right) the mines are still suitable for exploration and want to go to Rockhome to discuss the possibility to get some dwarven clans back to Broken Lands to refresh the production. Moreover the dwarves should help the country to fight out the Glantrian forces which gather on the borders of BL. << Are your PCs humanoids (orcs, goblins and such) unde Kol, or are they more traditional characters? I'll go with the assumption that they are humanoids unless you calrify. >> The idea sounds interesting for me and I want to prepare high role-playing adventure in Rockhome. Players prepared the main negotiation points listed below but things will not go as simply as they plan (obviously). So I would like to know something more about politics of Rockhome as it is in AC 1015-18. I have not been able to find out anything but Almanac entries. << Almanac entries will be all that you can find for these years. That being said I have a few ideas. No matter what (whether they are humanoids or not) the PCs are going to have a hard time convincing the Dwarves to join up with Prince Kol. The one thing that dwarves hate more than Glantrians are humanoids. If my PCs were going to attempt this, I would allow them to do so, but there would be 2 possible consequences: 1) The PCs proposal causes internal conflict in Rockhome society. Some of the more disposessed clans (like Wyrwarf) might be inclined to take them up on the deal. However other more traditional and military minded clans would not allow this to happen (The Torkrests, and Buhroder (sp?)). You may end up with a civil war on you hands at best. At worst, see #2 below. In any case things will progress to #2 eventually. 2) After hearing the proposal, the dwarves decide to mount an expidition and take back what is rightfully theirs by force. This will especially be the case if there is any proof of minable resources in the area. If there is no proof, the PCs should expect to encounter roving bands of dwarves trying to find such proof. Once the proof is found, then the dwarf armies will be on their way. Of course if the PCs are not themselves humaniods, then they might have some chance of success. However, if they are working for Kol I wouldn't hold my breath. I don't think there is a dwarf alive who would bow down to a kobold. -John ===== Rule #53. If the beautiful princess that I capture says "I'll never marry you! Never, do you hear me, NEVER!!!", I will say "Oh well" and kill her. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:00:42 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: Re: A cool gaming session On Mon, 15 Apr 2002, Jordi Castille wrote: > Interesting, but i would have had Baron Von Hendricks assaulting the > shires, making a pest of himself, preventing them from aiding Darokin, > which was being assaulted by the Hule/Sindhi army. I was thinking about this, but right now the Nomads (who can veto the strategic decisions of the Black Eagle) don't want anyone attacking the Shires. One piece of the Crystal Dagger of Cymorrak is there, guarded by a Spectre group sent there by the Nomad Agents. Any large-scale war coul risk the piece ending in the hands of the opposition, or even in the hands of Bargle (if he were alive, that is). The spectre menace has kept the halflins busy for the 2 1/2 months the war has been going on. Of course they are helping Darokin by sending food and other supplies, but they haven't been able to decide on interventions, since tens and tens of halflings have disappeared from the countryside. Several Heroes have been investigating this, but haven't found out the culprits yet. Also, the Nomad Divisions in Black Eagle were originally undersized, but they have been augmanted with local humanoids. Many goblin tribes living in Darokinian border hills have slipped through the Shires, creating a lot of alarm. Several goblinoid groups have been stopped by the Strikers. No clear link to the Nomads hasn't been found out by the halfling, though, as the goblins think they are seeking work with the Black Eagle. Thus, the Shires has been so alarmed by both the undead menace and a potential Black Eagle threat that they haven't been able to join Darokin. On the other hand, an attack into Shires could very well turn them to Darokin much quicker - and right now the Nomads don't want any more Darokinian allies. Ville ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:14:47 -0700 From: macnerd Subject: Re: The Drow vs. Shadow Elves Debate > David Keyser wrote: > > > Jacob Skytte wrote: > > > With no mention of Dark Elves anywhere, I can only > conclude that they were part of those false memories. > Apparently Allston didn't want any Dark Elves on Mystara either. > > > > Now, I admit to nitpicking here but this is an assumption > on your part. It doesn't say that the Dark Elves were > > false memories at all, only that the false memories were > they lived in Rockhome and were expelled from there. > > It really can go either way. > > You are right, that is an assumption on my part (I thought > that was clear?), but a very reasonable one as I see it. The > HW Book completely destroys the backstory of the Modrigswerg. > They never lived in Rockhome, they were never expelled, in > fact they were recreated from the old dwarven race and > planted in the Northern Reaches where the old dwarven race > used to have large colonies. Then they were given false > memories, since the newly created race had to have some, I > suppose, giving a convenient excuse for ignoring what was > already written. The fact that there is absolutely no mention > of Dark Elves in the HW Book says a lot, I think. Though other books don't mention High Elves, but that doesn't mean High Elves don't necesarily exist either. > > I don't have GAZ7 in front of me, but I seem to recall that > the dark elves were native to an outer plane that > > was part of Viking mythology, like the world tree. As such > dark elves are really optional, and with so little > > information about them, you can make them anything you > want, and if you don't want them, they have left > > or never had a presence on Mystara. > > Yes, their ancestors were supposed to live in an Outer Plane > (as were the ancestors of the Elves and the Dwarves according > to the same section). Svartalfheim (home of the Dark Elves), > Alfheim (home of the High Elves) and Swergheim (home of the > Dwarves) are among the Nine Worlds of viking mythology. The > section they appear in is purposefully vague and suggestive > and what have you, and is occasionally at odds with some > other material, since it is a direct interpretation of RW > viking mythology and the rest of Mystara isn't. This is why > I'm saying that using Dark Elves from GAZ 7 is mostly > appropriate to a viking campaign that tries to incorporate > that mythology. Mystara is a blending of many cultures, some based on RW cultures. It doesn't mean that the whole campaign has to be Viking culture, just becuase Dark Elves are apart of the Mystara-verse. The Master of the Desert Nomads worships Loki, under a different name. But Hule and Sind are definately far from being a viking culture. > Of course, anyone is free to do with them as they will, but I > am arguing that while Dark Elves were an official part of > Mystara in GAZ 7, they were later explained away (or rather > they and their contribution to Mystara were completely > ignored) in the HW Book. > > Jacob Skytte > scythe@wanadoo.dk I would disagree with that interpretation. The Hollow World mentions dwarven race and other aspects on a global level. The topic those paragraphs is dwarves, not elves. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:21:42 -0700 From: macnerd Subject: Re: The Drow vs. Shadow Elves Debate > > Do the Norse legends explicitly rely that this was due to their > > disposition? I remember that there were the Light Elves of > > Alfheim and the Dark Elves of Svartalfheim. I always thought > > light meant light and dark meant, well, dark. > > > > Do you have something against beings having dark skin? > > I really don't think this is what he meant. > In fact, the nuances of light and dark when referring to > elves imply more > about their nature than their coloration. The meaning depends on the > context. The Light Elves were benefactors of the good Norse > gods, while the > Dark elves were mischievous, and at odds with them (IIRC). > In this context, > the meaning is good elves, and bad elves. Are you saying that linguistically in the Scandinavian languages that good is the same as light and bad is same as dark? Or is this from cultural reference that light is good, and dark is bad? In Norse mythology, were Dark Elves really considered bad? