Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 26 Jan 2002 to 27 Jan 2002 (#2002-27) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 28/01/2002, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 2 messages totalling 586 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. spheres for specialty priests (long) (2) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 16:20:04 +0100 From: Knud Gentz Subject: spheres for specialty priests (long) Hi all, since there seems to be no official ruling on granted spells and powers for priests of Mystaras immortals, I have started pondering and would like to propose the following compilation for discussion: please comment. I'm especially interested in these topics: - do you think the table is balanced and fair (as far as good/evil clerics or various interests are concerned) - have i made a major glitch in giving or not giving access to certain spheres cheers Knud PS if it is okay to post attachments I can provide an excel spreadsheet containing the information with better layout and some calculating Used material: (1) Wrath of the immortals boxed set book one: code of the immortals, Immortals of the known world section. (The immortals described herein are those I have included here) (2) Players Options: spells and magic: chapter 2( priests), especially the customized player characters section, for an idea on how to assess the special powers. (3) Forgotten Realms Adventures HC: Gods and their specialty priests section in conjunction with http://dnd.starflung.com/dei_imm.html (4) Tome of Magic: time spells (see Khoronus). I did not include spells from other tome spheres since they seem to be quite experimental and at least partly covered by some mystaran specialties (eg travellers sphere vs mystaran merchant spells). (5) AD&D 2nd ed Players Handbook (of course) (6) http://dnd.starflung.com/immortal.html with http://dnd.starflung.com/specpre.html and http://dnd.starflung.com/specpre2.html (which stops after Pearl regrettably and is imho not very balanced) (7) some other minor material found on the web. I mixed all of the above with special attention on the descriptions of the immortals from (1), adjusted a little for status (ie initiate...hierarch), multiplied by thumb and came up with the following: The notation is Name Major minor spheres special abilities granted al-Kalim: All animal charm Combat Creation elemental guardian Healing plant protection sun Weather Alphaks: All Charm Combat divination elemental Healing (rev only) Necromantic plant (rev) Weather backstab as thief, control undead +2 (to die roll), detect good at will, curse 1/d Alphatia All animal Charm Creation divination Guardian Healing Necromantic plant Protection sun save +2 vs spells and rod/staff/wand, cast 1 school of wizard spells as if they were clerical spells, no armor, no turning Asterius All animal Charm Combat creation Divination guardian healing plant protection weather may use thieves weapons, move silently as thief, hide in shadows as thief, cast merchant spells as if they were clerical spells Atruaghin All Animal Combat Creation divination Elemental (Earth) Guardian Healing necromantic Plant Protection Weather only use indian weapons, always detect lies Atzanteotl All Astral Charm Combat Elemental (Earth) Healing Necromantic immune to alignment detection, only use piercing or inca weapons, command undead, cause light wounds 3/d, detect good at will, cast enchantment/charm spells as if they were cleric spells Benekander All Astral combat Creation guardian Healing Protection summoning infravision as elves Calitha All Asnimal creation Elemental (Water) Guardian Healing necromantic Plant protection water breathing 1/d Diamond All animal Charm Combat Divination Healing necromantic Protection turn undead at +2 Diulanna All animal Charm Combat Guardian Healing Protection Sun weather only tribal weapons, +1 on personal initiative, endurance bonus proficiency Djaea All Animal Creation Divination Elemental (Earth air fire water) guardian Healing Necromantic Plant Protection sun weather Eiryndul All Animal creation Divination Elemental (Earth) healing Plant Sun may use longbow and longsword, learn forest creature languages, detect secret doors as elf Faunus All Animal Charm Creation Elemental (Earth air fire water) healing