Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 13 Dec 2002 to 14 Dec 2002 (#2002-323) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 15/12/2002, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 17 messages totalling 696 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Water/Earth Alphatians? 2. Just to say hello! 3. Pool: The Old Rules & Immortals (3) 4. Weapon Mastery Revisited (2) 5. Half-dwarves (Was Gnolls & Hutaakans, intermarriage) 6. Gnolls & Hutaakans, intermarriage (2) 7. Biology Lessons for Druids and DMs (Symbiosis) 8. Atruaghin and Yazi similarities 9. Nithian Thoughts 10. Drums of Panic? 11. Where to get D&D3E font? (2) 12. Attracting Players to Mystara ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 11:44:19 +0100 From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: Re: Water/Earth Alphatians? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Giampaolo Agosta" > Francisco V. Navarro V wrote: > Actually, little is known about the history of the Secret Craft of Earth Elementalism... I think Harri had some ideas on >an extraplanar origin--probably dating back to Francesco di Malapietra. > However, it is clear that a tendency, perhaps not acknowledged or formalized, towards Earth Elementalism emerged >during the early years of the Alphatian occupation: while at first Water Elementalism had been developed to face the >Fire Magics of the Flaems, Thyatian wizards developed Earth magic to face the new threat brought by the Alphatians. Don't forget Citadel, the capital of Bettelyn in Alphatia, IMO a great achievement of alphatian earth elementalism... And Aquas, builded probably by water elementalism. IMC besides, I always thought that the alphatian wizards who helped the founding of modern Minrothad were water elementalist, and alphatian elementalist teached air, water and earth magic to Glantrians and Thyatians... So I think water and earth elementalist, even if a minority faction in alphatian history, were and are always present... for more informations see my history of the old alphatian homeworld in the vault.. http://dnd.starflung.com/oldalph.html every elemental school was linked to a particular race, but earth and water followers were defeated in the past by true alphatians (air followers) and remained a minority in the empire ever since... When the alphatian homeworld were destroyed and the followers of air came to Mystara, very few followers of earth and water came with them. Neverthless, water and earth magic were not forgotten, and the two schools rebuilded themselves a little in the following centuries, and created Citadel and Aquas... bye Francesco ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 05:17:29 -0800 From: "Ohad Shaham (Morphail)" Subject: Re: Just to say hello! All lies! There are no creatures of darkness active on the list. We have eradicated these beings eons ago. I welcome you to the list and suggest you will come to my tower and visit my library. You have much catching up to do. Morphail G-W (also known as Ohad Shaham) Ville_V_Lähde wrote:Just one word of warning, though. There are a few verocious nosferatus and vampires on the list, as the venerable JK Wolf's message implied: --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 05:32:15 -0800 From: "Ohad Shaham (Morphail)" Subject: Re: Pool: The Old Rules & Immortals > > How many of you still use OD&D (Rules Cyclopedia or less) in your Mystaran > > campaigns? Started playing OD&D in 1989 with the red box. Played throughout the 90's but now I only dabble in actual play. I think the 3rd edition is a good development as it combines positive aspects from OD&D (simplicity), AD&D (diversity) and other gaming systems (skill & feat system). It is not perfect but I like the combination between a classs system and a feat system. I didn't like the use of prestige classes, though and the inclination of world specific details in the rulebook (gods from greyhawk mainly). > > And has anyone played an extensevely immortals campaign? Dpn;t like the isea of playing immortal's in a fantasy setting. There are other games out there that make for better settings for playing an angel, devil and so on. > New Poll: There seems to be a strong following on the list for Italy, what are the other countries or states are being represented, and how long has everyone been playing? Italy is indeed the home for numerous and productive people on the list. I am from Jerusalem, Israel. Morphail (Ohad Shaham) --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 15:58:23 -0000 From: Phillip Jones Subject: Re: Weapon Mastery Revisited Interesting system, I might have to try it. Currently I am running the standard WM system but use the following home rules: 1. Recatergorized creatures into 6 size catergories - Tiny (under 3'), Small (3'-5'), Medium (5'-7'), Large (7'-10'), Huge (10'-15'), Giant (15'+) and have said that you may only deflect blows of creatures 1 size catergory higher or lower than that characters size. Creatures larger that that will have blows too powerful to deflect, and creatures smaller than that will be to small and nimble to deflect properly. 