Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 27 Jan 2002 to 28 Jan 2002 (#2002-28) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 29/01/2002, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 5 messages totalling 911 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. spheres for specialty priests (long) (2) 2. specialty priests discussion (2) 3. MYSTARA-L Digest - 27 Jan 2002 to 28 Jan 2002 - Unfinished ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 12:09:32 +0100 From: hador Subject: Re: spheres for specialty priests (long) Interesting work I saved it and I'll read it with attention. Why Valerias-Necromantic? Did anyone write it for third edition? Hi, Nadia ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:34:40 +0100 From: Knud Gentz Subject: specialty priests discussion Hi there, >> PS if it is okay to post attachments I can provide an excel spreadsheet >> containing the information with better layout and some calculating > >No, attachments would be unreadable to digest users. You should put it >on a website instead, and post here a link. I started creating a table on a webpage, but quickly gave up since such large tables are arkward to handle and it would be quite an effort to keep them up to date, so i simply put the excel spreadsheet up: http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs339 There you will find the immortals powers as well as some numbers on how I calculated the relative powers. Comments on those calculations are welcome as well. >> Used material: >> (4) Tome of Magic: time spells (see Khoronus). I did not include spells >> from other tome spheres since they seem to be quite experimental and at >> least partly covered by some mystaran specialties (eg travellers sphere vs >> mystaran merchant spells). > >Uhm, I find the Chaos and Law spheres to be especially appropriate to >Philosophers and specialty priests of strongly aligned Immortals. I have added them in some places. >> al-Kalim: All animal charm Combat Creation elemental guardian Healing plant >> protection sun Weather > >Divination is really needed here (the OD&D clerics of the Eternal Truth >and the Desert Druids had some special divinations). Elemental, OTOH, >should not include Fire. Necromancy could be included (not the reverse >spells), and Charm could be dropped, too. >However, it looks fairly balanced. >Ah, I'd let them use the Ylari traditional weapons (Scimitar and >Jambiya). divination sounds good, but makes him grant quite a number of spells for an initiate (I have tried to base this on the immortals status), so I'd agree on Divination but am reluctant to grant Necromancy, while taking away charm and fire >> Alphaks: All Charm Combat divination elemental Healing (rev only) >> Necromantic plant (rev) Weather >> backstab as thief, control undead +2 (to die roll), detect good at will, >> curse 1/d > >Necromantic should be reverse only, IMO. Elemental should be limited to >Fire. >To balance these reduced spellcasting abilities, one could add the War >and Chaos spheres from the Tome of Magic. Also Sun could be added. I agree, only I'd leave out sun. >> Alphatia All animal Charm Creation divination Guardian Healing Necromantic >> plant Protection sun >> save +2 vs spells and rod/staff/wand, cast 1 school of wizard spells as if >> they were clerical spells, no armor, no turning > >I'd limit the choice of the wizard school to some extent (barring >necromancy, invocation and conjuration, probably). I don't think this necessary. These schools can be used benevolently and Alphatia will see to it, that they are. The price for this is the very limited combat ability and no turning. >> Asterius All animal Charm Combat creation Divination guardian healing plant >> protection weather >> may use thieves weapons, move silently as thief, hide in shadows as thief, >> cast merchant spells as if they were clerical spells > >Assuming they still have TU, they seem fairly powerful. I'd probably >limit them to bardic armor. I must admit to not knowing what TU is, but I like the bardic armor limit >> Atzanteotl All Astral Charm Combat Elemental (Earth) Healing Necromantic >> immune to alignment detection, only use piercing or inca weapons, command >> undead, cause light wounds 3/d, detect good at will, cast enchantment/charm >> spells as if they were cleric spells > >Quite powerful, IMO. Some armor limits could be in order. Hmm, I thought him to be not