Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 31 Jul 2002 to 3 Aug 2002 (#2002-199) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 04/08/2002, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 2 messages totalling 97 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Revisionist Atlantis for Myth/Laterre (2) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 01:11:37 -0400 From: David Knott Subject: Re: Revisionist Atlantis for Myth/Laterre From: "la Volpe" > The ideas are cool, but be warned of what you write, > because a lot of people may not be too happy to have > their religions described as myths in a fantasy > setting or to have real-world political views put on > the plate. > Personally I don't mind, I am not accusing you of > anything nor trying to discourage you, but be warned, > though. On the political side, the only political views my work would directly attack would be totalitarianism in general and Nazi racial attitudes in particular -- hopefully a safe target half a century after World War II. On the religious side, it would be more to the point to say that regardless of the truth or falsehood of the Biblical accounts of the Flood and the Tower of Babel in the real world, those tales are factually true on the world of Myth/Laterre, as are many other tales that are known to other real world cultures and that may or may not be factually true in the real world. It would be completely beside the point to make direct statements about which tales are factually true and which tales are fiction in our real world since no adventures would be set in our real world. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 01:30:05 -0400 From: David Knott Subject: Re: Revisionist Atlantis for Myth/Laterre From: "Geoff Gander" > > Hmm....have you ever read "Khai of Ancient Khem" by Brian Lumley? > Although it have some loose connections with the Lovecraftian universe, it > is centred around the trials faced by a heroic figure in the land of Khem, > which is situated where Egypt would arise (and before northern Africa > dried out). Not the best work of fiction I've ever read, but there are some > useful tidbits about culture and such that might help. No, but I am sure that I saw references to it or to similar material -- I would not otherwise have come up with the name "Khem". > Interesting piece, though! Did you mainly use Timaeus and Critias? I'd > like to see more! Yes, Plato's dialogs were my primary source. I tried to find other sources but quickly discovered that none existed, at least in terms of supporting any sort of factual existence for Atlantis. Since the Egyptians (the supposed ultimate source of Plato's accounts) have no records of a civilization resembling the Atlantis described by Plato, the only reasonable conclusion to reach is that Plato made it up from whole cloth. However, since the world of Myth/Laterre is one where the myths of our real world are true (along with as much true history as is compatible with those myths), I decided to posit that Atlantis actually existed there at the time and place stated by Plato. How- ever, given what we know of the city-states of Athens and Sparta in the days of Socrates and Plato along with their evident admiration for Sparta at the expense of their native Athens, I had no choice but to hold their political philosophies (and thus their judgments of the relative merits of Atlantis and ancient Athens) highly suspect while accepting the "facts" they gave as accurate for Myth/Laterre. Thus, instead of the common vision of a heroic prehistoric Athens defending itself against the odds from conquest by the militaristic Atlanteans, I came up with an alternative vision of the Atlanteans motivated to intervene militarily in the Mediterranean region by a desire to liberate its natives from enslavement by the Aryans/ Athenians (partly for idealistic reasons, and partly because they preferred the free primitive tribes of western Europe over their Aryan conquerors as more profitable trading partners). Clearly the Atlanteans suffered some sort of military disaster as they attempted to conquer the Aryan/Athenian capital, and just as clearly the Aryans/Athenians were unable to capitalize fully on their victory (since the material provided by Plato leaves the fate of western Europe unclear but definitely gives no indication that the Aryans/Athenians were able to conquer Atlantis itself). Thus, the most likely conclusion is that Atlantis and the Aryans ended up in a military stalemate that continued until a cataclysm destroyed both of their civilizations. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 31 Jul 2002 to 3 Aug 2002 (#2002-199) ***************************************************************