Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 1 Dec 2002 to 2 Dec 2002 (#2002-311) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 03/12/2002, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 20 messages totalling 932 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Unsavory Facts About Elves 2. [jdaly@friend.ly.net: FW: Rejected posting to MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] 3. [jdaly@friend.ly.net: FW: Rejected posting (5) 4. Carnifex (was: A Guide to Human Ethnography) (5) 5. Mystara NWN Italian Server 6. elves and anger 7. Isle of Dread/Kopru (2) 8. Module X1 and Kopru 9. Kopru 3E (Part I) 10. Kopru 3E (Part II) 11. Kopru 3E (Part III): Combat ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 02:54:04 -0500 From: David Knott Subject: Re: Unsavory Facts About Elves From: "Andrés Piquer Otero" > IMC we use OD&D > and I play an human magic-user with what you would call "elvish blood" > (Belcadiz mother, Blackhill Alphatian father, and now he's a Baron and an > ally of Princess Erewan, call him a turncoat if you want...). > He's having a romantic affair with a pure elf, from Alfheim, so if rules for > offspring are needed in the course of the campaign, well, we'll improvise (I > guess an elf would be appropiate, but my Fantasy Genetics skill is really > low...). Using my fantasy genetics skill -- your PC would have the genetic combination Xe Yh -- by the rules I came up with, he would be an elf. So I will assume that he simply identifies more with his human side that with his elven side for some reason. If his mother has some human ancestry that she did not own up to, it is possible for your PC to have the combination Xh Yh -- which would make him fully human except for cosmetic traits inherited from his elven ancestry. The former combination would make all of his offspring by that Alfheim elf woman true elves (Xe Xe for the girls, Xe Yh for the boys), with the boys carrying more human traits to future generations. The latter combi- nation would produce the same offspring as would be expected from a mating between a full-blooded elf and a full-blooded human, except that your PC's genetic contribution would greatly add to the general elven appearance in general and the Belcadiz appearance in particular. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:05:17 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: [jdaly@friend.ly.net: FW: Rejected posting to MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] What follows is a message from Jeff Daly, concerning his unsubscription. He has asked me to forward it for him. ================= Begin forwarded message ================= From: jdaly@friend.ly.net (Jeff Daly) To: au998@freenet.carleton.ca ("'Geoff Gander'") Subject: FW: Rejected posting to MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 17:37:08 -0500 Hi Geoff! Without thinking, I unsubscribed first before delivering my final message. Would you mind forwarding this to the list for me? *** The decidedly juvenile turn on this list and my own lack of interest in general has prompted me to unsubscribe. If I wanted to partake in discussion of defecation, I would listen to the Howard Stern show. -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On = Behalf Of Murphy, Jason Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 3:02 AM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Unsavory Facts About Elves -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 16:56:55 +0100 From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: Re: [jdaly@friend.ly.net: FW: Rejected posting Well, i think i'll not miss him, as i'll never miss any person devoid of a bit of sense of humour... Who is this Howard Stern, anyway ? : - ) bye Francesco ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Gander" > What follows is a message from Jeff Daly, concerning his unsubscription. > He has asked me to forward it for him. > The decidedly juvenile turn on this list and my own lack of interest in > general has prompted me to unsubscribe. If I wanted to partake in > discussion of defecation, I would listen to the Howard Stern show. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:18:35 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Carnifex (was: A Guide to Human Ethnography) > >> Were the Carnifex isolated to a single location on the planet, or were >> they a >> world spanning empire. If so, what does that mean for the human's >> pre-history. >> How did the Carnifex shape their world, and the fate of the humans? >> Were they >> responsible for the migratory patterns? Did the humans make war with >> them, or >> were they slaves? According to my own works (and those of others), the Greater Carnifex were largely concentrated in northern Davania, as far south as what is now the Vulture Peninsula, as well as the southern Arm of the Immortals/Serpent Peninsula region of Brun. After their imprisonment, the Y'hog Carnifex built their own empire, but it only covered northern