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:29:07 -0700 From: macnerd Subject: Re: The Drow vs. Shadow Elves Debate > macnerd wrote: > > > > But to introduce something new here: For their color, I'm not > > > sure I'd want them to be black; Dark referring to their > > > disposition, not their skin, IMO. > > > > Do the Norse legends explicitly rely that this was due to their > > disposition? I remember that there were the Light Elves of > > Alfheim and the Dark Elves of Svartalfheim. I always thought > > light meant light and dark meant, well, dark. > > I started by saying "I'm not sure I'd want" and ended by > saying "IMO." Why should I need to justify what I said by > turning to Norse legends? But in all the mythology I've gone > through, I can't recall ever seeing anything about skin > color. The Alfheim Elves were noble and good, the Svartalfen > were vile and treacherous. This gives plenty of reason to > label one Light and the other Dark. Light and dark tells us > little without knowing what is light and what is dark. You > say light/dark skin, I say light/dark disposition. Let me ask one other question. Do, you associate dark with a bad disposition and light with a good disposition? > > Do you have something against beings having dark skin? > > Huh? Maybe I do for all you know (though I think making such > an accusation is a good way to start a flame war), but even > if so, that's not the reason I don't want Elves with dark > skin. Well, actually I do want some of those, living in a > place where such a skin color would be the norm. But Dark > Elves IMC (if I ever chose to use them) should be able to > blend in with other Elves, living among regular people > without such a prominent stigma. They would be rarer than > rare, planning great disasters for other beings out of spite > and hatred. > > Here's a thought that has nothing to do with viking mythology > btw: Any Elf questing for Immortality in the Sphere of > Entropy is a "Dark" Elf. That's where they come from. And > perhaps their skin even turns black as they progress towards > Immortality, making their later tasks harder to complete > since any ordinary Elf would know exactly what that dark skin > meant. Even makes some sense with the Modrigswerg history and > tells us why there officially aren't any Dark Elf communities > anywhere. > I was only curious to poke at your reasoning. Nothing more. However, you stated that "I think making such an accusation". Did I really make any accusation? I feel that I just posed a question. Nothing more. I am sorry if you something else was understood. This was not the intention. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:32:28 -0700 From: macnerd Subject: Re: The Drow vs. Shadow Elves Debate > At 12:29 4/12/02 -0700, macnerd wrote: > >I can agree to go with a unique race, but not Drow. > >I agree with Ethan about Drow being pathetic. I > >actually purchased FR Drow material as was deeply > >disgusted as I thought this was the some of the > >worst material I read coming out of TSR. > > Those are the Forgotten Realms Drow. They are NOT the > original Drow, which > predate the Forgotten Realms setting by almost a decade. If people are > massively offended by the portrayal of the Drow in the D1-3 > series, I'd be > surprised. The D1-3 series is cool!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 20:41:55 +0200 From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: The Drow vs. Shadow Elves Debate macnerd wrote: > Let me ask one other question. Do, you associate dark with > a bad disposition and light with a good disposition? I didn't want to continue this thread, and I'll stop here by answering = your questions and let it rest at that. I disagree with a lot of things, = but I can feel that nothing constructive will come out of my = participation and I probably shouldn't have said anything to begin with, = knowing that it's a volatile subject. Yes, I associate the word dark with "bad" and evil (and light with = good). But dark isn't actually a word I'd use for describing skin color, = and I don't think that "dark"-skinned people are necessarily any worse = than people with other skin colors. > I was only curious to poke at your reasoning. Nothing more. > However, you stated that "I think making such an accusation". > Did I really make any accusation? I feel that I just posed > a question. Nothing more. It seemed like an accusation to me, but if it wasn't, then no offense is = taken. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:45:23 -0700 From: macnerd Subject: Re: The Drow vs. Shadow Elves Debate > >Too late, the flame war has just begun. > > > >Jordi Castille. > > And this is where it can stop, too. > > If you want to talk about how drow might be placed in > Mystara, go ahead; > as I have said before, this is a benevolent dictatorship. :-) > > If you want to argue about whether drow are cool or not, or > whether they > have any place in Mystara whatsoever, then please remove it > to a private > discussion. You have a right to your own opinion, as do I, > and as does > everyone else on this list. Not everyone likes drow, and not everyone > thinks they belong in Mystara. This is a matter of opinion, but those > people who *do* think they might be an interesting thing to > add to Mystara > should be allowed to discuss it. If you don't like the > topic, don't read it. > > I don't mean to stop anyone here unnecessarily, but I don't > want this to > erupt into yet another flame war. > > Geoff Ditto!! I think some got personal and the debate got bashed out of proportion. I think there are three areas of opinions (add more if you some wish): (1) Those that oppose Drow/DarkElves in Mystara period! - discussions, reasons, cannon/lack-of-cannon, etc. (2) Those that want Drow (as presented in FR or GH) - ideas, innovations, how they could fit, how they wouldn't fit (3) Those that don't mind Drow (not as presented in FR or GH, but unique) - discussion of unique dark elves (a) skin color (dark or not?) (b) pscionics (too powerful? ok) (c) other menaces (beholders, illithid) I think if people add reason behind some discussions, the flame-bate can be reduced, and we might have something meaningful out of this... So, let's get rid of (myself included) "Drow are stupid" and change to "Drow will not fit because this would disrupt the natural consistency amongst the Elven...that exist already..." I will open discussions or organize our debates more clearly. Let's discuss this. If we don't it'll creep up again, and again, and again, and devolve to a flame-bait, again, again, again... I hope what I say is reasonable. I am attempting to be constructive... - Joaquin Menchaca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:49:39 -0700 From: macnerd Subject: Why Drow don't fit in Mystara? Hello all. Let's open some non-flame-bate about why Drow would fit or not fit into Mystara. Let's avoid the "Drow are stupid" comments and get something useful out of this track. What do you say!?!?! I will open up with my opinion, and people can add theirs, and so forth... Joaquin: I think that Drow as presented in FR and GH to a lesser extent, would not fit into the Mystara campaign. My reasoning is that, one Lloth does not have a presence as a major Immortal in Mystara, and two I would prefer to have a unique Drow (Dark Elf) race in Mystara rather than copying material. Mystara has mostly unique material, and as such I would like to have something more original. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:59:46 -0700 From: macnerd Subject: Placing Drow in Mystara... Hello all... This can be a discussion for those that wish to add Drow (FH and GH) into Mystara. This should be for people that agree that Drow can exists in Mystara, or for those willing to participate in this train of thought. For those that don't agree that Drow should exist in Mystara, see the other thread, and respond to that thread. If people start flame-bates like "Drow suck...", then just ignore it as the focus of this is about placing Drow into Mystara... I'm not wholly for putting Drow (as described in FR or GH) into Mystara, but I do have some ideas if it were to happen. Joaquin: I was actually toying with the idea of running TOEE and later switching over to GDQ series. There's mention of worshippers of Lloth in TOEE in the village of Hommlet (which I made Verge in Karameikos) in my campaign. I placed spies of Lloth around the world in the like manner as the major villain, priest of Lloth, was used in the Moat House adventure (T1 Village of Hommlet). I thought of putting the GDQ in Soderfjord Jarldoms, as there are a presence of giants there, or in the continent of Alphatia before the WotI boxed set. Joaquin: Another idea is to make Drow spelljamming or planescape travelers. Many oppose integrating Drow as an official race of Mystara, so perhaps the GM can create a supplement where the PC run into either PlaneScape or SpellJamming Drow. There's already some semi-spelljamming in Mystara already with skyships of Alphatia or Vanya (Hattia). There was some mention of Illithid in Dragon article and Glantri. How about making Drow and Illithid enemies and some planar/space-faring Drow come to wage and interplaner/sphere war against those menacing Illithid. