Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 3 Dec 2002 to 4 Dec 2002 (#2002-313) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 05/12/2002, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 18 messages totalling 965 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Addakia and Yezchamenid 2. Marilenev Rebellion (4) 3. Karameikan Humanoid Biases 4. ThunderRift (2) 5. explanation 6. Addakia and Yezchamenid (3) 7. Addakia (2) 8. Addakia, Yezchamenid, and Nithia (3) 9. Isle of Dread/Kopru ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 07:25:52 +0000 From: adrian mattias Subject: Re: Addakia and Yezchamenid Francisco, > 2. A question I would like to pose to Christian and Adrian: In writing the > Yezchamenid, did you have any RW counterparts in mind? > > For example, Zaranasterism=RW Zoroasterism > Ishteri (Valerias) = Ishtar > Hattas = Hittite Good guesses! The Yezchamenid Empire is looslely based on a variety of RW middle east cultures, the Hittites, Sumer, Babylon, Persia etc. This is reflected in the culturally different provinces of the Yezchamenid Empire. I like your ideas re Adakkia etc. The way Christian rendered the history of the Empire, the Yezchamenid had early contact with the Enduks after the Great Rain of Fire, and that the Yez adopted much of the culture and technology of the Enduks - hence the Nimmur/Yez similiarity to RW middle-eastern empires. The Yez are also influenced by the culture of a large group of Pegataurs living on the high plateaus in the middle of the empire. Perhaps one way of reconciling the Yesz history, with the one that you suggest, is that a nascent group of cities states (that later become the Yez) come under the influence of Addakia (perhaps as client states rather than as subjects) and that when Adakkia falls, the city states develop along separate lines, but with some Adakkian influence. Another thing that I had in mind when developing the cultures of Western Brun, was to have room for military and cultural conflict between M-Imperial Russia (the Zuyevans) and M-Persians (the Yez). Never really happened in the RW, so I was interested to develop that sort of conflict for Mystara. Adrian _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:14:00 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: Re: Marilenev Rebellion > Any additional comments or feedback that could help > me flesh out this idea > would be welcomed. > I like the idea. Maybe you preferred a more creative comment? 8-) ===== Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis "We poor few forged as brothers in this furnace will emerge as the steel of future generations" -- from "Legionary's Prayers", by Ionaos Nolan ______________________________________________________________________ Per te Blu American Express รจ gratis! http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://www.americanexpress.it/land_yahoo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 13:01:00 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: Re: Marilenev Rebellion I think your idea is very good, since it makes the Cult of Halav a more credible actor. Instead of being just your run-of-the-mill whackoes, they are a messianic cult with longer roots. This would allow you to create a convincing theological-political background to the cult. There was a prophet from the Church of Traladara whose writings were not accepted into the canon of the church. Perhaps the prophet took a fragment of the Song of Halav, the one promising the Return of the King (hehee), and interpreted/distorted/revealed its meaning. (I don't have the Karameikan Gazetteer at hand now, so I don't remember what it says about Sergeyev and the birht of the cult.) IMC there has been a split in the Cult, too. The old guard is still "following" Stephan, but a fraction of cultists discovered that the True Son of Halav would return to Traladara. This was a son of Magda Marilenev (she has been already excecuted IMC, after leading another rebellion attempt). Magda made "a business trip" to Darokin ages ago to shield her pregnancy, and has a son there... Well, the PCs crushed this fraction, anyway. Your idea of staging a campaign before 1000AC has also the possibility of making the new Cult a milleniarian one. Perhaps they "know" something will take place in 1000AC? Ville ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:02:20 +0100 From: Felix Holtschoppen Subject: Karameikan Humanoid Biases Hi, I was wondering what the rural population of Karameikos might think concerning the beastmen mentioned in "The song of Halav". Who were they? In the eyes of the traladaran believer, I mean. Would the common Traladaran kill every