Davania and what is now the modern Thanegioth Archipelago at its greatest extent. In accordance with John's ideas, I think the Greater Carnifex, with their incredible magical prowess (by modern Mystaran standards) could very well have devised localised spells that altered the surrounding temperatures to their liking. Colder temperatures probably would not kill them over short periods, but they certainly would be uncomfortable. The Y'hog Carnifex, while powerful, would not likely have been able to perform such a feat, and thus they relied on servitor races to do their bidding in less favourable climates. Thus, they bred the Sis'thik to explore and colonise arid regions, and various subspecies of troglodytes to do the same in other climates. It is not inconceivable that they could have bred some sort of servitor races that could operate in colder climates, but in all likelihood these creatures either could not adapt perfectly to their environment (and were wiped out), or they rebelled (since their masters would rarely venture to colder territories). If we follow this line of thinking, the Y'hog Carnifex could very well have conquered stretches of Brun, but they would not have been able to hold on to those territories for very long, as the temperatures would prevent large-scale colonisation (the Y'hog Carnifex were never very prolific, anyway), and the ratio between slaves and overseers, as well as the distance from the core of the empire, would mean that servitors would either rebel, or they might have been convinced to switch sides in any local conflict. More to come.... Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:12:39 -0600 From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: [jdaly@friend.ly.net: FW: Rejected posting Mr. Defferrari, I will miss him. He has made significant contributions to this list. If you want to read articles about how elves defecate and think that is funny, then I guess there is little point in discussing the matter with you. I found that these postings were a waste of my time (a thing I charge a lot of money for). If people want to waste bandwidth (and the time of people who are not interested in this, pardon the pun, crap) then I too will find myself leaving this list. I do not mind an occasional stupid post, but when it explodes into a thread then I begin to wonder why I am involved with such a juvenile crowd. I thought this list was about developing resources for those who play, or want to play, Mystara. Driving good people away and then saying that it is good that they left because they wanted nothing to do with something they found offensive is, to put it bluntly, a good way to shut down this list. I am somewhat annoyed with our list ogre for allowing this thread to go on as it did... But it is not entirely his fault as he may not have gotten any complaints. I know that I deleted all messages related to this. Again, I will miss Jeff. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francesco Defferrari" To: Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 9:56 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] [jdaly@friend.ly.net: FW: Rejected posting > Well, i think i'll not miss him, as i'll never miss any person devoid of a > bit of sense of humour... > Who is this Howard Stern, anyway ? : - ) > bye > Francesco > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Geoff Gander" > > > What follows is a message from Jeff Daly, concerning his unsubscription. > > He has asked me to forward it for him. > >The decidedly juvenile turn on this list and my own lack of interest in > >general has prompted me to unsubscribe. If I wanted to partake in > >discussion of defecation, I would listen to the Howard Stern show. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:43:28 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Carnifex (was: A Guide to Human Ethnography) Continuing the thread of this discussion, there are a number of ways the Carnifex could have had an impact on other civilisations. The most obvious one, to start, would be the comparative "newness" of human cultures in much of Davania. Following my timeline, the Y'hog Carnifex pretty much wiped out any human culture that stood in their way, and those who survived the initial onslaught would have been killed off or displaced (some fled to southern Brun) in the subsequent battles with Lhomarr (as the front lines made their way northwest and southeast across the continent). By the time Lhomarr sank, northern Davania was pretty much depopulated, with only a few pockets of survivors scattered about. Only in later millennia, with the rise of the elves and other human cultures, would Davania resemble other continents in the cultural sense. Looking at this another way, and again using my timeline, the actions of the Y'hog Carnifex may have been what brought the Oltecs, or a significant strain of them, to Brun. Another potential impact could date largely from the time of the Greater Carnifex. The possibility of