Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 4 Sep 2002 to 5 Sep 2002 (#2002-232) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 06/09/2002, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 18 messages totalling 1065 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Etnography - Chapter 1 - the Neathar Races v.1.0 2. Afridhi (2) 3. Questions for Zeitgeist Games (2) 4. Afridhi & Ethengar (3) 5. Ylarians (4) 6. Ethnography - some updates 7. Etnography - Wendar and Denagoth 8. Etnography - Zuyevo & Antalians 9. Blackmoor Problems (2) 10. Sind ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 11:04:04 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: Etnography - Chapter 1 - the Neathar Races v.1.0 Before I start: (I am trying to put all the info we have discussed into something coherent and cohesive - it's only v 1.0, please let me know of any mistake or disagreement. Apart from our last discussion, I have taken a look at Cynidicea fan-based material and at Genealogy of Antalians by Gander/Levy. It's long and complicated. I hope you can point me especially on discrepancies and missing things) ETNOGRAPHY - THE NEATHAR RACES v1.0 In this chapter of the Mystaran Etnography we will deal with the Neathar descended races. The Neathar were a fair skinned people, that simplistically could be called the "white human race" of Mystara. The Neathar were divided in many loose tribes. Their primary areas of influence were the coastal areas of what is now the ocean that separates Skothar from Brun. Around 10'000 BC the Neathar may be divided in two main groups: the Aharians, which lived on Brun, and the Ahonians, which lived on Skothar. 1.Neathar -----> 1.1 Ahonians -----> 1.2 Aharians 1.1 AHONIANS Some of the Ahonian tribes evolved into the Thonians, which built an impressive Empire on Skothar. After the end of the Lhomarrian Empire, this was the first true Empire on the planet's surface, dating probably around 5000 BC. The Empire suffered decadence and some of its border lands claimed indipendence. The must notable was the Kingdom of Blackmoor. Around 4000 BC Blackmoor begun a methoritic rise thanks to the contact with the technological devices of the FFS Beagle. Blackmoor soon became an Empire that fully replaced Thonia. When Blackmoor blew itself in the Great Rain of Fire (3000 BC), all that was left of the Ahonian Neathar was a small group of Thonians, that had refused the technological ways and had remained a semi-autonomous kingdom at the borders of the Empire of Blackmoor. The Thonians strived hard against the climatic changes, and has since remained in the area. Another group of surviving Thonians left westwards and ended up founding the Empire of Taymora. Much later, with the destruction of Taymora, some survivors left for Alphatia where they mixed with the Afantalians and became the original population of Alphatia, now destroyed or absorbed. Their only remnant on the face of Mystara are the Yanifey. 1.1 Ahonians --> Thonians ---> Blackmoorians ---> Taymorans (+Afantalians)--> Yanifey 1.2 AHARIANS The Aharian Neathar evolved on Brun in many different clans and tribes that generally warred against each other. The seafaring clans near Neathar became known as Skandaharians. While part of them settled in Skothar and were later absorbed by Blackmoor (4000 - 3000 BC) and destroyed by the Great Rain of Fire, a more traditionalist and primitive group continued living in what is now northern Brun. With the change of axis brought by the calamity, the Skandaharians begun migrating southwards, first to Norwold and Heldann, and then farther south, even to Thyatis, replacing and disperding the Aharian Neathar of the south. Before the Skandaharian migration, the Aharian Neathar of southern Brun had evolved in two main groups, the Maharians and the Dunharians. The Maharians lived on the southern shores, while the Dunharians settled the portion of lands that now are the Northern Reaches, Ethengar, Ylaruam and Thyatis. The Skandaharians in part mixed with the Dunharians, and the result was the Trantalian race, but for the most they were warlike and forced the Dunharians to leave toward better shores: Dunharians reached the northern Davanian shores and became later Thratians, the Isle of Dawn where they evolved into the Dunael, or left westwards to become the barbarian races from which eventually the Robrennians descended. The Maharians remained mostly untouched, until the lands on which they lived were hit by earthquakes and separated from the continent: the Maharians became thus the Makai, while the few remained in the Atruaghin, Malpheggi or Karameikos regions were absorbed by the following migrations. 