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:09:56 -0700 From: macnerd Subject: Creating a Unique Dark Elf for Mystara? Hello all, Some may oppose Drow as presented in FR or GH. Some may not. Either way, there are many that may be open to a unique Dark Elf race that is original to Mystara. There may be some large disagreements, but let's identify where we agree, and collaborate on those ideas. There will be most certainly areas where will disagree wholeheartedly. We can try to discuss those areas, and go from there. Perhaps we can convince the other to see the light. Perhaps we cannot. In the latter case, we can agree to disagree. This can add a lot of good material to Mystara, so let's bring on the debate. I'll open with some ideas. Joaquin: I mentioned before about the scientific amoral race of Dark Elves that do experiments on captured small towns to find out the secrets about humans and other races. They can co-exists in Mystara as invisible or other roles. No one knows of their existence. They have limited powers of the mind, and as such are not omnipotent. They have the ability to trigger magical doorways into their world, and also become invisible. They do have mind affecting powers, which are combined and enhanced with magic. Though they are again not all powerful. In their underworld, other creatures exist. No one though in the surface world knows of this underworld society. They just simply cannot see it. A good source for powers of the mind would be Psionic Handbook 3e, which I think is very balancing in the scope of D&D3e. On a side thought, I like idea mentioned where the dark elves, upon being corrupted changed their skin to dark. I thought this was a very cool idea. I wonder if I can use aspects of this for the history of the Dark Elves. Though I would want to place the time event for this in the distant past, and not in the near past or future. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:29:19 -0700 From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Placing Drow in Mystara... IMC it works this way. The Drow ARE NOT native to Mystara. They are from a = couple of different realms. Some hold Lloth as a god, others do not. The = reason is, SOME, are from FR, while others are from what was mentioned in = one of the DRAGON Magazines which featured Drow. In it, it was mentioned, = of Another world, where the males rule, not the females. Needless to say = when the others arrived, an agreement had to be made to put their = differences aside. The Black Rose was the one who organized the little = enclave, and as more arrived were situated in other major cities. Most = Mystarans are under the illusion they are from far to the south. The Drow = do nothing to deny this train of thought. In the meantime they have = infiltrated Theives guilds, assassins guilds and other evil cultic groups. = What is their purpose? No one knows, is it to get back home? rule Mystara? = destroy the civilized realms? All one can say for sure is that they are = quiet and prefer the evenings.=20 As one commoner put it, "Like rats out of the cellar." The Drow arrived via magical portals, and it actually was quite by = accident. But now they are here, to do what, no one knows. At least, none = living... JK Wolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:33:52 -0700 From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Adventures As to adventures in Generic form here are two sites: http://www.rpgarchive.com/index.php?page=3Dadv&title=3DNew&sort=3DDate and the other is: http://www.ddream.com/#sketches enjoy! JK Wolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:21:14 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Re: 2E vs. 3E I have dozens of 2E items and I have been playing with these rules on and off for about 5 years now, and I have bought and borrowed the basic 3E rulebooks and read them with interest. I think I have a good grasp on the strengths and weakness of both systems to make a reasonable comparison between them. 3E is overall a very good product in my opinion compared to 2E. My take on the D&D 2E vs. 3E rules as a GM is one of time and money. 1-Time : I don't have the time to learn a new set of rules, convert my existing game to the new rules set, AND teach 5 players the new rules. Between work, university, and my hobbies (which include a weekly 3 hour D&D game), I just don't have the time or inclination to read/teach and start a 3E game. I already have a good grasp of the 2E rules, have taught it to my players, and have a whole Mystara campaign designed around this rule set. I see no need to change rules now. 2-Money: I have too much money invested in 2E items to just stop using the 2E game rules, and I don't have the budget for buying 3E books now. Having the books lended to me is not an option I like, and starting a new 3E library is not something I see happening in the near future. However, I will keep my option open, so potential I might in the future start a Dragon Lance or Mystara 3E game if enough material is available online or in printed form to justify the time, money and effort I would need to spend to start a 3E campaign. In the meantime, I will continue to happily use 2E in my Mystara campaign. :) George ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:21:19 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Re: A cool gaming session -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Ville V Lahde Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 5:49 AM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: [MYSTARA] A cool gaming session Ville, Thank you for posting that adventure log here, I found it most interesting. I found the deaths of the mayor villains by unscrupulous PCs poetic justice. As a GM note, I think its better of if Stephan DOESN'T find out what happened (have one of the Immortals friendly to the PCs cast some kind of magic so that mortal magic cant be used to determined what happened). I recommend you suggest to the PCs that they drop rumors along the lines of "something evil in the woods are attacking travelers and they are never heard from again". That should keep nosy people busy for a while. :) You also proved a point well known to GMs every where : Never think you have things all planned out and that the PCs will not surprise you. They will do their best to do the one thing you don't want them to do, don't expect them to do, or have no idea how to respond to. :) George ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:43:55 -0700 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Dark Elves *do* exisit in Mystara, I have proof. Just before we start I would like to say personally I know nothing of Drow and do not plan to use them in Mystara and that dark for these elves is evil (although it may also be related to skin color). My proof, well having recently obtained Gaz7 PC1 PC2 and CoM I have had a fair bit of reading so I have only really glanced at the stuff towards the end of Gaz7 so far but I came across these facts. There are at least nine dark elves stated to exist in Gaz7 and that their souls still do. They are nine dark elf sages souls traped inside a ring made by the molder dwarves. They were trapped inside the ring by a life binding ritual taught to them by the dark elves. It is the kind of disregard for the lives of others that they can be sacrificed to make powerful objects as gifts even that earned the moulder (can't spell their proper name so I'm using the nick name) dwarves and the dark elves their bad reputation. For those of you without Gaz7, before you start thinking that ring would be something that sounds worth seeking, it was made for a giant and so is three feet across and solid gold so it is quite difficult to use. Its curent location is in king Hord dark eyes tresury and no-one has any idea what it does besides from it being magical. It allows you to consult with any of the nine dark elf sages tpapped inside each with a different feild of expertese, mostly dark magics. To activate it though you must know the name of the dark elf you wish to summon and the only ones that know that are the giant, his wife, and the makers. It is crafted to look like a dark elf bent backwards clutching his feet with his hands. It is called the ring of the nine Svartalven, so I figure that is what the dark elves know themselves as. As far as the dwarves being cast out of rockhome, I assume not, but it is possible that they incured the wrath of someone for dealing with the dark elves and it is said that some still worship dark powers. They are known to work for the immortals from time to time and to craft fantastic items for them and this includes dealings with entropic immortals. I do not think that they are a moral society, but they value craftmanship. I do not know if there are any dark elves left but this at least should set to rest weather they exist canonicaly in Mystara or not. Of course what you do IYC is up to you :) Now as far as where they are now... I think there would only be a few left. Perhaps most died in the destruction of Nithia as part of the corupting influence, or perhaps they were banished to another plane, maybe they even live amongst other elves, secretly stiring trouble or maybe they are known in wendar, being in the north before the great migrations of the elves. It may even be that the Elves of wendar were the ones that realised their evil and destroied them. Maybe they were originally from wendar, as we actually do not have any major source on them. It is possible that some of those who turned away from technology delved too far into magic and were corupted, turning evil, and this is one of the reasons that elves restrict themselves in their magic. Maybe they know that they could become more powerful but refuse to let themselves because they would be corupted. This is not true perhaps for the shadow elves as they have been corupted from what they once were and no longer have the same magical abilities that they once had. Some ideas anyway. Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:42:56 -0700 From: macnerd Subject: Re: The Drow vs. Shadow Elves Debate > > Let me ask one other question. Do, you associate dark with > > a bad disposition and light with a good disposition? > > I didn't want to continue this thread, and I'll stop here by > answering your questions and let it rest at that. I disagree > with a lot of things, but I can feel that nothing > constructive will come out of my participation and I probably > shouldn't have said anything to begin with, knowing that it's > a volatile subject. > > Yes, I associate the word dark with "bad" and evil (and light > with good). But dark isn't actually a word I'd use for > describing skin color, and I don't think that "dark"-skinned > people are necessarily any worse than people with other skin colors. I understand. In a lot of western cultures, dark is associated with evil and light is associated with good. This concept is not shared by other cultures. If you notice how I presented my later question (carefully), I did not mention skin. If the Norse thought in a similar manner, light = good, dark = evil, then perhaps they imagined these mythological creatures as dark and light, not only for their disposition, but also for their physical trait. Similarly, the Hollywood Cowboys, had the black hats and the white hats to depict a similar connotation. It was a conceptionual belief manifested in a outwordly physical trait. I never intended, nor alluded toward dark/light in relation to modern sociological problems in American society in reference to skin color. > > I was only curious to poke at your reasoning. Nothing more. > > However, you stated that "I think making such an accusation". > > Did I really make any accusation? I feel that I just posed > > a question. Nothing more. > > It seemed like an accusation to me, but if it wasn't, then no > offense is taken. Nope. In the English language, I would have to phrase this in the form of a statement, "you are this" and so forth. In any reagards, peace is made... (I hope :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:44:31 -0700 From: macnerd Subject: Re: Dark Elves vs. Drow Wow. That is very scary. A person with mental powers combined with the power of attorney. This is definately a menace to unleash upon the world. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On > Behalf Of SteelAngel > Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 10:34 AM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Dark Elves vs. Drow > > > On Mon, 15 Apr 2002, macnerd wrote: > > > BTW, who is Yuri Gellar? > > A pseudo-psychic/mentalist, most noted for bending spoons and > suing people > who criticise or mock his 'powers'. > > > Ethan > > -- > Kinard 210 Linux Guru > Webmaster www.steelangel.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:53:15 -0700 From: macnerd Subject: Re: Basic for beginners (was 2E vs 3E) I never heard about it at all. I'll try to find it. In the mean time, anyone interested in creating such a Mystara-Beginner-3e guide. The generic newbie guide sounds good, but we were talking about something specific to 3e. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On > Behalf Of Dan Eustace > Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 7:24 PM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Basic for beginners (was 2E vs 3E) > > > No, its not a conversion. I was referring to the Beginner's > Guide (Newbie > Guide) under development, which isn't specific to any gaming > system, AFAIK. > You're on the Yahoo Group members list, so you probably know > more about it > that I do. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Harvey" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 8:40 PM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Basic for beginners (was 2E vs 3E) > > > > By whom? Is it a d20 "converson" of BD&D, or what? > > We want details! ;-) > > > > Mike > > > > ---- Original Message ---- > > From: deustace@ATTBI.COM > > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM, > > Subject: Re: Basic for beginners (was 2E vs 3E) > > Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:13:22 -0400 > > > > >This project is already underway. > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "macnerd" > > >To: > > >Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 1:09 PM > > >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Basic for beginners (was 2E vs 3E) > > > > > > > > >> I was curious. Originally, wasn't there some > > >> basic or intro into D&D3e. How about we create a > > >> basic simplified guide for Mystara?!? We can > > >> make this a netbook. Perhaps it can have a > > >> subset of the rules, weapons, etc. for the > > >> initial levels. > > >> > > >> Does this sound like a good idea? > > >> > > >> > > > >******************************************************************** > > >> The Other Worlds Homepage: > > >http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > >> The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > >> To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > >> with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >******************************************************************** > > >The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > > > > -- > > Mike Harvey -- Beaverton, OR > > http://members.dsl-only.net/~bing/ > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:33:03 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Re: Week without Magic & Day of Dread -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of The Stalker Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 5:22 PM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Week without Magic & Day of Dread > These events are connected to the end of the "Wrath of the Immortals" <(WOTI) adventure/campaign. > The Week without Magic took place in Fall/Winter of the year AC 1009 due to > a drain on magic on Mystara. > Magic was replenished eventually, though only partially, so every year > after that, Mystara suffers another "draining effect" in the form of a day > when no magic works. This day is the last day of the year (on the Thyatian > calendar), Klarmont 28. Thanks for the info, Is there anything like the Dead of Dread in the Old World(regional or local) before the WOTI takes place? George ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:33:05 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: AMP Weapons (long) -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Jordi Castille Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 4:58 PM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Week without Magic & Day of Dread > I call it the one significant event I mystara's history that would start the Technology Revolution, in fact the Day of Dread >which is another day without magic that takes place at the end of the year, would be one of the few reason, why i would > think the wheels of progress are starting to move a little more faster than before now a days than in the Pre-WOTI era of > mystara, where technology might have been stagnant at the time. What about wide spread use of AMP (Anti-Magical Pulse) weapons designed by races that don't have a high concentration of magic users or have hostile heavy magic using neighbors? I was contemplating for my AD&D 2E Mystara 1,000 AC campaign that the Krazadorian (aka Rockhome) dwarves developed AMP weapons for use against heavy magic using nations like Glantri and Alphatia in case of a full scale war against such nations. Since the dwarves would be at a disadvantage magic wise against them, they developed weapons that can neutralize or diminish those nations spell casters effectiveness. They don't have many Wizards in their ranks, but they do have quite a lot of Priests available for creating AMP Weapons (both classes can cast Dispel Magic). Not just for their own use but also for sale,at a healthy profit, to other nations that can make use of them, and which cant make AMP weapons of their own. These AMPs are basically one shot dispel magic spells in a stasis (or conditional release form) that