their possessing spells to mitigate the effects of colder and/or drier climates has already been discussed. Perhaps, in the hopes of creating substantial colonies in Brun, they created magical devices which, when planted into the ground, would create microclimates suitable for them? Many of these devices could still exist in western Brun, and possibly the Known World, and could perhaps account for the presence of regions where the climate is noticeably milder than in surrounding areas. If the locals ever thought to dig deep, they might find some of these bizarre (and perhaps vaguely unsettling) objects buried nearby, but they would not be able to control them (the Carnifex weren't proponents of instruction manuals). Should these devices ever malfunction, or cease to work entirely, the microclimates would vanish, or become unstable. As a side note, a malfunctioning Carnifex climate control device might cause madness among the locals, or other bizarre events, which could become the seed for a good adventure. A third possible effect of the Canifex might be a visceral dislike or hatred of lizardmen and related species. People in modern Mystara would not know the reason why lizard-kin should be killed on sight, or at best dealt with only when necessary, but those beliefs might date back to the times of the Carnifex wars. It puts an interesting twist to the saying, "I don't know why we do it; it's just always been that way..." Any other ideas? Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 13:37:48 -0800 From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Carnifex (was: A Guide to Human Ethnography) >> Many of these devices could still exist in western Brun, and possibly the Known World, and could perhaps account for the presence of regions where the climate is noticeably milder than in surrounding areas. If the locals ever thought to dig deep, they might find some of these bizarre (and perhaps vaguely unsettling) objects buried nearby, but they would not be able to control them (the Carnifex weren't proponents of instruction manuals). << Well, I have to say I wasn't thinking in this direction when I devised my little climate spell, but heck, this would be the natural evolution of such technology/magic. What, oh what have those Alfheim elves brought upon us? >> Should these devices ever malfunction, or cease to work entirely, the microclimates would vanish, or become unstable. As a side note, a malfunctioning Carnifex climate control device might cause madness among the locals, or other bizarre events, which could become the seed for a good adventure. << I'll just solidify some of the possibilities that I think Geoff was hinting at (adding my own twists of course): 1) The Alfheim elves have stumbled across one of these ancient Carnifex artifacts and are using it to create a climate suitable for themselves. Their lack of a "manual" was solved by a form of immortal intervention. The Trees of Life act as the "controlling device" for the artifact (a fact that he elves may or may not be aware of). The elves may not even be aware of the artifact that has allowed their weather magic to function for all of these years. 1a) What wil happen when the shadow elves start tinkering with the Alfheimer magic? Perhaps they trigger some event that leads to the artifact creating the Twisted FOrest. 2) The Carnifex artifact (which creates a tropical environemnt) is actually located in Ylaruam. After te GRoF shifted the axis of the planet, the tropical environment actually turned into a desert. This climate shift might have taken millenia, but it ultmately contributed to the downfall of Nithia. 2a) In this case, the Alfheimer's magic is actually keeping the artifact's powers in check. It is thanks to Alfheim (and the Trees of Life) that the climate of the Known World remains as it is. Once the Shadow Elves poison the forest the climate will shift again and slowly the KW will come to look much the same as the rest of Ylaruam. 2b) Let's not forget the undead lizardmen in Ylaruam. They may actually have the secret of controlling the artifact. Once they have "awoken" they may try to disrupt the Alfheimer's magic themselves (perhaps they are the ones who help the shadow elves). Since they care little for time, perhaps their goal is to create a huge desert, wipe out the knwon world nations, and then bring the climate back to a tropical level (where their lizardkin can flourish). 