Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 30 Nov 2002 to 1 Dec 2002 (#2002-310) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 02/12/2002, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 6 messages totalling 238 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Unsavory Facts About Elves (5) 2. Book of Artifacts for Mystara ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 17:29:30 -0000 From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Unsavory Facts About Elves ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Furneaux" To: Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 1:16 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Unsavory Facts About Elves > Quoting Andrés Piquer Otero : > > > > This is contradicted by Bruce's Savage Coast and other stuff for both > > >versions, and the 2nd edition stuff has 1/2elves mentioned in several > > of > > the > > >box sets including several NPCs. > > > > Not to speak of all the cases of people with "a touch of elvish blood", > > still treated as humans in OD&D (like the Glantri amabassador in > > Glantri, > > IIRC). > > Actually that is not a contradiction. Because elves and humans can still breed > just that offspring will be elvish or human not a mixture. Therefore they can > be part elf by blood but will not at all be elven, or an elf could have human > blood but will not at all be human. > This isn't intended to start a flame but it is a contradiction. Gaz 5 = No half elves, Other material = there ARE half elves, in one case a race is 1/2 elf & 1/2 ogre. Then there's Yavdlom, Savage Coast etc. Whilst your right to have your campaign work any way you want is never in doubt, your ascertation that there are no 1/2 elves in Mystara is most definately so. Perhaps in future a quick IMC added to your missives will help those unaware of your assumptions, and without all the material, as to the fact that you're wrong. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 08:12:29 +1300 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Unsavory Facts About Elves > > > Not to speak of all the cases of people with "a touch of elvish > > > blood", still treated as humans in OD&D (like the Glantri amabassador > > > in Glantri, IIRC). > This isn't intended to start a flame but it is a contradiction. How? I never said elves and humans can't breed. Just that the offspring is not hal-elven (at least by gaz 5) and what I was saying is that the existance of people with elvish blood is not a contradiction with Gaz 5. > Gaz 5 =No half elves, Other material = there ARE half elves, > in one case a race is > 1/2 elf & 1/2 ogre. Still thats not a human half-elf so it is feasible that it works differently. > Then there's Yavdlom, Savage Coast etc. Agreed. This *IS* in contradiction but mostly because it is (IMO) a bad application of 2e to already established rules. > Whilst your right to have your campaign work any way you want is never > in doubt, your ascertation that there are no 1/2 elves in Mystara is most > definately so. Perhaps in future a quick IMC added to your missives will > help those unaware of your assumptions, and without all the material, as > to the fact that you're wrong. My assertation was that there are no half elves in my mystara (original comment) and that elvish blood in glantri did not mean half-elves. Please take note, I don't want a flame war either but I know what I said and it is not wrong thank you. The 2e comment in the post was left for context not because I was commenting on it so if that is what got you then sorry (but it was from a previous post not from the one I was responding to (note the indentations)). Chris. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 14:22:22 -0600 From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: Unsavory Facts About Elves >> Gaz 5 =No half elves, Other material = there ARE half elves, in one >> case a race is 1/2 elf & 1/2 ogre. > > Still thats not a human half-elf so it is feasible that it works > differently. Maybe this could inspire a special-to-Mystara template. Call it "Elven heritage". Design it so that a human with the "elven heritage" template was nearly identical to the SRD/PHB half-elf. Maybe something like this: > Elven Heritage: > HD: As base. > Speed: As base. > AC: As base. > Damage: As base. > Special Attacks: As base. > Special Qualities: Elven Blood: For all special abilities and effects, > a creature with Elven Heritage" is considered an elf. Elven Heritage > creatures, for example, can use elven weapons and magic items with > racially specific elven powers as if they were elves. > Vision: Creature has the vision of the base creature plus low light > vision. > Languages: As base creature, plus Elven. > Saves: Lose all base creature saves, gains immunity to sleep and > similar effects and +2 racial saving throw bonus against Enchantment > spells or effects. > Abilities: As base. > Skills: Lose all base creature skill bonuses, instead acquires +1 > bonus to Listen, Search and Spot checks. > Feats: As base creature. Well, that was a quick off-the-top-of-my-head... It doesn't handle the human feats as properly as it should... but anyone could probably throw this on something and get a reasonable half-elf/half something else. Eric Anondson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:49:47 +0800 From: "Francisco V. Navarro V" Subject: Book of Artifacts for Mystara Hail Mystarans! Does the "Book of Artifacts" contain any material specific or suitable for Mystara? I have an opportunity to acquire a copy and I'm not sure if it will be worth it. Kit Navarro Glantrian Collector ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 04:48:33 -0000 From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Unsavory Facts About Elves ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Furneaux" To: Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Unsavory Facts About Elves > > > > Not to speak of all the cases of people with "a touch of elvish > > > > blood", still treated as humans in OD&D (like the Glantri amabassador > > > > in Glantri, IIRC). > > > This isn't intended to start a flame but it is a contradiction. > > How? I never said elves and humans can't breed. Just that the offspring is not > hal-elven (at least by gaz 5) and what I was saying is that the existance of > people with elvish blood is not a contradiction with Gaz 5. > Dragon issue #178 p44 lists the king of Eusdria as a half elven paladin, and here's an even better bit from p48 of the same issue: Half-Elves: Contrary to common belief, there is a race of of half-elves unknown to the Alfheim elves. These rare people live among elven and human communities in the Savage Coast. Fredar and Fredara made the characteristics of this mixture permanent and hereditary in an attempt to create a more homogeneous kingdom in Eusdria. The half-elven gene is dominant (thus, if only one of the parents is a half-elf, the progeny has a 65% chance of being a half-elf). Although still rare in Eusdria, this race is slowly gaining in numbers. Fredar and Fredara are their usual Immortal patrons. Since this, along with other Princess Ark stuff, was written before the 2e Mystara your later points are irrelevant. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:46:56 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Unsavory Facts About Elves Just to put myself clear... with my email I just meant that, given that the GAZ material from the almost beginning of the series (GAZ1 and 3) acknowledges the presence of people with "elvish blood", sexual intercourse between elves and humans (at least!!!) is possible. Therefore, at least in the Mystara presented in the TSR materials, elven anatomy and physiology (at least for reproductory matters) is compatible with that of humans. What the offspring is, well that's up to your particular campaign. IMC we use OD&D and I play an human magic-user with what you would call "elvish blood" (Belcadiz mother, Blackhill Alphatian father, and now he's a Baron and an ally of Princess Erewan, call him a turncoat if you want...). He's having a romantic affair with a pure elf, from Alfheim, so if rules for offspring are needed in the course of the campaign, well, we'll improvise (I guess an elf would be appropiate, but my Fantasy Genetics skill is really low...). Andrés ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 30 Nov 2002 to 1 Dec 2002 (#2002-310) ***************************************************************