Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 15 Aug 2002 to 16 Aug 2002 (#2002-212) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 17/08/2002, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 10 messages totalling 560 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Languages? (4) 2. A Deadlier World (was: Enchanting Armor) (3) 3. VS: The BEST combat system (3) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:37:58 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: Re: Languages? On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Kar Ess wrote: > Has anyone compiled a listing of the languages in Mystara. You know: > > Nation Language Race Era > > Was thinking a table would be a good thing to give starting players. > This would be a good project. I think "Monster dialects" should be allowed, since the ages old languages table in the Basic Set DM Book is clearly obsolete. "Orcs of Thar" for example was pretty clear in that there is no Common Orc, just various dialects, some of which might even have nothing in common. You might have language skills like "Northern Reaches kobold", "NR gnoll", "Broken lands troll", "Mengul orc" etc. Ville ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 11:41:08 +0200 From: Jacob Skytte Subject: A Deadlier World (was: Enchanting Armor) This thread got me thinking. I must admit that I sometimes get tired of = combat dragging out, but I know where to place the blame: Hit points. = Combat soon becomes a drag because you fence around for awhile, somebody = scores a hit, and, yay, 10% of the hit points were lost (on a good day). = Now to make the system a lot more deadly, I don't want to go out and get = (or write) another rules system, or devise a bunch of critical tables or = something like that. I'll just reduce hit points. I was thinking of something like gaining more hit points at every level = that is a multiple of 3. In return you'd get to roll for hit points all = the way to 36th level (yes, I'm talking OD&D here). Demi-humans will = gain extra hit points at Attack Ranks as well (never made any sense to = me that they stopped gaining hp, while humans kept advancing). Now, a = few hits will decide a battle and my players won't feel like powerhouses = at 7th level. Also makes the defensive Weapon Mastery options (such as = deflect) essential to survival, and so should give Fighters a little = boost in that department. As for the offensive aspects of Weapon Mastery, now a Grand Master = probably _will_ kill if he/she hits, and a Fighter with 3-4 = attacks/round _will_ have your head in a round, which is quite fine by = me. There will still be a serious distinction between high- and low-level = characters, the low-level ones will fall like flies, which is as it = should be, but the high-level (well, perhaps not highest-level fighters, = but those are already near-Immortals ;)) one can now be brought down by = numbers (something that's virtually impossible with the current system). Obviously, direct damage spells will kill characters outright, which = would tend to be bad, so I think I'd place a much lower cap on the = number of dice allowed by a given direct dam spell. That would make a = low-level Magic-User the equivalent of a high-level one when it comes to = damage dealing, leaving the distinction at number of spells and access = to a wider range of spells at higher levels. Now, in a battle between a = Magic-User and a Fighter, initiative will probably decide who gets to = live, and a high-level Magic-User will actually have a chance of killing = a (relatively) high-level Fighter with direct dam. And I probably shouldn't even mention the boost to a thief's = backstabbing ability... It will probably screw the balance (as it is) between classes no matter = what I do, but how much? This would make for a far deadlier world without changing a lot of = rules, something that I wouldn't be averse to at all. A world where a = 10th level Fighter should be worried that those 10 orcs he's facing = might actually kill him if they manage to score 3-4 hits. My players = will probably hate me, but I think I'll try it out. Comments? Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 08:52:03 -0400 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: VS: The BEST combat system Ashaktur wrote: > Aside from adding a little more "realism" to combats, my players had endless > fun seeing what criticals they could score on their opponents. My hat goes > off to the good people of ICE for the amusing critical results. Such a shame > that ICE lost their Lord of the Rings licence just before the movies came > out ... :) Brings back memories of playing Rolemaster. I always found that, when you rolled your crit, a result in the mid-60s, while not always the most damaging, was almost invariably the most gruesome, and the most fun to read. I also have fond memories (now, not while I was playing the game - I hated them then) of the critical fumbles - "Trip over an imaginary turtle, lose attack next round. Nice job." Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 16:23:34 +0300 From: Eyal Fleminger Subject: Re: Languages? I compiled a similiar list; I'll put it up on my website shortly > From: Kar Ess > Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: [MYSTARA] Languages? > Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 19:01:46 -0700 > > Has anyone compiled a listing of the languages in Mystara. You know: > > Nation Language Race Era > > Was thinking a table would be a good thing to give starting players. > > KS > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs > http://www.hotjobs.