Plant Protection sun Weather use only druidical weapons, speak with animal at will, no turning Frey/Freyja All charm Combat Divination Healing Protection Sun may use swords and daggers, may specialize as fighter The Great One All Animal Astral Combat Divination Elemental Healing Protection fly 1/d, learn dragon languages, change to half-dragon form 1/d Halav All charm Combat Guardian Healing Necromantic Protection +2 to hit humaoids, may use swords Hel All Astral Combat creation divination Elemental Healing (rev) Necromantic Summoning control undead as 3 lvl higher, save at +1 vs death magic Ilsundal All Animal Creation Divination Guardian Healing Necromantic Plant Protection Sun never surprised Ixion All animal Creation Divination Elemental (Fire) Healing necromantic Plant Protection Sun cast wizard elemental fire spells as if they were cleric spells, produce flame 2/d, turn undead at +1 Ka All Animal Combat Creation Divination Elemental (Earth) Guadian Healing necromantic Plant protection sun weather infravision Kagyar All Charm Creation divination Elemental Guardian Healing Protection save at +1 vs spells and rod/staff/wand, may use axes and crossbows, artist bonus proficiency, +1 consitution Karaash All Combat divination Healing Necromantic protection may use crossbows, str and con bonus as fighter, d10 hit points per level Khoronus All Astral Creation Divination Guardian Healing Protection Summoning Time (!) +2 on personal intiative, cast spells from sphere of time, casting times reduced by 1, may cast extension1-3, foresight, haste, mordenkainens lucubration, permanency, timestop as priest spells (foresight, permanency and timestop count as 7th level priest spells) Korotiku All Charm Combat Creation Divination healing summoning weather hide in shadows as thief, cast illusion spells as if they were priest spells. Koryis All Charm Divination Guardian Healing Necromantic protection weather protection from evil 1/d, friends 1/d Loki All Charm combat Creation Divination Elemental (Fire) Summoning find/remove traps as thief, cast illusion spells as if they were priest spells Masauwu All Charm Creation Divination Healing Necromantic summoning persuasion bonus proficiency, cast enchanment/charm spells as if they were priest spells, undetectable alignment, fast talk bonus proficiency Mealiden All Animal Astral Combat Creation Guardian Healing Necromantic Plant protection may use bows, blind shooting bonus proficiency Noumena All Astral combat Divination Elemental healing Sun detect hidden doors as elf, permanent true seeing, cast wizard divination spells as if they were priest spells Nyx All Combat Creation elemental (rev) Healing (rev) Necromantic (rev) Protection Sun (rev) darkness 1(d*lvl) (max 3), +1 to hit and damage in darkness, cont. darkness 1/d, command undead as 3 lvl higher Odin All animal Astral Charm Combat Divination Elemental (Air Earth) Guardian Healing protection summoning Weather may use spears, javelins, pikes, may cast find familiar (raven) Opal All Animal Combat Divination Elemental (Earth Fire) Guardian Healing Necromantic cont. light 1/d, no humans priests, cast polymorph self as if it were a priest spell Orcus All Combat Elemental Healing (rev) Necromantic (rev) -2 to armor class vs demi-humans, cast invocation spells as if they were priest spells, control undead, str bonus as fighters Ordana Ordanas Clerics are Druids as decribes in the PHB Pearl All Astral Combat Creation Elemental (Fire earth) Healing necromantic Protection infravision, learn dragon languages Petra All charm Combat Divination Guardian Healing Necromantic Protection sun +1 strength, leadership bonus proficiency Pflarr All Combat Creation Divination elemental Guardian Healing Necromantic Protection hear noise as thief Protius All Animal combat Creation Elemental (Water earth) Healing Necromantic Plant Protection Weather may use trident, swimming movement as land based, cannot drown Rad All Astral combat Creation Divination Elemental guardian healing necromantic +1 intelligence, +1 wisdom Rafiel All Astral Charm Creation Divination elemental guardian Healing Necromantic Protection save at +1 vs spells and rod/staff/wand, engineering bonus proficiency Rathanos All Astral Combat Creation Divination Elemental Guardian Healing Necromantic Sun resist