Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 7 Dec 2002 to 8 Dec 2002 (#2002-317) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 09/12/2002, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 15 messages totalling 457 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Days of the Week (2) 2. MORE Page missing in ESD 3. The Japanese Vaults (2) 4. Isle of Dread/Kopru 5. Bards in Mystara 6. [jdaly@friend.ly.net: FW: Rejected posting 7. Addakia, Yezchamenid, and Nithia (5) 8. PC3/Kna and MCA/Kna 9. PC3/Kopru ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 17:22:08 +0800 From: "Francisco V. Navarro V" Subject: Re: Days of the Week > Francisco V. Navarro V wrote: > > > Planet: Sun | Moon | Mars | Mercury | Jupiter | Venus | Saturn > > *snip* > > Germanic: (Tiw, Woden/Odin, Thor, Freya = Mars, Mercruy, Jupiter, Venus) > > English: Sunday | Monday | Tuesday | Wednesday | Thursday | Friday | > > Saturday > > The Romans equated Germanic gods with their own gods (imperfectly) thus: > > Tyr = Mars (= Ares) > Odin = Mercury (= Hermes) > Thor = Jupiter (= Zeus) > Freya = Venus (= Aphrodite) > > OT but interesting, I hope. :> Regards. OT response: not entirely imperfect actually. Mars was a god of war, hence Tyr/Tiw. Venus was a goddess of love and fertility, and her equivalent was either Freya or Frig/Frigga, both of whom had aspects of fertility, and definitley represeneted women. Mercury was not just the speedy messenger god, but also worshipped as a god of the mind, the intellect, and mysticism. He was identified with the Egyptian Thoth, and the wise all-seeing Odin. Thunder-wielding Jupiter was identified with thunder-wiedling Thor. Kit Navarro ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 11:56:33 +0100 From: Federico Kaftal Subject: MORE Page missing in ESD FYI, written to svgames again for a greater bug... btw, I also had the same minor problem: I could not download from the link, but it turned out I had to "Save Target As..." rather than just "Open" the link. That was easily solved for me too. Federico _____________ Dear sirs, I have just downloaded another ESD: TSR930ESDPDF.1 (GAZ7 - The Northern Reaches) and after joining it with the split free file, I see that the whole large, full color double-sided map of the lands of Ostland, Vestland and Soderfiord is entirely missing. What's happening? Did you sell us incomplete copies? Note that the Northern Reaches Gazetteer is not at all a rare object: there are shrinkwrapped copies on sale at Amazon. So, why is the big double-sided map missing? I attach my previous mail for your convenience. Regards, Federico Kaftal _________________ Previous message: _________________ Dear sirs, I have just downloaded ESD TSR9272ESD.PDF (The Dymrak Dread) and I notice that there's one page missing: At the end of the booklet there's a dungeon map obviously consisting of eight pages: only pages I-VII are there, the upper right page of the map has not been scanned. Would you please make sure to add the page to the ESD and to send me the missing page by e-mail as well? Thanks for your answer. Federico Kaftal _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 19:02:23 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Days of the Week Su 08 Dec 2002 11:13:05 +0800, Francisco V. Navarro V ha scritto: > > Thyatian: Lunadain | Gromdain | Tserdain | Moldain | Nytdain | Loshdain | > Soladain > > Surely, Lunadain and Soladain are related to the moon (Luna, perhaps a > variant Thyatian name for Matera) and the sun (named Solarios in Thyatian, > whereas Ixion is more Milenian), and perhaps related to the Immortals as > well. What about the rest? Surely not the planets. IMO, at least Nytdain may be an easy guess, Nyt = Nyx. Loshdain might refer to an alternate ID of Zirchev: his chevall proxy in B10 is called "Loshad". Gromdain might be a contraction of "Gorm's Day", an heirloom from Cynidicea. Tserdain and Moldain appear more difficult to explain. No idea for the Alphatians, but, as you said, they came from another world... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 17:47:58 +0100 From: Jacob Skytte Subject: The Japanese Vaults Did you people know that we're being translated to Japanese? A member of = my family was looking for my homepage, when he stumbled upon a Japanese = translation of some of my work (and the work of others on the list). http://www1.ocn.ne.jp/~kbkb/d_and_dindex.htm It says it's being posted with permission from the Vaults, and it is = really cool, you can't help but feel a little honored that someone took = the time to translate it, but on the other hand it's a bit disconcerting = to suddenly find your work translated to a foreign language in a public = place, especially when you can't vouch for the quality of the = translation. What do you people think? Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 19:58:24 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: The Japanese Vaults Su 08 Dec 2002 17:47:58 +0100, Jacob Skytte ha scritto: > > http://www1.ocn.ne.jp/~kbkb/d_and_dindex.htm > > What do you people think? Wow! There's even one of my articles, on the evolution of Rakasta! Well, since it's properly credited, it's ok, and I am quite flattered at being translated (even though it's only five lines ;) ). Bye, GP ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 14:24:20 -0500 From: David Knott Subject: Re: Isle of Dread/Kopru From: "Darth Darknerd" > > I thought I would mention that there is a 2E version > in the Monsterous Compendium (r) Appendix (Mystara) > [TSR 2501, ISBM 1-56076-875-4]. > > I did not notice that the Kopru were in PC3. I think > I have that somewhere under a pile of papers, so I > will have to dig for it. > > Also, as you might notice, I just posted a 3E version, > in case you might try a 3E game. So did WotC, in Monster Manual II. Any interesting differences between your version and theirs? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 14:31:44 -0500 From: David Knott Subject: Re: Bards in Mystara Another 5th level bard is Michel d'Ambreville, son of Guillaume and Janette in "Mark of Amber". ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 14:37:55 -0500 From: David Knott Subject: Re: [jdaly@friend.ly.net: FW: Rejected posting From: "Francesco Defferrari" > Who is this Howard Stern, anyway ? : - ) He is an American DJ heard on radio stations in most of the U.S. He is noted for general lewdness and vulgarity, usually right at the limit of what the FCC (the government body that regulates radio and TV in the U.S.) will tolerate. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 14:54:22 -0500 From: David Knott Subject: Re: Addakia, Yezchamenid, and Nithia From: "Francisco V. Navarro V" > > With all this discussion and speculation of the ancient Addakian empire, and > consulting the maps, I began to wonder: where did the ancient Nithian empire > fit on the ancient Known World map? I was always under the impression that they started out in what is now Ylaruam (ca. 2000 BC) and eventually established colonies all over the world. The migration map in the Hollow World boxed set has them colonizing Thothia around 700 BC but gives no other details. However, various other sources for different regions mention varying degrees of Nithian influence on their histories. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 15:21:40 -0500 From: David Knott Subject: Re: PC3/Kna and MCA/Kna From: "Darth Darknerd" > > Here's the question: Are there any other references in > any material about the kna? Do they have legs or a > big fin? Are there illustrations? The text and illustrations in PC 3 actually contradict each other, as the illustration on page 10 of the Sea Peoples book clearly shows two kna with legs riding a masher. The most reasonable way to interpret the available information is that kna do after all have legs, but those legs are too weak for them to walk on them. Combine that with the fact that they suffocate out of water faster than most other aquatic races (after a mere 2d4 rounds) and you have a race that won't spend very much time out of the water. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 15:24:44 -0500 From: David Knott Subject: Re: PC3/Kopru From: "Darth Darknerd" > I've been browsing PC3 Accessory, The Sea People by > Jim Bambra (TSR9277, ISBN 0-88038-826-9) and it has a > descriptive firsthand account of the Kopru (pp 11-12), > rules for playing seap people with racial reactions > and AC for kopru (p 17), and more kopru specifics (pp > 22-23). > > I just have one question, what languages are used. I > imagine that kopru's speak their own ancient language > and also the common language by the largest undersea > group (a sort of AquaCommon per say). Is there any > mention of this in PC3? I cannot find it. See p. 16 under "Intelligence". The aquatic races of Undersea speak their own racial languages as well as the kna trade language. I am not sure whether the kna racial language would be the same as or different from the kna trade language, so I have no idea how many languages the kna speak. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 23:41:41 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Addakia, Yezchamenid, and Nithia > I was always under the impression that they started out in what > is now Ylaruam (ca. 2000 BC) and eventually established colonies > all over the world. The migration map in the Hollow World boxed > set has them colonizing Thothia around 700 BC but gives no other > details. However, various other sources for different regions > mention varying degrees of Nithian influence on their histories. To put it short, it seems that quite a few of the nations covered in the GAZ series had some substrate of Nithian colonization: GAZ1 Karameikos: explicit in old ruins and crypts (IIRC B6, B10 and the AD&D Karameikos box set) GAZ2 Ylaruam: cradle of Nithia, also seat of the Pearl of Oblivion GAZ3 No Nithian info here, probably they did not like the mountains GAZ4 Ierendi: isn't there something written about Nithian trade outposts in the isles, which would conduct trade with the civilizations of the Serpent Peninsula? GAZ5 No Nithians there either... GAZ6 Nope, these folk