1.2 Aharians ----> 1.2.1 Skandaharians ----> Dunharians -----> Dunael -----> Robrennians -----> Thratians ----> Maharians ------> Makai 1.2.1 SKANDAHARIANS While the various Neathar races of Brun re-settled, the Skandaharians had evolved into separated groups. Although some of them recognized some relation between each other, the knowledge of a common ancestry was lost quite soon for most of the tribes. The Skandaharians clans may be divided in the following groups: 1.2.1 Skandaharians -----> Antalians S.1 -----> Thantalians S.2 -----> Trantalians S.3 -----> Afantalians S.4 S.1 ANTALIANS True Antalians settled sparsely in Norwold, Heldann and in the Northern reaches. Their culture remained the most similar to the ancient Skandaharian one, and the pure Antalian group evolved into what are now the Heldanners, Northmen and Norwold's common population. A group of western Antalians were cut off their ties with their breathren by the Ethengar and various humanoid migrations: these became partly the ancestors of the Wendarians, and partly of the Barbarian nations of Borea and Northern Denagoth, from which the Eusdrians descended. Among the Antalians of Wendar, a group would depart westwards around 1722 BC, at the time of King Loark's horde: they would become the Yevo, who formed the main core of the Zuyevan population. The Hattians, the southernmost Antalian tribe, was enslaved by the Nithians along with the surviving Thantalian tribes (Thyatians and Kerendans) and were deported to Davania. Their history since was tied to that of the Thyatians. S.1 Antalians ------> Northmen & Heldanners --> Hattians ------> Northwestern Barbarians --> Eusdrians \--> Wendarians ------> Yevo Horde ----> mixes with Talmav and Visneskayans and become the Zuyevo S.2 THANTALIANS Thantalians were closely related to Antalians, and settled the areas that now are Ylaruam and Soderfjord. The Thantalian clans were nearly completely annihilated by the Nithian invasion. The only surviving clans were the Thyatians and Kerendans, that had fought along with their Antalian allies of the Hattian tribe, and were all deported to Davania. There, the Thyatians and Kerendans regained their freedom and were culturally influenced by the Milenians. Intermarriage between Milenians and Thyatians/Kerendans were common. As soon as their civilization was beginning to bloom, the Milenian Empire became too interested in them and waged a war that forced them to leave Davania under the leadership of the warrior Vanya. Thyatians and Kerendans settled in what is now Thyatis, mixing with the Doulakki that they conquered. The only Thantalian race left is thus the Thyatian stock, heavily "corrupted" by Doulakki and Milenian elements. During the last two centuries, some Thyatian expeditions went westward to the Savage Coast, and through contact with local Oltec-descended tribes and some Traladaran elements evolved into the Espa and Verdan cultures. S.2 Thantalians --> Thyatian e Kerendan tribe (mixes with Milenians and Doulakki) -----> Thyatians/Kerendans -----> Espa, Verdan S.3 TRANTALIANS Trantalians are the result of the mix between less warlike Skandaharians and Dunharians. They settled in western Ylaruam, eastern Darokin and Thyatis, where they evolved in a series of small clans, tribes and cities. The Ylarian Trantalians evolved in the Traldar race that would be conquered by Nithians. As they have did with the Thantalinas, they used the Trantalians as explorers and settlers in today Karameikos; there the Traldar first lost their culture, then built a civilization that went from the sea up to the regions of Selenica, absorbing the eastern Darokin Trantalians into their Traldar culture. The Thyatian Trantalians became known as Doulakki; this was a city-founding culture that sent expeditions as far west as to found Akorros and Athenos, and north to found Cynidicea. When the Traldar civilization was destroyed by the gnolls, the Selenican Traldar was cut off the southern Traldar, due to the presence of humanoid raiders on the road from Selenica to the area of nowadays Penhaligon. Some southern Traldar migrated to Davania and formed the Milenian Empire (later some Milenian refugees will leave the crumbling empire for Skothar, where they will mingle with the jennite-descended Tarystians to give birth to the Minaenas); the rest evolved into the Traladarans, part of which later migrated to the Savage Coast to found the City States. The northern Traldar were later reached by Thyatian and Kerendan explorers, and fusing with the Doulakki cities of the west gave way to the Daros. A migration from the northern Traldar city of Senda went northwards and mingled with the Nithian descended Neskays to form Visneskaya. Visneskaya was partly absorbed by the Yevo to form the Zuyevans, and partly left west to found the Klagorst nations. S.3 Trantalians -----> Traldar ---> Traladarans ---> City States ---> Milenians (+Tarystians)--> Minaea ---> Visneskaya-->Klagorst (+Yevo)---> Zuyevans -----> Doulakki ---> Cynidicea -----> absorbed by Thyatians ----> Daro (Thyatian/Trantalian/Traldar/Doulakki mix) S.4 AFANTALIANS The Afantalians were Skandaharians that settled the continent of Alphatia and the islands of Bellissaria and the Yannivey chain. They were later reached by the Taymoran refugees of the south, but the arrival of Alphatians on Mystara put an abrupt end to their civilization, whose only trace remain the Yanifey. S.4 Afantalians (+Taymorans) ----> Yanifey ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Musica: notizie, recensioni, classifiche, speciali multimediali http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.music.