3) Perhaps it was some interaction between this carnifex artifact, and the blackmoorian artifact that caused the explosion of BC1700 and drove the shadow elves beneath the surface. If this was the case then perhaps some similar interaction caused the GRoF in the first place. The moral of the story? Don't bring Carnifex and Blackmoorian artifacts together or you will be sorry. >> A third possible effect of the Canifex might be a visceral dislike or hatred of lizardmen and related species. People in modern Mystara would not know the reason why lizard-kin should be killed on sight, or at best dealt with only when necessary, but those beliefs might date back to the times of the Carnifex wars. It puts an interesting twist to the saying, "I don't know why we do it; it's just always been that way..." << I love this idea. Are there any examples of reptile phobias in the KW? Any examples of reptile worshipping? Perhaps these reactions are more pronounced on Davania? -John ===== Rule #85. I will not use any plan in which the final step is horribly complicated, e.g. "Align the 12 Stones of Power on the sacred altar then activate the medallion at the moment of total eclipse." Instead it will be more along the lines of "Push the button." from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:46:58 -0600 From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: Carnifex (was: A Guide to Human Ethnography) > Continuing the thread of this discussion, there are a number of ways > the Carnifex could have had an impact on other civilisations. ... > The possibility of their possessing spells to mitigate the effects of > colder and/or drier climates has already been discussed. Perhaps, in > the hopes of creating substantial colonies in Brun, they created > magical devices which, when planted into the ground, would create > microclimates suitable for them? Many of these devices could still > exist in western Brun, and possibly the Known World, and could perhaps > account for the presence of regions where the climate is noticeably > milder than in surrounding areas. If the locals ever thought to dig > deep, they might find some of these bizarre (and perhaps vaguely > unsettling) objects buried > nearby, but they would not be able to control them (the Carnifex > weren't proponents of instruction manuals). Should these devices ever > malfunction, or cease to work entirely, the microclimates would > vanish, or become unstable. As a side note, a malfunctioning Carnifex > climate control device might cause madness among the locals, or other > bizarre events, which could become the seed for a good adventure. Building on this, it might be some Carnifex micro-climate device that sustained the elves' "Sylvan Realm" on the northwestern coast of Brun, unbeknown to the elves. They just came across a very hospitable realm, and settled down. Also, for those who wish to throw an even bigger monkey wrench into the miasma of the Red Curse, maybe the blending of all the multiple curses was the doing of a malfunctioning Carnifex device... > A third possible effect of the Canifex might be a visceral dislike or > hatred of lizardmen and related species. A tangent to this might be an answer to the question of why the Aranea of the Orc's Head Peninsula have an affinity towards experimenting on lizard-kin. Eric Anondson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 14:14:28 -0800 From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Mystara NWN Italian Server >> I'd suggest for the New Neverwinter Mystara Project (Francesco and John?) to take a look at this: www.clansabbat.net/solaria/ This is a server where they are working on Karameikos. It is in Italian, BUT it would be easy to use the same tools. Moreover, you can try to find new recruits for the MML. << Thanks Giulio. I'm going to really try and check out those pages. For the rest of you who can't speak Italian you can try out the following site for language conversion: http://translation.langenberg.com/ Goto the section labeled "Translate a Web Page". Select "Italian to English" or whatever, and then paste in the www.clansabbat.net/solaria/ link. It works pretty good (or at least well enough). -John ===== Rule #85. I will not use any plan in which the final step is horribly complicated, e.g. "Align the 12 Stones of Power on the sacred altar then activate the medallion at the moment of total eclipse." Instead it will be more along the lines of "Push the button." from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:10:21 +1300 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: [jdaly@friend.ly.net: FW: Rejected posting > I will miss him. He has made significant contributions to this list. It is a shame to see him go... > If people want to waste bandwidth (and the time of people who are > not > interested in this, pardon the pun, crap) then I too will find myself > leaving this list. I do not mind an occasional stupid post, but when it > explodes into a thread then I begin to wonder why I am involved with > such a > juvenile crowd. Actually while the initial discussion was a bit juvenile there was some interesting points on elven genetics in mystara, so it wasn't a complete waste Mystara wise. As for the ammount of bandwidth and time wasted on the topic, it was a silly question (which of course beget silly answers) and really should have been dismissed as such. Sometimes people enjoy a bit of sillyness. Complaining about it is a far greater waste af bandwidth IMO. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 17:44:50 -0600 From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: [jdaly@friend.ly.net: FW: Rejected posting > Actually while the initial discussion was a bit juvenile there was > some interesting points on elven genetics in mystara, so it wasn't a > complete waste Mystara wise. As a matter of fact, I ignored the entire thread for dozens of posts after reading the first post. But I saw it was continuing post after post so I looked in on the thread toward the end there and found it had changed for the good. It inspired me to post something off the top of my head, but now that I look at the archive, it was munged during transmission somehow... Anyway, here is what I tried posting regarding "partial-elves": ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Gaz 5 =No half elves, Other material = there ARE half elves, in one >> case a race is 1/2 elf & 1/2 ogre. > > Still thats not a human half-elf so it is feasible that it works > differently. Maybe this could inspire a special-to-Mystara template. Call it "Elven heritage". Design it so that a human with the "elven heritage" template was nearly identical to the SRD/PHB half-elf. Maybe something like this: > Elven Heritage: > HD: As base. > Speed: As base. > AC: As base. > Damage: As base. > Special Attacks: As base. > Special Qualities: Elven Blood: For all special abilities and effects, > a creature with Elven Heritage" is considered an elf. Elven Heritage > creatures, for example, can use elven weapons and magic items with > racially specific elven powers as if they were elves. > Vision: Creature has the vision of the base creature plus low light > vision. > Languages: As base creature, plus Elven. > Saves: Lose all base creature saves, gains immunity to sleep and > similar effects and +2 racial saving throw bonus against Enchantment > spells or effects. > Abilities: As base. > Skills: Lose all base creature skill bonuses, instead acquires +1 > bonus to Listen, Search and Spot checks. > Feats: As base creature. Well, that was a quick off-the-top-of-my-head... It doesn't handle the human feats as properly as it should... but anyone could probably throw this on something and get a reasonable half-elf/half something else. Eric Anondson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 00:54:29 +0100 From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: Re: [jdaly@friend.ly.net: FW: Rejected posting I know he made significant contributions, I liked them, and i don't think at all that discussions about waste disposal of fantasy creatures are particullary funny, but if you find some posts of that kind offensive, you have a big problem about tolerance... if you don't like some posts you can always delete them without make a tragedy of it... Jeff reaction frankly seem to me a lot exaggerated... and i don't like at all this kind of contempt against "juvenile crowd". Seems to hear a very unhappy old man grumble.... anyway is not that this list is so full of messages that two or three stupid posts can burden it.... Bye Francesco ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Hrabovsky" He has made significant contributions to this list. If you > want to read articles about how elves defecate and think that is funny, then > I guess there is little point in discussing the matter with you. I found > that these postings were a waste of my time (a thing I charge a lot of money > for). If people want to waste bandwidth (and the time of people who are not > interested in this, pardon the pun, crap) then I too will find myself > leaving this list. I do not mind an occasional stupid post, but when it > explodes into a thread then I begin to wonder why I am involved with such a > juvenile crowd. I thought this list was about developing resources for those > who play, or want to play, Mystara. Driving good people away and then saying > that it is good that they left because they wanted nothing to do with > something they found offensive is, to put it bluntly, a good way to shut > down this list. I am somewhat annoyed with our list ogre for allowing this > thread to go on as it did... But it is not entirely his fault as he may not > have gotten any complaints. I know that I deleted all messages related to > this. Again, I will miss Jeff. > > George ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 00:45:36 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: elves and anger IMO it's a bad thing if anybody leaves the list, I would not say anybody is not to be missed, especially in our small community. Nevertheless, there's not too much point in discrediting this or that discussion thread, as long as it stays in topic and it does not go into offence or flaming. The elven bodily functions thing could be slightly silly, but it drew some attention to it. At times it's nice to have small fun (and people's senses of humour vary wildly, especiall in a world-wide mailing list), and a short time joke is ok if it's not offensive (and i don't think toilet humor is). Second, the small fun thread could give (and