that powerful compared to other hierarchs. >> Djaea All Animal Creation Divination Elemental (Earth air fire water) >> guardian Healing Necromantic Plant Protection sun weather > >Quite powerful. Perhaps minor access to Elemental (except full access to >Earth) Well, sorry for being somewhat sloppy in my notation, (Earth air fire water) meant exactly full Earth, minor to the other 3, so I think we agree here. But I admit that still makes her one of the most powerful of the whole bunch >> The Great One All Animal Astral Combat Divination Elemental Healing >Protection >> fly 1/d, learn dragon languages, change to half-dragon form 1/d > >Perhaps fly and dragon form should be available only at higher levels >(5-9). How about fly at 5th half-dragon at 9th level? >> Ilsundal All Animal Creation Divination Guardian Healing Necromantic Plant >> Protection Sun >> never surprised > >I'd rather have Alertness bonus proficiency and minor access to >Elemental (Fire, Air). Alertness is fine, but why fire? since he created the first tree of life, wouldn't earth be more appropriate? >> Ixion All animal Creation Divination Elemental (Fire) Healing necromantic >> Plant Protection Sun >> cast wizard elemental fire spells as if they were cleric spells, produce >> flame 2/d, turn undead at +1 > >Sounds quite powerful. Perhaps animal and/or plant should be removed. My original design included major necromancy while removing both. but since he is father of the centaur race and 'particularly venerated by the forest races' (as stated in the Immortals of the known world) I found them both to be quite necessary. any other idea? perhaps banning reversed spells from healing and necromantic might be called for? >> Kagyar All Charm Creation divination Elemental Guardian Healing Protection >> save at +1 vs spells and rod/staff/wand, may use axes and crossbows, artist >> bonus proficiency, +1 consitution > >Elemental should be limited to Earth, IMO. Weapon usage should be >extended to all weapon, but with no xp gained when using non-dwarven >weapons, as per the gazetteer (of course, this refers to dwarven priests >only). I regrettably do not have the gazetteer, but this sounds good to me. >> Karaash All Combat divination Healing Necromantic protection >> may use crossbows, str and con bonus as fighter, d10 hit points per level > >May also use swords. I find him to be extremely powerful for an initiate already, but since he is _the_ immortal for orcs and other humanoids (at least from those listed here) I agree. >> Koryis All Charm Divination Guardian Healing Necromantic protection weather >> protection from evil 1/d, friends 1/d > >Pacifists: little armor and weaponry. Compensate with extra power. This >one comes from an old Dragon article and should be appropriate: > >"Calming aura (20): Priests with this ability can remove fear with their >touch as per spell. By their mere presence, these priests can alter the >moods of those around them, causing all hostile creatures within 158 to >make >a successful saving throw vs. spells each round or become non hostile. >Undead are immune to this effect. This power does not function if the >priest >himself is performing hostile actions. Both aspects of this power >function >continuously, as long as the priest is conscious." wonderful power for him. > >> Loki > >Ok. Note that Loki would be a major candidate for the Chaos sphere. agreed >> Masauwu All Charm Creation Divination Healing Necromantic summoning >> persuasion bonus proficiency, cast enchanment/charm spells as if they were >> priest spells, undetectable alignment, fast talk bonus proficiency > >I'd remove the Healing sphere I prefer limiting it to reversed spells, otherwise he should get a little extra, since he is already a 'underachiever' , although he grants enchantment/charm wizard spells >> Noumena All Astral combat Divination Elemental healing Sun >> detect hidden doors as elf, permanent true seeing, cast wizard divination >> spells as if they were priest spells > >Permanent True Seeing seems rather powerful. Note that Noumena would be >perfect for Thought sphere. It is, but he has quite a limited selection of spells despite access to wizard enchantment spells to make up for it. Add Thought. >> Nyx All Combat Creation elemental (rev) Healing (rev) Necromantic (rev) >> Protection Sun (rev) >> darkness 1(d*lvl) (max 3), +1 to hit and damage in darkness, cont. darkness >> 1/d, command undead