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 11:20:15 +0200 From: Federico Kaftal Subject: Afridhi Being the Afridhi more a matriarcal religious society, and given the sound of the name Tuska Rusa, I'd rather go for Altai populations instead of Mongolic: something eastern, but more related to Siberia/ Finland/Hungary rather than Mongolia. Is there any Linguist on the MML to give us his/her impressions? Federico _____________________________________________________________ > The Afridhi Again im interested in physical descriptions. Any real-world > paralells for this culture? > Mah, perhaps Mongolians. Tuska Rusa, their high priestess, is said to > > have "auburn locks". Nothing more for a physical description. [Giampaolo > Agosta] > The clothing for women is detailed - "Baggy pantaloons, warm > felt boots, collarless double-breasted blouse and coat of curly lamb-> > skin." The male clothing seems fairly similar. "Like most Afridhi, Sher is > a short, square-bodied man with curly black hair and a long beard." _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 13:27:58 +0300 From: harri mäki Subject: Afridhi > Being the Afridhi more a matriarcal religious society, and given the > sound > of the name Tuska Rusa, I'd rather go for Altai populations instead of > Mongolic: something eastern, but more related to Siberia/ > Finland/Hungary > rather than Mongolia. Is there any Linguist on the MML to give us > his/her > impressions? > Not being linguist but finnish, I would say that name has some elements that sound very finnish, but then again there is also in my opinion some slavic sound in it. Some eastern-European/Asian/Siberian comparison is propably right. - Sunpoint.net ilmoittaa: Sunpoint.netistä saat luotettavan sähköpostiosoitteen maksutta. http://www.sunpoint.net/SunAds/click.htm?mode=footer&id=67&jump=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sunpoint.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 14:45:04 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Questions for Zeitgeist Games Hello Dustin, Welcome to the list. Im pleased that you guys at Zeitgeist Games have taken an interest in our small community. The same can not be said of many other game designers. As it happens, I do have a few questions about your upcoming products: 1)Style. >> From what I understand, the various previously published Blackmoor products varied greatly in style. Many were filled with in-jokes and give an impression of being almost completely comical. How much of this element are you aiming for and how much are you going for producing a serious fantasy setting? 2)Scope. Blackmoor is a pretty small place. Will your products focus mainly on Blackmoor and its surroundings similarly to older material or are you planning on developing the world outside Blackmoor to a large extent? Thonia, Skandaharia and the Afridhi lands seem to be obvious potential expansions for the campaign, but whatabout lands beyond that? 3)Cosmology. How much will the coming products attempt to cover Gods, the Multiverse (Outer Planes etc..) will be discussed? Thats it for now...more might be coming later :) Havard --- Dustin Clingman skrev: > Hello everyone, > > I just subscribed to this list today after I > received message from > Havard about the discussions pertaining to the > origins of Blackmoor and > it's relationship to Mystara. I am sure you have all > heard that we are > bringing back the old Blackmoor world as a d20 > product and quite > possibly a couple of other spin-offs. We are working > diligently to > maintain as much of the history of Blackmoor and yet > still create an > innovative and creative endeavor. We have already > begun the foundations > of the world and would love to use this list as a > sounding board for > things as they become available and necessary. > > To answer a couple of questions right of the bat: > > We do not have a timetable for when the sourcebook > will be finished. We > are working hard expanding the d20 mechanics in an > effort to make the > Blackmoor world stand out for those who are a more > scrutinizing lot of > player. The d20 system is great imo, but we have > some ideas