Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 29 Apr 2002 to 30 Apr 2002 (#2002-117) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 01/05/2002, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 16 messages totalling 650 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Blackmoor ESD for free (4) 2. ESDs (11) 3. [Re: [MYSTARA] ESDs] ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 02:34:17 -0700 From: Hammer of Ulric Subject: Blackmoor ESD for free The original Blackmoor supplement (D&D campaign supplement II) and the original players map are on Dave Arneson's site at: http://www.castleblackmoor.com It also briefly mentions 3e Blackmoor. Does anyone here have any more info? Hammer of Ulric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:37:05 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: Re: ESDs On Mon, 29 Apr 2002, The Stalker wrote: > Two years and counting: WOTC still allows only people of a select few > countries to download their net-items... > > I rest my case. Hear hear. I too live "in the wilderness", the fringes of the great commercial empire. Even after they made the caravans electronic, they still refuse to risk the monster encounters in the far north. I guess we should ask Santa at Korvatunturi to organise a counter-boycott... Ville "No Credit Card - No American Citizenship - No Fun" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:22:02 +0200 From: Thibault SARLAT Subject: Re: ESDs yet there is a good way to get the pdf files it is to use morpheus or kaza= a or any other napster-like program and typing ad&d or d&d... I know that it is infridgement, i do not agree with these deeds but this = is just an information for those beyond the borders of the TSR empire... > Messsage du 30/04/2002 11:37 > De : Mystara RPG Discussion > A : > Copie =E0 : > Objet : Re: [MYSTARA] ESDs > > On Mon, 29 Apr 2002, The Stalker wrote: > > > Two years and counting: WOTC still allows only people of a select few= > > countries to download their net-items... > > > > I rest my case. > > Hear hear. I too live "in the wilderness", the fringes of the great > commercial empire. Even after they made the caravans electronic, they > still refuse to risk the monster encounters in the far north. I guess w= e > should ask Santa at Korvatunturi to organise a counter-boycott... > > Ville "No Credit Card - No American Citizenship - No Fun" > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:35:32 -0300 From: Just Another Grue Subject: Re: ESDs I spoke to a rep at WOTC a few weeks ago via e-mail. They don't have a problem with someone else buying the stuff then transferring the license to someone else. So someone within the USA could buy the items, put them on a CDROM and sell the contents of that CDROM to a single individual. It's all legal according to that guy. Ville.V.Lahde@UTA.FI wrote: > On Mon, 29 Apr 2002, The Stalker wrote: > >> Two years and counting: WOTC still allows only people of a select few >> countries to download their net-items... >> >> I rest my case. >> > > Hear hear. I too live "in the wilderness", the fringes of the great > commercial empire. Even after they made the caravans electronic, they > still refuse to risk the monster encounters in the far north. I guess we > should ask Santa at Korvatunturi to organise a counter-boycott... > > Ville "No Credit Card - No American Citizenship - No Fun" > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:29:50 -0400 From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: ESDs On Tue, 30 Apr 2002, Just Another Grue wrote: > I spoke to a rep at WOTC a few weeks ago via e-mail. They don't have a > problem with someone else buying the stuff then transferring the license > to someone else. So someone within the USA could buy the items, put them > on a CDROM and sell the contents of that CDROM to a single individual. > It's all legal according to that guy. That rep doesn't know much, I'm afraid. The Hasbro legal dept would have a field day with that. Unless that ability (to transfer the license) is explicitly stated in the click-wrap license (which may or may not be binding, those type of licenses have not been upheld in court) then you don't have the right to transfer the license. IANAL, so take this with a grain of salt, but I have followed a lot of intellectual property cases to their sour ends. Ethan -- Kinard 210 Linux Guru Webmaster www.steelangel.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:06:08 -0700 From: John Calvin Subject: Re: ESDs >> > X4: Master of the Desert Nomads ESD Uh. Where's X5. X5 is part 2, so where's X5. << Awww... my bad on this one. I made the list from my WotC "wish list" having forgot that I have already bought several of these modules (and therefore taken them off of my wish list). X5 was one of those so it is definately being offered. There are a few others that I may have left out as well, although I looked for DA2 and could not find it (even though it is listed by Jim Butler as having already been scanned and being offered by WotC). -John ===== Rule #53. If the beautiful princess that I capture says "I'll never marry you! Never, do you hear me, NEVER!!!", I will say "Oh well" and kill her. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:05:12 -0700 From: David Keyser Subject: Re: Blackmoor ESD for free Not unless you happen to know Arneson personally. I emailed him about it but received no reply. The webpage did mention he had a stroke, but he is recovering. That must have pushed his schedule back. I hope he plans a full sourcebook, that would be sweet. Dave > It also briefly mentions 3e Blackmoor. Does anyone here have any more info? > > Hammer of Ulric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:46:42 -0700 From: macnerd Subject: Re: [Re: [MYSTARA] ESDs] Awesome. I like it!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On > Behalf Of Andrew Theisen > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 5:35 PM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] [Re: [MYSTARA] ESDs] > Importance: Low > > > macnerd wrote: > >> XL1: Quest for the Heartstone ESD > > > >I'm not sure where this takes place. I think this > is a completely different D&D campaign. Though, there > was a suggestion of using hereos in this as leaders > of Ierendi.< > > I've developed it (a little bit) as the Kingdom of Ghyr, to the > immediate north of Denagoth. > > You can see what I've written about Ghyr so far on Shawn's website > (http://dnd.starflung.com), and there's an in-progress map on my > website (http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/cthulhudrew/mystara.html) > > I've actually done a lot more work on Ghyr at home, but I've > yet to put > it into a form that I'm comfortable releasing... maybe I'll drop some > tidbits onto my site this week. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:51:13 -0700 From: macnerd Subject: Re: Blackmoor ESD for free I e-mailed him too, but got no reply. :'( > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On > Behalf Of David Keyser > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:05 PM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor ESD for free > > > Not unless you happen to know Arneson personally. I emailed him > about it but received no reply. The webpage did mention he had a > stroke, but he is recovering. That must have pushed his schedule > back. > > I hope he plans a full sourcebook, that would be sweet. > > Dave > > > >It also briefly mentions 3e Blackmoor. Does anyone here have > any more info? > > > > > Hammer of Ulric > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:40:29 -0700 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: ESDs If wizards got off their ass and did something about their foreign policy then this problem would not exist (or perhaps it is why it exists - internet and data laws?). > yet there is a good way to get the pdf files it is > to use morpheus or kazaa or any other napster-like > program and typing ad&d or d&d... Good you say. I advise anyone looking at this to do their research. Morpheus has gone to hell with Kazaa for dealing with the devil. Both are riddled with dodgyness and spyware. I would not touch them anymore (and if you have make sure you clean up you computer cause it don't just uninstall). although I never got Kazaa, I would not trust it, although there is reportedly a spyware free (hacked) version called Kazaa-Lite. WinMX+TrippyMX -> spyware free Bearshare -> can choose not to install spyware in install (I think you still can at least). I didn't bring it up, but I thought I better speak up before people FUBAR their computers. > I know that it is infridgement, i do not agree with > these deeds but this is just an information for > those beyond the borders of the TSR empire... Ditto. I would be happy to pay for the things I want, if they would let me. I think in this day and age they need a wake up call. Cause if people are not allowed to buy it cause they are not from the right country, that does not stop them wanting it and encorages rule bending and law breaking which is bad. So knock knock wizards... is my money not good enough for you? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:02:03 -0400 From: Pat Subject: Re: ESDs > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion > [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On Behalf Of Chris Furneaux > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 6:40 PM > If wizards got off their ass and did something about > their foreign policy then this problem would not exist > (or perhaps it is why it exists - internet and data > laws?). Ever occur to you to ask? Here is the reason stated by Ryan Dancey, who at the time, IIRC, was the brand manager of WotC (like Anthony Valterra is now) on the D&D-L back in August of last year. > If it is that simple, why doesn't WoTC allow ESDs outside the US? The problem is with