as 3 lvl higher > >I'd replace Elemental with Summoning, also for balance purposes. I concur >> Odin All animal Astral Charm Combat Divination Elemental (Air Earth) >> Guardian Healing protection summoning Weather >> may use spears, javelins, pikes, may cast find familiar (raven) > >Only Elemental Air, IMO. I find Earth quite appropriate, but would be willing to give it up for something I read about but couldn't research. Odins clerics might be able to use power runes as described in the northern reaches gaz. but since I don't have that one I have no idea how powerful they'd be. any suggestions? >> Orcus All Combat Elemental Healing (rev) Necromantic (rev) >> -2 to armor class vs demi-humans, cast invocation spells as if they were >> priest spells, control undead, str bonus as fighters > >The Invocation school is very powerful, and the Elemental sphere is the >largest of the priest spheres. I'd remove the second (perhaps replacing >it with minor access to the summoning sphere). >Also, the priest might become a lycanthrope (this could be a power or >not). The combination is quite powerful and its also devastating, which is the main purpose. From the Immortals of the known world: 'Orcus lives to destroy - people, places or things. He has no other interests beyond mass destruction.' Meaning I would first take the str bonus and/or the AC bonus, perhaps the healing and necromantic access (even though rev only). >> Petra All charm Combat Divination Guardian Healing Necromantic Protection sun >> +1 strength, leadership bonus proficiency > >I'd find the +1 strenght bonus not especially fitting. I'd have >something like a -1 bonus to AC, or a protection from evil 3/day. To me the AC bonus seems quite less powerful than the str bonus. perhaps armor class bonus _and_ protection f. evil? or a wisdom bonus instead str? >> Pflarr All Combat Creation Divination elemental Guardian Healing >> Necromantic Protection >> hear noise as thief > >Use thief weapon, limited to thief armor. Also may cast some wizard >spells. Remove Combat and minor access to Elemental instead. as per his description he was something of a guardian, thus I'd rather limit to bardic armor and not remove combat. how about access to abjurations instead minor elemental? >> Protius All Animal combat Creation Elemental (Water earth) Healing >> Necromantic Plant Protection Weather >> may use trident, swimming movement as land based, cannot drown > >Elemental: Water only. May also use piercing weapons (except bows) >instead of blunt weapons. Cast spells from the Water Elemental wizard >school. No access to the combat sphere. agreed >> Rad All Astral combat Creation Divination Elemental guardian healing >> necromantic >> +1 intelligence, +1 wisdom > >IMO, all priests should actually be wizards, and get no special powers, >except a +1 Int bonus. that would mean, a player wanting to be a wizard could play a cleric of rad instead and get a +1 int bonus, alhough something special shpuld be done abput him. Obviously nobody in his 'homeland' Glantri would be able to openly support him as his cleric. Limit his 'priest-wizards' to conjurers? that would grant the usual bonuses in addition to the +1 int but it would remove the coveted invocation and divination schools from their grasp. >> Rafiel All Astral Charm Creation Divination elemental guardian Healing >> Necromantic Protection >> save at +1 vs spells and rod/staff/wand, engineering bonus proficiency > >These are in the official conversion document for the SE: >"Shamans have access to a broad base of spells, including the >following spheres: All, Charm, Divination, Elemental, Healing, >Necromantic, and Protection. " Rafiels clerics are not necessarily shamans, IMO. >> Rathanos All Astral Combat Creation Divination Elemental Guardian Healing >> Necromantic Sun >> resist fire 1/d, produce fire 1/d, use wizardly magic items > >Elemental should be Fire only, perhaps compensate with access to Fire >Elem. wizard school. His main interest is the transformation from matter to energy. while being fascinated with fire, I'd rather leave him the complete elementals but no wiz. fire. >> Razud All Charm combat Creation Divination Guardian Healing Plant >> Protection summoning Sun Weather >> +1 wisdom, +1 to personal initiative > >Perhaps also the Survival proficiency would be appropriate. Sounds good to me >> Talitha All Charm combat Creation Divination elemental Healing Protection >> summoning Sun (rev) weather >> pick pockets as thief, backstab as thief, may use thieves weapons > >Thief armor only, minor access to Elemental. She has minor elemental. Perhaps some compensation for limiting armor might be called for: chaos sphere or some more thief abilities? >> Tarastia All charm Combat Divination elemental Guardian Healing Necromantic >> protection summoning >> may use axes, detect lie at will, detect evil 2/d, d10 hit points per level > >Good candidate for the Law sphere. Detect Lie should probably be 3/day >for balance, also Elemental should be limited to here sphere. law sounds good, limiting detect lie should be no problem. perhaps no elemental at all to compensate for law? >> Terra All Animal combat Creation Elemental guardian Healing Necromantic >> Plant Protection sun Weather >> speak with animals at will, no turning > >Elemental: Earth only. Also spells form the wizardly school of Elemental >Earth. Terra is mother earth, I think she should retain full access to elemental. >> Thanatos All Astral Charm Combat creation divination Elemental guardian >> Healing Necromantic Summoning >> must use scythe as weapon, command undead as 1 lvl higher > >I'd soften the weapon limitation (very harsh!) to must devote his first >proficiency slot to scythe. Other proficiencies can go to other curved >blades. >Command Undead as 3 level higher, but no access to elemental and >especially creation. Also, cast spells from the wizardly school of >necromancy. >Healing and Necromancy: reverse only. yep >> Thor All animal Combat Elemental (Water Air fire earth) Guardian Healing >> necromantic Protection summoning weather >> may use axes, d10 hit points per level, +1 strength > >Only Elemental Air. Call lighting 1/day. May use hammers. all clerics may use hammers, IMO. perhaps major access to weather might be appropriate? and access to war. >> Valerias All Astral Charm combat Creation Divination elemental Guardian >> Healing Necromantic Protection Sun >> locate 1/d, remove fear 1/d, ventriloquism 1/d > >Charm spells as if the priest was one level higher. Minor access to >Elemental. +1 Charisma. She has minor elemental, I like the rest, although that makes her quite powerful. >> Vanya All Combat divination Guardian Healing Necromantic Protection >> summoning Sun >> may use swords, daggers, lances, blind fighting bonus proficiency, may >> specialize as fighters > >Weapon of Choice instead of specialization and blind fighting. Must >learn one sword (long, broad, bastard or two-handed) and one lance >(medium or heavy) at first level. I'd still prefer specialization, but am willing to yield. Bye Knud ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 20:23:22 +0100 From: Agathokles Subject: Re: spheres for specialty priests (long) hador wrote: > > Why Valerias-Necromantic? Necromantic clerical spells include Raise Dead and the like. This is a major problem in the AD&D spheres, since it mixes "good" spells with "evil" ones (like Animated Dead). Myself, I'd allow priests of Valerias to cast only the restoration-oriented necromantic spells, not those related to animating dead (or just the reverse spells). -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 21:20:34 +0100 From: Agathokles Subject: Re: specialty priests discussion Knud Gentz wrote: > > I started creating a table on a webpage, but quickly gave up since such > large tables are arkward to handle and it would be quite an effort to keep > them up to date, so i simply put the excel spreadsheet up: > > http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs339 Ok, I'll take a look ASAP. > >> al-Kalim: All animal charm Combat Creation elemental guardian Healing plant > >> protection sun Weather > > > >Divination is really needed here (the OD&D clerics of the Eternal Truth > >and the Desert Druids had some special divinations). Elemental, OTOH, > >should not include Fire. Necromancy could be included (not the reverse > >spells), and Charm could be dropped, too. > >However, it looks fairly balanced. > >Ah, I'd let them use the Ylari traditional weapons (Scimitar and > >Jambiya). > > divination sounds good, but makes him grant quite a number of spells for an > initiate (I have tried to base this on the immortals status), so I'd agree > on Divination but am reluctant to grant Necromancy, while taking away charm > and fire Yes, in the end these would represent more the desert druids than the