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 16:26:52 +0300 From: Eyal Fleminger Subject: Re: VS: The BEST combat system I considerd writing something like that, and never found the time. Could yoe send me a copy? Thx > From: Saarela Sami > Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: [MYSTARA] VS: The BEST combat system > Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 08:41:57 +0300 > > Hi, > > Coming out of lurk-mode... > > I use the ICE system for my Mystara campaign, and I wouldn't have it any > other way. IMO the O/ADD combat system is too simplistic and doesn't give > true chance a break. Meaning when a, say, 10th level fighter meets a band > of > orcs (goblins, kobolds etc.) he doesn't really have to be concerned. The > fighter would need to roll abysmally badly for so long it is practically > statistically impossible. In the ICE system the situation is pretty much > similar, but things _can_ go very wrong with only a one or two bad (or good > for the opposition) dice rolls. This, i think, makes the players, and their > characters, a bit more cautious. My players generally try to solve things > with minimal violence. (Although the group does have 2 pretty trigger-happy > characters, or should that be hilt-happy.) > > But, unfortunately, George is absolutely right in the amount of charts and > wading through them can be a real turn-off for some players (and GMs) in > the > heat of combat. I don't recommend the ICE system to anyone who is > comfortable with the DD system. Bbut if you consider the DD system too > simplistic, abstract and unrealistic, then I can wholeheartedly recommend > the most realistic melee combat system. > > I do have to confess, that even I _hate_ cross checking the charts in > combat, because it really can bog you down. That's why I use a computer > while gaming. A nice little excel-sheet does all that table crunching for > me > and the combat runs fast enough (about 5-10mins RW-time for a 2min combat). > This is what computer were created for! For an unexperienced GM (and I mean > unexperienced in chart-wading) without CAC (Computer Aided Combat) the > 2h/10mins that George mentions sounds about right. > > > - Sami > > > PS. > George, I don't quite understand what you meant with "rating the weapons" > and having "to write a graduate thesis on weapons". Could you please > clarify. > > > > -----Alkuperäinen viesti----- > Lähettäjä: George Hrabovsky > Aihe: Re: [MYSTARA] The BEST combat system > > Too bad the ICE system is too inflexible to be used without extensive > background work. You need to rate weapons for size of the creature, and I > would rather not have to write a graduate thesis on weapons in order to use > a system. The number of charts is bewildering to say the least. I ran the > system for a Middle Earth-based game some years ago and after a few months > went to something that was simpler. Spending two hours on a ten minute > fight > just didn't cut it for us. > > George > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 06:34:34 -0700 From: Kar Ess Subject: Re: Languages? Thanks, send your URL, please KS --- Eyal Fleminger wrote: > I compiled a similiar list; I'll put it up on my website shortly > > > >From: Kar Ess > >Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion > >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > >Subject: [MYSTARA] Languages? > >Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 19:01:46 -0700 > > > >Has anyone compiled a listing of the languages in Mystara. You know: __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:24:31 -0500 From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: VS: The BEST combat system Sure I can clarify. All the weapon charts are designed for man-sized weapons. They have fudge factors for larger/smaller; but they don't make any sense. If you increase the size of the weapon by ten percent you increase the striking surface by more than 10% based upon the geometry of the weapon. This gets very complicated very quickly. I don't mind complicated math, being a theoretical physicist, but most people would be turned off by it. The same it true of weapon material, the change in volume and density causes the weight and balance of a weapon to change; the effect being that the center of mass changes so that the weapon strikes differently. All of a sudden you have a system written for humans sized weapons that is very realistic and much less so for anyone else. That's what I meant. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saarela Sami" To: Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 12:41 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] VS: The BEST combat system > Hi, > > Coming out of lurk-mode... > > I use the ICE system for my Mystara campaign, and I wouldn't have it any > other way. IMO the O/ADD combat system is too simplistic and doesn't give > true chance a break. Meaning when a, say, 10th level fighter meets a band of > orcs (goblins, kobolds etc.) he doesn't really have to be concerned. The > fighter would need to roll abysmally badly for so long it is practically > statistically impossible. In the ICE system the situation is pretty much > similar, but things _can_ go very wrong with only a one or two bad (or good > for the opposition) dice rolls. This, i think, makes the players, and their > characters, a bit more cautious. My players generally try to solve things > with minimal violence. (Although the group does have 2 pretty trigger-happy > characters, or should that be hilt-happy.) > > But, unfortunately, George is absolutely right in the amount of charts and > wading through them can be a real turn-off for some players (and GMs) in the > heat of combat. I don't recommend the ICE system to anyone who is > comfortable with the DD system. Bbut if you consider the DD system too > simplistic, abstract and unrealistic, then I can wholeheartedly recommend > the most realistic melee combat system. > > I do have to confess, that even I _hate_ cross checking the charts in > combat, because it really can bog you down. That's why I use a computer > while gaming. A nice little excel-sheet does all that table crunching for me > and the combat runs fast enough (about 5-10mins RW-time for a 2min combat). > This is what computer were created for! For an unexperienced GM (and I mean > unexperienced in chart-wading) without CAC (Computer Aided