are enclosed in thin lead shell that opens on contact with a hard surface or at a predetermined height. When it opens it releases the dispel magic effect (in a 30' or more radius). Instead of causing an electro-magnetic pulse effect (EMP) like nuclear weapons, or an explosive blast like is caused by gunpowder, it causes an temporary anti-magic field in the effected area. (As per the Dispel Magic spell effect, 2E PHB). -Rockhome is not overflowing with wizards, so any high level wizards contracted by the dwarves for producing AMP Weapons are :A)Rare, B)Heavly Employed, and C)Comanding astronomical fees. -Rockhome does have a lot of priests, and they are more then happy to help make AMPs weapons for use by their military, this has the effect of making AMPs Weapons commonly available for dwarven forces, and relatively economical to make. For Anti-Magic spells used in the construction of AMPs weapons I can see a whole range of Dispel Magic spells being researched and used by Arcane and Divine spell casters: 1-Dispel Magic (DM; 3rd level spell) 2-Improved Dispel Magic (IDM; 5th level spell; AOE and Range increases by 10' per casters level) 3-Advanced Dispel Magic (ADM; 7th level spell; AOE and Range increases by 20' per casters level) 4-Greater Dispel Magic (GDM; 9th level arcane spell;AOE and Range increases by 30' per casters level) I can also see a similar weapon that uses the Wild Magic effect to cause chaos and confusion among enemy spell casters. I propose 4 levels of AMPs weapons; each class is less common are more expensive then the previous class: Class Type/ spell used/ W=Wizard or P=Priest min level needed to cast spell -Class One (DM ; 5W/5P) -Class Two (IDM ; 9W/9P) -Class Three (ADM ; 14W/14P) -Class Four (GDM ; 18W) These AMP weapons can be made in various forms into two basic categories : Direct and Indirect contact weapons. Direct fire weapons could include : Weapons, Rings, Staffs, and Wands with a direct LOS to their target. Indirect fire weapons could include : "Dumb" and "smart" bombs, Mortars, and Grenades with an indirect LOS to their target. Some practically nasty dwarven AMPs can include the equivalents of : 1-AMP Rifles (think of a wand with DM or IDM spells used by specialist mage hunter battlefield units) 2-AMP Sniper rifles (think of a wand in a the hands of a special forces soldier with a Detect Magic/increased visual range magnification scope that shoots a ADM or GDM spell with increased range ; usable against high profile enemy spell casters or magical weapons) 3-AMP Anti-Air Rifles (think of a dual or quad turret mounted heavy weapon version of AMP rifle used to defend mayor cities/military targets against magical airships or creatures) 4-AMP bombs (great for sabotage against magical communication, transportation, industry, public/private buildings and research facilities) I imagine that if AMP weapons exists, it wont be to long before someone finds a way to counter them (like "hardening" modern electronics to resists EMP weapons) but I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't cheap. Perhaps spell casters counter the use of AMP weapons by creating spells that render any non-magical complex mechanical device inoperable? Or create spells that counter their effects (like widespread use of Anti-Missile spells to stop bullets)? The fact that these dwarves use AMP Weapons can have, I think, a significant effect on the way nations wage war and the extent to which magic can dominate the battlefield or be used in society. As AMP weapons are useless against non-magical items, they can also lead to an increase in non-magical technologies being developed (since there are immune to AMP effects). All of the above is just something that came to mind today, so feel free to criticize/comment on what I wrote. :) George ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 01:34:03 +0200 From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Week without Magic & Day of Dread Giorgio wrote: > Is there anything like the Dead of Dread in the Old World(regional or = local) > before the WOTI takes place? There could be, if enough Rad force was drained using the Radiance = (which is the real reason for the failure of magic). GAZ3 states that as = of AC1000 50 Rad force has been drained. At 100 there will be an annual = Day of Dread, at 500 a Week Without Magic and so on, until magic starts = becoming scarce and eventually magic will be virtually non-existant. Rad force is drained according to the number of spellcasters using the = special spells granted by the Nucleus of the Spheres (the artifact below = Glantri that is actually the modified engines of the crashed starship, = the FSS Beagle). Since a maximum of 6 Rad force is drained per year, it = shouldn't reach 100 for a good while (the events during the Wrath of the = Immortals drained a lot of Rad force at once though), but if you want it = to start at a higher level, you have a Day of Dread established before = WotI. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 01:34:09 +0200 From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Glantri box Stone Marshall wrote: > It was in # 185....September 1992....ah the good ol' days ;) Thanks! I should have known it was one of the last ones; those are the = ones I don't really remember too clearly, since I was in between Mystara = campaigns at that time. I still dutifully collected them though. :) Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 02:05:21 +0200 From: =?US-ASCII?Q?Andres_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: AMP Weapons (long) The idea seem interesting, if you're using 3e, there wouldn't even be a need of new Dispel Magic spells, you just use metamagic feats to get extended range, area of effect and so on. But there's a big caveat that all Rockhome military engineers should take into account: magic items (unless Artifact-level ones) ARE affected by dispel magic, so I see a big danger of AMP weapons affecting each other!!! if they were deployed in something like a battery, either at the hands of an army unit on the field or at some kind of defensive position in a fortress or similar, there would be a good chance of weapons affecting each other (something which could create interesting "resonances", if 2 weapons are triggered at the same time and would dispel each other... these magic-physics new horizons are bound to awaken DM's -wicked- imagination) unless deployment of weapons takes into account ranges and areas very carefully. Probably that does not have an impact on long-distance artillery-like use (like bombing a mage unit from afar in order to dispel their protection spells, summoned creatures, minor magic items and so on), but in near missile or melee range, weapons would surely start affecting each other, either squarely (a couple weapons are "fired" and they rend all other weapons in AoE non-functional) or in the mean way, being fired at the same time, dispelling a dispelling which is dispelling a dispelling... could either vanish harmlessly or, as said before, give way to magical paradox (and maybe a vortex, wild magic, or dead magic). One possible engineering solution would be to research a new dispel magic which has no area of effect, but that is a ray spell (a ray /3e ranged touch attack). Of course, then a touch attack would be needed at quite a bit of the spell's power would be lost in facing powerful area spells (the weapon could not uncover a whole mage unit which has become invisible, well, it could, but you'd need like some score shots, and, till the dispel takes effect, the targets are invisible, so all penalties apply to the touch attack). "Ray Dispel" would be something like 2nd level (less powerful, as it cannot affect areas, but only a single mage and the apparel he carries). That sort of weapon would be good for hand to hand combat or skirmish-like frays (if you get to melee with a Glantrian mage, either he's a fake or you're damn lucky). A defensive possibility would be to research a Dispel Magic with a duration longer than instantaneous, it would create an sphere where spells fizzle out for the indicated time. That spell should be quite high-level (it's a minor Anti-magic shell, as magic can roll to resist it, but it covers an area)and could not be manufactured in meaningful amounts. Probably it could protect big sections of an army (division level) and key points of cities and strongholds. And, big problem: any high-level magic-users in your enemy's ranks could cast a Dispel Magic at your expensive AMP weapons. You'd better enhance your items a lot for them to be meaningful in the battle. The idea is interesting (i had quite a lot of fun writing this), but the big problem i see is getting enough high-level casters around to make a nice amount of those weapons (low-level ones would be easily resisted or dispelled themselves)... there are quite a few Dwarven priests, but their putting up an organized chain-production of experimental weapons could be a bit too much to ask from RH society... Andres ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 02:18:10 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Week without Magic & Day of Dread Giorgio wrote: > Is there anything like the Dead of Dread in the Old World(regional or local) > before the WOTI takes place? Besides the Rad-count thing, there's quite a puzzling piece of info in GAZ3's calendar: p.52 (Main calendar key, after a sign resembling a cluster of dots): "Stellar cataclysm: Unusual celestial activities cause the sky to change color for one day, or glow eerily for one night, causing fear and disorder among the population (3% chance). All magic is totally ineffective during that day". And, at p.55, such a cluster sign appears on Kaldmont 28th, Bells of Fate... That's quite funny, as GAZ3 is pre-War Glantri. I'm puzzled, as the calendar shows a few astronomical events (like this one) on fixed dates... I guess (it's only a guess) that this heavenly data is some kind of example for a 1000 AC calendar for DMs to start a campaign (if those stellar events are fixed, Mystara's heavenly bodies are Lawful as no other multiverse), but, as per "Bells of Fate" description, it seems that weird skies are recurring on Kald. 28th. This event would not be linked to Rad count, as the description seems to connnect it with astronomical happenings, but maybe that "non-magic predisposition" of the date caused the Day of Dread to take place on that date and no other after the cataclysmic events of WotI (the initial Week(s) without Magic have no officially set date, as they hang on individual campaign development in WotI sourcebook). That's mysterious, though... is Bruce still around to tell us what idea he had when writing the GAZ3 calendar? Andrés ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:28:26 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Re: George's Current Mystara Campaign -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Jordi Castille Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 11:14 PM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] George's Current Mystara Campaign > You're doing Darokin, and you didn't conuslt me? I am shocked Let me make some imput. I didn't get that. Is that in reference to what I wrote or to what someone else wrote? George ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:28:25 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Air Travel -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of George Hrabovsky Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 10:11 PM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor Errata > The Retebius Air Corp and the Knights of the Air are units from Thyatis that > are flying beast riders, some even ride dragons! I know Glantrian wizards makes use of flying carpets , flying spells and the like, but that is on an individual basis I think. Besides Alphatia airships and the Thyatian units mentioned above, what other Old World nation in 1,000 AC uses airships (magical or conventional), flying creatures or hot air balloons in a significant way (in war, commerce, transportation, exploration, leisure...)? George ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:28:27 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Re: Ignorance, poverty, isolation and the Renaissance (long) -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Just Another Grue Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 1:50 PM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Ignorance, poverty, isolation and the Renaissance (long) > Exactly the sort of reasoning I was looking for when I asked. > So, would it be to the general benefit of Immortals of Entropy who wish > to prolong suffering to keep some technologies from proliferating and > encourage the use but not the understanding of others? That is something I am developing for my campaign. The overall there is one of order vs. chaos, and the Immortals are only able to influence things by means of their followers, never can they act directly on the world. > I.E. Printing press bad. Heavy crossbows good. Smoke powder guns good. Actually, I can see the Immortals of Entropy promoting the use of the printing press. Why, what better way to cause chaos among nations then to promote to the masses/slaves/peons such crazy concepts as freedom, democracy and liberty? Why to think of all the conflicts, battles, blood shed that might occur as those people try to better their station in life and have their masters due their best drive them even more into the ground. Oh, the horrors! To have the poor think that they deserve better in life and actually take up arms against their masters! > And would > certain preservationist-minded Immortals shape society through clerics > to avoid certain technologies all together? Certainly the Elven > Immortals have done this. Could be. You can have a wide range of relationships between arcane magic, divine magic and technology in a society and among the Immortals. Makes for great opportunities for the GM to be creative. Perhaps the Immortal of Merchants is eager to promote more efficient industrial technology (to increase production) while an Immortal of Nature tries to discourage the same. What if the Immortal patron of Dwarves has his clerics develop divine magic and technology to counter the magical powers of the dwarves enemies? What if an Immortal patron of Magic promotes magic as a branch of science and encourages his wizards to learn more about the natural and magical world they live in? So many possibilities..... > What sort of popular mythologies and faerie > tales exist on Mystara that would remind us of the Tower of Babel? The > greek guy with the wax wings? The Fall of Atlantis? The Fall of Adam & > Eve (for too much knowledge). And other follies of technological prowess > coupled with egotism? Not enough to counter the great amount of tales that relate wizards calling on powers to great for them to handle, wizards that devastate whole countryside's by indiscriminate and irresponsible use of magic, wizards that destroyed or enslaved lives, societies or nations because of their magical powers or even more horrible things! You can never trust a wizard, the old folks tell you, they are responsible to no one but themselves. At least those choir-boys are responsible to their gods and must walk the straight and narrow, but with those wizards...you can never tell when they are waiting for you to turn you back so they can rob you blind, enslave your will or turn you into a frog! Wizards (spit), we have no use for their kind here. (G) > IMC I play that Blackmoor is generally considered to be totally > fictitious by the general populace. Most scholars think there is some > connection to fact but think most stories are fanciful. So children grow > up learning of the hubris of humanity through the myths of the fall of > Blackmoor. Blackmoor in my campaign is used the same way. Its like the story of Atlantis in our myths and legends. BM is just a legend the old folks tell the young ones to keep them entertained at night. Nobody actually believes it ever existed. George ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:28:29 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Re: Magic Points -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Dan Eustace Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 8:46 PM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Magic Points > See the Alfheim GAZ for further info, or the map in the RC for actual > locations of the points. Thank you for the info on good and bad magic points in Alfheim. Most useful. :) George ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:28:30 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Re: Need some ideas -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Ville V Lahde Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 3:04 AM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: [MYSTARA] Need some ideas > His idea is that he would get rid of the power-hungry Bargle, and lure > Stephan's forces into battles with the Nomads, opening a chance for his > own forces to act. Heh. Reading this after you posted what happened to the Baron and his wizard is most amusing. I guess it never crossed the old Barons mind that he and his pet wizard would die a quick, violent and unexpected death at the hands of some unscrupulous PCs on his way to double crossing his liege, eh? :) George ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:28:32 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Re: Old World Nations Foreign Policy in 1,000 AC -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Agathokles Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 11:44 AM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Old World Nations Foreign Policy in 1,000 AC > Ethengar: on bad terms with almost everyone but Rockhome, but always > raiding Glantrian border. Why are they on good terms with Rockhome, and what kind of military does Ethengar have? > Heldann Freeholds: free, its