standard Ylari clergy, so Necromancy is probably out of place. You may also want to limit healing to minor (IIRC, the gaz doesn't give healing spells). > >> Alphatia All animal Charm Creation divination Guardian Healing Necromantic > >I'd limit the choice of the wizard school to some extent (barring > >necromancy, invocation and conjuration, probably). > > I don't think this necessary. These schools can be used benevolently and > Alphatia will see to it, that they are. The price for this is the very > limited combat ability and no turning. Ok. What about giving them two schools, but having them learn spells (only the wizardly spells) as wizards? > >> Asterius All animal Charm Combat creation Divination guardian healing plant > >> protection weather > >> may use thieves weapons, move silently as thief, hide in shadows as thief, > >> cast merchant spells as if they were clerical spells > > > >Assuming they still have TU, they seem fairly powerful. I'd probably > >limit them to bardic armor. > > I must admit to not knowing what TU is, but I like the bardic armor limit Sorry! It meant Turn Undead. > >> Atzanteotl All Astral Charm Combat Elemental (Earth) Healing Necromantic > >> immune to alignment detection, only use piercing or inca weapons, command > >> undead, cause light wounds 3/d, detect good at will, cast enchantment/charm > >> spells as if they were cleric spells > > > >Quite powerful, IMO. Some armor limits could be in order. > > Hmm, I thought him to be not that powerful compared to other hierarchs. Well, consider that they have a permanently active power and one at will (in addition to the standard command undead), can cast spells from a powerful wizardly school, and have a good, if limited, selection of clerical spells. Also, the weapon is not that limited, as they can use a full class of weapons (percing), plus all inca weapon (which would probably include some bladed and blunt weapons). > >> Djaea All Animal Creation Divination Elemental (Earth air fire water) > >> guardian Healing Necromantic Plant Protection sun weather > > > >Quite powerful. Perhaps minor access to Elemental (except full access to > >Earth) > > Well, sorry for being somewhat sloppy in my notation, (Earth air fire > water) meant exactly full Earth, minor to the other 3, so I think we agree > here. > But I admit that still makes her one of the most powerful of the whole bunch Oh, that way it would be ok. I didn't note the capitalized notation... > >> The Great One All Animal Astral Combat Divination Elemental Healing > >Protection > >> fly 1/d, learn dragon languages, change to half-dragon form 1/d > > > >Perhaps fly and dragon form should be available only at higher levels > >(5-9). > > How about fly at 5th half-dragon at 9th level? Yes, something like that. > >> Ilsundal All Animal Creation Divination Guardian Healing Necromantic Plant > >> Protection Sun > >> never surprised > > > >I'd rather have Alertness bonus proficiency and minor access to > >Elemental (Fire, Air). > > Alertness is fine, but why fire? since he created the first tree of life, > wouldn't earth be more appropriate? Because of his sphere allegiance (he is part of the Sphere of Energy, which is linked with the element of Fire). > >> Ixion All animal Creation Divination Elemental (Fire) Healing necromantic > >> Plant Protection Sun > >> cast wizard elemental fire spells as if they were cleric spells, produce > >> flame 2/d, turn undead at +1 > > > >Sounds quite powerful. Perhaps animal and/or plant should be removed. > > My original design included major necromancy while removing both. but since > he is father of the centaur race and 'particularly venerated by the forest > races' (as stated in the Immortals of the known world) I found them both to > be quite necessary. any other idea? perhaps banning reversed spells from > healing and necromantic might be called for? Probably, as I said in a previous post, Ixion should have several classes of specialty priests (Oltec/Azcan, Centaur, Enduk/Nimmurian, Narvaezan/Thyatian, Goblinoid, Ethengaran, and Sindhi in three different flavours). When I wrote my comment, I was thinking of the Narvaezan clergy, which would have major necromancy and healing (both standard and reverse), but not animal/plant. Of course things would be different for other races. I'd seriously consider doing a least three versions (Oltec/Azcan+Goblinoid+Ethengaran, Narvaezan/Thyatian, Enduk/Nimmurian+Centaur), leaving