Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 2 Dec 2002 to 3 Dec 2002 (#2002-312) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 04/12/2002, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 31 messages totalling 1566 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Isle of Dread/Kopru 2. PC3/Kopru 3. PC3/Kopru (Descriptive Text) 4. [jdaly@friend.ly.net: FW: Rejected posting to MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] 5. Iron Ring vs. SotSL (2) 6. Eye of Traldar (3) 7. ThunderRift (5) 8. Long Threads & frustruation 9. [jdaly@friend.ly.net: FW: Rejected posting to (4) 10. Carnifex (was: A Guide to Human Ethnography) (2) 11. PC3/Kna and MCA/Kna 12. Five Shires (3) 13. Traldaran Names 14. Silent List 15. Marilenev Rebellion 16. Addakia (was M-Babylon or... ) (2) 17. Addakia and Yezchamenid ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 00:18:38 -0800 From: Darth Darknerd Subject: Re: Isle of Dread/Kopru > Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:38:44 -0600 > From: Eric Anondson > Subject: Re: Isle of Dread/Kopru > > > I do have a question. Can anyone tell me if the > Kopru, the amphibious > > monsters first described in X2 Isle of Dread, have > ever been detailed > > in 2nd edition terms? Or more fully detailed for > OD&D? > > Hey Paul! > > The Kopru had been well detailed in the accessory > PC3 The Sea People, > by Jim Bambra. It's one of the OD&D Creature > Crucible line. > > > EricAnondson > I thought I would mention that there is a 2E version in the Monsterous Compendium (r) Appendix (Mystara) [TSR 2501, ISBM 1-56076-875-4]. I did not notice that the Kopru were in PC3. I think I have that somewhere under a pile of papers, so I will have to dig for it. Also, as you might notice, I just posted a 3E version, in case you might try a 3E game. - Joaquin __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 00:36:24 -0800 From: Darth Darknerd Subject: PC3/Kopru I've been browsing PC3 Accessory, The Sea People by Jim Bambra (TSR9277, ISBN 0-88038-826-9) and it has a descriptive firsthand account of the Kopru (pp 11-12), rules for playing seap people with racial reactions and AC for kopru (p 17), and more kopru specifics (pp 22-23). I just have one question, what languages are used. I imagine that kopru's speak their own ancient language and also the common language by the largest undersea group (a sort of AquaCommon per say). Is there any mention of this in PC3? I cannot find it. - Joaquin __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 01:11:37 -0800 From: Darth Darknerd Subject: PC3/Kopru (Descriptive Text) I figured while I wait for my slooow Windows Server to boot up, I will type out the descriptive text. I hope people enjoy it.* Note, typing errors expected. ----------------------------------------------------------- Drazlik, the kopru, gives us the lowdown on the new spirit of enterprise. "...fester, fester, hate, hate, hate, eat, eat, fester, hate, control, control, fester, hate..." "Times are hard. Our civilization collapsed long ago. Our cultural heritage washed away on the current of the sea. So we sit and fester, hate, and eat. After years of doing this I got bored. I mean, is this any life for someone as good looking and intelligent as I am? Look at my eyes. See how big and wide they are? You just can't help falling into them. Now, sit still and stop fidgeting. No, I don't want a kiss. Try to resist my highly attractive faned and sphinctered mouth, will you? A kiss from me may be not all you expect "Yeah, I've got smarts and looks. I've got a good physique, too. Slender, well muscled, with three excellent tails ending in nice sharp hooks. Ideal for ripping, rending, and crushing. Feel the shiny smoothness ofmy head. Look, I told you to stop trying to kiss me. I know you'll do anything for me, you poor demented fool, but just sit there and listen. I don't want to be pawed. "For years, we just sat around festering in our hatred of humans. I mean, what a thing to get all chilled about. It's not even that any humans come anywhere near us -- the bleeding wimps wold melt before they even got anywhere near an active volcano. Oh, sure, I could live up above on the land, but I can do without the aggravation. Humans, dwarves, elves, and those half things coming around to pester you all the time. They're either looking fore treasure, or off on some fool quest to right some imaginary wrong. Hate them? Of course I hate them Poking their noses where they're not wanted. Knocking over self-respecting monsters while all we're trying to do is make a living prey on the natives, and varying our diets with any tasty morsels that get shipwrecked on the coast. "Naw. I gave all that up when we moved downstairs into the water. Besides, I love basking in this hot water. No problems with seating too much and dehydrating. You can just sit here all day, drink as much as you like, and sweat out the poisons from the jellyfish you ate for lunch." "Yeah, it's better down here, but tit can still get boring. You can pump out all of your energies into hating humans and anything that resembles them. But where's it get you? Nowhere. It's not a very rewarding experience sitting around hating and festering and eating. Naw, I don't mean that. Eating's all right. "So, I though that I needed change. Get about a bit. See some more of the world. Go visit a few folks. Well, I tried it, but it just didn't work out quite right. That's not to say people weren't friendly. I met quite a few who were falling over themselves to be my friends. But they say travel broadens the mind. More like the diet. Well, what are friends for, if not to help you in times of need? So, I ate a few of them. I think it was boredom, really, for now my friends stay around a lot longer. My diet's not so varied these days, but you can't have everything. "What I realized was that sitting around festering and hating a race I hadn't seen for years was coloring my whole attitude. Humans. PAH! Last human I helped out was a total nerd. Ye gads! He came from some barren land called Ylaruam. Obsessed with praying all the time. I told him to knock it off, and he almost died. I send him back there, told him to kill all the clerics he could find. I guess he must have tried, either that or some dirty human negated my control with a