Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 16 Apr 2002 to 17 Apr 2002 (#2002-105) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 18/04/2002, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 30 messages totalling 1271 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Air Travel (5) 2. A cool gaming session 3. Old World Nations Foreign Policy in 1,000 AC 4. Elven battle losses & Second Inhuman War (2) 5. R/L Help! 6. Light vs. Dark (4) 7. Week without Magic & Day of Dread (7) 8. Flame Wars of the past 9. Endless Armies (2) 10. George's Current Mystara Campaign 11. Why Drow cant fit in Mystara? 12. Deities and Demigods 3e was:Re: [MYSTARA] Why Drow cant fit in Mystara? 13. D&D Related Comics (Was: Re: [MYSTARA] Air Travel) 14. Deities and Demigods 3e (2) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:21:47 +0100 From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Air Travel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Giorgio" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:28 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] Air Travel > Besides Alphatia airships and the Thyatian units mentioned above, what other > Old World nation in 1,000 AC uses airships (magical or conventional), flying > creatures or hot air balloons in a significant way (in war, commerce, > transportation, exploration, leisure...)? > They're not actually Old World but the Warbirds of the Heldannic Knights and the Flying Barge of Sayr Ulan both come to mind as nearby. Then there are the undead crewed airboats in the Warlords of the Air unit of the Legion of Doom loyal to the Master of Hule. Moving into the Hollow World the magical hover vessels of Nithia, of differing types built for both commerce and war, also show up. All are limited to working within Nithia only though. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:35:55 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: Re: A cool gaming session On Tue, 16 Apr 2002, Giorgio wrote: > As a GM note, I think its better of if Stephan DOESN'T find out what > happened (have one of the Immortals friendly to the PCs cast some kind of > magic so that mortal magic cant be used to determined what happened). I agree with the first sentence, and it seems that the PCs aren't willing to confess a murder either (Hendricks was travelling under a diplomatic banner). As to the latter sentence, IMC divination magic is pretty low-grade. There are only a few clerics in Karameikos able to cast a Commune and find out if Hendricks was murdered (remember: yes/no questions only!), and none of them have at present a reason to start a yes/no -question thread to eliminate suspects. As to other forms of magic, like speak with the dead, the PCs eliminated this option by burning the bodies and spreading the ashes (yuk!). I > recommend you suggest to the PCs that they drop rumors along the lines of > "something evil in the woods are attacking travelers and they are never > heard from again". That should keep nosy people busy for a while. :) Funny enough, this was just what the PCs were planning to do! Ville ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:39:26 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Old World Nations Foreign Policy in 1,000 AC Giorgio wrote: > >> Ethengar: on bad terms with almost everyone but Rockhome, but always >> raiding Glantrian border. > > Why are they on good terms with Rockhome, and what kind of military does > Ethengar have? Ethengar are basically neutral towards Rockhome, because they are not interested in conquering their land (nor they would be able to). But due to the common hate for Glantri, mercenary dwarves are usually found as special troops in the Golden Khan's army. The Khan has some 10000 horsemen (most of them are divided into tribal divisions), but no infantry or artillery, which is supplied by the dwarves. > What official or fan material covers the Freehold in detail? On the Freeholds, there is nothing, since in later canon (VotPA and beyond) the Freeholds were assumed to have been conquered by the Heldannic Knights at some point in the past. Bruce Heard later released quite a lot of material on the HK, which you can find in the Vaults of Pandius. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:46:05 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: Re: Elven battle losses & Second Inhuman War On Tue, 16 Apr 2002, Giorgio wrote: > >Around 501-504 AC was the Elfwar between "Darokin" and Alfheim, > >but the elven histories don't usually even mention it. By their > >standards it was just "a game". > > What kind of casualties where suffered by both sides? According to the Darokin Gazetteer, elves suffered 20-30 losses, Darokin about 2000. Or something like this, I don't have the Gaz at hand. Similar notes about Darokinian invasion are made in the Alfheim Gaz, but they are a bit inconsistent with the former - the invasion isn't placed in a exact historical moment (sometime during the extraplanar invasion of Illodius?), and it sounds a bit more serious. > Are they trained for large scale or small unit combat? From what I remember > reading elsewhere, they are trained for small unit combat. But then again, > they DO have long memories and lives, so anyone still around from the > Inhuman War of 800 can use those hard won battle experience in a future war. I guess most of the battles do take place in small-scale engagements, do full mobilisation of the units mentioned in X10 and the Alfheim Gaz must take place very rarely. But still, those 7 times 700+ strong units are mentioned in both products. Of course any DM is free to make the elves less formiddable if she/he likes. > > The troops ride elven warhorses, use elven > >longswords and bows (semi-magical equipment - not actually magic items > >but able to hit "by magic