Sindhi clergy to be non-specialists or to fit in one of the other three. > >> Kagyar All Charm Creation divination Elemental Guardian Healing Protection > >> save at +1 vs spells and rod/staff/wand, may use axes and crossbows, artist > >> bonus proficiency, +1 consitution > > > >Elemental should be limited to Earth, IMO. Weapon usage should be > >extended to all weapon, but with no xp gained when using non-dwarven > >weapons, as per the gazetteer (of course, this refers to dwarven priests > >only). > > I regrettably do not have the gazetteer, but this sounds good to me. Ok, note that those considerations do not apply to specialty priests of the Brute-Men, of course. > >> Karaash All Combat divination Healing Necromantic protection > >> may use crossbows, str and con bonus as fighter, d10 hit points per level > > > >May also use swords. > > I find him to be extremely powerful for an initiate already, but since he > is _the_ immortal for orcs and other humanoids (at least from those listed > here) I agree. Well, you could remove use crossbow, and add a compulsory wepon proficiency slot to be spent in the sword, or limit the hit points (no warrior con bonus, or d8 hp per die). > >> Koryis All Charm Divination Guardian Healing Necromantic protection weather > >"Calming aura (20): Priests with this ability can remove fear with their > > wonderful power for him. Yes, I got it from an article in Dragon, which was among the free backissues. It has other interesting powers, so I'll reread it and suggest something for other Immortals as well. > >> Masauwu All Charm Creation Divination Healing Necromantic summoning > >> persuasion bonus proficiency, cast enchanment/charm spells as if they were > >> priest spells, undetectable alignment, fast talk bonus proficiency > > > >I'd remove the Healing sphere > > I prefer limiting it to reversed spells, otherwise he should get a little > extra, since he is already a 'underachiever' , although he grants > enchantment/charm wizard spells Yes, but consider that he is not an aggressive immortal. The priests could get command undead as a compensation, instead. > >> Noumena All Astral combat Divination Elemental healing Sun > >> detect hidden doors as elf, permanent true seeing, cast wizard divination > >> spells as if they were priest spells > > > >Permanent True Seeing seems rather powerful. Note that Noumena would be > >perfect for Thought sphere. > > It is, but he has quite a limited selection of spells despite access to > wizard enchantment spells to make up for it. Add Thought. If you want to widen the spell selection, you could add also Numbers (though this is really one of the more "experimental" spheres). You could consider this power, OTOH: Divine recognition (15): A priest with this power can identify the name and history of an object, person, or event relevant to his field of worship. For every level up to 5th, the priest's chance are 10% per level. From 6th to 10th, an addition 5% per level is added, and from 11th level on, an extra 3% per level is added. This power may be used as often as the priest wishes, but it requires a full round. Only one attempt may be made per target, however. Once the priest gains a level, he may make another attempt on a target if he failed the first time. A priest of war, for example, could identify the number and training of an opposing army within his sight. A priest who worships art can determine the value of a painting and the talent of the artist. Magic-worshiping priests can identify an item's general function. A priest of truth/justice can tell if a person is lying or cheating. (from the same source as calming aura) > >> Odin All animal Astral Charm Combat Divination Elemental (Air Earth) > >> Guardian Healing protection summoning Weather > >> may use spears, javelins, pikes, may cast find familiar (raven) > > > >Only Elemental Air, IMO. > > I find Earth quite appropriate, but would be willing to give it up for > something I read about but couldn't research. Odins clerics might be able > to use power runes as described in the northern reaches gaz. but since I > don't have that one I have no idea how powerful they'd be. any suggestions? Can't remember right now, but will check the gaz when I find the time. > >> Orcus All Combat Elemental Healing (rev) Necromantic (rev) > >> -2 to armor class vs demi-humans, cast invocation spells as if they were > >> priest spells, control