Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 14 Jan 2002 to 15 Jan 2002 (#2002-16) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 16/01/2002, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 11 messages totalling 530 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Some ideas on the lost elven city (2) 2. More ideas on elven city 3. Ardelphia (was: where to place an gondolin-like (2) 4. MA1018 5. A Complete Guide to the Cosmos - the Dimensional Nature of Beings 6. R:[MYSTARA] More ideas on elven city (2) 7. Which Immortal to use? 8. elven city name ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:48:51 +0200 From: Ville V Lahde Subject: Some ideas on the lost elven city Here are some loose ideas on the Gondolin-style elven refuge. I proposed the Mengul mountains as one possible location, and started to think more about it. The city might have been started by an elven lord of the Lothenar people, who was worried by the increasing influence of Idris worship in Denagoth. (This could take place some time before the rise of Landryn Teriak, the Shadowlord - look at Marco's and Shawn's excellent account of the history of Denagoth in the Vaults, under "resources" and "history".) He may have received a vision from, or a visitation by a powerful being who told him that troubled times were to come for Lothenar, and that a refuge would be needed to continue their heritage. I propose that an ancient golden dragon would be a good candidate for the Patron. I'll give the reason to this in the following. The elven lord couldn't convince the ruler of the Lothenar elves of the usefulness of such a mission. Perhaps the elves of the northern forests had lived so long in the midst of the patient pines and the resilient lichen, that sudden changes were even more unappealing to them than to their southern cousins. So, the elven lord gathered his followers and started on the quest for finding their refuge. To make the hidden city a bit more like Gondolin, you might have the elven lord bump into a group of dwarves who were lured to the north by rumours of gold, and driven away from Glantri. The dream of the elven lord appealed to the dwarves, who were puzzled to find a group of elves who seemed to lack the traditional emnity between the Rockhheimers and the Alfheimers. (Isolated from the southern countries, the northern elves had had little contact with the dwarwes. The alien nature of the dwarves puzzled them, but they hadn't leraned to hate them. - Perhaps the golden dragon even told the elven lord to "seek the council of the sons of stone".) (Note: The dwarves would give the elves the ability to construct their mountain refuge, and give access to the Gondolinesque weapons. Of course in Silmarillion dwarves didn't have anything to do with Gondolin, but they are a good substitute for the craftiness of the noldor elves, who have no equivalent in Mystara.) Eventually the elves and their dwarf allies will find the hidden valley promised by the dragon. In the following years they begin constructing the city. News of the devastation wrought by the followers of Idris, and the treachery of some Denagothisn tribes in the great wars against the Essurians reach the city from time to time. They learn of the growing distrust between the humans and elves in Denagoth, and decide to close off their refuge. In the following years the elven lord repeatedly receives visions from his patron, urging him to make preparations for a war that is sure to come. But used to the safe life in the haven, the lord pays no heed to the warnings. This all will change when a human warrior reaches the hidden city, bypassing the magical wards constructed by elven mages. He calls himself Henadin, a descendant of the warleader who fought the armies of king Nebunar. His people have been enslaved by the Essurians. After slaying a warleader that had taken over his childhood village he was forced to flee. In a moment of desperation he was rescued by an ancient golden dragon who told him of his heritage and directed him to the forgotten grave of Henadin. There he found the sword and the shield of the long dead warleader. By the grave he received a vision of a hidden city of elven warriors. When the new Henadin arrives in the hidden city, he is at first received with suspicion and taken prisoner. But the images in the sword and the shield, and the events described by the song sung by Henadin, remind some of the eldest elves of the days when Denagothian elves and humans fought side by side against the armies of Nebunar. The elven lord remembers the promises he gave to the ancient golden dragon, the promises he has broken... - - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:19:32 +0200 From: Ville V Lahde Subject: More ideas on elven city More notes to continue the previous mail: Henadin receives training in the hidden elven city. Little by little the elven lord grows fond of his adoptee, and is reluctant to let him return to the outside world. But Henadin is convinced that this is necessary, and asks the lord to give him an elite unit of elves to fight against the Essurian overlords. The lord refuses. The arrival of two golden dragons into the hidden city changes the situation. The dragons bring news of the growing power of Landryn Teriak, and remind the elven lord of his pledges to his