Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 5 Aug 2002 to 6 Aug 2002 (#2002-202) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 07/08/2002, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 6 messages totalling 316 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. error in Norwold entries?? (2) 2. useful magic (2) 3. VS: [MYSTARA] Magic and Society 4. Undead and invisibility ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 01:53:50 -0700 From: Herve Musseau Subject: Re: error in Norwold entries?? From: Thibault Sarlat > > while consulting the entries for norwold domains to feed up my mapping of the > region, i spotted what could be a big error. > The map made for 1015 shows a very big Leeha domain while the entries only > mention two 24 miles hexes.. (or eighteen 8 miles hexes) > > plus the population given for leeha is only 6700... > it's small compared to the neighbouring duchy of Kameloth...(pop: 19 000) > > What do you think of it??? Well, it goes back to when Ericall was named King of Norwold by Empress Eriadna. At the time he was deluded into thinking that he was actually king of the whole region, and that everybody answered to his rule. Even though Helskir always refused to bow to him, as did others, he kept that delusion for a long time. Among those that didn't really accept Ericall's rulership, but did it with diplomacy, were the hin of Leeha. Officially, on the maps at Alpha, the city of Leeha and its dependences, an area of two hexes, were marked as a dominion of Ericall's Kingdom of Norwold, ruled by a hin governor. Neither side insisted on the fact that the hin givernor was actually the Sheriff of Leeha, that he actually ruled indepentently of human interference (he even raised tolls on Ericall's ships passing through), or that the area populated by hin and hin-ruled is actually much larger, or that Leehashire is actually only one shire of several. Both sides were content with keeping that semblance of vassalization and actual independence and self-rule. Eventually, though, Ericall had to recognize (and especially admit to himself) that he didn't rule much beyond Alpha itself. The brutality and reality of the thinness of his rulership came into plain sight during the Great War, when several of his vassals betrayed him and sided with Thyatis or clinged to neutrality in the conflict. After the sinking, some more of them broke their vassalage, and the Heldannic Order conquered large swaths of Norwold with Ericall unable to prevent it. At that time, since many petty dominions ceased to recognize Ericall as their king, so did the hin stop this charade. Besides, unlike the Shiye elves, the hin are at least willing to cooperate and trade with Alpha, so this isn't so bad for Ericall. Thus, the true borders of the hin settlements were drawn on the maps of Norwold, and they are clearly noted as independent, with their own form of government what with shires, sheriffs and such. Even though most maps have been updated, some legacies of the Kingdom of Norwold era still pop up in some (human) writings. One of these is that the reported area is often lesser than it truly is, as it is often the size of Leehashire only that is reported (2 hexes) instead of that of the sum of all shires. Another such legacy is that the area is generally refered to as Leeha, although Leeha is actually only one among several shires. In other words, the map is correct and the text is wrong. But now you have a nice in-character explanation as to why. :) (Better than "uh-oh we screw up", eh? If something's wrong in Norwold, just blame it on Ericall!) ===== ___________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau http://www.geocities.com/hmusseau/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 11:05:13 +0200 From: Thibault Sarlat Subject: Re: error in Norwold entries?? be assured that your map of the leeha shire IS my primary material for the region of Leeha. I might send you my draft for your advice. thanks very much Thibault Sarlat. ICQ 16622177. homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st Join me at:thibault.sarlat@wanadoo.fr;clenarius@hotmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Eustace" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 6:10 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] error in Norwold entries?? > I think the listed area is too small. Leehashire is obviously larger than > two 24 mile hexes. I would say the correct area would be ~9000-10,000 sq. > miles (18-20 hexes). The 998 sq. miles is a holdover from the PWA's. The > hin are, however, sparsely populated (I think the latest pop. is 6700), but > in general, listed populations are quite low, IMO. I don't know much about > Kameloth, but humans generally propagate much more quickly than demi-humans. > There may be some additional explanation in the MA for Kameloth's growth. > If you're updating NW's maps, check out my Leehashire map at the Vaults. > The neighboring lands don't coincide with the MA, but the hin clanholds do. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thibault Sarlat" > To: > Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 6:59 AM > Subject: [MYSTARA] error in Norwold entries?? > > > while consulting the entries for norwold domains to feed up my mapping of > the region, i spotted what could be a big error. > The map made for 1015 shows a very big Leeha domain while the entries only > mention two 24 miles hexes.. (or eighteen 8 miles hexes) > > plus the population given for leeha is only 6700... > it's small compared to the neighbouring duchy of Kameloth...