spell. Shark's droppings the lot of them. My control was good, I've tested it over the years. Stretches as far as I want. All I've got to do is get a puny human mind in my contorl, and they're powerless. But humans, you can't trust them. Do them a favor and they can't even repay you by carrying out a simple task like killing each other. Bunch of stinking slimes, not even fith enough to be eaten. "Anyway, what I needed was something to take my mind off humans. Get a job, I thought. Do something useful and constructive. Stop being a menace to society and take my rightful place in it. So I though, what does the world really need that I can offer it? Well, I can resist high temperatures for a start. That could be handy. I have this ability to make friends easily. That's good. So, I decided to be an entrepreneur. Nothing too demanding. Just get a few saps to do the hard work, and I'd be made. "Being an entrepreneur wasn't a lot of use around the volcano. All anyone ever wants to do there is sit around festering and thinking up ways to cause trouble. It was obvious I needed to move and find a corner of the market that a kopru of my talents could exploit. So I headed off for Undersea. The initial welcome wasn't that great, but after a few tritions came around to my way of thinking, it got better. Following a heavy discussion with the queen of the tritons, I got the exclusive rights to underwater smelting and forging. "Ideal, you see. No one else could work in the intense heat of the volcanoes, and any iron and steel had to be imported before. I went back home, recruited a few fire salamanders to work the metals, picked up a few other kopru to help make people friend, and we set up. Things went well, lots of metal nodules on hte sea floor. The kna families didn't like it much at first, and they seemed unimpressed with our friendly personalities. But once I offered them the transportation rights on my good, they were happy enought to top trading the nodules with the surface world. "Since then I've branched out a bit -- I now have a recruitment agency. My staff of highly trained kopru will find the right person for the job. No matter how dirty, unpleasant, repugnant, or anti-social, we'll find someone who'll do th job with a smile on his face and a glow in his heart. Mind you, he'll probaly be human. We fix them up with a yearly contract, and give them good benefits; water breathing spell for a year, and a guaranteed no-livestock clause -- that means we won't accidentally eat them. Humans, I may hate them, but they've go their uses." ----------------------------------------------------------- - Joaquin * This material is copyright TSR 1990. If that matters... __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 09:28:23 -0000 From: Colin Davidson Subject: Re: [jdaly@friend.ly.net: FW: Rejected posting to MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] > Hi Geoff! > > Without thinking, I unsubscribed first before delivering my final message. > Would you mind forwarding this to the list for me? > *** > The decidedly juvenile turn on this list and my own lack of interest in > general has prompted me to unsubscribe. If I wanted to partake in > discussion of defecation, I would listen to the Howard Stern show. Well, I for one hink that's a shame. I didn't have any interest in the defacation (or otherwise) of Elves, but if it interests others I have no problem with them discussing it. May I ask (as a fairly recent reader of this mailing list, but a long time reader of the archive) what the 'ground rules' are with regards to good/bad taste? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 02:50:00 -0800 From: Darth Darknerd Subject: Iron Ring vs. SotSL The Iron Ring eventually sets up their base of operations on a remote island south east of Aloysius Island, and from this base of operations, they plague the neighboring kingdoms with both piracy and raiding villages for slaves, which are sold to Glantri, Thyatis, Hule, Sind, Jaibul, and even sea denizens like the kopru. Most of the activities of the Iron Ring remain within the Five Shires and Karameikos, and at one point was even spreading into Darokin. However this ended after the fall of Black Eagle Barony, and slavelords operations were the coastal and island nations of Ierendi, Minrothad Guilds, Karameikos, Darokin (near Port Tenobar), Thyatis, etc. This is a perfect tie-in for the famous series Scourge of the Slavelords module. This is a classic that has a large following. I think this one will adapt nicely into, and can take the party throughout many nations, investigating slave trade, until the module's entry-point of being captured during a party of nobles. In Karameikos, the ambassadors are detailed, so a party with such NPC personalities would work well, as this is detailed well in the GAZ1 or the boxed set. The A1-4: Scourge of the Slavelords module set(http://www.flash.net/~brenfrow/ad/a1-4.htm) starts at around 5th level I believe, so a module like B10: Night's Dark Terror (http://www.flash.net/~brenfrow/dd/dd-b10.htm) would be excellent, as the party is pitted against Iron Ring. The GM can throw in some side adventures dealing with Barons, the Church, ethnic strife, etc. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 02:52:40 -0800 From: Darth Darknerd Subject: Eye of Traldar Did anyone get this module (http://www.flash.net/~brenfrow/dd/dd-dda3.htm)? I read it long ago, and I thought the castle design was so embarrassing pathetic. I was wondering if the FR Zhentrium area was detailed out? Perhaps this can be a better substitute for the pathetic castle in Eye of Traldar module. - jm __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 02:58:51 -0800 From: Darth Darknerd Subject: ThunderRift Where is ThunderRift anyhow? There are a few D&D modules for it, but there's nothing on the campaign. Anyone, Anyone? - jm __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:12:26 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: Long Threads & frustruation It is always sorry to see anyone leaving this fine list. Especially when the actual silly part of the thread-who-is-not-to-be-named remained quite short. Just a few poop texts, and then it switched towards more interesting themes, as someone already noted. The human-elven genetics is quite an interesting