Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 10 Dec 2002 to 11 Dec 2002 (#2002-320) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 12/12/2002, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 20 messages totalling 558 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Pool: The Old Rules & Immortals (11) 2. Just to say hello! 3. Atruaghin and Yazi similarities (6) 4. New Pool: Nationalities 5. Freeport question ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 07:23:36 -0200 From: JJJ Subject: Pool: The Old Rules & Immortals Comrades, i've played all editions, and each has its vants. & desavants., THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE. But, as in Dragonlance, Mystara sounded soooo like OD&D, and from AD&D rules on a believed they never had a grip on the thing. The question is: How many of you still use OD&D (Rules Cyclopedia or less) in your Mystaran campaigns? And has anyone played an extensevely immortals campaign? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 11:52:54 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: Re: Just to say hello! JJJ wrote: "Hi people, i am new to the list and a old Mystara fan (since the times when the KW maps was just a blank page on the Expert Set!)" I'd also like to welcome you to the list. Always good to have more of us "old timers" with us. One suggestion: if you wish to know about the latest threads, the archive is at: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/mystara-l.html (Well, perhaps you knew this already...) Just one word of warning, though. There are a few verocious nosferatus and vampires on the list, as the venerable JK Wolf's message implied: Quote: ("Hi JJJ welcome to the list, nice to see new blood!" :) JK Wolf) All in good fun, Ville ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 08:13:29 -0500 From: Castille Baromon de Preto Subject: Re: Pool: The Old Rules & Immortals > > From: JJJ > > The question is: > > How many of you still use OD&D (Rules Cyclopedia or less) in your Mystaran > campaigns? And has anyone played an extensevely immortals campaign? > I use the OD&D rules, they are what I grew up with. I also adapt to the changing times, and have learned the newer rules. I also learn other games to make better rules ;) Now I use the 3rd ed, as that is what my players request. I tried running an all Immortal campaign, once. It would have been alot better if my players were not 16 at the time. New Poll: There seems to be a strong following on the list for Italy, what are the other countries or states are being represented, and how long has everyone been playing? I represent Florida, and have been playing since Chainmail. I still have my Vampire board game from TSR (that will give my age out in a hurry). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 14:56:06 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Pool: The Old Rules & Immortals Castille Baromon de Preto wrote: > > > I use the OD&D rules, they are what I grew up with. I also adapt to the changing times, and have learned the newer rules. I use AD&D2e, though I'm not very strict on rules, except in character construction. I would still use OD&D if I were to play a humanoid or monster PC campaign, though. > I tried running an all Immortal campaign, once. It would have been alot better if my players were not 16 at the time. Never liked high level campaigns too much. Only one character from my very first campaign (more that 10 years ago) reached Immortality. > New Poll: There seems to be a strong following on the list for Italy, what are the other countries or states are being represented, and how long has everyone been playing? I've been playing since, what, 1988 or 1989. Of course, I'm from Italy. BTW, I think most Italian gamers around my age started playing with the red box, which, IIRC, was the first roleplaying game to be translated into Italian (1985). -- Giampaolo Agosta http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 09:31:40 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Pool: The Old Rules & Immortals > How many of you still use OD&D (Rules Cyclopedia or less) in your Mystaran > campaigns? And has anyone played an extensevely immortals campaign? I still use the OD&D system (the Rules Cyclopedia), plus add-ons from Dragon magazine and from this List. I started playing OD&D around 1984 or so, tried AD&D 2E in the early 90s (didn't like it that much), but have run an OD&D Mystara campaign fairly continuously since 1995. I have never played an Immortals campaign, but would love to try it out, since I have all the Immortals-level modules now. Personally, I've never gone beyond level 7. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 08:37:29 -0600 From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: Atruaghin and Yazi similarities >> Anyone have one for how the Yazi gnolls and goblins of the Savage >> Coast are nearly identical to the Horse and Bear Atruaghin clans? >> > Native Americans never scalped anyone, until the French showed them > how. To get around this politically incorrect behavior, the Horse and > Bear clans learned from their humanoid masters before they moved on in > search of the Blue Knife. What does scalping have to do with my question again? What do the French have to do with Mystara, besides the Clark Aston Smith angle? Eric Anondson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 11:02:49 -0500 From: Castille Baromon de Preto Subject: Re: Atruaghin and Yazi similarities > > From: Eric Anondson > > What does scalping have to do with my question again? What do the > French have to do with Mystara, besides the Clark Aston Smith angle? > Sorry, in the Gaz it explains that the Bear and Horse clans learned from their humanoid captors while they were enslaved. One point they wanted to bring out was that the Atruaghin learned scalping from the goblins, and that it was not a trait they learned and practiced on their own. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:05:08 +0100 From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: Re: Pool: The Old Rules & Immortals ----- Original Message ----- From: "Castille Baromon de Preto" > > From: JJJ > > How many of you still use OD&D (Rules Cyclopedia or less) in your Mystaran > > campaigns? And has anyone played an extensevely immortals campaign? I begin playing in 1991 with OD&D rules in Mystara, and the original campaign keep going... my pc are 33° lvl now... A year ago we started a 3ed campaign with 1° lvl pc (3° lvl now), always in Mystara. We alternate the two campaign now. I play AD&D only since 1999, but in the Forgotten Realms, a campaign that we play only one time every one/two months. Nowadays some of the OD&D pc are beginning their ascension to immortality, but we are still very far to play immortals campaign.... Anyway, OD&D is always the best : - ) > New Poll: There seems to be a strong following on the list for Italy, what are the other countries or states are being represented, and how long has everyone been playing? I'm from Italy too, city of Genua. bye Francesco ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:12:01 +0100 From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: Re: Atruaghin and Yazi similarities ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Anondson" > Anyone have one for how the Yazi gnolls and goblins of the Savage Coast > are nearly identical to the Horse and Bear Atruaghin clans? IMO native american-like culture originated among humanoids of the Yazak in contact with the oltecs to the south... that culture was then brought to azcan atruaghin when the humanoids conquered their nation, and the atruaghin adopted it, IMO, because was yet very similar to their original azcan culture...(but the tiger/viper clan remained loyal to the original azcan culture) In the present of Mystara that culture is not only among humanoids of the savage coast but among atruaghin and red orcs of Thar too, but probably there are a lot of local differences... bye Francesco ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:25:46 +0100 From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: Re: Atruaghin and Yazi similarities ----- Original Message ----- From: "Castille Baromon de Preto" > > From: Eric Anondson > > What does scalping have to do with my question again? What do the > > French have to do with Mystara, besides the Clark Aston Smith angle? > > > Sorry, in the Gaz it explains that the Bear and Horse clans learned from their humanoid captors while they were enslaved. One point they wanted to bring out was that the Atruaghin learned scalping from the goblins, and that it was not a trait they learned and practiced on their own. AFAIK as a student of native american history and culture (i'm finishing my thesis about William Penn and the Delaware indians) the scalping question is quite debated among historians, but the prevalent opinion is that native american used scalping in war with religious significance even before contact with europeans.. (only scalps of great warriors were taken as a sign of respect for the enemy, and, mind, only after the death of the victim). Spanish,, French and English then begin to scalp indians for collecting rewards (many colonial governors, as in Florida, New Mexico, Quebec, Massachusetts, Virginia and so on offered money for indian scalps in some point of american history...) and after the indians too did the same collecting english scalps and selling them to french governor in the french-indian war, as requested by the french, and collecting american scalps and selling them to the english governor in the american revolution, as requested by the english... The big difference (and a