the tax regimes. Hasbro is a multinational corporation, and is taxed by every country it does business in. That tax structure is complex; sometimes Hasbro is taxed as a local company because it has a subsidiary located in that country; sometimes it is taxed as a foreign company operating in the country doing the taxing. In Europe, things are even more complex for reasons I can't even begin to go into in an email. WotC's e-commerce group (who host the ESDs and manage the payment system) would like to sell them to anyone who wants to buy them. However, they have one platform for their whole operation and before they can sell an ESD to a new country, their whole platform has to be ready to do business in that country. They are working the problem, but it's a low priority for them compared to other big projects (like integrating the Star Wars fan club). Ryan Pat patsite@calandyr.com "Don't think! Just pick up that phone, and make it happen!" - Scully, The X-Files ABV89-0570-KY ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 01:14:20 +0200 From: =?us-ascii?Q?Andres_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: ESDs Personally I don't think it's a good idea to hint and prompt on this list about sites and systems to illegally download WotC ESDs... IMO, Kazaa and Morpheus suck, they upset your system for good and fill it with spyware of all sorts... Besides, I can understand what most people say about ESDs and Wizards' international policy, but the problem with systems like Kazaa, Morpheus, etc... is that they also distribute in-print books (I'm talking of 3E stuff), things you can buy anywhere in the world, with or without credit card... If a movement to "free the OOP files which Wizards does not let people abroad have" is going to rise -and, let me capitalize it, THE MML SHOULD NOT BE A PLACE TO DISCUSS IT-, it should be in a site, ftp, whatever, which focuses on OOP stuff only... In case anyone wants to break the law, please do it with style, don't hurt games designers' present property, so that you have a .pdf of a book released in hardcopy just 1 week ago!!!! I'm an author and I would not be very happy to see that happen to me -fortunately, ancient history readers are not into the morpheus fad-. So, any support for distribution systems which do that should be out of the question. Back to the alignment thread, be Chaotic, but don't get Evil!!! Andres ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:23:31 -0700 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: ESDs I thought I had better add that I am in complete agreement with the below. I just didn't want to see people on this list go and fubar their computers. In my last post I had no goals of encoraging illegal activities. Just making sure people know that some of this stuff is not just illegal but dangerous and putting my vote in for a having a legal option from wizards. (just making sure I am clear, as I definatly do not want to misunderstood on this one) BTW. Chaotic good is my personal choice of alignment. Evil is bad (but you knew that) --- Andres_Piquer_Otero wrote: > Personally I don't think it's a good idea to hint > and prompt on this list > about sites and systems to illegally download WotC > ESDs... > IMO, Kazaa and Morpheus suck, they upset your system > for good and fill it > with spyware of all sorts... Besides, I can > understand what most people say > about ESDs and Wizards' international policy, but > the problem with systems > like Kazaa, Morpheus, etc... is that they also > distribute in-print books > (I'm talking of 3E stuff), things you can buy > anywhere in the world, with or > without credit card... > > If a movement to "free the OOP files which Wizards > does not let people > abroad have" is going to rise -and, let me > capitalize it, THE MML SHOULD NOT > BE A PLACE TO DISCUSS IT-, it should be in a site, > ftp, whatever, which > focuses on OOP stuff only... > > In case anyone wants to break the law, please do it > with style, don't hurt > games designers' present property, so that you have > a .pdf of a book > released in hardcopy just 1 week ago!!!! I'm an > author and I would not be > very happy to see that happen to me -fortunately, > ancient history readers > are not into the morpheus fad-. So, any support for > distribution systems > which do that should be out of the question. Back to > the alignment thread, > be Chaotic, but don't get Evil!!! > > Andres > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:39:51 -0700 From: The Stalker Subject: Re: ESDs On Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:02:03 -0400, Pat wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Mystara RPG Discussion >> [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On Behalf Of Chris Furneaux >> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 6:40 PM > >> If wizards got off their ass and did something about >> their foreign policy then this problem would not exist >> (or perhaps it is why it exists - internet and data >> laws?). > > Ever occur to you to ask? > > Here is the reason stated by Ryan Dancey, who at the time, IIRC, was the > brand manager of WotC (like Anthony Valterra is now) on the D&D-L back > in August of last year. > > > >> If it is that simple, why doesn't WoTC allow ESDs outside the US? > > The problem is with the tax regimes. > > Hasbro is a multinational corporation, and is taxed by every country it > does business in. That tax structure is complex; sometimes Hasbro is > taxed as a local company because it has a subsidiary located in that > country; sometimes it is taxed as a foreign company operating in the > country doing the taxing. In Europe, things are even more complex for > reasons I can't even begin to go into in an email. > > WotC's e-commerce group (who host the ESDs and manage the payment > system) would like to sell them to anyone who wants to buy them. > However, they have one platform for their whole operation and before > they can sell an ESD to a new country, their whole platform has to be > ready to do business in that country. > > They are working the problem, but it's a low priority for them compared > to other big projects (like integrating the Star Wars fan club). > > Ryan > While I understand this, the problem is that "we're looking into it" is just the same response (i.e., excuse) I got when I asked WOTC about this two years ago. Not to mention that I had to cause a lot of fuss over it on DND-L before Keith Strohm eventually apparently decided that my complaints were bad publicity for WOTC and made sure they at least answered my posts. At the time, they did not explain why in the slightest, but instead gave people like me the impression that "this will all be sorted out - just be a little patient, people". If they had said this, at least I could have respected them for it. They didn't, though. And they didn't the next year... It's now *TWO YEARS* and there is *NO PROGESS* !!! I judge them not by what they say, but what they do, or rather don't, in this particular case. I really wanted to add the quite extensive list of countries whose inhabitants are prohibited from doing business with WOTC, but the site is currently down. But go and find the ESDs on the their site (I looked at X10: Red Arrow, Black Shield) and note the very long list of countries at the bottom that is "currently" banned by WOTC. And note the word "currently" - not "permanently", not "for the forseeable future" - no, after two bloody years, they still have the nerve to say "currently". 'nuff said. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 14:41:20 +1000 From: Alfred O'Meagher Subject: Re: Blackmoor ESD for free It's interesting, to somewhat tangentially continue observations about 'canon', that the original (1975) Blackmoor, which is presumably the equivalent of the Dead Sea Scrolls for fanboys, has Stephen "The Rock" and his followers as men from another "dimension/world" sent as police to stop appearance of inappropriate technology in Arneson's World. This is a much stronger premise (a la Warlock In Spite of Himself , Witchworld, etc.) than the later mutation of the story involving the Beagle and so forth. The original is also the version straight from the creator's mind, without the intermediary points of departure imposed by later editors and the TSR hacks. When I run D&D I will be using all of the maps and background from Arneson's own game, as this is the only conceivable 'canon' on which to base anything. Of course Arneson, being the true father of gaming, dismisses any notions of gaming 'canon' in any event. He really is "King IMC". ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 14:45:41 +1000 From: Alfred O'Meagher Subject: Re: ESDs > system) would like to sell them to anyone who wants to buy them. > However, they have one platform for their whole operation and before > they can sell an ESD to a new country, their whole platform has to be > ready to do business in that country. > > They are working the problem, but it's a low priority for them compared > to other big projects (like integrating the Star Wars fan club). So in fact it is a purely commercial decision - there is no special mumbo-jumbo involved in selling in other countries. HASBRO simply want to preserve their own region-by-region sales structure - each set of countries has a HASBRO subsidiary and the HASBRO subsidiaries sell to their own area, and if we could get stuff online it would undermine the pricing regimes HASBRO are trying to run on their potential customers. And before anyone leaps to HASBRO's defence, think it through. GW, and everyone else pretty much, all manage to sell stuff direct, including pay-for-download files. It's a commercial policy at HASBRO, not a legal hitch. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 29 Apr 2002 to 30 Apr 2002 (#2002-117) ****************************************************************