topic - especially when even the canon material seems to give each and every DM the chance to choose from many ways of dealing with the subject (hint - contradiction sometimes reads as diversity). This brought to my mind a lesson from such threads. When "unsavoury facts" is clearly changing towards "elven genetics", changing the subject line might be in order. It is much easier for people who don't have the time or the inclination to look through all the posts to just look at the subject lines and get interested - or rediscover their interest when something not so interesting has stopped. Well, looking back it seems many people on this list have already followed this custom - much better than on many other lists. We don't get a lot of threads with practically un"re:re:re:"adadle subject lines... But in the case of very specialised threads like the poop one I think this is a good reminder. Mind you, I find silliness refeshing from time to time. But that's a matter of personal taste. (One of the enduring jokes of our 14 years old group is "the most important attrubute"... the teenager never faded away...) Yours, Ville ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:09:04 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: ThunderRift --- Darth Darknerd skrev: > Where is ThunderRift anyhow? There are a few D&D > modules for it, but there's nothing on the campaign. > Anyone, Anyone? There was one product describing the Valley itself, with a really nice painted color map included. ThunderRift can be anywhere really. Some have suggested placing it in Norwold. Any other mountain range on Mystara would fit aswell. Others have suggested keeping it a separate plane of existance. The adventure module that came with the D&D DM Screen, apparently allowed the characters to leave Thunder Rift through a magical gateway and ended up in a puddle near Bywater, Karameikos. Now, I've been thinking about this. What if the gateway from Bywater was created by the Hutaakans ca 1000 BC? The humans of ThunderRift are probably descendants of Traldar slaves the Hutaakans brought with them. Later, the gateway was forgotten and deteriorated, a ruined remainder of Hutaakan exploration. What do you think? Anyone with more insight in the Thunder Rift setting care to expand upon this? Håvard ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 09:39:06 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: [jdaly@friend.ly.net: FW: Rejected posting to > May I ask (as a fairly recent reader of this mailing list, but a long time > reader of the archive) what the 'ground rules' are with regards to good/bad > taste? Some basic rules on taste can be found in the guidelines on my website (the addy is in the sig file), but to put it in the most general terms, try following this rule: If you wouldn't say it in polite company, don't say it here. This means no swearing, no criticisms of other people's religions or politics, no discussions about RL habits considered to be obscene, etc. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:16:52 -0000 From: Colin Davidson Subject: Re: [jdaly@friend.ly.net: FW: Rejected posting to > Some basic rules on taste can be found in the guidelines on my website > (the addy is in the sig file), but to put it in the most general terms, > try following this rule: > > If you wouldn't say it in polite company, don't say it here. > > This means no swearing, no criticisms of other people's religions or > politics, no discussions about RL habits considered to be obscene, etc. > Thanks, that's more or less what I'd have expected. In which case discussions on the digestive biology of elves is neither off topic nor out of bounds on taste grounds. A shame to lose a good tcontributor to this mailing list over such a matter. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 11:19:12 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Carnifex (was: A Guide to Human Ethnography) John wrote: > 1) The Alfheim elves have stumbled across one of these ancient Carnifex > artifacts and are using it to create a climate suitable for themselves. Their > lack of a "manual" was solved by a form of immortal intervention. The Trees of > Life act as the "controlling device" for the artifact (a fact that he elves may > or may not be aware of). The elves may not even be aware of the artifact that > has allowed their weather magic to function for all of these years. > 1a) What wil happen when the shadow elves start tinkering with the Alfheimer > magic? Perhaps they trigger some event that leads to the artifact creating the > Twisted FOrest. Hmm...as I recall, wasn't the creation of the Canolbarth forest what allowed Ilsundal to become an Immortal, or did he attain his status before that? In either case, the device must have been malfunctioning beforehand, because that region used to be grassland, and who knows what it was before the GRoF... This is certainly a possibility. > 2) The Carnifex artifact (which creates a tropical environemnt) is actually > located in Ylaruam. After te GRoF shifted the axis of the planet, the tropical > environment actually turned into a desert. This climate shift might have taken > millenia, but it ultmately contributed to the downfall of Nithia. If this is the case, then the GRoF might have damaged most of the surviving Carnifex artifacts (the Immortals would probably have tried to neutralise or remove as many of them as possible after the Greater Carnifex were imprisoned). If we look at the map of Nithia in HWR2, we see that, aside from the extremely fertile river delta and riverbanks, Nithia is a pretty arid place. I'd be inclined to follow James Mishler's early map of Nithia to provide a glimpse of what the land might have been like - fertile lowlands and lakes surrounded by grasslands and hills. Thus, if there were an artifact there, it could have been damaged, turning the once-verdant jungle valley into the semi-lush region that would become Nithia (perhaps this was also when that portal to the plane of fire opened, too?). This process, however, was part of a gradual change, so that the area occupied by Nithia would have inevitably turned into a desert - the creation of the Canolbarth forest greatly accelerated that process. Just a thought. > 2a) In this case, the Alfheimer's magic is actually keeping the