very big difference in the native americans mindset, but not so big for the european mindset) was that europeans introduced scalping for money, and the indians then scalped for money only the whites who had did the same to them before.... bye Francesco ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 14:54:18 -0200 From: JJJ Subject: New Pool: Nationalities Castille Baromon de Preto wrote: > New Poll: There seems to be a strong following on the list for Italy, what are the other countries or states are being represented, and how long has everyone been playing? > I represent Florida, and have been playing since Chainmail. I still have my Vampire board game from TSR (that will give my age out in a hurry). I am from Brasil! I've been playing since the red box, but love the truly old chainmail systems. Personally i did not like 3rd ed., its too videogame like for me.... OD&D is my favorite, followed closely by 1st ed. AD&D (Yes, the Elves get only around level 8 magic-users, and a like it!). My oldest game hails form 1994, but we play it now on a "seasonal" level: one game in winter, another in fall.... Everyone is about 32-36 level, and soon will be trying for immortality! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 08:05:38 +1300 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Atruaghin and Yazi similarities > IMO native american-like culture originated among humanoids of the Yazak > in contact with the oltecs to the south... that culture was then brought > to azcan atruaghin when the humanoids conquered their nation, and the > atruaghin adopted it, IMO, because was yet very similar to their original > azcan culture...(but the tiger/viper clan remained loyal to the original > azcan culture) It is worth noting that the societies on the isle of dread and in the hinterlands use animal based clans/tribes (and have totems too I think) , demonstrating potential similarities in the oltec-azcan societies and the atruaghin society which from the sounds of it was subsequently corrupted by goblinoid influences. It could have been a two way exchange of culture as well, as there is no reason the humanoids would not have picked up some of the atruaghin traits. When in Thyatis, do as the Thyatians do after all. Chris. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 08:16:36 +1300 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Pool: The Old Rules & Immortals > How many of you still use OD&D (Rules Cyclopedia or less) in your > Mystaran campaigns? me..... but the emphasis is as much on politics and world happenings as it is on rules, so a 'rules light' system allows me to have more control off the game, when I get to play that is (which isn't that often). 3e looks to have some nice stuff in it tho. > And has anyone played an extensevely immortals campaign? not extensively, and IMO not convincingly. but it was mostly we we too young at the time. Immortality makes a great goal, and Imortals are great plot drivers but are a tad difficult to play IMO. Chris. P.S. New Zealand is where I'm from for those that don't know. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 18:24:42 -0200 From: JJJ Subject: Re: Atruaghin and Yazi similarities > > What does scalping have to do with my question again? What do the > > French have to do with Mystara, besides the Clark Aston Smith angle? Apart from all that scalping things... Yazi gnolls live in a territory that was in the past invaded by former humanoids, and they were a lot like the same Atruaghin Clans you refer (remeber Wogar and his wolf-riders). Its was a fortunate coincidence, as i am setting my actual campaign on Hule, and have passed by that info while researching about Hosadus, The Master. As a short bibliografy for help seek PWA II, GAZ 10 (see the history chapter and especiallu about the Red Orcs) and Champions of Mystara. Aside that, the Oltec/Nithian discussion has a lot to do with this one, as Gnolls are a truly almost human-like adaptable race, being of a lot of different cultures in Mystara (Nithianist hutaakans, Yazi clans, Barbarian Gnolls from the Broken Lands, and the Nomadic Grakhallians!) Helpful? Anything wrong? Are you going to take my scalp?????? :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 16:03:08 -0600 From: Stone Marshall Subject: Re: Pool: The Old Rules & Immortals
>How many of you still use OD&D (Rules Cyclopedia or less) in your Mystaran
>campaigns? And has anyone played an extensevely immortals campaign?
 
I'm 29 and also have played all the editions. I still prefer the Rules Cyclopedia. My son and I play every other weekend. His fighter is now 7th level.
Years ago...back around 1989 I think...I had an Immortal campaign. The biggest problem with Immortals is the power level. We often grew bored with level 30+ pc's. The excitement for me is from 5th to 25th level. Just my opinion.