undead, str bonus as fighters > > > >The Invocation school is very powerful, and the Elemental sphere is the > >largest of the priest spheres. I'd remove the second (perhaps replacing > >it with minor access to the summoning sphere). > >Also, the priest might become a lycanthrope (this could be a power or > >not). > > The combination is quite powerful and its also devastating, which is the > main purpose. From the Immortals of the known world: > 'Orcus lives to destroy - people, places or things. He has no other > interests beyond mass destruction.' > Meaning I would first take the str bonus and/or the AC bonus, perhaps the > healing and necromantic access (even though rev only). Yes, but the Elemental sphere doesn't seem too appropriate (that's why I would take it rather than the Invocation sphere), as it has little to do with destruction. OTOH, the reversed spheres are very appropriate, so I'd leave them there. Also, Orcus doesn't seem to have a special interest in the elements. Note that from other sources, we know that Orcus is interested in lycanthropes, especially Devil Swine. A "Command Lycanthrope" power could be in order... > >> Petra All charm Combat Divination Guardian Healing Necromantic > Protection sun > >> +1 strength, leadership bonus proficiency > > > >I'd find the +1 strenght bonus not especially fitting. I'd have > >something like a -1 bonus to AC, or a protection from evil 3/day. > > To me the AC bonus seems quite less powerful than the str bonus. perhaps > armor class bonus _and_ protection f. evil? or a wisdom bonus instead str? I'd go for AC bonus and protection f. evil, though I don't think an AC bonus would be less useful than a str bonus: avg str for the priest of Petra could be 11, perhaps 12 or even 13 if the requirements are steep, and a +1 would give no bonus at all. To benefit from the bonus, you would need at least a str score of 15, which is already quite uncommon. > >> Pflarr All Combat Creation Divination elemental Guardian Healing > >> Necromantic Protection > >> hear noise as thief > > > >Use thief weapon, limited to thief armor. Also may cast some wizard > >spells. Remove Combat and minor access to Elemental instead. > > as per his description he was something of a guardian, thus I'd rather > limit to bardic armor and not remove combat. > how about access to abjurations instead minor elemental? Yes, it would be good. However, note that while he was a guardian as a mortal, as an Immortal he is rather a protector of art and craftmanship. He protects through the creation of defensive structures rather than by combat. I'd probably give a small selection of appropriate Alteration spells as well. > >> Rad All Astral combat Creation Divination Elemental guardian healing > >> necromantic > >> +1 intelligence, +1 wisdom > > > >IMO, all priests should actually be wizards, and get no special powers, > >except a +1 Int bonus. > > that would mean, a player wanting to be a wizard could play a cleric of rad > instead and get a +1 int bonus, alhough something special shpuld be done > abput him. Obviously nobody in his 'homeland' Glantri would be able to > openly support him as his cleric. Limit his 'priest-wizards' to conjurers? > that would grant the usual bonuses in addition to the +1 int but it would > remove the coveted invocation and divination schools from their grasp. You could give a -1 Wis as per gazetteer to counterbalance the int bonus. "Priests" of Rad would be legal in Glantri, but known as Shepherds of Rad (Rad is just a name for the magic energies in Glantri, not the name of the Immortal). But that's just another way to say that Rad has no cleric. His followers are classed as Wizards. They can be of any kind, though specialists would be uncommon. > >> Rafiel All Astral Charm Creation Divination elemental guardian Healing > >> Necromantic Protection > >> save at +1 vs spells and rod/staff/wand, engineering bonus proficiency > > > >These are in the official conversion document for the SE: > >"Shamans have access to a broad base of spells, including the > >following spheres: All, Charm, Divination, Elemental, Healing, > >Necromantic, and Protection. " > > Rafiels clerics are not necessarily shamans, IMO. Yes, but at the time, he has few (or no) priests beyond the Shadow Elves (whose priests are only Shamans). > >> Rathanos All Astral Combat Creation Divination Elemental Guardian Healing > >> Necromantic Sun > >> resist