artifact's > powers in check. It is thanks to Alfheim (and the Trees of Life) that the > climate of the Known World remains as it is. Once the Shadow Elves poison the > forest the climate will shift again and slowly the KW will come to look much > the same as the rest of Ylaruam. I think there is certainly potential to do something here. We would have to give the whole climate mechanism for the Known World some serious thought before going further, IMO. We already known that Ylaruam, Alfheim, and Darokin are linked in terms of climate - what else? > 2b) Let's not forget the undead lizardmen in Ylaruam. They may actually have > the secret of controlling the artifact. Once they have "awoken" they may try > to disrupt the Alfheimer's magic themselves (perhaps they are the ones who help > the shadow elves). Since they care little for time, perhaps their goal is to > create a huge desert, wipe out the knwon world nations, and then bring the > climate back to a tropical level (where their lizardkin can flourish). This has the makings of a fiendish plot. :-) > 3) Perhaps it was some interaction between this carnifex artifact, and the > blackmoorian artifact that caused the explosion of BC1700 and drove the shadow > elves beneath the surface. If this was the case then perhaps some similar > interaction caused the GRoF in the first place. The moral of the story? Don't > bring Carnifex and Blackmoorian artifacts together or you will be sorry. Probably because technomancy is in many ways inherently unstable (at least, that's my reading of it), and as far Carnifex artifacts, those are probably dangerous - period. > I love this idea. Are there any examples of reptile phobias in the KW? Any > examples of reptile worshipping? Perhaps these reactions are more pronounced > on Davania? I can't remember any explicit anti-lizard sentiments in the KW offhand, it's more a case of "reading between the lines". I have always had the impression that lizard men and their cousins, wherever they may be located, are either ignored by humans at the best of times, and considered a dangerous threat at wors - in part because so little seems to have been written about relations between the two races. By contrast, take cultures where interaction with humanoids is, if not common, at least has a strong historical grounding (Glantri, Alfheim, and Darokin). Alfheim Town has an orcish enclave, Glantri (IIRC) has humanoid servants and menials, and the presence of "half-orcs" is mentioned in the Darokin Gaz (not as a race, simply that frequent invasions have infused some orcish blood into some segments of the populace). If there were even remotely friendly or normalised relations with the lizard men of the Malpheggi Swmp, for example, then Athenos and Port Tenobar might employ lizard men as rangers or labourers (since they are better adapted to working in the swampy environment, and they probably know the lay of the land a lot better), yet I do not recall reading this in GAZ 11. If someone can correct me, or verify this, that would be great. This is mainly why I have arrived at this conclusion. In fact, the only case where I remember reading about friendly lizard man-human relations concerns the HW Malpheggi lizard men, and in this case they sell their services as guides to the highest bidder. As far as Davania is concerned, I haven't explored that dimension (yet). The best culture to examine at first would be the Milenians - how would they react to intelligent reptiles? Would they have a serpent worshipping cult? Probably. The Nithians do, IIRC (or at least, they should). Modern Davanians (here I'm thinking about the ones along the Sea of Dread coast) probably don't have much to do with lizard men. Even the comparatively mercantile Kastelians don't deal much with them - only a tiny handful might venture to the Amalur Lowlands to trade with the tribes there. This bears more consideration - any thoughts? Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:38:50 -0800 From: Darth Darknerd Subject: PC3/Kna and MCA/Kna I was reading about another sea species that is specified in Monterous Compendium Appendix and also PC3: The Sea People (http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/ShadowTriad/crubicle.html). The kna, are clearly shown by the illustration as a bi-pedal humanoid in MCA, but it's lower portion of the body is not specified in the text. There is no movement rate for land in the statistics. The PC3 describes the kna as not having leges but rather a big fin, where it's upper body portion is more humanoid like. So, I am wondering, which is it? I like the humanoid shape as the grapic is really really cool. :-) Here's the question: Are there any other references in any material about the kna? Do they have legs or a big fin? Are there illustrations? - Joaquin __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 09:21:36 -0800 From: Darth Darknerd Subject: Five Shires What classification of government would the Five Shires fall under? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 09:45:18 -0800 From: Darth Darknerd Subject: Traldaran Names Hello all, The Traldarans are the native people that live within Karameikos. This land was called Tradara before the Thyatians renamed it. The Traldarans have a culture similiar to dark ages of Transylvania and Maldavia, both of which contain many Eastern Central European cultures. Maldavia is known for the infamous Vlaad, the Impaler, otherwise known as Count Dracula; "dracula" is little-dragon, referring to the Knights of the Dragon, whom stood to defend against the Turkish incurions. The female names are denoted by (f), and family names commonly end in -escu. A first name would never have an -escu. I'll put out a guide to describe how to go back and forth between family and given names later (and clean up the list as well). An ealier Ravenloft publication have invaluable information detailing the culture of a fantasy-oriented Transylvania, title "A Guide to Transylvania". I highly recommend this book to get a feel for Traladara and the denizens that lurk beyond the shadows of the night... AEG also has a supplement as well dealing with this historical region. ----------------------------------------------------------- A Alexandru Andrei Andrescu Andricu Anatol Arghezi Aurel B Bogdan Bacs Balan Balla