furcovered humanoid on sight in religious fervor? Gnolls only? What about bugbears or, travelling to other countries rakasta, lupins, etc.? Any comments? Felix ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:57:44 +0000 From: Ricardo Matheus Subject: Re: ThunderRift Hi there IMC, which started and was played in Thunder Rift till the players were at least level 5, I set the vale as a pocket dimension (or plane I'm not sure about the terminology) with links to Mystara in the Broken Lands. The vale was first colonized by Darokinian people and then received the colonists from Rockhome (during the gold rush to Glantri) and Alfheim (I'm not sure when). Some time later a small militaristic religious sect from Myoshima took control of the entrance. This sect was eventually overrun by orcs, goblins and such, which took control of the entrance and of the mountains all around Thunder Rift. Later a Red Dragon took control of the small vale where the entrance is located in Thunder Rift. It is stated in the Thunder Rift supplement that the travel inside and outside TR was difficult because the mountains were full of humanoids but there was an old legend about a pass in the dragons' domains. I never took time to make a timeline out of this (anyone?) and maybe there are huge mistakes of timing but I plan to use some part of it in the comics that I anounced some time ago. Regards Ricardo Matheus a.k.a. Darkblood Owner of the Mystara's Map Navigator (www.geocities.com/darkblood18) _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:17:04 +0100 From: Glim Garrick Subject: Re: Marilenev Rebellion Currently I am DMing a campaign in Karameikos AC 1013. One of my players is of direct Marilenev bloodline - grandson of Magda Marilenev. The character is sort of pirate with strong chaotic orientation due to prolonged distrust and hatred to Thyatian rule represented by king Stefan. He just joined Kingdom of Thieves to add to his highly romantic, bold but unlawful soul. He is not fully aware of his family background and of his living relatives. One of side-stories is based upon his ambition to purify the name of Marilenev and bring back the glory of family. brothers Magda ------------------ hus. Marilenev ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yuriy ------------------ wife Irina (head of clan) (died in rebellion) (died in rebellion) (died 980AC) / / / / / / daughter Alya ------------------ husband Ilia -------------------------------------------------------------------- (exiled in Darokin) (died in 2nd rebellion) / / / son Peter ------------------ wife Roxana son Iordan (spouseless) / (imprisoned) (leader of Cult of Dragon Claw) / son Rodin (PC) aka Dude Luke / (junior of KoT) / / daughter Irina (senior of Kingdom of Thieves) What Rodin knows/thinks: - his mother and grandmother - as all family he assumes his uncle Peter dead What he is not aware of: - his uncle Peter has been imprisoned for 15 years now under the city of Kelvin, currently preparing escape and possibly revenge upon Kingdom - does not know about his wife Roxana and daughter Irina Facts about living family: Magda - i am stuck more or less with description in Gaz 1/K:KoA Alya is well situated member of Darokin merchant society, she fled from Karameikos with her 4 years old son about 16 years ago after dead of his husband and cousin (supposed). Is not willing to come back to Karameikos, married another rich merchant about 10 years ago. Peter - imprisoned uncle of Rodin - potential head of clan after dead of Magda (not likely unless political situation in Karameikos changes rapidly). If escape attempt is successful he will likely try to establish well-prepared group of Traladaran followers to corrupt the state authorities and expel Stefan - very dangerous for state as he is natural charismatic leader able to attract both followers, funds and information. Roxana - originally she was member of Cult of Halav believing Marilenev is returned king of Traladara, she left the Cult after first rebellion when some powerful but mistaken members declared Stefan as the long-awaited hero of Traladara people. After death of her husband Peter (supposed) she left Karamaikos and settled in Minrothad. As potent priest with bitter past whe has been contacted by dragon to head the group of followers called Cult of Dragon Claw. Currently this group controls Karameikos, Thyatis, Minrothad, Ierendi and some independent islands. Irina - fun-loving, open-minded, extremely dexterious 23 year old bisexual girl. cousin of Rodin. currently one of original 7 members of Kingdom of Thieves - close friend of Alya from childhood, heads as senior one of importan division of guild - very dangerous thief due to her quick and very rational mind and unbelievably high dexterity (22). Is supposed to fall in love with Rodin, vice versa - I wonder how this option will be exploited by my very experienced player. Cult of Dragon Claw - long story perhaps I will explain sometime in the future - worldwide evil organization. The ultimate purpose of leader - dragoness Valya - is to seek the power to control the dragons and all races of Mystara and achieve Immortality among dragons. Currently she controls through her network 36 regions of Mystara, all of them under leadership of lesser dragons who build up cells headed by High Priests (these and lower ranks are not fully aware of aim of Valya - truly they even do not know about Valya). The ultimate goal of these High Priest is to gather all possible information on so called Godly Pattern. The understanding of this Pattern is the key to control fully magic and nature of Mystara and is even beyond the reach of Immortals except the most powerful. It allows to create new races, use magic to its full extent, etc. There is belief that all powerful empires (Blackmoor, Thonya, Nithia, Taymor, Alpathia, etc) were superior to all others because had been able to find some piece (not in material sense) of this Godly Pattern. So followers of Cult actively seek for every piece of ancient civilization to learn the trick and report to dragons. Valya believes that she will be finally able to assemble the puzzle and grab the power and tap the source. Btw, Valya is sister of another PC. There is story that if dragon (in human form) seduces the human lady of opposite alignment and she delivers baby such baby can achieve Immortality. The chance of succesful breeding is very small but this is potential reason why dragons hunt virgins (fairy story obviously). Dragons got ancient and much more detailed story about this. One ancient red dragon seduced the Traladaran woman - priestess of Church of Traladara and she delivered twins - boy (PC) who is half-dragon with some limited dragon powers which will come to full blossom only when PC meets the conditions necessary (he does not even know about them) and girl (Valya) who is full red dragon. The legacy was obvious since birth - the dragon-girl (now 30) is 3 age categories higher than normal and controls all younger dragons of evil alignment. And she will continually grow in power as other dragons do. After birth the dragon killed the priestess and recognizing lesser genetic potential of son planned to kil him as well. The boy survived and grew up. Father has taken the girl to deserted island to take care of her and now is her mentor and closest guardian. Hope at the very high level my PC knows the background, bloodline and will have chance to fight or join the evil. I hope he will take latter. OK, I hope you will be able to decipher my scheme above and find the story exciting or at least not boresome. Any comments welcome. I got very limited access to cannon materials so probably some facts I presented are in breach with official story but who cares - it is my story. Chuckie ____________________________________________________________________ Informacie obsiahnute v tomto dokumente su urcene vylucne pre potreby jeho adresata. Dokument moze obsahovat informacie chranene ako bankove alebo obchodne tajomstvo, pripadne informacie podliehajuce ochrane podla inych pravnych predpisov. Preto Vas v pripade, ak Vam bol mylne doruceny, vyzyvame, aby ste sa zdrzali jeho odtajnenia ci jeho pouzitia pre vlastne potreby. Zaroven si Vas dovolujeme poziadat, aby ste nas o takomto pripade bez zbytocneho odkladu informovali a dokument nasledne zlikvidovali. Information stated in this document is intended only for needs of proper addressees of this document. This document can contain information protected as a bank or business secret, or information protected by other legal regulations. Thus in case of receiving the document by error, we kindly ask you not to disclose, or use the document for your own needs. Likewise we kindly ask you to notify us immediately upon such a case by sending an email message to the sender's address, and subsequently delete the document. Tatra banka, a.s. Hodzovo namestie 3, 811 06 Bratislava 1 ICO: 00 686 930 Zapisana v obchodnom registri Okresneho sudu Bratislava I Oddiel: Sa, vlozka cislo: 71/B ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:06:28 +0100 From: Glim Garrick Subject: explanation As I see the scheme provided in my previous e-mail is completely undecipherable. So I try to tinkle you imagination and explain in words. Lord Marilenev (former head of clan) - brother Yuriy - wife Lady Magda - daughter