patron. Reluctantly the lord allows some of his warriors to join Henadin on his quest. As told elsewhere, the Henadin manages to raise an army of Denagothians against the Essurians, and the army is joined by the golden dragons. What these stories neglect to mention, that the battle over Drax Tallen was solved by the surprise attack of the elven warriors. The Essurians were no match to their magic, and dwarven armour and weapons. This neglect is not surprising, though. Even though the armies of Henadin drove away Landryn Teriak (who was nearly killed by one golden dragon during his escape) and ransacked Drax Tallen, the teaching of the Followers of Idris had born fruit among the Denagothians. Some tribes attackes the army from the rear, so their victory was followed by bitter treachery. The army was scattered like leaves in the wind. Henadin is mortally wounded. The remaining elven warriors rescue him from the traitors, but his sword and armour are left in Drax Tallen (see X11). Just before the elves reach the hidden city, Henadin dies and is buried in the mountains... - - - The hidden city could be used during the Shadow Lord wars of X11. Landryn Teriak knows about the existence of the hidden city, but doesn't know its location. As told in X11 Landryn Teriak will destroy the elves of Lothenar during his rise in Gereth Minar. This might be a good time to place some adventures that involve the hidden city. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:22:34 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Some ideas on the lost elven city > The city might have been started by an elven lord of the Lothenar people, > who was worried by the increasing influence of Idris worship in Denagoth. > (This could take place some time before the rise of Landryn Teriak, the > Shadowlord - look at Marco's and Shawn's excellent account of the history > of Denagoth in the Vaults, under "resources" and "history".) > He may have received a vision from, or a visitation by a powerful being > who told him that troubled times were to come for Lothenar, and that a > refuge would be needed to continue their heritage. I propose that an > ancient golden dragon would be a good candidate for the Patron. I'll > give the reason to this in the following. Very good idea here, since the rest of the Lothenar elves eventually got wiped out...much like the original story, too. > > To make the hidden city a bit more like Gondolin, you might have the elven > lord bump into a group of dwarves who were lured to the north by rumours > of gold, and driven away from Glantri. AH, this would have to be after AC 807 (IIRC), when the dwarves were driven from Glantri following that plague. > Perhaps the golden dragon even told the elven lord to "seek the council of the sons of stone".) Good points here - the presence of dwarves might throw PC visitors for a loop, but it would make the visit all the more memorable. IMC, the Wendarian elves are more like the Noldor anyway (they tend to build cities - albeit nestled in forests - as opposed to living in trees, possibly as a result of being around humans for so long. > In the following years the elven lord repeatedly receives visions from his > patron, urging him to make preparations for a war that is sure to come. > But used to the safe life in the haven, the lord pays no heed to the > warnings. Possibly providing a lead-in to involving the city in any events related to X11 and whatnot... Wow! That's incredible Ville! Thank you so much for these ideas! :-) Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:01:47 -0600 From: Stone Marshall Subject: Re: Ardelphia (was: where to place an gondolin-like hey! Thats a real good idea! I hope you dont mind if I use something similar IMC. My PC's have never been to these particular ruins but they can be enticed with a little persuasion ;) Multizar the Mage > From: Geoff Gander > Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Ardelphia (was: where to place an gondolin-like > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 23:12:54 -0500 > > My players will be going there soon, to seek out some lost treasures said > to have been left there by a patron's deceased relative. Little to they > know that there is a curse there - so many people died horribly there that > all who sleep within or near its ruins are forced to relive to horrific > fall of the city in their dreams. I plan to play out a gruesome rampage > as scores of humanoids break through the defences and wreak havoc, while > the PCs find themselves trying to defend the populace. If they "die", > they will wake up, but they will have bad night terrors afterwards. > Thereafter, whenever they see the ruins, they will also see, just for an > instant, what happened in a particular area as the city fell (ie: the > mossy foundations of a house turn into a flaming home filled with people > desperate to escape, but a second later the observer sees the ruins > again, etc.) There will be a powerful humanoid wokan there who has > discovered the sad properties of this place, and who harnesses the > energies for his/her foul purposes, while ruling over a nasty tribe. If > the PCs kill the wokan, and destroy a humanoid shrine that was erected in > one of the cellars, the land will be cleansed, and the restless spirits > who still haunt the place will be