don't like big mountain chains GAZ7 There's some reference to Nithians too, but i don't recall the source... Quite natural, it's close to Ylaruam and it's a good exit to the sea... and the colonization of the Isle of Dawn would make a lot of sense if done from the closer Northern Reaches GAZ8 No info given. There was big humanoid activity, which could hamper expansion GAZ9 Weren't there outposts as in Ierendi? GAZ10 Nothing there which Nithians could like GAZ11 No info either, but maybe humanoid activity, cf. GAZ8 above GAZ12 The steppes would offer too much to the Nithians in the way of resources they'd be interested in exploiting GAZ13 Completely out of question!!! no Nithians! GAZ14 There would be no plateau at the time of the birth of Nithia... discouraging. They would need crossing Darokin to colonize here. DotE The Isle of Dawn is clear. As about Thyatian territory, there would have been always one strong human population or another there, especially after the arrival of the three tribes... So, the KW map shows that Nithians tended to expand kinda eastwards and southwards, answering to topographical (avoid big mountain chains) and population (avoid conflict with humanoids) reasons. On the other hand, they tried to secure quite a few coastal and island outposts (Karameikos, NR, Ierendi, IoD), probably in order to guarantee a good level of trade power, as opposed to a purely militaristic conquest approach (that's really cool, it's much like RW Egypt). What is quite puzzling is the Nithian influence in the SC (they suffered the Spell of Oblivion there, and the Red Curse seems to be somewhat connected to the Nithian curse), and that Nithia could develop important colonies so far away from their mother land. Would they cross westwards or is it more likely that the Nithians in the SC come from exploratory naval missions, which could even have travelled eastwards, from the IoD to the Arm of the Immortals? Andr'es ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 07:38:18 +0800 From: "Francisco V. Navarro V" Subject: Re: Addakia, Yezchamenid, and Nithia > GAZ4 Ierendi: isn't there something written about Nithian trade outposts in > the isles, which would conduct trade with the civilizations of the Serpent > Peninsula? To be exact, it's White Island! The island of albino creatures that actually hold a sect of the Nithina Immortal Osiris, which keeps away some secret evil (related to the Destruction of Nithia, it is suggested). Probably this outpost was distant enough and powerful enough to have some vague memory of the destruction. Kit ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 19:19:07 -0500 From: David Knott Subject: Re: Addakia, Yezchamenid, and Nithia From: "Andrés Piquer Otero" > What is quite puzzling is the Nithian influence in > the SC (they suffered the Spell of Oblivion there, and the Red Curse seems > to be somewhat connected to the Nithian curse), and that Nithia could > develop important colonies so far away from their mother land. Would they > cross westwards or is it more likely that the Nithians in the SC come from > exploratory naval missions, which could even have travelled eastwards, from > the IoD to the Arm of the Immortals? The simplest explanation would be that they went west -- it is a shorter distance to the Savage Coast westward from Karameikos or Ierendi (places that the Nithians are known to have reached) than eastward from the Isle of Dawn. According to the Outer World Planetary Map in the Hollow World boxed set, the distance from the easternmost part of the isle of dawn eastward to the Arm of the Immortals is about 2/3 of the way around the world. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 22:52:03 -0600 From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: Addakia, Yezchamenid, and Nithia > GAZ4 Ierendi: isn't there something written about Nithian trade > outposts in the isles, which would conduct trade with the > civilizations of the Serpent Peninsula? > GAZ9 Weren't there outposts as in Ierendi? Both of these were colonies of Nithian traders at some point. Indeed, the namesake of the Minrothad Guilds, Minroth, was a Nithian. Has anyone found where or if the Nithians traded with the Serpent Peninsula? > What is quite puzzling is the Nithian influence in the SC (they > suffered the Spell of Oblivion there, and the Red Curse seems to be > somewhat connected to the Nithian curse), and that Nithia could > develop important colonies so far away from their mother land. Would > they cross westwards or is it more likely that the Nithians in the SC > come from exploratory naval missions, which could even have travelled > eastwards, from the IoD to the Arm of the Immortals? If there were trading going on between Nithia, its island colonies, and the Serpent Peninsula peoples, it is not too difficult to imagine the Nithians taking the time to round the tip of the peninsula and going up to the Gulf of Hule. Eric Anondson ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 7 Dec 2002 to 8 Dec 2002 (#2002-317) **************************************************************