2. You cannot deflect a creatures bite (except with a shield mastery - something else I've done and will post if anyones interested :D) or swarm attacks. 3. A character may wield 2 weapons but that character has to seek out a trainer and be trained in that particular weapon in off hand weapon use (I do not use the -1 WM level in off hand rule). So if a character wanted to wield say two shortswords, he would have to not only learn the weapon masteries for shortsword but also for left handed (all off hand weapons start as unskilled, even for demi humans). The character still suffers the -4 penalty for off hand attacks (unless he his using a weapon designed for use in the off hand like a bladed shield etc). In addition, the character only gains the benefit to AC or number of deflects of his highest weapon mastery level, not for both weapons. E.G.. a twin shortsword wielding warrior has an expert level in his right hand shortsword, and a skilled level in his left hand sword sword. He can still only deflect 2 attacks, and would gain the -2 bonus to AC vs 2 attacks with hand held weapons. He would however get the skilled damage with his left hand weapon. If he was just using his left handed weapon he would have the normal bonuses for his skilled level in the weapon. 4. When it comes to humanoid opponents, I believe whats good for the goose is good for the gander. In other words, they might wade through the common flunkies with little regard, but when they come across their bosses, expect them to have weapon masteries too. I totally disagree with the monsters using weapon masteries chart in the RC that limits them by intelligence. Instead I run them up using GAZ 10 and give them weapon masteries as if they were demi-human (I ignore the weapon mastery general skill in GAZ 10). 5. When it comes to human opponents, they will have weapon masteries if they are of the level to attain them. Characters would, so I can't see why npcs wouldn't if they had the level. This goes hand in hand with the limitations I have on finding weapon masters to train in these weapon masteries in the first place, which is: 1. Characters can only train in towns or cities generally. A specific village may be included IF the character knows there is a weapon master of sufficiant skill there and he has time to train the character (see below). 2. A trainer doesn't automatically have a space for the character in his training class. To find out if the character is able to locate a trainer with a space in his class, the DM rolls d100 and consults the following table. 01-05 - The character has found a Grand Master available to train him. 06-20 - The character has found a Master available to train him. 21-50 - The character has found an Expert available to train him. 51-70 - The character has found a Skilled trainer available to train him. 71-90 - The character has found someone with Basic knowledge to train him. 91-00 - The character has found no trainers available. If the trainer is of a lower level than the character needs then treat the result as no trainers available. Each search for a trainer is considered to take a week of the characters time. 3. A character may only make 3 attempts to train a particular weapon. If the character has failed all 3 attempts to train in a weapon, it is considered "beyond his grasp" and cannot try to train any more in that weapon until he has gained another level of experience. ----- Original Message ----- From: "JJJ" To: Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 3:36 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] Weapon Mastery Revisited > Good Mystarans, > > Now that i know most of you still follow the good-old-times rules, i will > pose an intriguing question: WEAPON MASTERY! > It has always been said that this rule totally unbalances the game. I agree > fully. D&D and its monsters were created without the WM rules from the > Master Set in mind, so everything became a great mess. > > Many players truly love WM, thinking of it as the only weapon system that > truly reflected something about trainnig in ALL editions, not to say being a > lot of fun for players! (i for myself like 1st ed AD&D rules on weapons, > more like Chainmail...) > > After so much gaming, i recently developed a house rule that is being quite > good, letting players have their damned WM and the challenge of monster > being still what it was in Boxes past (expert, companion, etc...) > > That is what i make: all monsters, but PC classes, were given an "Monster > Mastery", which functions like this: > > Rank HD AC Absorb/Weapon Extra > SK 3 - 1 hp - > EX 6 -1 2 hp - > MS 9 -1 4 hp deflect(1) > GM 12 -2 8 hp deflect (2) > > Any monster of the listed HD or higher gains that advantages: a bonus to AC, > an hp absorption for weapons ONLY (not magic) with a minimum of 1 point of > damage, and Deflect ability. > > In my game deflects are handled