Alya died in 1st rebellion Lord Yuriy - wife Irina - sons Peter and Iordan died in 1st rebellion Lady Irina - died 980AC Alya - husband Ilia - son Rodin (PC) lives in Darokin married rich merchant AC 1013 Ilia died in 2nd rebellion Peter - wife Roxana - daughter Irina imprisoned suring 2nd rebellion, supposed to be dead Roxana local leader of Cult of Dragon Claw (High Priestess Iordan - spouseless, childless lonely wolf, his fate unknown for other members of family, lives lonely life of Druid in Dymrak Forest on the borders with Thyatis - not attentive to politics and family matters, was in close relation with his older brother Peter, after his imprisonment cut family ties. Irina senior of KoT Rodin (PC) aka Dude Luke left with mother Karameikos in age of 4, obtained standard Darokin education, returned to Karameikos in 1008 (than 16) to pass shearing. He spent shearing years as sailor, considers himself pirate, when 20 finished shearing and upon recommendation of close family friend Sergiy (former Head of Intelligence Service of Marilenevs) joined KoT as a junior. I hope it will be more helpful. ____________________________________________________________________ Informacie obsiahnute v tomto dokumente su urcene vylucne pre potreby jeho adresata. Dokument moze obsahovat informacie chranene ako bankove alebo obchodne tajomstvo, pripadne informacie podliehajuce ochrane podla inych pravnych predpisov. Preto Vas v pripade, ak Vam bol mylne doruceny, vyzyvame, aby ste sa zdrzali jeho odtajnenia ci jeho pouzitia pre vlastne potreby. Zaroven si Vas dovolujeme poziadat, aby ste nas o takomto pripade bez zbytocneho odkladu informovali a dokument nasledne zlikvidovali. Information stated in this document is intended only for needs of proper addressees of this document. This document can contain information protected as a bank or business secret, or information protected by other legal regulations. Thus in case of receiving the document by error, we kindly ask you not to disclose, or use the document for your own needs. Likewise we kindly ask you to notify us immediately upon such a case by sending an email message to the sender's address, and subsequently delete the document. Tatra banka, a.s. Hodzovo namestie 3, 811 06 Bratislava 1 ICO: 00 686 930 Zapisana v obchodnom registri Okresneho sudu Bratislava I Oddiel: Sa, vlozka cislo: 71/B ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:48:40 -0800 From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Marilenev Rebellion Thanks to all for the comments - even to Giulio ;p THey have helped stir up some more ideas. > This would allow you to create a convincing theological-political > background to the cult. There was a prophet from the Church of Traladara > whose writings were not accepted into the canon of the church. Perhaps the > prophet took a fragment of the Song of Halav, the one promising the Return > of the King (hehee), and interpreted/distorted/revealed its meaning. (I > don't have the Karameikan Gazetteer at hand now, so I don't remember what > it says about Sergeyev and the birht of the cult.) I like this. I can't remember about Sergeyev either so I'll have to check him out when I get home tonight. A logical point to place the formation of the cult would be around 700AC, shortly after the Thyatains first invaded Traladara. > Magda made "a business trip" to Darokin ages ago to shield her > pregnancy, and has a son there... Well, the PCs crushed this fraction, > anyway. Another good idea, and one echoed by Glim as well. I hadn't thought about this possibility, but now that you mention it I think it's a damn good idea. It creates quite a bit of possible intrigue around 970AC as well. 1) Magda has to hide her pregnancy (from the Thyatians who might not be happy with a Marilenev heir, and from the Stephan faction of the Cult of Halav). 2) Sneaking Magda out of the country would be tricky at best. The Thyatians probably would not want to loosen their grip on her for fear that she might be gathering foriegn allies. 3) Once the child is born, it will have to be protected. 