in fact was giving) way to some more "gaming-serious" lines of discussion: 1. What the hell does mean the recurring statement that elves are a "magic race"?? Are they compatible with other creatures' physiologies??? If you want more stress on the "magical race" factor for your campaign, you may decide that elves eat, but live more on "love and fresh air"; that can give some twisty surprises in the hands of a creative DM, like elves having different ingestive poisons than other races! I read a humorous spoof of dragons breathing fire because they ingest tons of methane-producing food, then, their teeth have flint growths, they grind them while they expell air, and dragon breath is a flaming belch!!! silly, but I used it in a AD&D game years ago for really great results. 2. Thus, human-elf intercourse. Elven blood and half-elves in Mystara. There's been a lot of talk on that in this list through its history, but it's always an interesting topic. The idea I was given that my PC was an elf by "fantasy genetics" but took a MU career as *culturally* he favored his father's social system was very refreshing for my campaign. The question that 1/2 elf can just be a cultural attitude is really an interesting possibility to consider in running a campaign. 3. That's kinda silly, but could work wonders in a slightly light-hearted campaign or adventure: what if elves don't have a need for privies / toilets / latrines??? That would have an impact in adventures... I can imagine a group of PCs trying to infiltrate the City of Stars, getting in trouble and trying to hide in a privy, only to find that there's none!!! Those are just possibilities, I'm not pontificating any of them... But I think that spinning them in on-topic talk could bring up some fresh ideas (and a couple laughs), so I'm really sorry somebody can feel offended enough to leave the list. Come on, 1. this is a *game*, after all. 2. Mystara is huge and people have very different interests: e.g. i won't a computer capable of running NWN in a thousand years, but i don't moan everytime people write to the list about their cool Mystara NWNights, happy them who can play!!! Andrés ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 20:52:13 -0600 From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: Carnifex (was: A Guide to Human Ethnography) More Carnifex goodness. I recently took a look through Goodman Games' Complete Guide to the Velociraptor and Complete Guide to T-Rex. At first, it seems like a quite strange idea, but it fits in the Broncosaurus Rex D20 world. Even that, though, doesn't appeal to me greatly. What did was, once I looked through them, was that both representations suit wonderfully well for representations of the Carnifex or possibly as degenerate descendants. All sorts of ideas come forth... For instance, such intelligent dinosaurs might be populating the vast interior of Davania. The velociraptors would be tribal hunters who scours Davania for prey led by the shamans. Psionic T-Rex tyrants have shown up in the Thyatian Hinterlands, out of the dark jungle interior, claiming new hunting grounds within Thyatian territory... Just some ramblings from a tired mind. Eric Anondson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:51:22 -0400 From: Paul Westermeyer Subject: Isle of Dread/Kopru Hey, folks:) I'm new to the Mystara list, though sort of old to the world. Of course, when i was gaming in Mystara it wasn't Mystara, it was just that continent described in X2 and the D&D Expert set:) I'm afraid I migrated to Greyhawk (and then on to the Forgotten Realms) before they began to properly detail Mystara as such, but I've always liked it, and really enjoyed the 'Princess Ark' articles in Dragon. When most of the Mystara boxed sets started turning up cheap at used bookstores and toy stores in my area I snapped a bunch of them up. Some folks may recognize me from the Forgotten realms, or more likely the Spelljammer lists. :) Speaking of Spelljammer, if anyone on this is list is also in my Jammers PBEM game please let me know asap, off list, of course! :) I do have a question. Can anyone tell me if the Kopru, the amphibious monsters first described in X2 Isle of Dread, have ever been detailed in 2nd edition terms? Or more fully detailed for OD&D? Thanks! -- "We sleep safely in our beds, only because rough men stand guard in the night, ready to visit violence upon those who would do us harm." H.G. Wells. Paul Westermeyer, westermeyer.3@osu.edu Phd Candidate, History, Ohio State University Instructor, Humanities, Columbus State Community College ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:38:44 -0600 From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: Isle of Dread/Kopru > I do have a question. Can anyone tell me if the Kopru, the amphibious > monsters first described in X2 Isle of Dread, have ever been detailed > in 2nd edition terms? Or more fully detailed for OD&D? Hey Paul! The Kopru had been well detailed in the accessory PC3 The Sea