fire 1/d, produce fire 1/d, use wizardly magic items Razud All Charm combat Creation Divination Guardian Healing Plant Protection summoning Sun Weather +1 wisdom, +1 to personal initiative Talitha All Charm combat Creation Divination elemental Healing Protection summoning Sun (rev) weather pick pockets as thief, backstab as thief, may use thieves weapons Tarastia All charm Combat Divination elemental Guardian Healing Necromantic protection summoning may use axes, detect lie at will, detect evil 2/d, d10 hit points per level Terra All Animal combat Creation Elemental guardian Healing Necromantic Plant Protection sun Weather speak with animals at will, no turning Thanatos All Astral Charm Combat creation divination Elemental guardian Healing Necromantic Summoning must use scythe as weapon, command undead as 1 lvl higher Thor All animal Combat Elemental (Water Air fire earth) Guardian Healing necromantic Protection summoning weather may use axes, d10 hit points per level, +1 strength Valerias All Astral Charm combat Creation Divination elemental Guardian Healing Necromantic Protection Sun locate 1/d, remove fear 1/d, ventriloquism 1/d Vanya All Combat divination Guardian Healing Necromantic Protection summoning Sun may use swords, daggers, lances, blind fighting bonus proficiency, may specialize as fighters Zirchev All Animal combat divination Elemental (Earth) guardian Healing Plant protection Sun Weather tracking bonus proficiency, alertness bonus proficiency, may use bows Note: spells from wizard schools can be cast only up to 7th level, except where noted otherwise. attribute pluses raise an attribute to a max of 18 thief abilities are as per DMG: table 19, thief average ability table, modified for dex, race and armor ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 23:01:25 +0100 From: Agathokles Subject: Re: spheres for specialty priests (long) Knud Gentz wrote: > > since there seems to be no official ruling on granted spells and powers for > priests of Mystaras immortals, I have started pondering and would like to > propose the following compilation for discussion: Good idea. I'll add my comments below. > PS if it is okay to post attachments I can provide an excel spreadsheet > containing the information with better layout and some calculating No, attachments would be unreadable to digest users. You should put it on a website instead, and post here a link. > Used material: > (4) Tome of Magic: time spells (see Khoronus). I did not include spells > from other tome spheres since they seem to be quite experimental and at > least partly covered by some mystaran specialties (eg travellers sphere vs > mystaran merchant spells). Uhm, I find the Chaos and Law spheres to be especially appropriate to Philosophers and specialty priests of strongly aligned Immortals. > al-Kalim: All animal charm Combat Creation elemental guardian Healing plant > protection sun Weather Divination is really needed here (the OD&D clerics of the Eternal Truth and the Desert Druids had some special divinations). Elemental, OTOH, should not include Fire. Necromancy could be included (not the reverse spells), and Charm could be dropped, too. However, it looks fairly balanced. Ah, I'd let them use the Ylari traditional weapons (Scimitar and Jambiya). > Alphaks: All Charm Combat divination elemental Healing (rev only) > Necromantic plant (rev) Weather > backstab as thief, control undead +2 (to die roll), detect good at will, > curse 1/d Necromantic should be reverse only, IMO. Elemental should be limited to Fire. To balance these reduced spellcasting abilities, one could add the War and Chaos spheres from the Tome of Magic. Also Sun could be added. > Alphatia All animal Charm Creation divination Guardian Healing Necromantic > plant Protection sun > save +2 vs spells and rod/staff/wand, cast 1 school of wizard spells as if > they were clerical spells, no armor, no turning I'd limit the choice of the wizard school to some extent (barring necromancy, invocation and conjuration, probably). > Asterius All animal Charm Combat creation Divination guardian healing plant > protection weather > may use thieves weapons, move silently as thief, hide in shadows as thief, > cast merchant spells as if they were clerical spells Assuming they still have TU, they seem fairly