weapons only" -targets). > > How is this effect achieved? This was partly from the Gaz, partly maybe from my own head. X10 and Alfheim Gaz both mention elven armies armed with elven longbows and such. However, according to Alfheim Gaz they are made by using the Trees of Life, so there shouldn't be thousands of them around. So, I decided that the weapons used by the army are of "a lower grade", blessed by druidic and elven magic for example. Ville ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:44:17 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Air Travel Giorgio wrote: > > I know Glantrian wizards makes use of flying carpets , flying spells and the > like, but that is on an individual basis I think. Count Emeth Urbaal of Wylon has developed a prototype zeppelin, and Prince Volospin Aendyr has some sort of aircraft, though I can't remember what exactly right now. The other "major" air power in the Known World would be the Flying City of Serraine. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:35:30 +0200 From: Francesco Subject: Re: R/L Help! I read it ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Roger Girtman=20 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 6:33 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] R/L Help! If anyone is recieving these posts, please let me know... I can't seem = to get the ListServ to turn on the post-mirroring option, So I don't = know if my posts get through or not... Thanks alot, Roger ______________________________=20 "Chivalry doesn't mean that a woman CAN'T open a door for herself, = only that a lady SHOULDN'T HAVE TO."=20 ______________________________=20 ICQ: 77185585=20 http://www.geocities.com/gawain_viii/mystara=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here ******************************************************************** = The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp = The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send = email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of = the message.=20 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:49:27 +0200 From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Light vs. Dark > > Are you saying that linguistically in the Scandinavian languages > > that good is the same as light and bad is same as dark? Or is > > this from cultural reference that light is good, and dark is bad? > > > > In Norse mythology, were Dark Elves really considered bad? This is a patchwork of what I can recall and some of my own reasoning. = In the viking culture and mythology there is emphasis on light vs. dark. = This is not without reason, simply out of the contrast between dark = winters and light summers. During winter there were fewer daylight hours = and it was not possible to grow food, men had to light fires to keep the = dark at bay. Tales were told of things hiding in the dark, just out of = sight, things with no good intentions. During summer even the nights = seemed lighter, there was warmth, good food and cause for celebration. = Naturally light and dark were seen as manifestations of or metaphors for = good and bad. This is exemplified by several cases. The ideal person was blond and = blue-eyed, dark hair was reason for distrust. The Norse gods were almost = all blond, Loki being the notable exception, having dark hair. But then = he wasn't truly of the Aesir or Vanir, the two races of the gods. And as = we all know, Loki isn't the nicest person around. Ravens were considered = a bad omen, this mostly because they are carrion eaters, but being black = birds didn't improve their lot. Niflheim, the realm of Hel, where the = unworthy go when they die, was called the world of fog, a cold and dark = place with Hel's domain lying underground. Valhalla, where Odin and the = gods reside, lies in the sky, reached by the Rainbow Bridge. During the = Ragnarok, where all the Norse gods are killed and disaster in general = falls on the world, the sun is swallowed, leaving the lands in darkness. = Just a few examples of why dark (and the word dark) would typically be = seen as bad. As for elves (and dwarves to some degree), they were not considered pure = evil, but they did have their own agendas and they liked to play pranks = on others. Not just light-hearted, mischievous, harmless pranks intended = to enlighten and teach, but cruel, malicious pranks intended to degrade, = humiliate or outright harm the victims (Loki played a lot of those = pranks too). And of course they lived underground in the darkness. Jacob Skytte scythe@wnadoo.dk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:49:29 +0200 From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Week without Magic & Day of Dread Giorgio wrote: > What kind of event can cause a magical drain large enough to cause a = DOD? Well, turning the Nucleus of the Spheres into a Doomsday Weapon and = firing it at Sundsvall, the Alphatian capitol, seemed to do the trick. = In fact it drained so much Rad force that it caused a Week Without = Magic, but some was restored leading to a Day of Dread instead. > I am tentatively thinking that in the future (1,001 AC), when the = whole of > the Old World is in war, that some event between Alphatia and Thyatis = will > cause a massive drain of the radiance and cause a DOD. Perhaps the = Alphatia > research a "nuclear fireball" spell like that of an atomic bomb which > requires the sacrifice of hundreds of lives and this causes a magical > reaction capable of draining the Radiance? (see Harry Turtle Doves > "Darkness" series for an example of magical power out of control) Remember that the Radiance lies in Glantri and that the Brotherhood of = the Radiance, who are the only users of the Radiance (besides the Shadow = Elves with the Chamber of Spheres that is), are a secret cabal of = Glantrian mages. The Alphatians have no access to the Radiance and have = no magic drawing on it. At least in the official material. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:11:02 +1000 From: Alfred O'Meagher Subject: Re: Week without Magic & Day of Dread The Alphatians have no access to the Radiance and have no magic drawing on it. At least in the official material. That isn't really correct. The alphatians and everybody and everything else draws on the Radiance as it is the source of magic. Hence the eventual disappearance of dragons and elves since they are part of the weave of magic. The Brotherhood of the Radiance are the people trying (in most cases) to replace the Radiance that other drain away. Or at least, like modern short-sighted water resource bureaucrats, trying to hoard magic for themselves. I think that the whole Radiance concept was a good one until the addition of the NoS. That wrecked the whole idea of mana / Radiance and skewed the world so much that it made Mystara a much harder setting both to understand and reconcile and also to run or play in. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:12:30 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Re: Elven battle losses & Second Inhuman War -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Jordi Castille Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 1:55 AM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Elven battle losses & Second Inhuman War > Question: Have you figured the Lifespan of the Hobgoblin in this, I am sure that would Drazen one hell of an old gobliniod. I estimate Hobgoblins to have a lifespan of about 30 years. This hobgoblin in particular makes use of Glantri magic's (spells, scrolls, potions) to extend his lifespan in addition to using his psionic powers to drain the life-forces of his enemies (helps to keep him young). George ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:26:25 -0400 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Flame Wars of the past Jordi wrote: > This is like any other flame war, besides, it keeps the MML busy and active. There is a difference between a good discussion that gets people animatedd, and one where the various participants begin to exchange insults (and worse) - people who remember the canon debates, the "Stefan - good or evil?" war, and the perennial "which is better, OD&D, 2E, or 3E?" discussion, will know what I'm talking about. The drow discussion was beginning to take on the characteristics of these more infamous flame wars, and so it had to be nipped in the bud. That's why I advanced what (I thought) would be good guidelines for a discussion on this topic, since I recognise that there are a number of Mystarans out there who do want to discuss it for its campaign implications - Joaquin got the ball rolling nicely, I think. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 15:41:06 +0200 From: Thibault SARLAT Subject: Re: Light vs. Dark and yet Odin has a Raven as a familiar, exemplifying wisdom if i recall co= rrectly... you can also take the symbolysm of the creatures of the earth (and those= who live below ground) and the ones who live in the sky... I i remember correctly, elves, trolls, and gnomes in the Norse religion a= nd folklore were kind of related=3F thib > Messsage du 17/04/2002 13:49 > De : Mystara RPG Discussion > A : > Copie =E0 : > Objet : [MYSTARA] Light vs. Dark > > > > Are you saying that linguistically in the Scandinavian languages > > > that good is the same as light and bad is same as dark=3F Or is > > > this from cultural reference that light is good, and dark is bad=3F= > > > > > > In Norse mythology, were Dark Elves really considered bad=3F > > This is a patchwork of what I can recall and some of my own reasoning. = In the viking culture and mythology there is emphasis on light vs. dark. T= his is not without reason, simply out of the contrast between dark winters= and light summers. During winter there were fewer daylight hours and it w= as not possible to grow food, men had to light fires to keep the dark at b= ay. Tales were told of things hiding in the dark, just out of sight, thing= s with no good intentions. During summer even the nights seemed lighter, t= here was warmth, good food and cause for celebration. Naturally light and = dark were seen as manifestations of or metaphors for good and bad. > > This is exemplified by several cases. The ideal person was blond and bl= ue-eyed, dark hair was reason for distrust. The Norse gods were almost all= blond, Loki being the notable exception, having dark hair. But then he wa= sn't truly of the Aesir or Vanir, the two races of the gods. And as we all= know, Loki isn't the nicest person around. Ravens were considered a bad o= men, this mostly because they are carrion eaters, but being black birds di= dn't improve their lot. Niflheim, the realm of Hel, where the unworthy go = when they die, was called the world of fog, a cold and dark place with Hel= 's domain lying underground. Valhalla, where Odin and the gods reside, lie= s in the sky, reached by the Rainbow Bridge. During the Ragnarok, where al= l the Norse gods are killed and disaster in general falls on the world, th= e sun is swallowed, leaving the lands in darkness. Just a few examples of = why dark (and the word dark) would typically be seen as bad. > > As for elves (and dwarves to some degree), they were not considered pur= e evil, but they did have their own agendas and they liked to play pranks = on others. Not just light-hearted, mischievous, harmless pranks intended t= o enlighten and teach, but cruel, malicious pranks intended to degrade, hu= miliate or outright harm the victims (Loki played a lot of those pranks to= o). And of course they lived underground in the darkness. > > Jacob Skytte > scythe@wnadoo.dk > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 15:22:53 +0100 From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Week without Magic & Day of Dread ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alfred O'Meagher" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 1:11 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Week without Magic & Day of Dread >> The Alphatians have no access to the Radiance and have no magic drawing on >> it. At least in the official material. > > That isn't really correct. The alphatians and everybody and everything else > draws on the Radiance as it is the source of magic. Hence the eventual > disappearance of dragons and elves since they are part of the weave of > magic. The Brotherhood of the Radiance are the people trying (in most cases) > to replace the Radiance that other drain away. Or at least, like modern > short-sighted water resource bureaucrats, trying to hoard magic for > themselves. > According to the 'canon' It's you who've got it wromg as it is the use of the radiance that drains magic. It's pretty explicit due to the fact that the more use of the radiance the less magic there is, hence the Week Without Magic Day of Dread etc. However if in your campaign it's the other way then that's fine by all of us, UNLESS you try to force your version to be the "One and Only TRUE version of Mystara T.M. etc" of course. In which case we'll just laugh at you and keep playing our own version of Mystara. :^) Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 17:48:50 +0200 From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Week without Magic & Day of Dread Alfred O'Meagher wrote: > That isn't really correct. The alphatians and everybody and everything = else > draws on the Radiance as it is the source of magic. Hence the eventual > disappearance of dragons and elves since they are part of the weave of > magic. The Brotherhood of the Radiance are the people trying (in most = cases) > to replace the Radiance that other drain away. Or at least, like = modern > short-sighted water resource bureaucrats, trying to hoard magic for > themselves. That's not what my GAZ3 says, and that was what I was quoting as my = "official" source. It is the "curse" on the Nucleus of the Spheres, = placed there to hinder its ability to produce Immortals of the Sphere of = Energy in a way that circumvents the regular methods, which causes the = drain on magic. This drain goes on as long as there are people using the = specific powers granted by the Radiance. The Alphatians (except those = living in Glantri, that is) have no way of knowing about or using the = Radiance. That's not to say that your version isn't interesting, but as far as I = can tell what I wrote is "officially" correct. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 17:48:52 +0200 From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Light vs. Dark Thibault SARLAT wrote: > and yet Odin has a Raven as a familiar, exemplifying wisdom if i = recall correctly... Odin was not exactly considered the most benevolent of gods. In fact he = was quite sinister and often considered cowardly, using magic and tricks = all the time. And yes, he had both two ravens (Thought and Memory) that = whispered all they saw in the world into his ears and two "pet" wolves. = This is most likely because these animals are carrion eaters and Odin = was the god of the dead. The ravens were everywhere, watching, so Odin = got to know most everything that happened from them. The Norse pantheon isn't all made up of benevolent good guys, Odin is a = good example, and he's their king! Loki was also part of the Norse = pantheon residing in Valhalla and spent a lot of time hanging out with = Thor (though he often caused trouble). So no, it's not all light vs. = dark, there was a little more nuance than that. ;) > I i remember correctly, elves, trolls, and gnomes in the Norse = religion and folklore were kind of related? I'm not sure what they were all called and who's related to whom and = how, a lot of creatures were giants or variants on giants. There were = giants in all manner of shapes and sizes, such as giants in the shapes = of wolves. In D&D we'd probably call the giant varieties by all manner = of different names, trolls for one. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:43:47 -0700 From: Jordi Castille Subject: Re: Week without Magic & Day of Dread Jacob Skytte wrote: Giorgio wrote: > What kind of event can cause a magical drain large enough to cause a DOD? Well, turning the Nucleus of the Spheres into a Doomsday Weapon and firing it at Sundsvall, the Alphatian capitol, seemed to do the trick. In fact it drained so much Rad force that it caused a Week Without Magic, but some was restored leading to a Day of Dread instead. -------------------------------- If you read the Immortal fury adventure in the WOTI boxed set, the PC or the Immortals enter the nucleus of the Sphere which happens to be part the Beagle. the PC are to press emergency reroute of energy with the use of Benekander's shield to prevent the machine's self destruction, unfortunately this caused the destruction of Alphatia and the Week Without Magic, the reroute restored the Rads back down to the the Day of Dread Level, but during 1014 it's at 438 rads, meaning that even though it's draining Entrophy, Theoretically i have reason to believe that the Rad force is now corruping people using it, little by little. pretty soon at 6 additional rad drains per year, it may be that another Week Without magic may happen, read the Glantri boxed set book for more reference. ________________________________________________ --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:50:21 -0700 From: Jordi Castille Subject: Re: Air Travel Giampaolo Agosta wrote: Giorgio wrote: > > I know Glantrian wizards makes use of