People, by Jim Bambra. It's one of the OD&D Creature Crucible line. EricAnondson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:34:26 -0800 From: Darth Darknerd Subject: Module X1 and Kopru Does anyone have the Kopru text from module X1: Isle of Dawn. That had a lot of good monsters that were recycled as races in RedSteel and PC3, and some later ended up in Monsterous Compendium Appendix. If anyone could forward me the text that would be great. In the meantime, I am going to shoot out a D&D3E Kopru for Mystara. I'll integrate X1 material later once I either find the book in my unassorted messy house, or someone forwards me the text. - Joaquin __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:52:08 -0800 From: Darth Darknerd Subject: Kopru 3E (Part I) PREFACE: This is an updated version of the Kopru mentioned in X1 and Monsterous Compendium Appenix (TSR 2501, ISBN 1-56076-875-4). STATISTICS: ----------------------------------------------------------- Medium-Size Monsterous Humanoid (Aquatic) Hit Dice: 8d8 (36 hp) Initiative: +2 Speed: 5 ft., swim 40 ft. AC: 15 (+2 Dex, +3 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 13 Attacks: Tail slap +10 melee and 2 claws +8 melee and bite +8 melee Damage: Tail slap 1d6+2, claw 1d4+1, bite 1d4+1 Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft. Speacial Attacks: Constrict 3d6+3, dominate person, improved grab Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft. Saves: Fort +2, Ref +8, Will +9 Abilities: Str 15, Dex 14, Con 11, Int 11, Wis 12, Cha 10 Skills: Concentration +11, Escape Artist +11, Move Silently +10, Search +8, Swim +10 Feats: Iron Will, Multi attack Climate/Terrain: Warm aquatic and marsh Organization: Solitary, pair, patrol (3-5), or colony (6-24) Challenge Rating: 6 Treasure: Standard coins (gold and platinum only), standard goods (gems only), no items Alignment: Always chaotic evil Advancement: 9-10 HD (Medium-size); 11-12 HD (Large) ----------------------------------------------------------- - Joaquin __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 22:11:41 -0800 From: Darth Darknerd Subject: Kopru 3E (Part II) DESCRIPTION TEXT: ----------------------------------------------------------- The Koprus are a race of heat-loving amphibians that once built a vast and mysterous civilization under the sea, but for unknown reasons they have been degenerating and becoming ever more decrepit, until now almost none of its former glory remains. The kopru is an eellike man-sized creature with a humanoid upper body and has a smooth head, large unblinking eyes, and a tentacled, sphincteral mouth that has led many scholars to propose that koprus might somehow be related to mind flayers. It has two arms that ends in vicious webbed, clawed hands, and has a sinuous lower body that splits into three flukelike, prehensile tails, each capped with a sharp hook. Kopru skin is a light tan at the creature's hatching, which gradually turns to olive in adulthood, and then later fades to a sickly brown in old age. ----------------------------------------------------------- - Joaquin __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 22:30:16 -0800 From: Darth Darknerd Subject: Kopru 3E (Part III): Combat COMBAT: ----------------------------------------------------------- When out of the water, a kopru is nearly helpless. On land, it cannot attack with its claws because it needs its arms to drag itself across the ground or prop its body up, and a kopru can use its tail to attack targets behind it. A kopru in water however is another matter, as the kopru becomes a ferocious oppoenent in melee combat. Along with its claws and teeth, it lashes out with its tails, all three of which strike as one. Amphibious (Ex): The kopru can survive indefinitely in land as well as in water. Constrict (Ex): With a successful grapple check, a kopru can constrict a grabbed opponent, dealing 3d6+3 points of bludgeoning damage. Dominate Person (Su): Once per day, a kopru can produce an effect like that of a DOMINATE PERSON spell (caster level 10th; Will save DC 14), except that the range is 180 feet and the duration is eight days. Improved Grab (Ex): If a kopru hits an opponent that is its own size or smaller with a tail attack, it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity (grapple bonus +17, including a +7 racial bonus on grapple checks). If it gets a hold, it also constricts in the same round. Thereafter, the kopru has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use its tails to hold the opponent (-20 penalty on grapple check, but the kopru is not considered grappled). In either case, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals tail and constrict damage. The kopru also has the option to bite the grappled victim as well. ----------------------------------------------------------- - Joaquin __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 1 Dec 2002 to 2 Dec 2002 (#2002-311) **************************************************************