neutral and basically non-concerned with > foreign politics; under the Heldannic Knights rule, it is agressive, and > opposed to Alphatia, Norwold and Ethengar, while relatively friendly > with Vestland. What official or fan material covers the Freehold in detail? George ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:28:36 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Psionics in George's Campaign -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Giampaolo Agosta Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 2:47 AM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Psionics > Anyway, this obviously doesn't mean you should restrict yourself to any > of these hypothesis. I, for one, would be interested in reading about > psionics in Mystara campaigns. Here is what I have: IMC psionics is assumed to have always existed, but it has never been recognized, widespread or been promoted on a formal basis. I assume as a default that any race can have psionic members, but these are rare, self taught, and unique. These people with the psionic "gift" are usually regarded as strange, freaks, ignored, persecuted or treated as magic users. Psionic users in the general population are found as: -N/A Non-existent ; no one knows about the existence of Psionics. -Low: Only a few people can develop psionic abilities ; Psionics is generally unknown to exists. -Moderate: everyone is capable of developing a latent talent or psionic skills if trained properly; most people know that psionics exists, but mainly think of it as just another form of magic. -High: everyone is psionicaly gifted ; psionics is well known. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- In the old world, here is how I have psionics recognized by nation, this is just a first draft. Nations of which I have the GA I indicate with a *. Any suggestions/comments please mention them. Old World 1,000 AC GAZ 1-The Grand Duchy of Karameikos* -Low ; Thinking of having Karameikos be the first human nation to recognize the existence of psionics and of founding a psionics school GAZ 2-The Emirates of Ylaruam* -Low GAZ 3-The Principalities of Glantri -Low ; I think psions would be persecuted just like clerics are . GAZ 4-The Kingdom of Ierendi* -Low GAZ 5-The Elves of Alfheim -Low ; The Alfheim elves have a small group of Elven Monks (Psionic Priests), they are highly skilled, and are great scholars. They tend to travel around (while keeping their psionic power secrets) to gain new insights about the world and its cultures, and they are known thought out the Old World as great sages. GAZ 6-The Dwarves of Rockhome * -Moderate ; They are the first race to develop psionics on a societal basis. They "discovered" psionics after the Inhuman war of 800 AC, and spent the last 200 years developing their abilities. Psionics have greatly been developed in their nation and have lead to many changes in their lives. They also field special psionic units on the battlefield, and have the best center for psionic learning in the Old World. GAZ 7-The Northern Reaches, Kingdom of Ostland -Low GAZ 7-The Northern Reaches, Kingdom of Vestland -Low GAZ 7-The Northern Reaches, Kingdom of Sojerfjord -Low GAZ 8-The Five Shires -Low GAZ 9-The Minrothad Guilds -Low GAZ 10-The Orcs of Thar* -N/A ; The constant war and chaos doesn't allow for psionics to develop or grow in this environment. Or, if they do, they quickly rise to the top of the food chain sort to speak. GAZ 11-The Republic of Darokin -Low GAZ 12-The Ethengar Khanate -Low GAZ 13-The Shadow Elves* (Aengmor - Dyrmark Forest, Karameikos)) -Low ; Unknown to the SEs, many (33%) children born on the surface world in Aengmor after 980 AC will develop psionic powers in their youths. This is a sign of blessing of Rafiel for his followers as a reward for their faith in him over the years, and they will be awarded the same status that the Shamans have. GAZ 14-The Atruaghin Clans -Low GAZ 15-Dawn of the Emperors, The Empire of Thyatis* -Low ; Considering that any human child born in Thyatis lands are taken into the capital and trained by the state into a secret police force (think the Psi-Corps of B5). These psions are used to control the population, spy on rivals and threats to the throne, and make life miserable for the Alphatia (since they don't use magic, all their magic detection capabilities are useless against them). GAZ 15-Dawn of the Emperors, The Empire of Alphatia* -Low ; Am thinking that psions are treated the same way as non spell casting people in Alphatia society ; as less then nothing. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:46:27 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Re: Week without Magic & Day of Dread -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Jacob Skytte Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 6:34 PM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Week without Magic & Day of Dread > There could be, if enough Rad force was drained using the Radiance (which is the real reason for the failure of magic). GAZ3 >states that as of AC1000 50 Rad force has been drained. At 100 there will be an annual Day of Dread, at 500 a Week Without > Magic and so on, until magic starts becoming scarce and eventually magic will be virtually non-existant. > Rad force is drained according to the number of spellcasters using the special spells granted by the Nucleus of the Spheres > (the artifact below Glantri that is actually the modified engines of the crashed starship, the FSS Beagle). Since a maximum > of 6 Rad force is drained per year, it shouldn't reach 100 for a good while (the events during the Wrath of the Immortals > drained a lot of Rad force at once though), but if you want it to start at a higher level, you have a Day of Dread > established before WotI. What kind of event can cause a magical drain large enough to cause a DOD? I am tentatively thinking that in the future (1,001 AC), when the whole of the Old World is in war, that some event between Alphatia and Thyatis will cause a massive drain of the radiance and cause a DOD. Perhaps the Alphatia research a "nuclear fireball" spell like that of an atomic bomb which requires the sacrifice of hundreds of lives and this causes a magical reaction capable of draining the Radiance? (see Harry Turtle Doves "Darkness" series for an example of magical power out of control) George ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:31:59 +1000 From: Alfred O'Meagher Subject: Re: Air Travel Does anyone read MERIDIAN from CrossGen comics? If not, give it a go -- it's very KnownWorld-ish, albeit set in a world of sky islands, sky ships and so on. Beautiful artwork too. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:14:25 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Elven battle losses & Second Inhuman War -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Ville V Lahde Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 10:18 AM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Elven battle losses > Around 501-504 AC was the Elfwar between "Darokin" and Alfheim, > but the elven histories don't usually even mention it. By their > standards it was just "a game". What kind of casualties where suffered by both sides? > Still, one must remember that a lot of elves see combat during guard > duty by the bad magic points, adventuring and in the fringes of the > forest. I think they and the militaristic Red Arrow Clan make up the bulk > of the approximately 5000 strong (wartime only!) army. Are they trained for large scale or small unit combat? From what I remember reading elsewhere, they are trained for small unit combat. But then again, they DO have long memories and lives, so anyone still around from the Inhuman War of 800 can use those hard won battle experience in a future war. > (Coincidentally enough, your Inhuman Wars seemed to take place right about > the time of the Orcwars, even though they really sounded a lot tougher > than the Orcwars pictured in the tongue-in-the-cheek game in the Orcs of > Thar Gazetteer.) Aye, the Inhuman War (800-810AC) replaces the "historical" Orcwars of the GAZ series and is the main point for my "divergent timeline" of Old World history. After this war, many things changed (for example the dwarves never reached Glantri or where selected out as the carriers of the plague). I have this war and its aftermaths similar to the Great War of our own WW1. The amount of deaths on all sides was just staggering. This war wasn't fought by the tongue-in-the-cheek orcs of GAZ 10. This was a brutal war fought by savage inhuman orcs, treacherous goblins, deadly efficiently hobgoblins, murderous trolls and every other evil humanoid found in the Broken Lands. Their numbers where artificial increased by a magic item created by their Immortal patron Atzanteotl. > The troops ride elven warhorses, use elven > longswords and bows (semi-magical equipment - not actually magic items > but able to hit "by magic weapons only" -targets). How is this effect achieved? In