flying carpets , flying spells and the > like, but that is on an individual basis I think. Count Emeth Urbaal of Wylon has developed a prototype zeppelin, and Prince Volospin Aendyr has some sort of aircraft, though I can't remember what exactly right now. The other "major" air power in the Known World would be the Flying City of Serraine. -- I guess you forgot about Heldannic Territories' Warbirds, and the Alphatian Air Yacht's and it's Famous Princess Ark, and the NACE., they are also air power, Thyatis all they have is a mounted aerial cavalry at Retebius. IMO NACE, and Heldanner are also major air powers, didn't Prince Volospin have an Air Barge? --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:58:20 -0700 From: macnerd Subject: Re: Light vs. Dark > Behalf Of Jacob Skytte > Thibault SARLAT wrote: > > I i remember correctly, elves, trolls, and gnomes in the > Norse religion and folklore were kind of related? > > I'm not sure what they were all called and who's related to > whom and how, a lot of creatures were giants or variants on > giants. There were giants in all manner of shapes and sizes, > such as giants in the shapes of wolves. In D&D we'd probably > call the giant varieties by all manner of different names, > trolls for one. Elves definitely are as the Alfheim and Svaralfheim are actual worlds in Norse mythology. Light Elves and Dark Elves are apart of Norse mythology. I don't know about gnomes.... There were faeries as well. Though these I think are more icelandic... I forgot... Giants, like Fire Giants and others, are apart of Norse mythology. Though because of physics and biology, they cannot truly exist. :-) Trolls are apart of Norse mythology, though not the ones presented in D&D. Trolls are really smart and are also sorcerers, i.e. magic practitioners. But they were hideous. There's also a half-troll (trollborn), which are similar in statistics to half-orcs. In Changeling (White Wolf), they have trolls, which are attractive blue skinned human-like humanoids. They are strong and aggressive. I think Dragon Lance had something similar (or was that ogres?)... Perhaps before, when the fey ruled Mystara, trolls were intelligent and strong creatures. However, due to some event they became corrupted and eventually became the D&D troll. There might be some intelligent, though hideous looking, trolls around. IMC, I have some of these that charge a toll for crossing a bridge...hence a troll bridge, where you have to pay a troll to cross the bridge. :-) Lastly, in NR, there are several varieties of trolls beyond the standard trolls, like a rock troll. However, they never documented these varieties, just only mentioned them. I was thinking to detail those varieties, and also provide stats on a true Norse troll (smart troll) and trollborn (1/2 true Norse troll). I don't know if people would be interested... - Joaquin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:03:53 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Max=20Rega?= Subject: Endless Armies I want to summarise in a catalog every army in the Know World and discuss about them ( uniforms, awards, tattics, ecc.). Contributes will be welcome. Who is working on the next MA of Ierendi? Let me know. Eijerzz* ===== - Non ti far mai servo: non far tregua coi vili: il santo Vero mai non tradir: né proferir mai verbo, che plauda al vizio, o la virtù derida - A.Manzoni ______________________________________________________________________ Speciale Giochi - Civilization III http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://civ3.yahoo.it/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:15:22 -0700 From: Jordi Castille Subject: Re: George's Current Mystara Campaign what you or someone else, I love working of Darokin for many, many years. Giorgio wrote: > You're doing Darokin, and you didn't conuslt me? I am shocked Let me make some imput. I didn't get that. Is that in reference to what I wrote or to what someone else wrote? George ******************************************************************** --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:38:40 -0700 From: Jordi Castille Subject: Re: Week without Magic & Day of Dread Giorgio wrote: Is there anything like the Dead of Dread in the Old World(regional or local) before the WOTI takes place? George ******************************************************************** No, at that time, The Nucleus of the Spheres were draining from the Sphere of Energy, where magic came from, so the Day of Drain hardly ever happened, that and the fact that Rad was maintaining the NOS from deep within Glantri, the Day of Dread's of the post WOTI, is the effects of the NOS recharging itself by draining energy from the Chaos sphere, and chaos destroys so it tends to eats Mystara magic for just one day at this moment in time, i believe that when it started draining from Chaos was when the Week Without Magic happened. With another Week Without Magic yet to happen again, the next best thing would be to reroute the NOS again, or destroy all those who use are the radiance in order to save magic, of course that PC would become the enemies of the Shadow Elves and Glantri. Just a thought Jordi Castille --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:11:25 -0700 From: Jordi Castille Subject: Re: Why Drow cant fit in Mystara? macnerd wrote: Hello all. I will open up with my opinion, and people can add theirs, and so forth... fine by me. Joaquin: I think that Drow as presented in FR and GH to a lesser extent, would not fit into the Mystara campaign. My reasoning is that, one Lloth does not have a presence as a major Immortal in Mystara, and two I would prefer to have a unique Drow (Dark Elf) race in Mystara rather than copying material. Mystara has mostly unique material, and as such I would like to have something more