powerful. I'd probably limit them to bardic armor. > Atruaghin All Animal Combat Creation divination Elemental (Earth) Guardian > Healing necromantic Plant Protection Weather > only use indian weapons, always detect lies Ok. > Atzanteotl All Astral Charm Combat Elemental (Earth) Healing Necromantic > immune to alignment detection, only use piercing or inca weapons, command > undead, cause light wounds 3/d, detect good at will, cast enchantment/charm > spells as if they were cleric spells Quite powerful, IMO. Some armor limits could be in order. > Benekander > Calitha > Diamond > Diulanna Ok. > Djaea All Animal Creation Divination Elemental (Earth air fire water) > guardian Healing Necromantic Plant Protection sun weather Quite powerful. Perhaps minor access to Elemental (except full access to Earth) > Eiryndul > Faunus > Frey/Freyja Ok. > The Great One All Animal Astral Combat Divination Elemental Healing Protection > fly 1/d, learn dragon languages, change to half-dragon form 1/d Perhaps fly and dragon form should be available only at higher levels (5-9). > Halav > Hel Ok. > Ilsundal All Animal Creation Divination Guardian Healing Necromantic Plant > Protection Sun > never surprised I'd rather have Alertness bonus proficiency and minor access to Elemental (Fire, Air). > Ixion All animal Creation Divination Elemental (Fire) Healing necromantic > Plant Protection Sun > cast wizard elemental fire spells as if they were cleric spells, produce > flame 2/d, turn undead at +1 Sounds quite powerful. Perhaps animal and/or plant should be removed. > Ka > Kagyar All Charm Creation divination Elemental Guardian Healing Protection > save at +1 vs spells and rod/staff/wand, may use axes and crossbows, artist > bonus proficiency, +1 consitution Elemental should be limited to Earth, IMO. Weapon usage should be extended to all weapon, but with no xp gained when using non-dwarven weapons, as per the gazetteer (of course, this refers to dwarven priests only). > Karaash All Combat divination Healing Necromantic protection > may use crossbows, str and con bonus as fighter, d10 hit points per level May also use swords. > Khoronus > Korotiku > Koryis All Charm Divination Guardian Healing Necromantic protection weather > protection from evil 1/d, friends 1/d Pacifists: little armor and weaponry. Compensate with extra power. This one comes from an old Dragon article and should be appropriate: "Calming aura (20): Priests with this ability can remove fear with their touch as per spell. By their mere presence, these priests can alter the moods of those around them, causing all hostile creatures within 158 to make a successful saving throw vs. spells each round or become non hostile. Undead are immune to this effect. This power does not function if the priest himself is performing hostile actions. Both aspects of this power function continuously, as long as the priest is conscious." > Loki Ok. Note that Loki would be a major candidate for the Chaos sphere. > Masauwu All Charm Creation Divination Healing Necromantic summoning > persuasion bonus proficiency, cast enchanment/charm spells as if they were > priest spells, undetectable alignment, fast talk bonus proficiency I'd remove the Healing sphere > Mealiden Ok. > Noumena All Astral combat Divination Elemental healing Sun > detect hidden doors as elf, permanent true seeing, cast wizard divination > spells as if they were priest spells Permanent True Seeing seems rather powerful. Note that Noumena would be perfect for Thought sphere. > Nyx All Combat Creation elemental (rev) Healing (rev) Necromantic (rev) > Protection Sun (rev) > darkness 1(d*lvl) (max 3), +1 to hit and damage in darkness, cont. darkness > 1/d, command undead as 3 lvl higher I'd replace Elemental with Summoning, also for balance purposes. > Odin All animal Astral Charm Combat Divination Elemental (Air Earth) > Guardian Healing protection summoning Weather > may use spears, javelins, pikes, may cast find familiar (raven) Only Elemental Air, IMO. > Opal > Orcus All Combat Elemental Healing (rev) Necromantic (rev) > -2 to armor class vs demi-humans, cast invocation spells as if they were > priest spells, control undead, str bonus as fighters The Invocation school is very powerful, and the Elemental sphere is the largest of the priest spheres. I'd remove the