(pop: 19 000) > > What do you think of it??? > > > Thibault Sarlat. > ICQ 16622177. > homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st > Join me at:thibault.sarlat@wanadoo.fr;clenarius@hotmail.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 19:53:47 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Re: useful magic -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Angelo Bertolli Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 12:00 AM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: [MYSTARA] useful magic > I know that it's more fun to have fireballs and invisibility, and haste > spells in a combat-oriented game, but has it ever bothered anyone that > Wizard magic is so geared towards combat ONLY? I mean wouldn't it make > sense that spell casters (esp wizards) would be out making spells to make > life easier, produce things, etc? Yup. I have been working on such an idea myself, and I plan on developing my ideas a bit more this week. If your interested on what I have in mind, I can post them here. > If anyone is interested in compiling a "Practical Magic" document involving > practical non-combat magic... email me at abertoll@hotmail.com with any > ideas/spells you have. Id personally like to see a discussion on such a topic here, as it would allow people to post Mystara specific ideas that people can read about. IMC, magic is divided into Arcane Magic and Divine magic as broad categories, and divided by my games inhabitants into such areas as "Commercial Magic", "Battle Magic", "Information Magic" and "Security Magic" to name a few. > What I plan to do is get as many suggestions as possible and we can all vote > on spell level, details, etc. before we put it together. I can't offer specifics since I used AD&D 2E rules for my campaign, but here are some items I used in last Saturdays game: Rockhome: Sound burst Grenade Explosive Grenade AMP Grenade All of which are sold by the dwarves to its trading partners for a nice profit. The PCs didn't even know that such items existed until two dwarven NPCs lobbed a pair of Sound burst grenades into a tightly packed bunch of orcs. They where nicely surprised to say the least. :) I am working on some ideas of Magic used in Karameikos for commercial purposes that I plan on showing my PCs soon... George ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 19:53:47 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Re: VS: [MYSTARA] Magic and Society > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On > Behalf Of macnerd > Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 1:41 PM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] VS: [MYSTARA] Magic and Society > Macnerd, > Can you give an overview of the world & city spells used in > the games you > mentioned (MOM, Warlords, AOW)? > Id be interested in reading about them, as its something I > plan on covering > in my Magic & Society email. > George >> However, I had a problem because my Master's and Magic CD got >> busted and Microprose doesn't give a cr@#. >> I'll get a list out. It'll take some work, but I think it'll >> be valuable. I think Mystara has some good points to create >> war, merchant, political campaigns and perhaps a combination >> of them all in additional as individual character development. Where you able to make the list? George ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 19:57:19 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Re: useful magic -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Geoff Gander Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 2:47 PM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] useful magic > Basically these would likely be the equivalent of D&D cantrips, > but they were all 1st level, and highly innocuous. I highly recommend using the skill based Cantrip proficiency as found in the Dragon Magazine September 95 article "The little Wish". So far my PCs have used it to create water to drink, create a small rain cloud to clean a PC that was covered in Gargoyle blood (and to dry him off after words), and to determine if a permanent teleport portal was open or closed. As they get a hang of using Cantrips, I am sure they will come up with other uses. George ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 20:04:36 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Re: Undead and invisibility -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Ville V Lahde Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 7:53 AM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: [MYSTARA] Undead and invisibility > So, back to the original question: Can powerful undead, spectres in this > case, notice an invisible person who moves around silently? > If it was just a case of illusionary hiding, I'd say no. Many undead, like > skeletons, have NO EYES, thus, no regular sight. Perhaps they sense the > precense of life and are drawn to it. Perhaps some of them smell blood. > Whatever. In any case, they would sense an invisible person. In my AD&D 2E game, I rule that all undead can "sense life" and thus can detect any living being in their "senses" range (what ever the GM needs at the movement for dramatic story telling purpose). So they can detect a living creature that is invisible. Now, if said living creature was operating under the Invisibility to Undead spell, that is a different story. George ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 5 Aug 2002 to 6 Aug 2002 (#2002-202) **************************************************************