Combat) the > 2h/10mins that George mentions sounds about right. > > > - Sami > > > PS. > George, I don't quite understand what you meant with "rating the weapons" > and having "to write a graduate thesis on weapons". Could you please > clarify. > > > > -----Alkuperäinen viesti----- > Lähettäjä: George Hrabovsky > Aihe: Re: [MYSTARA] The BEST combat system > > Too bad the ICE system is too inflexible to be used without extensive > background work. You need to rate weapons for size of the creature, and I > would rather not have to write a graduate thesis on weapons in order to use > a system. The number of charts is bewildering to say the least. I ran the > system for a Middle Earth-based game some years ago and after a few months > went to something that was simpler. Spending two hours on a ten minute fight > just didn't cut it for us. > > George > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:53:01 -0500 From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: A Deadlier World (was: Enchanting Armor) I also allowed first level characters to gain weapon proficiency. They still had to roll for it and if they failed they lost the proficiency slot. This allows first level fighters to be skilled in two weapons right off the bat. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacob Skytte" To: Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 4:41 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] A Deadlier World (was: Enchanting Armor) This thread got me thinking. I must admit that I sometimes get tired of combat dragging out, but I know where to place the blame: Hit points. Combat soon becomes a drag because you fence around for awhile, somebody scores a hit, and, yay, 10% of the hit points were lost (on a good day). Now to make the system a lot more deadly, I don't want to go out and get (or write) another rules system, or devise a bunch of critical tables or something like that. I'll just reduce hit points. I was thinking of something like gaining more hit points at every level that is a multiple of 3. In return you'd get to roll for hit points all the way to 36th level (yes, I'm talking OD&D here). Demi-humans will gain extra hit points at Attack Ranks as well (never made any sense to me that they stopped gaining hp, while humans kept advancing). Now, a few hits will decide a battle and my players won't feel like powerhouses at 7th level. Also makes the defensive Weapon Mastery options (such as deflect) essential to survival, and so should give Fighters a little boost in that department. As for the offensive aspects of Weapon Mastery, now a Grand Master probably _will_ kill if he/she hits, and a Fighter with 3-4 attacks/round _will_ have your head in a round, which is quite fine by me. There will still be a serious distinction between high- and low-level characters, the low-level ones will fall like flies, which is as it should be, but the high-level (well, perhaps not highest-level fighters, but those are already near-Immortals ;)) one can now be brought down by numbers (something that's virtually impossible with the current system). Obviously, direct damage spells will kill characters outright, which would tend to be bad, so I think I'd place a much lower cap on the number of dice allowed by a given direct dam spell. That would make a low-level Magic-User the equivalent of a high-level one when it comes to damage dealing, leaving the distinction at number of spells and access to a wider range of spells at higher levels. Now, in a battle between a Magic-User and a Fighter, initiative will probably decide who gets to live, and a high-level Magic-User will actually have a chance of killing a (relatively) high-level Fighter with direct dam. And I probably shouldn't even mention the boost to a thief's backstabbing ability... It will probably screw the balance (as it is) between classes no matter what I do, but how much? This would make for a far deadlier world without changing a lot of rules, something that I wouldn't be averse to at all. A world where a 10th level Fighter should be worried that those 10 orcs he's facing might actually kill him if they manage to score 3-4 hits. My players will probably hate me, but I think I'll try it out. Comments? Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 00:13:43 +0300 From: Eyal Fleminger Subject: Re: Languages? I put the list up at my website (http://fleminge0.tripod.com); you can find it under "Languages of Mystara" > From: Eyal Fleminger > Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Languages? > Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 16:23:34 +0300 > > I compiled a similiar list; I'll put it up on my website shortly > > >> From: Kar Ess >> Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion >> To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >> Subject: [MYSTARA] Languages? >> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 19:01:46 -0700 >> >> Has anyone compiled a listing of the languages in Mystara. You know: >> >> Nation Language Race Era >> >> Was thinking a table would be a good thing to give starting players. >> >> KS >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs >> http://www.hotjobs.com >> >> ******************************************************************** >> The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >> The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >> To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >> with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 00:39:28 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: Re: A Deadlier World (was: Enchanting Armor) > Comments? > I like it...if I just tinkered a little with that idea... Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Musica: notizie, recensioni, classifiche, speciali multimediali http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.music.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 15 Aug 2002 to 16 Aug 2002 (#2002-212) ****************************************************************