4) When (and if) the child reaches maturity it will have to return to Traladara and claim its birthright. Perhaps the reason that the Stephan splinter of the Cult of Halav gains power is because no one of the Marilenev sect remains in Traladara. They are all secreted away somewhere in Darokin (or elsewhere) protecting "Halav reborn." > Your idea of staging a campaign before 1000AC has also the possibility of > making the new Cult a milleniarian one. Perhaps they "know" something will > take place in 1000AC? Right. They "know" because they intend to engineer it. A child born around 970 would be just the right age in 1000 to return to his homeland and start a new revolution. Ohh.. just think of all of the trouble such a person could cause for Stephan during the WotI. And of course the Marilenev sect of the Cult of Halav would return with him. Hmmm... just some ideas off of the top of my head... What if Magda has twins, one male and one female. The cult might spend all of its time protecting the male heir, when in reality the female heir will be the one they want - the real Halav reborn (or at the very least chosen as a prophet by the immortal). The Marilenev Sect could also complicate things by finding other children born at the same time and secreting them off as well. These children would be used as "false trails" for any who would thwart their plans. And of course all of them would be raised to believe that they were the great hero Halav, who will one day return to their homeland and save their people. ===== Rule #85. I will not use any plan in which the final step is horribly complicated, e.g. "Align the 12 Stones of Power on the sacred altar then activate the medallion at the moment of total eclipse." Instead it will be more along the lines of "Push the button." from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:43:33 EST From: Shawn Johnson Subject: ThunderRift In a message dated 12/3/02 8:27:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,=20 havardfaa@YAHOO.NO writes:=20 > Now, I've been thinking about this. > What if the gateway from Bywater was created by the > Hutaakans ca 1000 BC? The humans of ThunderRift are > probably descendants of Traldar slaves the Hutaakans > brought with them. Later, the gateway was forgotten > and deteriorated, a ruined remainder of Hutaakan > exploration. What do you think? > =20 > Anyone with more insight in the Thunder Rift setting > care to expand upon this? > =20 > H=E5vard It would be pretty difficult and messy to mesh the two valleys togethe= r=20 because Thunder Rift is significantly different (& larger) than the Lost=20 Valley of Hutaaka. The Lost Valley is described in detail in B10 (the map=20 even shows positions of individual shrines) and Thunder Rift is equally=20 detailed. You can always blend the two, if you want, but the changes are=20 going to have to be pretty drastic. There are plenty of places in various=20 mountain ranges to place it though---just remember it's kinda big though (at= =20 least 5 miles wide and 20 long, I think). ---- Shawn J., ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:46:30 EST From: Shawn Johnson Subject: Re: Addakia and Yezchamenid In a message dated 12/3/02 8:10:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, fvnmd@INFO.COM.PH writes: > So I propose a "Tower of Babel" event in its history, similar to the > Destruction of Nithia. One Adakkian/Izondian ruler wanted to unite the > world > and build a tower, so the Immortals smote the tower and the kingdom/empire > (with the Immotal's Arm?). This was a warning to the proud mortals, which > unfortunately, the Nithians did not learn later on (and we know what > happened to them!). With the old empire fragmented, a new empire emerged > from the northern colonies (M-Babylon-Persia), which became the present day > Yezchamenid. I like it, does any Mystaran material say whether the Nimmurians (aren't they the scorpion-men?) were cursed by someone? If they were cursed by the Immortals, it ties in perfectly with this Tower of Babel event. > 1.1 But, this will pose another question: How did the Alphatians (all the > way to the other side of Brun) get in contact with the Adakkians, a.k.a. > "The Shedu Connection? The only way I can make the scenario work is with > magic. If there was an outlying colony, there may have been impressive ruins---with impressive magic. The Alphatians could've adopted the creature into their mythos simply because they liked it. Or perhaps there was a group of Shedu protecting the colony or its ruins and the early Alphatians came to respect it as a guardian creature (and then adopted it). ----Shawn J. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:29:04 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Addakia and Yezchamenid Su 04 Dec 2002 14:46:30 -0500, Shawn Johnson ha scritto: > > > 1.1 But, this will pose another question: How did the Alphatians (all the > > way to the other side of Brun) get in contact with the Adakkians, a.k.a. > > "The Shedu Connection? The only way I can make the scenario work is with > > magic. > > If there was an outlying colony, there may have been impressive > ruins---with impressive magic. The Alphatians could've adopted the creature > into their mythos simply because they liked it. Or perhaps there was a > group of Shedu protecting the colony or its ruins and the early Alphatians > came to respect it as a guardian creature (and then adopted it). Interestingly enough, there has been some contact between the people of the Tangor region and the Arm of the Immortal, which led to the creation of the Kingdoms of Gombar and Suma'a (sp?). Probably the half-ogres of that land reached Alphatia and Addakia as well, acting as a medium for the diffusion of elements of the Addakian culture in Skothar, and from there to Alphatia. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:02:02 EST From: Shawn Johnson Subject: Re: Addakia In a message dated 12/3/02 10:51:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, erewan@TERRA.ES writes: > Yes, Addakia sounds close to the RW Akkad... On the other hand, checking all > the timelines and migrations in the dawn of Mystaran civilizations, what > big > imperial-like human culture would be there??? There are reports of elves, > halfings, all migrating there due to post Blackmoor climatic changes, then > finally making it up north. I think there's some info on gnomes there, > isn't I don't think Kit is trying to stick that close to official Mystara, but those migrations don't necessarily discount such an empire, especially if it was in decline already. But if Kit did want the idea to mesh well, the very fact that elves and other demihumans chose to ultimately move on, seems to indicate something drove them on. Large migrations in RW history were forced to keep moving until a suitable settlement site was discovered. But sometimes the choice lands were already occupied by a force that was unfriendly /and/ strong enough to drive them out. Who could do that to the elves? Sort of implies a strong civilization /might/ have been there (that is, of course, if you want it to be). > it? I remember the Masters set map (and the hilarious later writeups about > how big a Thyatian hoax it was...), but I got it after reading through the > HW box set world history, so I always associated its name with a late Elven > or even Halfling post-Blackmoor civilization... Unless unless, the name > can point at a really old Blackmoor time human empire. That's a neat idea. Although, that map seemed to be meant to be contemporary with the late Thyatian empire. Keep in mind too that Davania is HUGE, it can hold a multitude of civilizations comfortably. ---- Shawn J. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:37:30 -0600 From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: Addakia and Yezchamenid >> So I propose a "Tower of Babel" event in its history, similar to the >> Destruction of Nithia. One Adakkian/Izondian ruler wanted to unite >> the world and build a tower, so the Immortals smote the tower and the >> kingdom/empire (with the Immotal's Arm?). This was a warning to the >> proud mortals, which unfortunately, the Nithians did not learn later >> on (and we know what happened to them!). With the old empire >> fragmented, a new empire emerged from the northern colonies >> (M-Babylon-Persia), which became the present day Yezchamenid. > > I like it, does any Mystaran material say whether the > Nimmurians (aren't they the scorpion-men?) were cursed by someone? > If they were cursed by the Immortals, it ties in perfectly with this > Tower of Babel event. Read about it here: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/nimmur.html Nimmurians were originally the Enduks. The Enduks took the Sohktar (early manscorpians) refugees who were pushed out of their homeland by Nithians colonies in the Savage Barony area of Brun. The patron (I believe it was Ixion) of the Enduks cursed the manscorpions for the deed of betraying the Enduks to burn in sunlight. Atzanteotl tought the manscorpions how to cover themselves with with protective body paints, which allowed them to come to the surface and assume the identity of the Nimmurians. Eric Anondson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:52:20 +0100 From: =?us-ascii?Q?Andres_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Addakia > That's a neat idea. Although, that map seemed to be meant to be > contemporary with the late Thyatian empire. Keep in mind too that Davania > is HUGE, it can hold a multitude of civilizations comfortably. That doesn't have to be a problem. An old nation name can be retained for a very very long time after the original nation has vanished. In RW, we still use the term Iberia to refer to the peninsular area of Spain and Portugal... and the Iberian civilization itself vanished more than 2000 years ago!!! Also, it's possible that a new people which settles in an area