Basarab Bentoiu Boariosu Brancoveanu Breban C Calin Constantine Cristian Cazacu Ciobanu Constante Czekonics Czelnai Capoianu Capoitea Ciortea Constantinescu Crelin Ciprian Corneliu D Dragomir Danceanu Deleanu Dimitrescu Doina Dragoi Diaconescu Deacon Dimitrie Dubei Dumitru Drzebet (f) E Eszter Eugent Erdelyi Enescu Eusebiu Evdochia (f) F Forescu G Giurescu Glodeanu H I Ilie Ion Istvan Ionescu Iochimescu Iorgulescu Ispirescu Iorga Ioan J Janos K Karel Karoly Kolchak Kos Kiriac L Lajos Ludovic Lapedatu Lena (f) Lespeanescu Lovinescu Liviu Livia (f) M Magda (f) Matei Mhai Mihnea Milos Mircea Mitru Marbe Marcu Moisescu Musat Mihu Muresianu Martian Mihail Mitroi Marusca (f) Myriam (f) N Nadia (f) Neagoe Nicholae Nemescu Negrea O Octavian Odobescu Olahus Olah P Paul Petru Popescu Porumbescu Q R Radu Ronit Radu Ronit Ruxandra (f) S Serban Stephen Skorzeny Soare Stephanescu Stroe Sabin Sergiu Smaranda (f) T Teodosie Tiberiu Teodorescu Toth Turo Taranu Todea Toduta Tudor Tara (f) U Uri Ursu V Vintila Vladislav Vatamanu Vitez Vancea Vidu Vieru Viteazul Valeriu Voica (f) X-Y-Z Zamfirescu Zeno ----------------------------------------------------------- Hope that is useful. - Joaquin __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:51:09 -0500 From: Castille Baromon de Preto Subject: Re: ThunderRift ThunderRift also has Rakastas from Myoshima, so ThunderRift is within the planescape of Mystara. IMC I opted to place ThunderRift in the Minean Coast of Davania. I also placed several other TSR start-up campaign settings there as well. Dragon's Den and several other lost threads, these modules were never sold or released to the general public, but were subscribed for or used as some other promotion. > > From: Havard Faanes > Date: 2002/12/03 Tue AM 08:09:04 EST > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] ThunderRift > > --- Darth Darknerd skrev: > > Where is ThunderRift anyhow? There are a few D&D > > modules for it, but there's nothing on the campaign. > > Anyone, Anyone? > > There was one product describing the Valley itself, > with a really nice painted color map included. > ThunderRift can be anywhere really. Some have > suggested placing it in Norwold. Any other mountain > range on Mystara would fit aswell. Others have > suggested keeping it a separate plane of existance. > > The adventure module that came with the D&D DM Screen, > apparently allowed the characters to leave Thunder > Rift through a magical gateway and ended up in a > puddle near Bywater, Karameikos. > > Now, I've been thinking about this. > What if the gateway from Bywater was created by the > Hutaakans ca 1000 BC? The humans of ThunderRift are > probably descendants of Traldar slaves the Hutaakans > brought with them. Later, the gateway was forgotten > and deteriorated, a ruined remainder of Hutaakan > exploration. What do you think? > > Anyone with more insight in the Thunder Rift setting > care to expand upon this? > > Håvard > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ > Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 09:54:40 -0800 From: Darth Darknerd Subject: Silent List This list was silent for a while. I can imagine people are busy, especially with finals, projects, etc. I added some discussions hopefully to spark some conversation. I hope people don't get discouraged due to the silence, or the unwanted ramblings by either more passionate, or juvenile persons (as one puts it). If people don't like some e-mail, just don't read it. But please don't leave the list or be discouraged. There's still some innovation. My projects will include moving stuff to D&D3e, homegrown Mystara creations/adapations (mainly in Karameikos region), and also module conversions (D&D3e). I hope to assemble a local RPG group and run through B10: Night's Dark Terror, A1-4: Scourge of the Slavelords, or Cult of the Reptile God and T1-4: Temple of Elemental Evil. I might also consider Deserts of Desolation, which would take PCs from Ylaruam to Nithia in Hollow World. Eitherway, I want to do a big module, intwine it in Mystara, and have a lot of fun. And along the way, the converted/augmented works would be material to save others lots of work, and spark the creative juices... regards, Joaquin __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 09:56:12 -0800 From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: ThunderRift I believe Thunder Rift is next to the Dymark Forest as I think to recall = they tie in somehow.=20 JK Wolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:00:23 -0800 From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Iron Ring vs. SotSL IMC the Iron Ring have set up shop in Freeport (Pt. Siers) but are soon = found out and are raided. Of course in retaliation, many of the guard and = members of the Silent Network turn up dead. This is just a side plot that = doesn't really affect my players but is a sidenote in the local newspaper.= =20 :) JK Wolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 13:01:55 -0500 From: Castille Baromon de Preto Subject: Re: [jdaly@friend.ly.net: FW: Rejected posting to > > Thanks, that's more or less what I'd have expected. In which case > discussions on the digestive biology of elves is neither off topic nor out > of bounds on taste grounds. A shame to lose a good tcontributor to this > mailing list over such a matter. > I have my own opinions of good taste, but I would never shove my good taste on any one else. One of the best tools for communication is the internet, and the best part about this list is the delete button on your keyboard for any offensive material to your own good judgement. We have had several people in the past that have disliked something or someone on the list leave. Several very good people were personaly asked to come back, thank you George for being one of those special people that have withstood the wasted bandwidth and came back to this list. As for the resent coments on elves, I thought they were quite silly, but loved the part of the half-elf line of discussion. It just shows you have to wade through a pile of @%$& before you get to the gold. If someone could kindly invite Jeff back, I am sure he would be happy to contribute to our more sane discussions. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:34:43 -0800 From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Five Shires At 09:21 12/3/2002 -0800, you wrote: > What classification of government would the Five > Shires fall under? Elected republic. While it's not a true democracy in the present sense -- with local power being in the hands of a hereditary aristocracy -- the sheriffs are elected by representatives of the people and have broad powers to enact laws and policies. (And you guys thought I was gone!) BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:47:10 +1300 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Carnifex (was: A Guide to Human Ethnography) > Thus, if > there were an artifact there, it could have been damaged, turning the > once-verdant jungle valley into the semi-lush region that would become > Nithia (perhaps this was also when that portal to the plane of fire > opened, too?). This process, however, was part of a gradual change, so > that the area occupied by Nithia would have inevitably turned into > a desert - the creation of the Canolbarth forest greatly accelerated > that process. Just a thought. I seem to recall somewhere in Gaz 5 that Canolbarth under alfheim effectively steals the rainfall from the ylarium area for itself. Essentially alfhiem might be a prety arid place if it wern't for this. I always imagined that if the rain was stoped in alfhiem that it would start in ylarium turning it into a lush area. By stealing the rain from this area it effectively limits the growth and exploration of ylarium and protects the secrets of nithia through this. (therefore achieving some other immortal goals as well as goals of the elves) This said however there is no reason that the magic could not have been based on already established artifacts of the carnifex. In fact they could be what cause some of the good and bad magic points in the forest. The high amount of magic that is needed to divert the rain to alfhiem congrigates/eminates around these points which also causes a certain amount of dimentional instability (one of the magics used to divert the rain). This could potentially be why the entrance to the kingdom of the faries was in alfhiem and shuts with the coruption of the forest. Perhaps also the shadow elves know more about these artifacts then the alfhiem elves do. The tendancy of the magic points to shift or disappear at times could actually be because the artifacts are being moved around occationally by the subterainian occupants and this knowledge is what allows the shadow elves to corupt the forest. I would say that the alfhiemers may not actually know why the magic worked so well here, just that it did. What actually happened was the magic was amplified and enhanced by the artifacts already there and in turn served to re- activate/invigorate them meaning that it is not as easily duplicated elsewhere (at least not to the same scale). The original function of the artifacts may have been quite different. Hell if I was to turn an area into jungle I wouldn't steal someone elses rainfall I would tap the elemental plane of water (or even the sea or a lake). I mean a permanent gate and some dispursing magic and your done (thus the potential for dimentional instability). Just some thoughts. Chris. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:56:58 +1300 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Eye of Traldar > Did anyone get this module > (http://www.flash.net/~brenfrow/dd/dd-dda3.htm)? I > read it long ago, and I thought the castle design was > so embarrassing pathetic. > > I was wondering if the FR Zhentrium area was detailed > out? Perhaps this can be a better substitute for the > pathetic castle in Eye of Traldar module. I had great fun runing eye of traldar, the thing with the castle is that you have to remember it is not a castle, just a outer side section of fort doom (which is huge by all reports). I thought it quite appropriate that you could get into this part by secret dungeons but it didn't actually get you into a main area by a long shot. It was a shame that they didn't give some info on the rest of fort doom and the surounding town but it wasn't really needed for the module as it had nothing to do with the mission and you'd have no hope at that level anyway. It would be cool to see halag and the rest of fort doom detailed though. I've been thinking about it for a while now. Chris. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:16:08 -0800 From: John Calvin Subject: Marilenev Rebellion Hi all, Well, I'm testing out some ideas that I've got for a campaign set in Karameikos around 970 AC, sometime just after the Marilenev Rebellion. I'm toying with the idea that the Cult of Halav was an established (but little respected) cult even before Stephan Karameikos took over the country. Once the Thyatians came in force under Stephan, the cult flocked to the current Lord Marilenev (by the way, does anyone know his first name?). They convinced Lord Marilenev that he was Halav reborn, and that he would be the one to lead his people against the invaders. Whether or not Marilenev belived them is unknown. Perhaps he did. Perhaps he saw in the cult a way to grasp more power for himself. Whatever his reasonings were, Lord Marilenev chose to ally himself with the cult, and rebell against the Thyatians. When the rebellion was crushed, so too was the cult. Most people ridiculed them for backing Marilenev with the beliefe that he was actually Halav reborn. The cult began to crumble and fall apart. However, a few members of the cult reasoned that since Stephan won the battle, then perhaps he was actually Halav reborn. The cult split over this issue, and eventualy those who believed in Stephan won out. Any additional comments or feedback that could help me flesh out this idea would be welcomed. -John ===== Rule #85. I will not use any plan in which the final step is horribly complicated, e.g. "Align the 12 Stones of Power on the sacred altar then activate the medallion at the moment of total eclipse." Instead it will be more along the lines of "Push the button." from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:20:00 -0600 From: Stone Marshall Subject: Re: [jdaly@friend.ly.net: FW: Rejected posting to
>If you wouldn't say it in polite company, don't say it here.
 
Are we talking about the gaming table company or my wife's grandparents house company?
