Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 20 Nov 2002 to 21 Nov 2002 (#2002-303) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 22/11/2002, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There is one message totalling 323 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Gold (changed title back to gold...) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 07:47:43 -0800 From: Darth Darknerd Subject: Re: Gold (changed title back to gold...) I like your points, but there is one difference. Native Americans, Africans, and other peoples are essentially human. And though historically, some groups were not treated as human, especially native americans, there was still trade. Take a group of sentient creatures like kolbolds and other 'noids; These groups are not human and are treated as monsters to be heroically slayed. Would humans readily trade with them? Also, as many 'noids are the bane of most civilizations, would they trade with them? Certainly evil human groups, like criminal organizations, cultists, etc. would do this to acquire wealth, and then in turn buy products in other civilizations, as they are humans (passing off as good citizens :). Other campaign concept to consider. Possibly some non-evil humans of the unscrupulous sort could trade with humanoids, especially in weapons. These individuals could be driven by greed. Though arming humanoids does pose a consequence for neighboring towns. How would the government take this? Would trade with humanoids be outlawed? Could it be treasonous? Would trade be allowed, except for weapons? Or should humanoids be killed on the spot? Or is this something not addressed? I feel that in simple monarchy such as Karameikos, they might take it case by case basis. Obviously arming hordes of humanoids will not be taken lightly. In Darokin, certainly the trade of arms is strictly outlawed, especially to the orcs. Trade in general might be prohibited, as this could increase of wealth of unfriendly neighbors. Most nations in the real world outlawed trade with the enemy, and sometimes with competitive colonial nations. Piracy upon the enemy or competitive nation was encouraged, i.e. privateers. --- Automatic digest processor wrote: > ATTACHMENT part 1 message/rfc822 > Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:00:22 -0800 > From: Automatic digest processor > > Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 19 Nov 2002 to 20 Nov > 2002 (#2002-302) > To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests > > > There are 5 messages totalling 205 lines in this > issue. > > Topics of the day: > > 1. MYSTARA-L Digest - 17 Nov 2002 to 18 Nov 2002 > (#2002-300) > 2. tradewinds question (3) > 3. Gold > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822 > Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:53:26 EST > From: Alex Benson > Subject: Re: MYSTARA-L Digest - 17 Nov 2002 to 18 > Nov 2002 (#2002-300) > > < focusing on the koldbold, here's some questions: > 1. How would the kolbold get money?>> > > Raiding works well as it is also fits with many noid > cultures. I'd also > suggest that alot of items are found. Perhaps coming > across corpses of those > slain by creatures with no need for gold (ex. > wolves). > > <<2. Who would he trade the money with?>> > > Other things that gold is used for besides simply > purchases are it > malleability and appearance. This is seen near > universally through cultures > within the real world as valuable, both to the eye > and in actual use. But as > for who the kobold could or would trade his gold > with is an interesting > premise, one of many could be (and have been used) > as primary plot points for > adventures. > > As they are, few noids have any real industries. > What they cannot get from > raiding would have to be gained from human sellers. > I imagine that alot of > this can be related to real world US Old West > history. Native Americans were > totally dependant upon white settlers for simple > items such as ammunition and > basic iron weaponry. This can also be seen in > southern African history with > the Zulus. More recent history shows similarities in > the middle-east where > the arabic nations must buy weapons and luxery items > from western markets. > All of which had a common trait; they lacked the > industrial base and had > something to trade. > > A weird twist is that Israel fell into this same > situation, being dependant > upon foriegn markets and captured equipment. > However, Israel has made > dramatic moves to create its own industrial system > and has done quite well. > This is especially so for a nation in its > social/political situation and > lacking any domestic oil fields. > > ATTACHMENT part 3 message/rfc822 > Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:30:20 -0800 > From: Joe Kelly > Subject: tradewinds question > > Does anyone have any ideas in regards to Wind and > Sea currents for the KW? > > ATTACHMENT part 4 message/rfc822 > Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:17:25 -0800 > From: Darth Darknerd > Subject: Re: Gold > > Ooops, forgot to chang the title... > ------------------------------------------- > > Makes sense. Steering the topic a little bit and > focusing on the koldbold, here's some questions: > > 1. How would the kolbold get money? > 2. Who would he trade the money with? > > The kolbold could generally rob other humans, much > like human bandits and highwaymen, but who would the > kolbold trade with? The bandit or highwayman can go > into a village and spend his/her money, but the > kolbold couldn't just walk into a city and do the > same > thing. > > If I might be so bold as to say that to have a > setting > where monsters are there to be slayed and have a > random number of coins of a given treasure type, > makes > the game like a video game, such as Diablo. > > However, if a group of criminals, let's say the Iron > Ring, supplied the monsters with metal weapons or > other desirable items in exchange for the gold coins > that the humans carry... I'm sure you can guess the > results. > > The humanoids now have a driving incentive to get > coins, as someone will give them things they want. > The players might not be able to slay all of the > tribes of humanoids in the region, but if they snuff > out the suplier, e.g. Iron Ring, the humanoids loose > their opportunity to buy things. > > Note that my reasoning applies to humanoids living > on > the fringes of civilized society where there are > limited opportunties for commerce, e.g. being slayed > on the spot discourages trade. Massive organized > humanoids, such as those under the Broken Lands, can > have a whole internal infastructure, crafts, goods, > etc. and so, raiding becomes an important career. > > - Joaquin > > > Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 07:48:01 EST > > From: Alex Benson > > Subject: Re: Gold > > > > Once again...I appologize for the delay since the > > original thread was posted. > > The common nature of gold is addressed in the ADnD > > DM's Guide. From what I > > remember, it is explained that real world > economics > > be ignored when dealing > > with gold. In real world terms, a simple gold coin > > would be quite a sum of > > money, feeding a family for months. But in a > fantasy > > setting, that same gold > > piece may buy a stout of ale. It really goes down > to > > supply and demand. With > > more gold available, the value is decreased. > > > > A possible solution to an overkill in gold and > gems > > could be substituting > > copper coins and items that that creature would > have > > and would be carrying. > > Make that loot horde equal to the financial gold > > equivilent as given in > > official sources. A kobold may be carrying a pouch > > of copper coins of various > > mintings, a small lump of gold (because it's > > pretty), an uncut gem, etc. > > Other items may include usefull items like beads, > a > > piece of hide, items that > > a kobold may find a delicacy, items to make > arrows, > > etc. A good model is no > > further away than an actual person. Look in your > > deskdrawer. Look in the > > console of your car. Look in your wallet. What > items > > do you find? Now back > > date them to the middle-ages and put them in a > > creature's mindset. > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site > http://webhosting.yahoo.com > > ATTACHMENT part 5 message/rfc822 > Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:45:41 +0100 > From: Thibault Sarlat > > Subject: Re: tradewinds question > > there were indications of sea current in one of the > PWA maps (PWA II i > think). > > > Thibault Sarlat. > ICQ 16622177. > homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st > Join me > at:thibault.sarlat@wanadoo.fr;clenarius@hotmail.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Kelly" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 9:30 PM > Subject: [MYSTARA] tradewinds question > > > Does anyone have any ideas in regards to Wind and > Sea currents for the KW? > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ATTACHMENT part 6 message/rfc822 > Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 23:35:07 -0500 > From: David Knott > Subject: Re: tradewinds question > > From: "Joe Kelly" > > > Does anyone have any ideas in regards to Wind and > Sea currents for > > the KW? > > The two trail maps for Mystara have full information > in that regard. > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 20 Nov 2002 to 21 Nov 2002 (#2002-303) ****************************************************************