 
                                                             Multizar the Mage
 

Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 23:48:51 +0100 From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Pool: The Old Rules & Immortals > > The question is: > > > > How many of you still use OD&D (Rules Cyclopedia or less) in your = Mystaran > > campaigns? I've never used anything else for Mystara. I use a lot of GAZ options = though. > > And has anyone played an extensevely immortals campaign? Not for _that_ long. Writing Immortal level adventures is hard, hard = work. > New Poll: There seems to be a strong following on the list for Italy, = what are the other countries or states are being represented, and how = long has everyone been playing? I started in Greenland back in 1985 (Red Box), now living in Denmark. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 14:55:28 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: Freeport question You actually have to ask? Drac would SO be the first one to pack his bags and run for the hills. And he wouldn't stop to look for an easy escape route - I'm quite sure he already has an easy (for him) contingency plan in place for just such an occasion. Jenni -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield User Experience PM - Microsoft Content Management Server Designing to Requirements and Walking on Water is EASY. . . . . . So long as both are Frozen. -- > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Kelly [mailto:joe_kelly@DAVIS.CA] > Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 8:29 AM > Subject: Freeport question > > This question is for those of you who have played Freeport. > > What would Drac do if Freeport were to be invaded. Would he become the > fearless leader? or would he be the first to start packing his bags > looking for the easiest escape route? Any help would be appreciated. > > JK Wolf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:45:44 -0600 From: Stone Marshall Subject: Re: Pool: The Old Rules & Immortals
> > New Poll: There seems to be a strong following on the list for Italy, what are the other countries or states are being represented, and how long has everyone been playing?
>
I represent the country of Texas.    Just kidding, but my state is bigger than a lot of countries out there in the world. I started playing in 1986. My mom got me the red box for my 13th birthday. I had played Star Frontiers but was hooked in fantasy with the basic set.
 
 
                                Multizar the Mage

the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:05:56 +1100 From: "Murphy, Jason" Subject: Re: Pool: The Old Rules & Immortals I have never used any rules other than OD&D for mystara, although i am going to have to bend to my players wishes and convert to 3rd ed for the next campaign. I have played all the other variations but only in other campaign worlds. It may only be soppy sentiment but i still feel OD&D is the best variant, however having played a fair bit of 3rd ed i feel its flexible enough to pull off the mystara conversion quite well. Have been playing since i was 12 in 1983. Started with the pink box basic set, and am in the process of introducing my own 12yo son to the game. Located in Perth, Western Australia. Cheers Jason This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the intended recipient(s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential information and/or be subject to legal privilege. It should not be copied, disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party. If you are not an intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and any attachment and all copies and inform the sender. Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 23:53:36 -0500 From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Pool: The Old Rules & Immortals > > How many of you still use OD&D (Rules Cyclopedia or less) in your Mystaran > > campaigns? And has anyone played an extensevely immortals campaign? I use OD&D, but with house rules, and some stuff from AD&D. I haven't done an Immortals campaign - yet. My original campaign started in 1984, and the 3 main PCs are now L36 rulers in Norwold. All 3 are interested in Immortality, and some have begun their quests. Slowly, but surely, they will make progress. Most of their time is taken up with dominion business and the politics of ruling, but there are occassional situations which still require their (considerable) skills. A campaign of 2nd generation PCs in NW was started in 1995, but didn't get going fully until 1997. Those PCs are now L8. Some may play roles in the higher level PCs Immortal Quests as successors in Dynast or Epic Hero paths. In fact, the reason I started the NextGen was to provide a living backdrop for the high level PCs Quests for Immortality. My version of WotI has been taking place over the span of this campaign, with the current game year equiv. to the Fall of AC 1007. I've been meaning to post installments of this campaign summary, but I never can find the time. Another group of PCs entered the HW (while investigating Aegos). That campaign started in 1994, with PCs that had been associates of the high level guys. The lead PC left the game (MIA during a climactic battle with the HKs in Milenia), and another was killed, leaving only a hin (Att. Rk. H) plus a pair of native HW PCs he met on his travels. They are currently in Azca, trying to find a way back to the SW (our 1st game in a year is scheduled for this Sunday!). I am planning to have all 3 groups meet in a climactic mega-adventure. But as that draws nearer, I have less and less time to make it happen. I have an outline of the campaign leading up to it, but very few details. Hopefully, I can make enough progress to have a game early in 2003. Oh yeah, I'm an American from Boston, Mass. Dan ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 10 Dec 2002 to 11 Dec 2002 (#2002-320) ****************************************************************