original. Jordi: Material presented in the GDQ and the Drow of the Underdark is very good, telling you that not all drow are very evil, Lolth as a power in planescape would on have a minor version of herself as an Immortal on Mystara as Lolithor or you can have on of the more darker Immortals as a patron for the drow there, which must be female, Like Nyx or Hel, me i would pick lolithor as a minor immortal due to the small number of drow there. Second the Shadow Elves and the "Dark Elves" are in the known war there is no other reference to them anywhere else in Mystara, The Adri Varma Plateau would be a good choice for a small enclave to be placed, The Drow can serve as great assassin for countries needing of their services like Hule, or Denagoth, or by Agents of Entrophy such as Synn, or Ludwig Von Hendricks. Most of us aren't using Pachydermions on Mystara but you we're discussing where to place them, how would the Drow be any different? --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:26:11 -0400 From: SteelAngel Subject: Deities and Demigods 3e was:Re: [MYSTARA] Why Drow cant fit in Mystara? On Wed, 17 Apr 2002, Jordi Castille wrote: > Lolth as a power in planescape would on have a minor version of herself > as an Immortal on Mystara as Lolithor Heh. I have to comment on this, simply because I recently bought the new Dieties and Demigods book. A 'lesser' version of a 3e God is practically mortal, since the way that Gods are presented in 3e is really as mortals with cool powers and many class levels. Immortals in oD&D are much more than that. Considering that an Immortal can create planes with a thought or whole new species with a finger wiggle, observe the entire prime plane from even a deep outer plane, cast any spell any number of times per however long, without taking any class levels or feats (nay, I would consider a 3e Immortal to be beyond mortal feats and classes) I'm dissapointed in Deities and Demigods. I would have expected a WoTI type treatment of Gods, given that the Epic Level book theoretically allows for PCs to acheive power levels beyond that of the 'Gods' in this book. I may be biased.. Immortals in all my campaigns cannot even be challenged by Mortals. Even with a Grand mastery and a +5 sword, a mortal would last exactly one round against even low level Immortals. They might get one hit in, but the Immortal can obliterate them immediately either through spells or any number of power attacks. Compared to that, 3e Gods seem more like pansy titans. Ethan -- Kinard 210 Linux Guru Webmaster www.steelangel.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:37:51 +0000 From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Air Travel Jordi Castille wrote: > > The other "major" air power in the Known World would be the Flying City > of Serraine. > > I guess you forgot about Heldannic Territories' Warbirds, > and the Alphatian Air Yacht's and it's Famous Princess Ark, and the NACE., they are also air power, Thyatis all they have is a mounted aerial cavalry at Retebius. IMO NACE, and Heldanner are also major air powers, No, I just did not want to repeat what was said by the author of the original post and another poster (P.G. Dooley, IIRC). > didn't Prince Volospin have an Air Barge? I would not know, actually. I remember some sort of aircraft from that supplement on weird magic items by Bruce Heard (the Dragonfly of Doom, perhaps?) Anyway, just to give an overview of air powers as described in this thread: Alphatia (Skynavy) Thyatis (RAF, KoA) HK (Warbirds) Serraine (Flying City, various smaller crafts) Glantri (Zeppelin, Volospin's contraption) Hule (Flying Barge, some undead) Wyrmsteeth (Dragons...) and, in the Hollow World, Nithia (Flying Barges) Oostdok (Zeppelins). Outside Mystara: Myoshima (flying sabretooth tigers) -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:43:08 +0000 From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Endless Armies Max Rega wrote: > > I want to summarise in a catalog every army in the > Know World and discuss > about them ( uniforms, awards, tattics, ecc.). > Contributes will be welcome. > Who is working on the next MA of Ierendi? > Let me know. We (the Thyatis Character Reference, http://www.geocities.com/talerio) have been discussing KW armies for some time. I've started redoing all PWA armies at a more homogeneous level (that of the Karameikos gaz, basically), but we've not yet tackled the details like uniforms and so on, so we'd certainly be interested in hearing your ideas. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:37:58 +1000 From: Alfred O'Meagher Subject: Re: Week without Magic & Day of Dread > According to the 'canon' It's you who've got it wromg as it is the use > of the radiance that drains magic. It's pretty explicit due to the fact that > the more use of the radiance the less magic there is, hence the Week Without > Magic Day of Dread etc. > However if in your campaign it's the other way then that's fine by all > of us, UNLESS you try to force your version to be the "One and Only TRUE > version of Mystara T.M. etc" of course. In which case we'll just laugh at > you and keep playing our own version of Mystara. :^) Er... the use of Radiance drains magic? Yes, because RADIANCE IS MAGIC. THat's why Radiance drain = magic drain. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:43:29 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: D&D Related Comics (Was: Re: [MYSTARA] Air Travel) At 12:31 PM 4/17/02 +1000, you wrote: > Does anyone read MERIDIAN from CrossGen comics? If not, give it a go -- it's > very KnownWorld-ish, albeit set in a world of sky islands, sky ships and so > on. Beautiful artwork too. I was reading it for a while- I picked it up mainly for the reasons you describe- the artwork (I was looking to get an idea of fantasy/medievalish art). I'd equate it a bit more to Alphatia, actually, in its depiction of skyships and floating islands and a continent beneath it. I stopped reading it a while ago, though- I just couldn't really get into the story. Crossgen has some really good stories in that vein, though. Sojourn is decent; I really like the artwork, although the storyline is somewhat predictable at the moment (not bad, just nothing special). Its a lot better than either of the D&D offerings from Kenzer & Co. The artwork in both of those titles is (IMO) atrocious, and the stories are terrible. Other good fantasy related comics that I've read: Tellos (though it takes a rather unfantasylike turn in the later issues, and the storyline seems geared a bit more towards younger readers than I'm interested in); if you can find them anywhere, pick up the two issue run of a title called Book. I'll look up the information on the writer and stuff and post it when I get a chance. The story (again) isn't terribly good, but the artwork for a fantasy/medieval setting is really, really good. Ruse is a good read from Crossgen as well. It's more modern than the typical D&D type setting (its roughly Victorian England) but I'd still recommend it highly. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:35:56 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Deities and Demigods 3e At 04:26 PM 4/17/02 -0400, you wrote: > > A 'lesser' version of a 3e God is practically mortal, since the way that > Gods are presented in 3e is really as mortals with cool powers and many > class levels. Hmm... That's not the way I read them. They're pretty darned powerful in D&D (that's Deities and Demigods, not D&D...) > Immortals in oD&D are much more than that. Considering that an Immortal > can create planes with a thought or whole new species with a finger > wiggle, The Genesis spell allows the creation of a new plane (a demiplane). The Alter Reality salient ability allows for a wide range of applications (such as casting any spell of 9th level or lower with metamagic feats as a standard action), the Divine Creation salient ability allows for the creation of new races as a full-round action... > observe the entire prime plane from even a deep outer plane The deity's remote sensing ability crosses planes; it's not too much of an effort (using spells and salient abilities) to sense a wide range of places. Admittedly, it doesn't allow sensing of the *entire* prime, but it's still pretty powerful. > cast any spell any number of times per however long, without taking any class > levels or feats Depends. Gold Box ("original") Immortals couldn't do any such thing. Every spell cost them a number of power points, some spells more than others (if they were not of the Immortal's Sphere). The salient Divine Magic and Arcane Mastery feats (among others) give a really broad range of magical abilities to Deities. The ability to cast Temporary Power to grant the ability to cast "any number of spells any number of times per day" (especially at such a low cost of power expenditure as given in WotI) was one of the main failings of the WotI boxed set rules for Immortals. The main difference (as I see it) is that not every God (or Immortal) can cast magical spells and things any longer (if they don't possess a spellcasting class), but personally, I like the fact that it makes Immortals more distinct from one another now. > (nay, I would consider a 3e Immortal to be beyond mortal feats and classes) IMO, WotI seemed to be putting the Immortals rules a lot closer to this sort of approach (classes and such) than the Gold Box rules did. It introduced the concept of "Special Abilities" (Improved Saves, Roar, etc.) that distinguished one Immortal from another, and weapons and armor were a lot more prominent and useful than in the Gold Box rules. > I'm dissapointed in Deities and Demigods. I would have expected a WoTI > type treatment of Gods, given that the Epic Level book theoretically > allows for PCs to acheive power levels beyond that of the 'Gods' in this > book. This book was designed to stand alone from the Epic Level handbook. Presumably, if one uses the ELH, then one should correspondingly increase the power levels of the Gods in DDG. Used without the ELH (even with, AFAICT) the Gods in DDG are incredibly powerful and more than capable of taking on the highest level characters in any game (especially if used properly). Even in DDG, it mentions that the Salient Divine Abilities are roughly the equivalent of *several* Epic level feats rolled into one. Meaning Epic level characters would have to be much higher level to get the equivalent abilities of lower level gods. And if they're that high in level, they should be going against even more powerful Gods (who would have correspondingly increased abilities). > I may be biased.. Immortals in all my campaigns cannot even be challenged > by Mortals. Even with a Grand mastery and a +5 sword, a mortal would last > exactly one round against even low level Immortals. They might get one hit > in, but the Immortal can obliterate them immediately either through spells > or any number of power attacks. I think I must have a different DDG than you do. SOme of the salient abilities are just devastating: Hand of Death: No prerequisite to take. Fortitude save (DC 20 + Cha bonus + rank) or be affected as if by the destruction spell (ie, instant death). Even if a successful save is made, subject still takes 10d6 points of damage. (Example above gives save DC of 28). Increased Spell Resistance (for defense against mortals): No prerequisite. Grants an additional 20 points of Spell Resistance (in addition to the gods automatic 32+rank resistance). Can be taken multiple times, granting an additional +20 SR. Sunder and Disjoin: No prerequisite. With successful touch attack, deity can destroy weapons and items as if using a combination of disintegrate and Mordenkainen's disjunction. Save DC is 19+Cha modifier for both effects. Life Drain: Prerequisite- god possesses Death domain. Will save vs (DC10 + deities' Charisma bonus + deities Divine Rank) or death. Success still costs the character 2 negative levels. (Even a rank 1 God, with a 24 Cha- seemingly the minimum- offers a DC 18). Divine Blast: Prerequisite- 29 Charisma. 