 
 
 
                                                                Multizar the Mage
 

Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 17:12:25 EST From: Shawn Johnson Subject: Re: Eye of Traldar In a message dated 12/3/02 6:06:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, darknerd2k@YAHOO.COM writes: > Did anyone get this module > (http://www.flash.net/~brenfrow/dd/dd-dda3.htm)? I > read it long ago, and I thought the castle design was > so embarrassing pathetic. > > I was wondering if the FR Zhentrium area was detailed > out? Perhaps this can be a better substitute for the > pathetic castle in Eye of Traldar module. > > - jm Are you aware that the keep used in that module is /only/ the outer "gatehouse" keep of the Baron's Fortress (Fort Doom)? If you do happen to find a good stand-in for Fort Doom's main fortress please mention it on the MML though! ---- Shawn J. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 17:13:35 EST From: Shawn Johnson Subject: Re: ThunderRift In a message dated 12/3/02 8:27:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,=20 havardfaa@YAHOO.NO writes:=20 > Now, I've been thinking about this. > What if the gateway from Bywater was created by the > Hutaakans ca 1000 BC? The humans of ThunderRift are > probably descendants of Traldar slaves the Hutaakans > brought with them. Later, the gateway was forgotten > and deteriorated, a ruined remainder of Hutaakan > exploration. What do you think? > =20 > Anyone with more insight in the Thunder Rift setting > care to expand upon this? > =20 > H=E5vard It would be pretty difficult and messy to mesh the two valleys=20 together because Thunder Rift is significantly different (& larger) than the= =20 Lost Valley of Hutaaka. The Lost Valley is described in detail in B10 (the= =20 map even shows positions of individual shrines) and Thunder Rift is equally=20 detailed. You can always blend the two, if you want, but the changes are=20 going to have to be pretty drastic. There are plenty of places in various=20 mountain ranges to place it though---just remember it's kinda big though (at= =20 least 5 miles wide and 20 long, I think). ---- Shawn J., ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 17:16:21 EST From: Shawn Johnson Subject: Addakia (was M-Babylon or... ) Is this post late or what? I meant to post this on 11/25 but rushing around T-day distracted me, hopefully it'll still be useful. In a message dated 11/25/02 7:16:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, fvnmd@INFO.COM.PH writes: > Hail Mystarans! > > A simple question: > Is there (or has there been once) some kind of M-Babylon or M-Sumeria > civilization on Mystara? > > Kit Navarro > enhcnater_from_glantri@yahoo.com Boy Kit, you received quite a variety of answers for your simple question! Although those were all very interesting ideas thrown out and Nimmur /is/ of Sumerian flavor, there is still one official (yet obscure) civilization that was overlooked! In the Master Set (black box, with gold dragon on it, circa 1985), on the inside cover of the DM's Book, is a world map of Mystara. The very first "kingdom" listed in the key is Addakia. Since most Mystaran kingdom names usually hint at their real world counterparts, I've always assumed this one was similar to RW Sumer. [Addakia was the RW name of an early Near-Eastern civilization (although I don't remember which one), so perhaps you could find info to tie in with Sumer or Babylon.] If you don't have that boxed set, but do have a map of Davania---it is located in north central Davania. First, find the "narrow" sea that splits the two sides of northern Davania. Addakia rests along the eastern shore, between the mountains near the mouth of the sea and the mountains to the south. It extends northward into the heartlands about as deeply as the northern mountain range does. BTW, I like your idea of a pre-Alphatian civilization spanning Davania & Alphatia. To make it work with canon (that is if you bother with such niceties), they would've had to diminish greatly before Millenia arose, leaving the outlying colonies (in Alphatia & in Addakia) too weak to ever reform the empire. ---- Shawn J. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:00:52 +0100 From: =?us-ascii?Q?Andres_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Five Shires As per GAZ8 and PWA, it's a clan-based elective system (clan leaders elect each shire's sheriff), so IMO it would be an olygarchy (only the aristocracy of elders have voice and vote in the election of an appointed officer). The 5 shires together would be a confederacy of clan-based olygarchies. You can call it democracy, as Beau has, but in a very restrictive sense: most of the decision power falls on elders, which is not a direct election office, but comes of of personal excellence in the community. Andres ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:00:11 +0800 From: "Francisco V. Navarro V" Subject: Re: Addakia and Yezchamenid Hail Mystarans! Hail descendants of Adakkia! By the Immortals, I checked my Known World map (in RC) and did find Adakkia! The name is obviously taken from the RW Akkadia and by the looks of it (at least, based on that RC map), the geography of the place is quite similar to its RW counterpart. Andres Piquer Otero did so eloquently informed us of the whole Mesopotamia-Akkadia-Sumeria-Assyria-Babylonia-Persia connection (plus Egypt/Nithia and Arabia/Ylaruam, if you will). And I read through the collaborated work of Christian Constantin and Adrian Mattias on the Yezchamenid Empire (great stuff!) located in far western Brun, on the other side of the Izondian Deep. This does raise a few more questions: 1. How do we collaborate/reconcile all this information? Specifically, how do we connect the Adakkian civilization in Davania with the Yezchamenid Empire in Brun? One idea I have is that the earlier Adakkian civilization (M-Mesopotamia-Sumeria-Akkadia) began in Davania, along the banks of the Adakkian Sound. On the eastern (Adakkian) side, it was bordered by the Aryptian Basin (desert) to the east and the Adakkian Mounts to the north. On the western (Izondan) side, it was bordered by the Desert of Izonda in the south and west, and the Izondian Wall (mountains) and the Izondian Deep (ocean) to the north. The empire eventually grew westward, crossing the Strait of Izonda northwards to Brun, eastablish colonies along the coast of the Immortal's Arm, as far north as the Yalu Bay (present location of the Yezchamenid). This would have been a fairly large cilivization all aorund the Izondian Deep! And Shawn J. proposed that the empire "would've had to diminish greatly before Millenia arose, leaving the outlying colonies (in Alphatia & in Addakia) too weak to ever reform the empire." So I propose a "Tower of Babel" event in its history, similar to the Destruction of Nithia. One Adakkian/Izondian ruler wanted to unite the world and build a tower, so the Immortals smote the tower and the kingdom/empire (with the Immotal's Arm?). This was a warning to the proud mortals, which unfortunately, the Nithians did not learn later on (and we know what happened to them!). With the old empire fragmented, a new empire emerged from the northern colonies (M-Babylon-Persia), which became the present day Yezchamenid. 