second (perhaps replacing it with minor access to the summoning sphere). Also, the priest might become a lycanthrope (this could be a power or not). > Ordana > Pearl Ok. > Petra All charm Combat Divination Guardian Healing Necromantic Protection sun > +1 strength, leadership bonus proficiency I'd find the +1 strenght bonus not especially fitting. I'd have something like a -1 bonus to AC, or a protection from evil 3/day. > Pflarr All Combat Creation Divination elemental Guardian Healing > Necromantic Protection > hear noise as thief Use thief weapon, limited to thief armor. Also may cast some wizard spells. Remove Combat and minor access to Elemental instead. > Protius All Animal combat Creation Elemental (Water earth) Healing > Necromantic Plant Protection Weather > may use trident, swimming movement as land based, cannot drown Elemental: Water only. May also use piercing weapons (except bows) instead of blunt weapons. Cast spells from the Water Elemental wizard school. No access to the combat sphere. > Rad All Astral combat Creation Divination Elemental guardian healing > necromantic > +1 intelligence, +1 wisdom IMO, all priests should actually be wizards, and get no special powers, except a +1 Int bonus. > Rafiel All Astral Charm Creation Divination elemental guardian Healing > Necromantic Protection > save at +1 vs spells and rod/staff/wand, engineering bonus proficiency These are in the official conversion document for the SE: "Shamans have access to a broad base of spells, including the following spheres: All, Charm, Divination, Elemental, Healing, Necromantic, and Protection. " > Rathanos All Astral Combat Creation Divination Elemental Guardian Healing > Necromantic Sun > resist fire 1/d, produce fire 1/d, use wizardly magic items Elemental should be Fire only, perhaps compensate with access to Fire Elem. wizard school. > Razud All Charm combat Creation Divination Guardian Healing Plant > Protection summoning Sun Weather > +1 wisdom, +1 to personal initiative Perhaps also the Survival proficiency would be appropriate. > Talitha All Charm combat Creation Divination elemental Healing Protection > summoning Sun (rev) weather > pick pockets as thief, backstab as thief, may use thieves weapons Thief armor only, minor access to Elemental. > Tarastia All charm Combat Divination elemental Guardian Healing Necromantic > protection summoning > may use axes, detect lie at will, detect evil 2/d, d10 hit points per level Good candidate for the Law sphere. Detect Lie should probably be 3/day for balance, also Elemental should be limited to here sphere. > Terra All Animal combat Creation Elemental guardian Healing Necromantic > Plant Protection sun Weather > speak with animals at will, no turning Elemental: Earth only. Also spells form the wizardly school of Elemental Earth. > Thanatos All Astral Charm Combat creation divination Elemental guardian > Healing Necromantic Summoning > must use scythe as weapon, command undead as 1 lvl higher I'd soften the weapon limitation (very harsh!) to must devote his first proficiency slot to scythe. Other proficiencies can go to other curved blades. Command Undead as 3 level higher, but no access to elemental and especially creation. Also, cast spells from the wizardly school of necromancy. Healing and Necromancy: reverse only. > Thor All animal Combat Elemental (Water Air fire earth) Guardian Healing > necromantic Protection summoning weather > may use axes, d10 hit points per level, +1 strength Only Elemental Air. Call lighting 1/day. May use hammers. > Valerias All Astral Charm combat Creation Divination elemental Guardian > Healing Necromantic Protection Sun > locate 1/d, remove fear 1/d, ventriloquism 1/d Charm spells as if the priest was one level higher. Minor access to Elemental. +1 Charisma. > Vanya All Combat divination Guardian Healing Necromantic Protection > summoning Sun > may use swords, daggers, lances, blind fighting bonus proficiency, may > specialize as fighters Weapon of Choice instead of specialization and blind fighting. Must learn one sword (long, broad, bastard or two-handed) and one lance (medium or heavy) at first level. > Zirchev Ok. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 26 Jan 2002 to 27 Jan 2002 (#2002-27) ***************************************************************