1d12 points of damage per rank + 1d12 per point of Cha bonus at a range of up to one mile per rank with no saving throw (for a rank 1 god- 10d12 points of damage minimum with a one mile range. A rank one god could use this his maximum number of times per day- 10- against his opponents). And that's just a smattering of useful and potentially devastating salient abilities. The ones without the prerequisites alone can be powerful if used properly against any mortal opponent. The Increased Spell resistance is very similar to the Anti-Magic ability of Immortals. If the deity has a high Constitution (29+) the Increased Damage reduction ability makes him virtually immune to mortals (and all but the most powerful of immortals if he takes it multiple times). Sundering/Disjoining a mortal's weapons makes them even less likely to stand against him. Life Draining away even just a few levels reduces their effectiveness, and the Divine Blast allows him to pick them off from miles away without them being able to counter his powers. Less powerful and laughable than Immortals? I'm not so sure... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:38:40 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Air Travel At 09:44 AM 4/17/02 +0200, you wrote: > > Count Emeth Urbaal of Wylon has developed a prototype zeppelin, and > Prince Volospin Aendyr has some sort of aircraft, though I can't > remember what exactly right now. How could anyone forget Volospin's Dragonflies of Doom? ;) Also, the air barge mentioned by another poster belongs to the Rajadhirajah Chandra ul-Nervi of Sind. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 23:37:21 -0400 From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Deities and Demigods 3e On Wed, 17 Apr 2002, Andrew Theisen wrote: > Hmm... That's not the way I read them. They're pretty darned powerful in > D&D (that's Deities and Demigods, not D&D...) I agree that they are powerful, but there is a disconnect between the power levels of Gods and those of Immortals. Class levels don't seem right for Immortals at all. > The Genesis spell allows the creation of a new plane (a demiplane). The > Alter Reality salient ability allows for a wide range of applications (such > as casting any spell of 9th level or lower with metamagic feats as a > standard action), the Divine Creation salient ability allows for the > creation of new races as a full-round action... Exactly. A demiplane. Not very special, considering that there are some prestige classes and spells that can create the same thing. And minus the crunchy bits, Immortals have a better set of those powers. Immortals don't have spell limits or need to take special 'feat-like' abilities to get their powers. > (especially at such a low cost of power expenditure as given in WotI) was > one of the main failings of the WotI boxed set rules for Immortals. I don't see that as a failing. I abhor uppity mortals who take on Gods/Immortals. If even a simple Empreyal can cast Meteor swarm two times a round at somewhere around 40th caster level, it makes even the 36th level fools think twice about rushing an Immortal head on. Compare this with the FR et al. books in which Gods can die by mortal hands. Gods may be able to die, but Immortals are more than Gods. > cast magical spells and things any longer (if they don't possess a > spellcasting class), but personally, I like the fact that it makes > Immortals more distinct from one another now. Immortals are distinct in their personalities and their granted domains. There is no NEED for them to be different in power levels unless you want to play in a game with pantheonic Gods. Mystara is not one of those. One Immortal can be his own pantheon by considered use of different manifestation forms. > IMO, WotI seemed to be putting the Immortals rules a lot closer to this > sort of approach (classes and such) than the Gold Box rules did. It > introduced the concept of "Special Abilities" (Improved Saves, Roar, etc.) > that distinguished one Immortal from another, and weapons and armor were a > lot more prominent and useful than in the Gold Box rules. But beyond these cute little special abilities, all Immortals basically had the same powers. D&D (Deities and Demigods :) says "This God can't cast cause he doesn't have Wizard" or "This God can't fight good, cause he don't got Fighter" > Hand of Death: No prerequisite to take. Fortitude save (DC 20 + Cha bonus + > rank) or be affected as if by the destruction spell (ie, instant death). > Even if a successful save is made, subject still takes 10d6 points of > damage. (Example above gives save DC of 28). Riight. And this is different from an Immortal level Disintigrate how? > Increased Spell Resistance (for defense against mortals): No prerequisite. > Grants an additional 20 points of Spell Resistance (in addition to the gods > automatic 32+rank resistance). Can be taken multiple times, granting an > additional +20 SR. Immortals are completely immune to any mortal spell effect. > Less powerful and laughable than Immortals? I'm not so sure... Maybe not as 'less' as I initially thought when I first read through, but not exactly as bad-ass :) Ethan -- Kinard 210 Linux Guru Webmaster www.steelangel.com ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 16 Apr 2002 to 17 Apr 2002 (#2002-105) ****************************************************************