that we > think will allow people to extend the basic play in > some different > directions based on player preferences. > > Dave and I have not discussed the relationship of > Mystara to Blackmoor > or it's future in the new sourcebook. There might be > copyright issues > somewhere in that whole mix that have to be > considered. If it feels > good, we will certainly try to keep it. After all, a > cataclysm is a > pretty destructive thing. After something like that, > anything is > possible. In this case, it might be more appropriate > to say, *before* > something like that anything is possible.. :) > > I would be happy to answer questions that you might > have. What I don't > know about Blackmoor, Dave certainly does. :) > > Dustin > > --- > Dustin Clingman > Zeitgeist Games > www.zeitgeistgames.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ______________________________________________________ Se den nye Yahoo! Mail på http://no.yahoo.com/ Nytt design, enklere å bruke, alltid tilgang til Adressebok, Kalender og Notisbok ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 14:50:51 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: Re: Afridhi & Ethengar An Altai origin for the Afridhi could be quite cool, as it would provide the ethnic background for the Littonians. Moreover, we could assume that the Peshwa were Hun-like barbarians, a result of Afridhi/Oltec mix; then they later mixed with some of the Antalians and, after being conquered by Akkila Khan, they became the Ethengarians. Now we must only explain how the Peshwa arrived on Brun 500 years after the Great Rain of Fire...any idea? Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Musica: notizie, recensioni, classifiche, speciali multimediali http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.music.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 14:56:45 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: Ylarians Ok, let's get to the point: Ylari origin. Are they neathar/oltecs? Are they neathar/nithian? Were all nithians wiped away or were they absorbed? >> From where on Mystara did the Alasyians arrive in Ylaruam??? Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Musica: notizie, recensioni, classifiche, speciali multimediali http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.music.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 10:02:49 -0400 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Ylarians Giulio wrote: > Ylari origin. > Are they neathar/oltecs? > Are they neathar/nithian? I always thought they were Neathar/Nithian in origin (except the Makistani), whereas Nithians (I think) are a Neathar/Oltec mix. > Were all nithians wiped away or were they absorbed? Well, the modern Thothians are essentially full-blooded Nithians without the cultural memories, and the people of the Emirate of Nithia are described as being of different appearance. Looking at their descriptions, I would say they would likely be pretty much of Nithian stock, as well. The remaining Nithians were either killed in their final civil wars, or absorbed by the surrounding peoples, I would think. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 11:06:26 -0400 From: Dustin Clingman Subject: Re: Questions for Zeitgeist Games Thanks for the interest, I have answered the questions between quotes. //1)Style. //From what I understand, the various previously //published Blackmoor products varied greatly in style. //Many were filled with in-jokes and give an impression //of being almost completely comical. How much of this //element are you aiming for and how much are you going //for producing a serious fantasy setting? // As with any product the editor is always an important cog in the machine. Different editors mark things differently from the perspective of adjusting things to make them more marketable. Some of the edits in the differing products were based on this kind of editing style. Now I like a good joke in game as much if not more than the average guy, but for there are appropriate places for them. The main style plans for the initial Blackmoor source book will be very much a serious setting. We are really taking the whole project very seriously. I think that there are a lot of fantasy worlds that could have been much better or "greater" than they eventually became because of a lack of focus or a lack of core vision related to the line. We have a very strong core vision related to Blackmoor and we hope it will serve to help make the best setting we can.