1.1 But, this will pose another question: How did the Alphatians (all the way to the other side of Brun) get in contact with the Adakkians, a.k.a. "The Shedu Connection? The only way I can make the scenario work is with magic. Two scenarios: #1 Among the people in the Adakkian/Izondian/Aryptian reagion would be the warlike conqueror people (M-Assyrians). There would be many great battles and wars in the region, and perhaps in one great, crucial war (perhaps an assualt on the capital of the empire), the entire invading army (or military camp/city) was magically transported far away, beyond the Kingdom of Nithia (i.e. the uninhabited Alphatian continent). Those warriors could find no way home, and had no choice but to settle there. They had some contact with the Nithians, blended in with the proto-Ylari, and were taken over by the Alphatians. #2 This is related to the "Tower of Babel" event. One of the motives of constructing the Tower of Babel was to unite the world under a single empire. Perhaps the Adakkian rulers developed very powerful magic or found a very powerful artifact that allowed them to transport large groups of people (i.e. conquering armies, raiding parties, colonizers) over great distances. With such magical power, the dream of a world-wide empire actually became possible! So the Adakkians transported their people to the north of the Izondian Deep (establishing the Yezchamenid) and on the other side of the Kingdom of Nithia (i.e. the uninhabited Alphatian continent), perhaps for a military strike. To commemorate, the Adakkians built the Tower of M-Babel. And when the Immortals struck them down, the Adakkians on Alphatia were left on their own. Alternately, the Tower of M-Babel itself could have been a powerful "transport chamber". Climbing it, one could see the entire world, and from it, the Adakkian magic-users/priests transported their people. 2. A question I would like to pose to Christian and Adrian: In writing the Yezchamenid, did you have any RW counterparts in mind? For example, Zaranasterism=RW Zoroasterism Ishteri (Valerias) = Ishtar Hattas = Hittite Kit Navarro Adventurer, Speculator, and Traveler to Little Known Parts ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shawn Johnson" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 6:16 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] Addakia (was M-Babylon or... ) > Is this post late or what? I meant to post this on 11/25 but rushing > around T-day distracted me, hopefully it'll still be useful. > > In a message dated 11/25/02 7:16:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, > fvnmd@INFO.COM.PH writes: > > Hail Mystarans! > > > > A simple question: > > Is there (or has there been once) some kind of M-Babylon or M-Sumeria > > civilization on Mystara? > > > > Kit Navarro > > enhcnater_from_glantri@yahoo.com > > Boy Kit, you received quite a variety of answers for your simple > question! > Although those were all very interesting ideas thrown out and Nimmur /is/ of > Sumerian flavor, there is still one official (yet obscure) civilization that > was overlooked! > > In the Master Set (black box, with gold dragon on it, circa 1985), on > the inside cover of the DM's Book, is a world map of Mystara. The very > first "kingdom" listed in the key is Addakia. Since most Mystaran kingdom > names usually hint at their real world counterparts, I've always assumed this > one was similar to RW Sumer. [Addakia was the RW name of an early > Near-Eastern civilization (although I don't remember which one), so perhaps > you could find info to tie in with Sumer or Babylon.] > > If you don't have that boxed set, but do have a map of Davania---it is > located in north central Davania. First, find the "narrow" sea that splits > the two sides of northern Davania. Addakia rests along the eastern shore, > between the mountains near the mouth of the sea and the mountains to the > south. It extends northward into the heartlands about as deeply as the > northern mountain range does. > > BTW, I like your idea of a pre-Alphatian civilization spanning Davania > & Alphatia. To make it work with canon (that is if you bother with such > niceties), they would've had to diminish greatly before Millenia arose, > leaving the outlying colonies (in Alphatia & in Addakia) too weak to ever > reform the empire. > > ---- Shawn J. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:05:54 +0100 From: =?us-ascii?Q?Andres_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Addakia (was M-Babylon or... ) Yes, Addakia sounds close to the RW Akkad... On the other hand, checking all the timelines and migrations in the dawn of Mystaran civilizations, what big imperial-like human culture would be there??? There are reports of elves, halfings, all migrating there due to post Blackmoor climatic changes, then finally making it up north. I think there's some info on gnomes there, isn't it? I remember the Masters set map (and the hilarious later writeups about how big a Thyatian hoax it was...), but I got it after reading through the HW box set world history, so I always associated its name with a late Elven or even Halfling post-Blackmoor civilization... Unless unless, the name can point at a really old Blackmoor time human empire. Andres ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 2 Dec 2002 to 3 Dec 2002 (#2002-312) **************************************************************