assumes the trappings, name and devices of a bygone civilization (like some populace from N Iraq and S Turkey, who style themselves as "Modern Assyrians", as a cultural contrast with the prevalent Islamic culture of the area). So, Addakia could have been retained, both by learned scholars in the times of Thyatis and by some people who occupies the "Ancient Addakian" territory, regardless of them having a genealogical connection with the original Addakian empire. IIRC, the Drachenfels lineage in Glantri styles itself as descendants from the Old Blackmoorians, so, no matter how much knowledge about the pre-cataclysmic nations was lost and forgotten, there's some consciousness of those old lands and empires around... Andres ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:34:03 +0800 From: "Francisco V. Navarro V" Subject: Addakia, Yezchamenid, and Nithia Hail ancient Mystarans! With all this discussion and speculation of the ancient Addakian empire, and consulting the maps, I began to wonder: where did the ancient Nithian empire fit on the ancient Known World map? They must have been somewhere where they could establish Ylaruam and Thothia. Surely, they were not on the Alphatian continent, since the two civilizations existed at the same time. They must have also been in contact with the northeastern areas of Davania, where the Milenian Empire existed, and the two civilizations had their bitter rivalry. And the Nithians may have also come into contact with the Taymorans, now under the Sea of Dread. And if the Addakians were in the northwest of Davania, where does that leave the Nithians? Were they in the Aryptian Basin, a desert region that once had the River Nithia run through it (until it was blasted away by the Immortals?) Or was the area of Nithia completely taken over by other civilizations, with its name and history forgotten, because of the Spell of Oblivion? Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Anondson" To: Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 4:37 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Addakia and Yezchamenid > >> So I propose a "Tower of Babel" event in its history, similar to the > >> Destruction of Nithia. One Adakkian/Izondian ruler wanted to unite > >> the world and build a tower, so the Immortals smote the tower and the > >> kingdom/empire (with the Immotal's Arm?). This was a warning to the > >> proud mortals, which unfortunately, the Nithians did not learn later > >> on (and we know what happened to them!). With the old empire > >> fragmented, a new empire emerged from the northern colonies > >> (M-Babylon-Persia), which became the present day Yezchamenid. > > > > I like it, does any Mystaran material say whether the > > Nimmurians (aren't they the scorpion-men?) were cursed by someone? > > If they were cursed by the Immortals, it ties in perfectly with this > > Tower of Babel event. > > Read about it here: > > http://www.dnd.starflung.com/nimmur.html > > Nimmurians were originally the Enduks. The Enduks took the Sohktar > (early manscorpians) refugees who were pushed out of their homeland by > Nithians colonies in the Savage Barony area of Brun. The patron (I > believe it was Ixion) of the Enduks cursed the manscorpions for the > deed of betraying the Enduks to burn in sunlight. Atzanteotl tought > the manscorpions how to cover themselves with with protective body > paints, which allowed them to come to the surface and assume the > identity of the Nimmurians. > > > Eric Anondson > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 20:45:19 -0400 From: Paul Westermeyer Subject: Re: Isle of Dread/Kopru > > Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:38:44 -0600 >> From: Eric Anondson >> Subject: Re: Isle of Dread/Kopru >> >> > I do have a question. Can anyone tell me if the >> Kopru, the amphibious >> > monsters first described in X2 Isle of Dread, have >> ever been detailed >> > in 2nd edition terms? Or more fully detailed for >> OD&D? >> >> Hey Paul! >> >> The Kopru had been well detailed in the accessory >> PC3 The Sea People, >> by Jim Bambra. It's one of the OD&D Creature >> Crucible line. >> > > >> EricAnondson >> > > I thought I would mention that there is a 2E version > in the Monsterous Compendium (r) Appendix (Mystara) > [TSR 2501, ISBM 1-56076-875-4]. Ah... that's the sort of thing I need then. Thanks! Ummm... anyone with that book willing to send me a scan of the info? I need it pretty quickly and hunting down the out of print source may take awhile. -- "We sleep safely in our beds, only because rough men stand guard in the night, ready to visit violence upon those who would do us harm." H.G. Wells. Paul