Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 30 Jan 2002 to 31 Jan 2002 (#2002-31) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 01/02/2002, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 12 messages totalling 360 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Is dragon breath magic? (6) 2. AM (was: Is dragon breath magic?) 3. MYSTARA-L Digest - 29 Jan 2002 to 30 Jan 2002 (#2002-30) 4. MYSTARA-L Digest - 29 Jan 2002 to 30 Jan 2002 (#2002-30) 5. The Kingdom of Ierenoi ESD (2) 6. update on mystara.fr.st, new maps added!!! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 12:03:09 +0100 From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Is dragon breath magic? The Stalker wrote: > >I've always considered dragon breath a purely natural attack but with = the > intensity of a magical one (dragons are just so special), so regular > protections won't help and magical ones will only give limited = protection > (such as the ring of fire resistance against red dragon breath). > =20 > So how do you deal with this in game terms? Does general protections > against magic (magic resistance, etc.) have any affect at all, or do = only > spells and items that specifically state their protection against such > attacks offer any protections at all? I say that it's too intense for regular fire protections to do anything = about it, it is considered equivalent to magical fire where that matters = (same with other types of dragon breath attacks of course). I consider = it purely natural, so anti-magic doesn't help. But then I play OD&D and = don't have to deal with too many strange spells and such. ;) Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 12:45:00 -0000 From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: AM (was: Is dragon breath magic?) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Furneaux" To: Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 1:31 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] AM (was: Is dragon breath magic?) > Similarly, a fireball could be like a flame thrower, > the flames are hot and the fires real, the magic is to > continuously create the combustibles and to control > their movement. A large AM field would see a fireball > die within feet, but a personal one would offer little > protection. > Same for Ice storm: magically created real water and > magically made cold, still real, but the control of it > is magical. This AM fields effects it the same as it > would a fireball. > > OTOH there is no reason the spell could not just be > magical fire, rock, or ice... up to you. > Since we're talking Anti Magic and not magic resistance then unfortunately there is a detailed ruling on the above which clearly states that if you make your percentage then you suffer no effects from area spells ( Rules Cyclopedia p143-4). However it's your game so who else can really decide? ;^) Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 13:05:04 -0000 From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Is dragon breath magic? I know that it doesn't clear up the matter completely but when you add "An Immortal in Manifestation form is completely immune to all mortal magic spells and spell like effects (such as dragon breath.)" WotI bk1 p10, to "Breath weapons are not spells and cannot be turned or absorbed by devices or other protective spell effects except those that specifically mention dragon breath" RC p170, it seems, well to me anyway, that it's both magical and mundane. After all they had to make it clear that the immortal immunity did include dragon breath. Then again it's your game so your rules apply as usual. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:30:20 -0800 From: "Guth, Richard (Jr)" Subject: Re: MYSTARA-L Digest - 29 Jan 2002 to 30 Jan 2002 (#2002-30) During last night's session of 3rd edition D&D, my players were faced with trying to destory a gate linking the town of Threshold with the Abyss. The discussion came when the wizard suggested sacraficing himself by casting Leomund's (spelling) Tiny Hut on himself and walking into the open dimensional gate. In your oppinions, what exactly would happen? Would the gate explode as is suggested when two extradimensional planes cross or what? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 14:41:09 -0000 From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: MYSTARA-L Digest - 29 Jan 2002 to 30 Jan 2002 (#2002-30) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guth, Richard (Jr)" To: Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] MYSTARA-L Digest - 29 Jan 2002 to 30 Jan 2002 (#2002-30) > During last night's session of 3rd edition D&D, my players were faced with > trying to destory a gate linking the town of Threshold with the Abyss. > > The discussion came when the wizard suggested sacraficing himself by casting > Leomund's (spelling) Tiny Hut on himself and walking into the open > dimensional gate. > > In your oppinions, what exactly would happen? > > Would the gate explode as is suggested when two extradimensional planes > cross or what? > If you're playing 3rd edition then I have no idea but otherwise. Well first off the hut isn't mobile in 1st or 2nd edition so he couldn't have done it. Secondly it doesn't create an extra dimensional space in either 1st or 2nd edition merely a barrier against adverse conditions so the whole thing is moot. Thirdly gate in 1st and 2nd edition causes an INTERdimensional connection not an extradimensional one so no explosion even if he tried to use a bag of holding etc. All that would happen is that, unless the plane of the Abyss he arrives upon when he steps into the gate has a connection to the same space as the device he's using, won't work. But that's the least of his problems at that time of course! ;^) Usual caveat to this though it's your game so really only you can make the call. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 07:28:25 -0800 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Is dragon breath magic? If it helps any, in 3E, Dragon Breath is considered a supernatural ability. As such, it is dispelled by Antimagic fields, but spell resistance has no affect on it (ie, spell resistant creatures are affected normally, unless they happen to be hiding behind an Antimagic effect.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 07:31:34 -0800 From: John Calvin Subject: The Kingdom of Ierenoi ESD Hi folks, Just thought that this was interesting. The first Gaz has made it to Esd, and it happens to be Ierendi. And, no... the folks at WotC could not spell it correctly. The Kingdom of Ierenoi ESD. And the mispelling doesn't just come up in one place... it's all over (in the title, in the description multiple times, etc...) Anyway, check it out http://store.wizards.com/product.asp?ProductID=7592 -John ===== Rule #53. If the beautiful princess that I capture says "I'll never marry you! Never, do you hear me, NEVER!!!", I will say "Oh well" and kill her. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:26:38 -0800 From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: The Kingdom of Ierenoi ESD They can't even name the product correctly. That is really SAD! JK Wolf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 18:50:26 +0100 From: la Volpe Subject: Re: Is dragon breath magic? > So let me get this straight: IYC magic resistance/anti-magic offer *no* > protection against Fireballs or other offensive fire spells at all ??!!!! > True. Not only, it doesn't offer protection against any physical attack produced by magic. It makes more sense to me. I never understood why a fireball couldn't harm someone immune to spells, when after all it's just the conjuring of a huge mass of fire thrown at the enemy. The magic lies in the conjuring, not in the physical object itself. It's like using a spell to throw a boulder on the head of an enemy: why shouldn't the enemy be hit by it if he has AM? There's no reason to. It is quite balanced if you apply the rule to every similar situation. Obviously a creature like a beholder simply prevents the spell from taking place because it has an anti-magic ray and the conjuring can't take place. But a classical AD&D Magic Resistance cannot help in any way. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 23:36:13 +0100 From: thibault sarlat Subject: update on mystara.fr.st, new maps added!!! hello everyone.. I 've just added the last two savage Coast maps made by our esteemed collegue Ironwolf. Enjoy them, they are just beautiful. thib www.mystara.fr.st ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:08:50 -0800 From: The Stalker Subject: Re: Is dragon breath magic? On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 07:28:25 -0800, Andrew Theisen wrote: > If it helps any, in 3E, Dragon Breath is considered a supernatural ability. > As such, it is dispelled by Antimagic fields, but spell resistance has no > affect on it (ie, spell resistant creatures are affected normally, unless > they happen to be hiding behind an Antimagic effect.) > Yes, this is one of the areas where 3e is a vast improvement on earlier editions, since all these "gray zones" are dealt with in the core rules. This is just one, another is how protective magical items stack. - The Stalker ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 23:27:22 -0700 From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: Is dragon breath magic? Since they actually made a whole saving throw after a single monster's = attacks (vs Dragon Breath) and since the game is presumably about = Dragons to a large extent, I always figured that dragons were just = special. Their breath isn't a magical attack, but it's no ordinary fire = either. It can't be explained by intensity, it's almost a different = kind of magic. (e.g. is the ghoul's drain attack actually magical?). = Anyway, I suggest taking a look at Dragonlance and seeing what they say = about dragon breath. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: The Stalker=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 11:52 AM Subject: Is dragon breath magic? As a DM I've come to ponder this because it will soon become important = IMC (I have no quarrel with my players over this, but then only because it = is not relevant yet, and I prefer to have my ruling before any discussion begins on the subject). The essence of this is the fire breath of red dragons. I can = understand an argument that would support it being magical since dragons are clearly magical creatures, so their breath weapon might be seen as a magical attack. The fact that Rings of Fire Resistance (at least in 2e) = renders the wearer completely immune to standard fire, but only grants only a = minor benefit against breath weapons and magical attacks like Fireballs seem = to suggest that dragon breath is indeed magical. On the other hand, I don't think a person with high magic resistance = (not that any PC IMC has it) should be able to ignore damage from dragon = breath if he makes his magic resistance check. After all, red dragon breath = is still fire! How about someone protected by an Anti-Magic Shell? While = I think that should allow some bonus, I would still not allow it to make = the caster immune to fire breath, as it is still fire (someone protected = by an Anti-Magic Shell would not be immune to normal fire at all). Spells like Fire Shield or Prismatic Wall/Sphere are a different = matter, though - those are spells with specific notes on how they resist fire attacks, which then takes precedence over the issue of magic vs. = non-magic IMO. How do other DMs deal with this? - The Stalker ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 30 Jan 2002 to 31 Jan 2002 (#2002-31) ***************************************************************