fire 1/d, produce fire 1/d, use wizardly magic items > > > >Elemental should be Fire only, perhaps compensate with access to Fire > >Elem. wizard school. > > His main interest is the transformation from matter to energy. while being > fascinated with fire, I'd rather leave him the complete elementals but no > wiz. fire. Well, actually the followers of Rathanos are true fanatics of Fire (the original Magian Fire Worshippers were followers of Rathanos). He has little interest in other elemental spheres. > >> Talitha All Charm combat Creation Divination elemental Healing Protection > >> summoning Sun (rev) weather > >> pick pockets as thief, backstab as thief, may use thieves weapons > > > >Thief armor only, minor access to Elemental. > > She has minor elemental. Perhaps some compensation for limiting armor might > be called for: chaos sphere or some more thief abilities? Yes, I did not catch the notation at all :( Chaos would be ok, perhaps also hide in shadows as a thief of 1/2 level. > >> Tarastia All charm Combat Divination elemental Guardian Healing Necromantic > >> protection summoning > >> may use axes, detect lie at will, detect evil 2/d, d10 hit points per level > > > >Good candidate for the Law sphere. Detect Lie should probably be 3/day > >for balance, also Elemental should be limited to here sphere. > > law sounds good, limiting detect lie should be no problem. perhaps no > elemental at all to compensate for law? Well, it's already minor, and reducing it to 1 sphere should be ok. If you want to limit the priest's power, perhaps removing the hit point bonus should be more appropriate (for Thyatian priests, not for Jennites). > >> Terra All Animal combat Creation Elemental guardian Healing Necromantic > >> Plant Protection sun Weather > >> speak with animals at will, no turning > > > >Elemental: Earth only. Also spells form the wizardly school of Elemental > >Earth. > > Terra is mother earth, I think she should retain full access to elemental. Yes, but she is mostly an elemental power, not a druidic one. That's why I think their powers revolve more on the specific element than on the generic elemental sphere. Another choice would be to remove the opposing sphere, and keep the other two as minor access. > >> Thor All animal Combat Elemental (Water Air fire earth) Guardian Healing > >> necromantic Protection summoning weather > >> may use axes, d10 hit points per level, +1 strength > > > >Only Elemental Air. Call lighting 1/day. May use hammers. > > all clerics may use hammers, IMO. perhaps major access to weather might be > appropriate? and access to war. Sorry, yes, assume free proficiency... also major access to weather and war is a good idea. Remove Necromantic instead. > >> Valerias All Astral Charm combat Creation Divination elemental Guardian > >> Healing Necromantic Protection Sun > >> locate 1/d, remove fear 1/d, ventriloquism 1/d > > > >Charm spells as if the priest was one level higher. Minor access to > >Elemental. +1 Charisma. > > She has minor elemental, I like the rest, although that makes her quite > powerful. Well, ok you could remove some spheres (I think she's from the Sphere of Energy, so earth could be removed). Or just remove all the elemental, and give full access to Combat (she's linked with weaponry in Thyatis, IIRC) > >> Vanya All Combat divination Guardian Healing Necromantic Protection > >> summoning Sun > >> may use swords, daggers, lances, blind fighting bonus proficiency, may > >> specialize as fighters > > > >Weapon of Choice instead of specialization and blind fighting. Must > >learn one sword (long, broad, bastard or two-handed) and one lance > >(medium or heavy) at first level. > > I'd still prefer specialization, but am willing to yield. Weapon of Choice is more powerful (warrior THAC0 with that weapon). You could always compensate with other limitations (reduced access to sun, for ex.). Also, the Crusader class could be used. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 23:23:56 +0100 From: Knud Gentz Subject: Re: MYSTARA-L Digest - 27 Jan 2002 to 28 Jan 2002 - Unfinished Hi > Interesting work I saved it and I'll read it with attention. > Why Valerias-Necromantic? As patroness of love (and thus of life and life-giving) I thought it appropriate. Bye Knud ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 27 Jan 2002 to 28 Jan 2002 (#2002-28) ***************************************************************