Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 16 Jan 2002 to 17 Jan 2002 (#2002-18) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 18/01/2002, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 10 messages totalling 368 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Some ideas on the lost elven city (2) 2. Which Immortal to use? 3. elven city name (2) 4. R: Re: [MYSTARA] Some ideas on the lost elven city (2) 5. A Complete Guide to the Cosmos - Dangerous Ds 6. R: Re: [MYSTARA] Some ideas on the lost elven city 7. Thorarinn Gunnarson ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 02:16:55 -0800 From: Herve Musseau Subject: Re: Some ideas on the lost elven city From: "Ville V Lahde" > (Note: The dwarves would give the elves the ability to construct their mountain refuge, and give access to the Gondolinesque weapons. Of course in Silmarillion dwarves didn't have anything to do with Gondolin, but they are a good substitute for the craftiness of the noldor elves, who have no equivalent in Mystara.) Alternatively, gnomes could be used instead of dwarves. Gnomes are underused in Mystara, especially in the KW. Back in AC 500, if you follow the DL trilogy, they had a city near Wendar and were more present in the KW, but the city was destroyed. Their other prominent stronghold, the Falun caverns in the NR, was also destroyed, by kobolds (though I don't remember the date), making the gnomes rare in the KW. Some may have moved north, and possibly associated with the Lothenar elves at that time, as they too may have been seeking for a safe haven, a retreat. ===== ___________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau http://www.geocities.com/hmusseau/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:28:44 -0500 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Which Immortal to use? Dan Eustace wrote: > > Masterful! > Are you somehow schooled in RW Hindu culture, or did all of this just come > to you? As I said, I used the Sindhi names provided by Solmyr (I later checked the web page address, so credits where credits are due). Other than that, since Ixion's aspects are clearly modeled over the RW Brahma-Siva-Visnu triad, as three positive elements of life, I just tried to map the Immortals provided by Solmyr as an opposite, negative triad. The rest came by itself... As for my knowledge of Hindu culture, it is lower than one might think, and totally informal :) However, if you speak French, this academic website (from computer science people!) has an interesting sanskrit-french dictionary: http://pauillac.inria.fr/~huet/SKT/index.html Looking for Bhut (with a - over the 'u'), you'll find Bhuta, which may mean "living being", "genie", or "element/substance" (as in the 5 elements). It is the past participle of a verb meaning "to become". Since the D&D Bhut do "change" quite often, the name is quite appropriate :) Now, it is noted that in RW India sacrifices were done to appease the spirits (bhutayajna). It is possible that, before the great crusade against the shapechangers, similar sacrifices were held in Sind for the Bhut. Or, the Bhut themselves might associate a religious significance to their nocturnal "activities". Another note of interest: Jammudaru might mean "The Devourer" (jam==to eat, jamat==eater). And, just to spice up a Sindhi campaign, here are some names from the same dictionary Some supernatural/mythic creatures not present under the sanskrit name in AD&D: yaksa chtonian genies (dao?) vidyadhara djinn vetala vampire (or perhaps ghoul) preta ghost (or perhaps revenant) vamana dwarf gandharva centaur daitya demon danava undine/marid The five elements (very D&D-like, luckily :) ) akaça ether vayu air tejas fire ap water prthivi earth > Either way, it is quite good. You took a basic question and turned it into > something really interesting - now I want to add this version of bhuts into > MC. Wow, great! Thanks for the appreciation! > The last time I used them, I think was in X4, many years ago. Yes, me too. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:28:59 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: elven city name Agathokles wrote: > Still, it sounds awkward, like many Quenya words. Anglond, OTOH, would > sound Angalondë. Not that bad :) Hey, cool! Thanks! :-) Incidentally, what sources do you use to make sense of the language? I've been using the Silmarillion and the Appendix in LOTR. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:30:44 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Some ideas on the lost elven city Herve wrote: > > Alternatively, gnomes could be used instead of dwarves. Gnomes are underused in > Mystara, especially in the KW. Back in AC 500, if you follow the DL trilogy, > they had a city near Wendar and were more present in the KW, but the city was > destroyed. Their other prominent stronghold, the Falun caverns in the NR, was > also destroyed, by kobolds (though I don't remember the date), making the > gnomes rare in the KW. Some may have moved north, and possibly associated with > the Lothenar elves at that time, as they too may have been seeking for a safe > haven, a retreat. Hmm...it would provide an answer to the question of what happened to the gnomes of Torkyn Falls. This could certainly be used. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:41:33 -0500 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: elven city name Geoff Gander wrote: > >> Still, it sounds awkward, like many Quenya words. Anglond, OTOH, would >> sound Angalondë. Not that bad :) > > Hey, cool! Thanks! :-) You're welcome :) > Incidentally, what sources do you use to make sense of the language? I've > been using the Silmarillion and the Appendix in LOTR. Uhm, you should use the Book of Lost Tales, it has a glossary of Quenya and Noldor. However, for ease of use, I keep some files with Quenya and Sindarin wordlists and grammar. The ones I use were from some website I'm not able to trace back (I downloaded them some three or four years ago), but this site seems to have extensive references: http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/ -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:56:20 +0100 From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: R: Re: [MYSTARA] Some ideas on the lost elven city Hello, who were the gnomes of Torkyn Falls ? were they mentioned in some canon product ? and if so which product ? there are canon or not canon resources about them somewhere ? i used some gnomes IMC in Denagoth some days ago, they lived in the forest of Geffron with the last Geffronells... but any other information can be useful to me, thanks. bye Francesco "What can change the nature of a man ?" -----Messaggio Originale----- Da: "Geoff Gander" A: Data invio: giovedì 17 gennaio 2002 15.30 Oggetto: Re: [MYSTARA] Some ideas on the lost elven city > Hmm...it would provide an answer to the question of what happened to the > gnomes of Torkyn Falls. This could certainly be used. > > Geoff ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:15:38 +0100 From: la Volpe Subject: A Complete Guide to the Cosmos - Dangerous Ds A COMPLETE GUIDE TO THE COSMOS - DANGEROUS Ds DISCONTIGUATES When the Ulterior Ones fought against the True Gods and the Mirror Gods at the Battle of Birth of Universes, they were helped by their servants, four-dimensional beings that had been generated without the proper conception of continual dimensionality...when the two Tetraspaces were separated, they continued to exist in both, although partly, because they were just four-dimensional. They could have dimensions 1-3 and 5, or 1-2 and 4-5, or whatever weird combination. Among the servitors of the Ulterior Ones, there were even those of dimensions 1-4 or 2-5, thus dimensionally similar to their enemies' servitors. After their masters' defeat, they continued to exist with their impossible dimensions; moreover, the Ulterior Ones retained the power to create other Discontiguates, like they are called because they do not have a "normal progression of dimensions". Discontiguates with dimensions 1 and 5 are extremely powerful, because they can draw upon dimensions that neither the True nor Mirror Gods can reach, and are the "right hands" of the Ulterior Ones. Other Discontiguates may be less dangerous, but are weird and extremely unnatural creatures of the Cosmos. A Discontiguate exist simultaneously in the Mirror and Normal Tetraspace, and this is really a weird feature: they cannot cross the boundary between the two Tetraspaces simply because there is no boundary for them. They can, as an example, use an object in the Prime Plane while seeing a Malphera eating in the Nightmare Dimension... DRAEDEN Draeden are among the strangest races of the Cosmos, and they are, along with Dragons, the first race born in the Cosmos. Draeden became Mirror Creatures when the two Tetraspaces were separated, but they didn't side with any group of Gods during the Battle. The reasons for this behavior and their strange relationship with Dragons will be analyzed later on. They are 4-dimensional beings of dimensions 2-5, but they may be encountered in the Outer Planes of the Normal Tetraspace. DRAGONS Dragons are a complex and mighty race, among the most important of the Multiverse. Dragons and Draeden were the two first true races of creatures that were born in the Cosmos, because Gods were the expression of the Thoughts of the Cosmos, while Athanatoi and Discontiguates were servants created by the Gods themselves. Dragons are Normal creatures existing in dimensions 1-4, but when they are born they are dimly aware of the existance of the 4th dimension, and this already shows their difference between the other mortal races. Dragons live long lives, starting as hatchlings, growing up to become wyrms, and during their evolution they become more and more attuned to their 4th dimension of existance; this increase in power, skill and awareness is determined by hatching and by the Ceremonies of Sublimation; through these, in time, Dragons may grow to almost fully dominate their fourth dimension, up to the point of becoming immortal creatures that can prove dangerous even to the Athanatoi; very few among them can grow so powerful to even rival the True Gods. The evolution is natural and normal for the Dragon race, although Immortals and mortals alike, unable to understand this process, generally think of Dragons (dragons that are still of wyrm age or below) and Guardian Dragons or Dragon Immortals (those of immortal level and above), considering them somehow part of their divine hierarchies. The true nature of Dragons and their role in the Battle of the Birth of Universes will be discussed later. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:07:56 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: R: Re: [MYSTARA] Some ideas on the lost elven city Francesco wrote: > Hello, > who were the gnomes of Torkyn Falls ? were they mentioned in some canon > product ? and if so which product ? there are canon or not canon resources > about them somewhere ? They were mentioned in the Dragonlord trilogy of novels, written by the dubious Thorarin Gunnarsson (who, it later turned out, was a fraud, but that's another story...). Not much info was given about the gnomes themselves, but they had a considerable delving in the mountains between Glantri and Wendar (IIRC, that was the location). Unfortunately, I don't have the third book, so I don't know if anything else was said about them. Aside from that, they are not mentioned anywhere else, AFAIK. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 22:11:14 +0000 From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: R: Re: [MYSTARA] Some ideas on the lost elven city > They were mentioned in the Dragonlord trilogy of novels, written by the > dubious Thorarin Gunnarsson (who, it later turned out, was a fraud, but > that's another story...). What do you mean ??? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:23:52 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Thorarinn Gunnarson Bleakcabal wrote: > > What do you mean ??? The whole story is at the following URL: http://www.thuntek.net/hardmag/thorinn.htm Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 16 Jan 2002 to 17 Jan 2002 (#2002-18) ***************************************************************