my current campaign, the PCs where awarded 5 grand master level craftsmanship dwarven long swords made of the strongest metal alloy known to the dwarves (mithral/adamantite), quenched in the blood of its creator and blessed by a high priest. The effect is that the weapon has +1/+1 rating (due to is quality) and can hit enemies that require "+1 weapons to hit" , but they are not actually magical weapons per say. > By the way, just to compare you campaign with the "canon" one (which > everyone is of course at liberty to change - like when you included > Warhammer humanoid races), the leader of Broken lands, king Thar, is said > to be able to raise a horde of 20 000 humanoids from the Broken lands and > the surrounding mountain communities. (Mentioned in the Rockhome > Gazetteer) They are however of low quality and training. The last line explains why they lost in the Inhuman War. I have tentative plans that in 950 AC , an intelligent psionic hobgoblin name Drazen's came to power in the Broken Lands, and changed the course of that lands history. Drazen's was a hobgoblin warrior of unnaturally high intelligence, courage, iron will and leadership ability. He rose quickly threw the ranks of his tribe (somewhere inside Thyatian territory) and was responsible for 5 years of bloody raids and attacks on Thyatian cities. His fame was such that the Emperor himself ordered his horde destroyed and Drazen's captured. When he was capture, he was taken to Thyatis and there was sentenced to death into coliseum. Fortunately for Drazen's, his skill in combat was such that no one short of the Coliseums champion could defeat him. The Emperor was so impress by this unusual hobgoblin that he offered to spare his life in return for his loyalty and 10 year of service in the Thyatian army. This Drazen's pledged and spent the next 10 years fighting for the Empire under every battlefield condition possible. He forged an elite unit of battle hardened veterans (Drazen's Horde) that was responsible for some of the most important Thyatian victories against the Alphatia during this time. His success against the Alphatians where such that he survived over 5 assassinations attempts by them before his term of service ended. He left the empire, but found that he was so used to war that he couldn't find any other meaning or purpose in life. He made his way to the Broken Lands where he set about to make a nation of humanoids destined to conquer the world. He arrived in the Broken Lands in the winter of 950 and spend the next 30 years (he had access to potions of longativity) in a war of bloody conquest. By the time he was finished, he had undisputed control of the Broken Lands. He spent the next 20 years transforming his land into a powerful nation state. The Broken Lands was now a land seriously depopulated of inhabitants, rich in mineral resources, and with a leader with a vision. He transformed his warriors into a highly discipline army, invaded the Khanate and occupied vast tracks of farmlands to feed his nation, used selective breeding to increase the quality, quantity and favorable genetic traits of the inhabitants of the Broken Lands, forged a society under the rule of law, developed the nations technology level equal to that of its neighbors, and begin a campaign to weaken his neighbors for future conquest. In the spring of 1,001, Drazen's Army will start a war the likes of which no nation of the Old World had ever seen. George ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:24:34 -0400 From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: The Drow vs. Shadow Elves Debate > > I really don't think this is what he meant. > > In fact, the nuances of light and dark when referring to > > elves imply more > > about their nature than their coloration. The meaning depends on the > > context. The Light Elves were benefactors of the good Norse > > gods, while the > > Dark elves were mischievous, and at odds with them (IIRC). > > In this context, > > the meaning is good elves, and bad elves. > > Are you saying that linguistically in the Scandinavian languages > that good is the same as light and bad is same as dark? Or is > this from cultural reference that light is good, and dark is bad? > > In Norse mythology, were Dark Elves really considered bad? I don't know a thing about any Scandanavian languages, but in English, the words light and dark can be used that way. For example, "The messenger brought dark tidings" means he brought bad news. The words have more meanings than just coloration or amount of light present. I'm no expert on Norse mythology either, but from what I do know, they were not viewed as good. They were pranksters and mischievous at best, but would probably not be classified as diabolically evil. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:13:24 +1000 From: Alfred O'Meagher Subject: Webpage Hi, The webpage for the campaign I play online is updated again... the = address is www.geocities.com/knightsbelow/page1.html. I give this because it is the "World of Mystery" -- not entirely = dissimilar to Mystara if you understand. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 01:16:40 -0400 From: Dan Eustace Subject: Known World Map Hello MML, I've just finished a map of the KW that was submitted for use in the New = Player's Guide. Since most of you aren't new players, I see no reason = why you should wait for the release. Anyone who wants to check it out = or use it on a website, please e-mail me at deustace@attbi.com and I'll send it to you. =20 It can also be downloaded from the "Newbie Guide" Yahoo Group site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mystara_newbie_guide/files/ It's 1.5 MB in jpg format and should print out as one page. Some of the = detail I included (island names, Mt. ranges) might be a bit fuzzy at = that resolution, but it's the best I could do! Splitting it into 2 = pages might do the trick.=20 The map was created using HexMapper. Enjoy! Dan=20 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:54:57 -0700 From: Jordi Castille Subject: Re: Elven battle losses & Second Inhuman War Question: Have you figured the Lifespan of the Hobgoblin in this, I am sure that would Drazen one hell of an old gobliniod. Giorgio wrote: The last line explains why they lost in the Inhuman War. I have tentative plans that in 950 AC , an intelligent psionic hobgoblin name Drazen's came to power in the Broken Lands, and changed the course of that lands history. Drazen's was a hobgoblin warrior of unnaturally high intelligence, courage, iron will and leadership ability. He rose quickly threw the ranks of his tribe (somewhere inside Thyatian territory) and was responsible for 5 years of bloody raids and attacks on Thyatian cities. His fame was such that the Emperor himself ordered his horde destroyed and Drazen's captured. When he was capture, he was taken to Thyatis and there was sentenced to death into coliseum. Fortunately for Drazen's, his skill in combat was such that no one short of the Coliseums champion could defeat him. The Emperor was so impress by this unusual hobgoblin that he offered to spare his life in return for his loyalty and 10 year of service in the Thyatian army. This Drazen's pledged and spent the next 10 years fighting for the Empire under every battlefield condition possible. He forged an elite unit of battle hardened veterans (Drazen's Horde) that was responsible for some of the most important Thyatian victories against the Alphatia during this time. His success against the Alphatians where such that he survived over 5 assassinations attempts by them before his term of service ended. He left the empire, but found that he was so used to war that he couldn't find any other meaning or purpose in life. He made his way to the Broken Lands where he set about to make a nation of humanoids destined to conquer the world. He arrived in the Broken Lands in the winter of 950 and spend the next 30 years (he had access to potions of longativity) in a war of bloody conquest. By the time he was finished, he had undisputed control of the Broken Lands. He spent the next 20 years transforming his land into a powerful nation state. The Broken Lands was now a land seriously depopulated of inhabitants, rich in mineral resources, and with a leader with a vision. He transformed his warriors into a highly discipline army, invaded the Khanate and occupied vast tracks of farmlands to feed his nation, used selective breeding to increase the quality, quantity and favorable genetic traits of the inhabitants of the Broken Lands, forged a society under the rule of law, developed the nations technology level equal to that of its neighbors, and begin a campaign to weaken his neighbors for future conquest. In the spring of 1,001, Drazen's Army will start a war the likes of which no nation of the Old World had ever seen. George ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 15 Apr 2002 to 16 Apr 2002 (#2002-104) ****************************************************************