freed. > > Geoff > > -- > Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 > Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer > Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy > au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:11:37 -0800 From: Herve Musseau Subject: MA1018 >> I cannot download PDF#12 and PDF#13, and the 12mb >> PDF wouldn't unzip for me. > Could be an error in the download, I know the 12mb > file was working from starflung cause it worked for me... > as for the others they don't work for me either, but > you could try the geocities almanac site. All files function, I just tested them, but there was an error in the link for files #12&13 indeed. Now it's correct. ===== ___________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau http://www.geocities.com/hmusseau/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:57:38 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Ardelphia (was: where to place an gondolin-like > > hey! Thats a real good idea! I hope you dont mind if I use something similar > IMC. My PC's have never been to these particular ruins but they can be > enticed with a little persuasion ;) > > Multizar the Mage Go right ahead! :-) Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:49:43 +0100 From: la Volpe Subject: A Complete Guide to the Cosmos - the Dimensional Nature of Beings THE DIMENSIONAL NATURE OF BEINGS Unliving things have just dimensions 1 to 3, or 5 to 3 if they are in the Mirror Tetraspace. If taken from one Tetraspace to the other, they simply change their nature to fit the new dimensions. Living mortal creatures have all dimensions 1 to 4. They are not able to perceive their 4th dimension, but they can somehow "draw" upon this dimension to cast magic or to use magical effects, in different ways. This ability can be reflected in magical special abilities, in psionics, or in the skill to learn Arcane Magic. Priests are granted the ability to cast Divine Magic by their divine protectors. In the Mirror dimension this becomes living in dimensions 2 to 5, but being unable to perceive the 2nd, with almost the identical skill to cast magic. If a living mortal creature passes from one Tetraspace to another, it suffers great pain during the transit, because it must change all its dimensional physical nature. Mortals can attain Immortality, which means that they discover how to use some of their 4th dimensional abilities and become able to perceive it. Immortals and Athanatoi exist at levels 1 to 4, and are able to use some of their 4th dimensional abilities, and to perceive all of it. Immortality is thus just a major stage of evolution of mortality, however it is very difficult to attain. Immortals can cross the boundary between the Tetraspaces. They too suffer the dimensional change; moreover, in the other Tetraspace they lose their Immortal status, because here they are simply mortal, not having learned to use their 2nd dimension in Mirror Shape (or viceversa, if crossing to Normal from Mirror). Returning to their home Tetraspace allow them to regain their Immortal status. Athanatoi, on the other hand, cannot cross the boundary (only with a mortal manifestation of their power - this is an Avatar in AD&D 2E Game, or a Mortal Form in D&D Immortals Rules). True Gods and Mirror Gods exist in all 5 the dimensions, however they have been permanently cut off their 5th dimension when the two Tetraspaces were generated (maybe by the Old Ones, but who knows? Surely not the True Gods). There is no way for them to regain the lost dimension, but they can perceive and use fully all their 4-dimensional skills, and this explains their powers in the Tetraspace. Contrarily to all the above-mentioned creatures, they cannot cross the boundary between a Tetraspace and the other; however, they could, with a terrible expense of power, cross directly the Inner Vortex from a Multiverse to the other (although they really do not have the need to do so, as thay usually keep at least an Immortal Identity in each Multiverse). A True God's Immortal Identity, however, can pass into the Mirror Tetraspace (see above). Ulterior Ones exist in all five dimensions, but have been "cut away" from one of their "inner" dimensions (that means 2,3 or 4), separating part of their essence in one of the Tetraspaces and one in the other. This has prevented them to be the only living creatures still able to live in both Tetraspaces simultaneously, something that would give them total control over the Cosmos. The Athanatoi, True Gods and Mirror Gods are responsible of this imprisonment, but the fact that it is not "natural" could mean that one day or another the Ulterior Ones may eventually have the upper hand over the powers that bind them and regain their complete freedom...and thus dominate the Cosmos... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 02:47:33 +0100 From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: R:[MYSTARA] More ideas on elven city Hello Ville (and Geoff) i'm using your ideas about the hidden elven city right now in my campaign :- ) The PC are in Denagoth, in a spionistic mission to prepare the elven crusade (some of them are elves and now is 1013 IMC) and that evening they bought from a denagothian merchant an ancient elven suit of armour who was recognized by a NPC travelling with them (the NPC is an elf and one of the original adventurers who defeated Landryk) as the suit of the king of Lothenar. The suit kept safe for many years the soul of the king dead in the war, who obviously spoke with them.. and told them to find his son, the son who betrayed him and his people... to find him in Magh Elsendil (the name i'll use for the hidden city.. you had some other name in mind ?). That evening we played only 'till this encounter... Then i think i'll change a little your timeline..that will be the story IMC: some years before the year 900 ac when the shadow of a war began to gather upon Lothenar, the king send his son, his daughter and many of his people to a hidden vale in the western mountains, with some dwarven architects and artisans to build a great fortress and preserve the strenght of his kingdom.. his sons went and builded the city, but they never come back to aid Lothenar when Landryk conquered it in 907 ac... anyway when the human warrior (Henadin) came to the city, the king's son remembered his pledge and secretly fight with him in the battle where Landryk was killed in 909 ac, but in the same battle the prince died. Henadin returned to Magh Elsendil to give the body of the prince to his sister and his people, but the princess, in love with the human hero, kept Henadin in the city, fearing to lose him as she lose her brother. So the forest of Lothenar was never reclaimed by the elves, and Landryk returned from death to start a new war... nowadays the PC probably will find the city, they will find the hero Henadin, kept young by the elven princess' magic, and they will have to persuade her to let Henadin go out of the city, to aid the elves in their crusade... or maybe they will be kept in the city and they'll have to find a way to escape, maybe with Henadin too.. i'll see... well, i think that was the quicker way from an adventure proposed on the MML to playing it : - ) you wrote it in the afternoon and i played it in the evening : - ) Thanks : - ) bye Francesco "What can change the nature of a man ?" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:03:36 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: R:[MYSTARA] More ideas on elven city > who betrayed him and his people... to find him in Magh Elsendil (the name > i'll use for the hidden city.. you had some other name in mind ?). I was planning to use Anglond - using Tolkien's elvish vocabulary, that would translate roughly into Iron Haven or Iron Refuge. My ideas for the city include a central fortress or tower of iron, which may or may not have already been in the valley when the elves arrived. They then built the city around it, but the region would come to have the same name as the structure. I've got a few NPCs in rough form, and some ideas as to what is in the vallley, but not much more at this time. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:43:28 -0800 From: Tim Huntley Subject: Which Immortal to use? Hi! Newbie to the list here. I apologize for those who read a similar post on the WoTC Mystara board; it appears there are more readers here. Anyway, I will soon be starting a new Mystaran campaign. The characters are going to be starting very low level, and going from there. They will be starting in a small village (based on The Village Poisson on WoTC's "Map of the Week" area) and will discover after numerous hits and attacks on their village a Bhut settlement not too far away (based on The Haunted Village on WoTC's "Matp of the Week" area.) The Bhut will be the common, re-occuring villans plaguing them throughout their careers. So, I am pretty much overhauling the Bhut. I am going to create Lesser and Greater Bhut, to get them started against the Bhut early, and keep them going long after they are shredding the normal Bhuts. But here is my issue; I would like the new and improved Bhuts to have a patron Immortal. This Immortal would have to be an Immortal of Chaos, because that's what I am considering the Bhuts - creatures of chaos. I have been looking through all the Immortals listed in Wrath of the Immortals, but I can't seem to find one that fits. The closest *I* have found is Jammudaru, who was cursed to become a slimy monster. That part fits with the Bhut, save the slimy part. But Jammudaru has a srong sense of revenge, so I have been told, and that's not what I see in my Bhuts. Can anyone steer me in the direction of an Immortal that fits what I have described? Or should I just make one up? Thanks, Tim. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:52:16 +0200 From: Thibault SARLAT Subject: elven city name hello Geoff feel free to name the city as you want Geoff, but keep in mind that Iron = is not generally associated with "haven". It is a much more constraining m= aterial. Keep also in mind that the suffix "lond" goes with a port...which is not = the case here. i believe we should work with the following roots (but i am sure i forgot= many): Bar (mbar) =3D house, hold Nar, Naur =3D fire,( for the reddish color of the iron tower against the = sunlight) narya, caran, =3D rouge cul =3D golden ruin, runya =3D flame til =3D crest, high peak (suffix) and many others too i'll look into it these days. thib ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 14 Jan 2002 to 15 Jan 2002 (#2002-16) ***************************************************************