=20 //2)Scope. //Blackmoor is a pretty small place. Will your products //focus mainly on Blackmoor and its surroundings //similarly to older material or are you planning on //developing the world outside Blackmoor to a large //extent? Thonia, Skandaharia and the Afridhi lands seem //to be obvious potential expansions for the campaign, //but whatabout lands beyond that? There's a whole planet out there! Certainly the world sourcebook will cover all the surrounding territories and expand where possible. One thing that I can't stand as a fiction fan is when people create something, then warp it to fit the ease of writing a new story. ( My best example here is Star Trek: Generations.....Zephram Cochrane was from Alpha Centauri!) One of the reason I joined this list was to touch base with this group of core fans so we can consider those elements in the foundation of how Blackmoor is laid out. There may be some issues related to copyrights that have just begun to be researched. Where those issues don't force us to change, we would like to stay as much the same as we can. That however is our wish and may not be the end reality for us or the Blackmoor line. Blackmoor is the name of the line of products but not a border.. :) // //3)Cosmology. How much will the coming products attempt //to cover Gods, the Multiverse (Outer Planes etc..) //will be discussed? // There will definitely be an expanse on the deities local to the world. Wherever we have precedent, we are going to try to maintain it. Zugzul is obviously and important deity in this whole equation. So there will indeed be treatments on all of the deities in the world. At this point, the multiverse and other planes hasn't come up yet. I would say that we will probably wait to see how popular the core book becomes before we make those kinds of plans.=20 Dustin //Thats it for now...more might be coming later :) // //Havard // // --- Dustin Clingman skrev: > //Hello everyone, //> //> I just subscribed to this list today after I //> received message from //> Havard about the discussions pertaining to the //> origins of Blackmoor and //> it's relationship to Mystara. I am sure you have all //> heard that we are //> bringing back the old Blackmoor world as a d20 //> product and quite //> possibly a couple of other spin-offs. We are working diligently to //> maintain as much of the history of Blackmoor and yet //> still create an //> innovative and creative endeavor. We have already //> begun the foundations //> of the world and would love to use this list as a //> sounding board for //> things as they become available and necessary. //> //> To answer a couple of questions right of the bat: //> //> We do not have a timetable for when the sourcebook //> will be finished. We //> are working hard expanding the d20 mechanics in an //> effort to make the //> Blackmoor world stand out for those who are a more=20 //scrutinizing lot of //> player. The d20 system is great imo, but we have //> some ideas that we //> think will allow people to extend the basic play in //> some different //> directions based on player preferences. //> //> Dave and I have not discussed the relationship of //> Mystara to Blackmoor //> or it's future in the new sourcebook. There might be=20 //copyright issues //> somewhere in that whole mix that have to be //> considered. If it feels //> good, we will certainly try to keep it. After all, a //> cataclysm is a //> pretty destructive thing. After something like that, //> anything is //> possible. In this case, it might be more appropriate //> to say, *before* //> something like that anything is possible.. :) //> //> I would be happy to answer questions that you might //> have. What I don't //> know about Blackmoor, Dave certainly does. :) //> //> Dustin //> //> --- //> Dustin Clingman //> Zeitgeist Games //> www.zeitgeistgames.com //> //> //******************************************************************** //> The Other Worlds Homepage:=20 //http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp //> The Mystara=20 //Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ //> To unsubscribe, send email to //> LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM //> with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. //> // //______________________________________________________ //Se den nye Yahoo! Mail p=E5 http://no.yahoo.com/ //Nytt design, enklere =E5 bruke, alltid tilgang til Adressebok,=20 //Kalender og Notisbok // //******************************************************************** //The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp //The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ //To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM //with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. // ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 17:02:04 +0000 From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Ethnography - some updates On the Traldar genealogy, I'd say: Trantalians---->Doulakki ---| mix with Thyatians and ----> Traldar ---| become the Daros ----> Milenians ----> Traladarans ----> City State Traladarans > SKANDAHARIANS > Maybe we could assume that the