Westermeyer, westermeyer.3@osu.edu Phd Candidate, History, Ohio State University Instructor, Humanities, Columbus State Community College ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 23:23:51 -0600 From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: Addakia, Yezchamenid, and Nithia > With all this discussion and speculation of the ancient Addakian > empire, and consulting the maps, I began to wonder: where did the > ancient Nithian empire fit on the ancient Known World map? Elves of Alfeim, p. 6, had a map with of Brun. Blots of black show the extent of the Nithian empire circa 1,000 BC. From that map, looks like Ylaruam, mainland Thyatis and the Minrothad isles. Also on the Isle of Dawn a series of unconnected regions, a small blot around Ekto and Trikelios, a small blot about Edairo, a small blot near Deirdren or Dunadale and a small blot in the inner coast of the Gulf of Westrourke. Eric Anondson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:33:52 -0500 From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Addakia, Yezchamenid, and Nithia I always thought that ancient Nithia was right where Ylaruam is now, with the ancient power base being near where the Bead of Oblivion lies (Emirate of Nithia?). The creation of Alfheim helped to cause a drought in Nithia proper (Ylaruam) and turn it into desert, leading to Nithia's destruction (along with numerous other Immortal plots designed to wipe out the empire). They certainly had colonies all over the KW and beyond, though. Somewhere on the Vaults is a map of ancient Nithia. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francisco V. Navarro V" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 7:34 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] Addakia, Yezchamenid, and Nithia > Hail ancient Mystarans! > > With all this discussion and speculation of the ancient Addakian empire, and > consulting the maps, I began to wonder: where did the ancient Nithian empire > fit on the ancient Known World map? > > They must have been somewhere where they could establish Ylaruam and > Thothia. Surely, they were not on the Alphatian continent, since the two > civilizations existed at the same time. They must have also been in contact > with the northeastern areas of Davania, where the Milenian Empire existed, > and the two civilizations had their bitter rivalry. And the Nithians may > have also come into contact with the Taymorans, now under the Sea of Dread. > And if the Addakians were in the northwest of Davania, where does that leave > the Nithians? > > Were they in the Aryptian Basin, a desert region that once had the River > Nithia run through it (until it was blasted away by the Immortals?) Or was > the area of Nithia completely taken over by other civilizations, with its > name and history forgotten, because of the Spell of Oblivion? > > Kit > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric Anondson" > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 4:37 AM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Addakia and Yezchamenid > > > > >> So I propose a "Tower of Babel" event in its history, similar to the > > >> Destruction of Nithia. One Adakkian/Izondian ruler wanted to unite > > >> the world and build a tower, so the Immortals smote the tower and the > > >> kingdom/empire (with the Immotal's Arm?). This was a warning to the > > >> proud mortals, which unfortunately, the Nithians did not learn later > > >> on (and we know what happened to them!). With the old empire > > >> fragmented, a new empire emerged from the northern colonies > > >> (M-Babylon-Persia), which became the present day Yezchamenid. > > > > > > I like it, does any Mystaran material say whether the > > > Nimmurians (aren't they the scorpion-men?) were cursed by someone? > > > If they were cursed by the Immortals, it ties in perfectly with this > > > Tower of Babel event. > > > > Read about it here: > > > > http://www.dnd.starflung.com/nimmur.html > > > > Nimmurians were originally the Enduks. The Enduks took the Sohktar > > (early manscorpians) refugees who were pushed out of their homeland by > > Nithians colonies in the Savage Barony area of Brun. The patron (I > > believe it was Ixion) of the Enduks cursed the manscorpions for the > > deed of betraying the Enduks to burn in sunlight. Atzanteotl tought > > the manscorpions how to cover themselves with with protective body > > paints, which allowed them to come to the surface and assume the > > identity of the Nimmurians. > > > > > > Eric Anondson > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 3 Dec 2002 to 4 Dec 2002 (#2002-313) **************************************************************