Skandaharians and the > Yanifey are a mixed Neathar/Lhomarrian race. I'd say the Skandaharians should be pure Neathar/Antalians. > THONIA & BLACKMOOR > James suggested that Antalians were descendants of > Thonia. I don't know what you think. Maybe they could > be another branch of descendants of the Proto-Antalian > group, but I don't think that we should make Antalians > directly descend from Thonia; I agree with Haavard, they should be descendants of the Skandaharians. > So my idea would be to put Thonians as descendants of > Proto-Antalians, along with Antalians, Trantalians and > the Thy/Ker group. For Thonia, I think the Geoff's Lhomarr material offers the best solution: Thonians could then be a mix of Neathar and Lhomarrians (50%/50%). Going by canon, I'd make the Thonians as an early offshot of the Neathar, with a little Tanagoro blood, perhaps. > OTHERS > How would Eusdrian be related to Antalians? They descend from barbarian tribes of the Midlands. They are likely to be related to western Antalian tribes like those in the NW Wastelands. Also, the Heldannic Knights in VotPA seem to consider them as a related to them. > What are these "northwestern tribes" you are talking > about? Where do they appear in canon or fan-based > material? They're from X11, Saga of the Shadowlord. The territories north-west of Wendar and west of Denagoth are inhabited by nomadic barbarians who fit the Antalian stereotype (tall, fair hair and skin...) BTW, have a look at my language table at the Vaults of Pandius. It could be of help, since it is based more or less on the same sources. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 17:05:19 +0000 From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Etnography - Wendar and Denagoth la Volpe wrote: > > According to Marco and Shawn's timeline, humans of the > Denagothian plateau are either Denagothian or > descendants of the Antalians. The first group occupies > Denagoth and Essuria. The second group remains > marginal. Is this second group the "NW barbarians" > that Agathokles mentioned? I assume that they make up > the core for Borean and northern Denagothian > barbarians. Yes, they are the same people that invaded Essuria at the time of Landryn Teriak (before he became the Shadowlord). They come from the wastelands west of Denagoth, though. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 17:18:53 +0000 From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Etnography - Zuyevo & Antalians la Volpe wrote: > > The Zuyevans have been described by Adrian Mattias as > an Antalian population. Considered how many Antalian > populations there are, I'd make them yet another > Proto-Antalian descended group. We would thus have: > > 1.Proto-Antalians > 1.1 Antalians -----> Northmen, Barbarians, Hattians > 1.2 Thantalians -----> Thyatis > 1.3 Trantalians -----> Traladara; Milenia > 1.4 Yavantalians ----> Zuyevo Yes, they are too distant from other Antalians to be lumped into the same group. My take would be: 1 Neathar 1.1 Old Antalians 1.1.1 New Antalians 1.1.2 Proto-Thyatians/Kerendans 1.2 Southern Neathar 1.2.1 Traldar 1.2.2 Doulakki 1.2.3 Makai 1.3 Dunaelic 1.3.1 Dunael 1.3.2 Thratians 1.3.3 Robrennians 1.4 Western Neathar 1.4.1 Zuyevans 1.4.2 Midlanders -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 20:37:37 +0000 From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Afridhi & Ethengar la Volpe wrote: > > Moreover, we could assume that the Peshwa > were Hun-like barbarians, a result of Afridhi/Oltec > mix; Uhm, I was under the impression that the Peshwah were basically native americans. It may be just an idea of mine, though. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 20:45:59 +0000 From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Ylarians la Volpe wrote: > > Ok, let's get to the point: > Ylari origin. > Are they neathar/oltecs? Not likely (in the sense that they don't look like a neather/oltec mix), but possible, since both Neathar and Oltecs were common in eastern Brun. > Are they neathar/nithian? Probably they do have Nithian blood, though only a little of it. They might be slaves brought to Nithia during the late Nithian age. > Were all nithians wiped away or were they absorbed? There are living Nithians in the outer world Emirate of Nithia. And they are very different from the Ylari (i.e., short, dark-red haired and red-skinned vs tall, dark haired, and tanned). > >From where on Mystara did the Alasyians arrive in > Ylaruam??? Another vague memory, perhaps somewhere in the Gaz, perhaps not: from the Isle of Dawn, perhaps? An idea: what if they were the descendants of the Taymoran remnants in the IoD, mixed with the local neathar, and brought back to Brun as slaves by the Nithians? -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 20:07:41 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Blackmoor Problems At 03:07 PM 9/4/02 +0200, you wrote: > > Unless I am mistaken, Halflings had not yet developed > on Mystara at the time of Blackmoor, right? They are on the Precataclysmic map from the Hollow World (look by the Pass of Brasol on Davania). More notably, there are several communities of Halflings located near Blackmoor in the DA series of modules. The Shire of Booh, on the western road leading from Blackmoor to the swamps, is a major one. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 20:14:28 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Blackmoor Problems At 04:42 PM 9/4/02 +0000, you wrote: > Havard Faanes wrote: >> >> Unless I am mistaken, Halflings had not yet developed >> on Mystara at the time of Blackmoor, right? > > Even if they existed at the time, they would be confined to Davania. Why should they be confined to Davania any more than the elves are/were? >> Elves >> should be a rare race at this time as most elves >> remained on the southern continent, but there are a >> few settlements near Blackmoor itself, though perhaps >> not too many in the Empire. > > There was a "King of Northern Elves", who is said to be an ancestor of > one of the pregen characters in "City of the Gods". Menander Ithamis. There is a large community of elves in the woods east of Blackmoor. As presented in the DA series, they seem to be rather xenophobic, or at least distant from humanity. Menander Ithamis being a notable exception. There are also elvish communities in the regions around the Duchy of Ten. >> Dwarves probably entered >> from the north after being driven from their homes by >> the Chromatic Dragons and should be quite numerous >> around Blackmoor but again probably rare in Thonia. > > Dwarves can indeed be the most common demihumans in the Blackmoor age. > They'd be Kogolor-like, though. The Kogolor were only the most numerous clan of the original Outer World dwarves. While most of the cultural traits of them from the Hollow World book would likely remain the same, there is no reason the dwarves around Blackmoor need necessarily be exactly like the Hollow World Kogolor. The ones in the DA series seem to be very much like their Outer World contemporaries (not surprising, considering there was no such thing as the Kogolors at the time of the DA series). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 20:20:43 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Afridhi & Ethengar At 02:50 PM 9/5/02 +0200, you wrote: > Moreover, we could assume that the Peshwa > were Hun-like barbarians, a result of Afridhi/Oltec > mix; then they later mixed with some of the Antalians > and, after being conquered by Akkila Khan, they became > the Ethengarians. Now we must only explain how the > Peshwa arrived on Brun 500 years after the Great Rain > of Fire...any idea? As I have it, the Pexua migrated to the Isle of Dawn when the Afridhi and (later) Blackmoorian cultures pushed them out. They spread across the western side of the Isle of Dawn, and were split into several splinter groups following the Great Rain of Fire. One ended up colonizing Ochalea, the other was stranded on Brun when the Hardanger Isthmus collapsed, and reverted to a horseman-barbaric culture when Akkila Khan's humanoids conquered them. The third was mostly assimilated and/or destroyed by various colonizing expeditions on the Isle of Dawn. Some remnants may still be found in the plains of southwestern IoD- the Province of Meridiona. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 20:22:59 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Ylarians At 02:56 PM 9/5/02 +0200, you wrote: > > Ylari origin. > Are they neathar/oltecs? > Are they neathar/nithian? > Were all nithians wiped away or were they absorbed? >> From where on Mystara did the Alasyians arrive in > Ylaruam??? The only one I can answer definitively is garnered from information in Gaz2: They were originally a subject race enslaved by the Nithians that came from the Isle of Dawn. As to their origins? I don't know. I've been trying to determine that myself. I was going to have them be the splinter group of Pexua left on the IoD, but Mystaros' Isle of Dawn timeline leaves a more interesting option- his Oltec derived group, the Asieni (descendants of Oltec Slaves from the Thonian colonies on the IoD) seem as if they were intended to be the Alasiyans. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 21:17:48 -0700 From: Kar Ess Subject: Sind I need some information on Sind, is there a link or two with quite a bit of description, culture comparison, names? I only have a few Mystara Gazeteers, so have only references to the country. Thanks KS __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 4 Sep 2002 to 5 Sep 2002 (#2002-232) **************************************************************