differently, like this: If you have been > beaten by a natural roll of 13, you must roll highr than 13 to deflect, NO > saving throw thing.... > > Also, WM "to hit" bonuses were cancelled and became this: > > Rank Primary Secundary All (for wpns with P=A) > BS - - - > SK - - +1 > EX +1 - +2 > MS +1 - +2 > GM +2 +1 +3 > > > The rationality is to mantain the AC vs. Thac0 game balance usual, with > monster who were supposed to be of a higher level of danger having an bonus > to AC that cancels the bonus to Thac0 (as you can calculate from the first > table), except for P=A weapons which have a slight advantage (as they are > supposed to). > > The hp wpn/absorption handles the increasing damage of the players in > relaiton to the expected danger of creatures, thus making a 12HD dragon > TRULY dangerous for characters of low level, but who have EX mastery and do > 2d8 dmg! I repeat that this hp/abosrb does not apply to magic, as it is > balanced for the game. A good example is the Striking spell. Even if first > level fighter, str 14, hits with a dagger (and a 20 roll....) and old red > dragon he would do damage like that: > [1d4+1(str)] (check absorption, in this example it is always 1hp damage, as > the dragon absorbs 8hp/weapon] > +1d6 strinking spell (full damage inflicted on the dragon, for it is > magic!!!) > > In the case of goblinoids and other weapon using monsters i MANTAINED all > monter mastery and gave weapon mastery to some (like Bugbears being SK in > mace). These cases are better handled on a case by case basis. > > PCs and NPCs with traditional classes (fighters, clerics, elves, etc...) DO > NOT have any of the monster mastery effects. This makes battles a lot more > dangerous, but as both parties have the same abilities, i believe its good > as it is. "Do you players want WM? So be ready for its effects, humph....." > :) > > Anyway, i am througly playtesting it since with my current campaign. My > players are around 8-9th level, and the new rule is doing very well!!! > > As a last piece of advice, i do not permit two-weapon fighting, except for > the shield-wpns. the -4 penalty is to little, and to put a higher one > wouldn't suffice for increased WM damage. > > That's it. Comments??? > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 10:51:37 -0500 From: David Knott Subject: Half-dwarves (Was Gnolls & Hutaakans, intermarriage) From: "Dustin Clingman" > The real question is what about half-dwarves?!? I think the closest that Mystara came to having a half-dwarf was the marriage of a dwarf and an elf in the Thunder Rift setting. The wife became pregnant, but they were both killed before she gave birth. It would have been interesting to see how her little "dwelf" would have turned out. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 11:01:43 -0500 From: David Knott Subject: Re: Gnolls & Hutaakans, intermarriage From: "Giampaolo Agosta" > > The elves of Mystara are different enough from AD&D elves that we > may assume an interbreeding is actually possible, though probably > disgusting for both parties. Actually, it is probably not that bad for them considering that the most likely form of elf/orc mating would be between a normal orc and a deformed shadow elf who was found and raised by orcs. The "elf" in this case would probably find the normal orc reasonably attractive, if perhaps a bit on the dim side. The normal orc would figure that he/she got the class "nerd" and would probably resist that relationship until he/she realized, "Hey! That nerd can scare and blast folks that I can't reach. Together we take over tribe!" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 11:05:41 -0500 From: David Knott Subject: Re: Gnolls & Hutaakans, intermarriage From: "Giampaolo Agosta" > > > Moreover, although no one asked me about this topic, > > I think we could say the same about gnomes/dwarves, > > Yes, there is at least on dwarf who has gnomish blood in Mystara. Actually, that one is an unconfirmed rumor in Gaz 6. The rumor could be true, but Gaz 6 actually seems to lean slightly the other way in regard to the NPC in question. Still, I would see no theoretical objection to a dwarf/gnome hybrid in Mystara. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 11:18:38 -0500 From: David Knott Subject: Re: Biology Lessons for Druids and DMs (Symbiosis) From: "Francisco V. Navarro V" > > I can imagine what bio-eco disasters there are in Glantri post-WotI. Never > mind the usual ravages of war (i.e. mass destruction, dead bodies, plague, > and magical pollution.). With all the monsters summoned by the Alphatian > wizards, there would hardly be anything left of "natural flora and fauna" in > the Highlands. A lot would depend on whether the monsters in question were summoned or teleported into Glantri. If they were summoned, then they would run around causing havoc until they disappeared when the spell expired -- in which case there would be a lot of humans and/or elves killed but little damage to the wildlife or ecology. If the monsters were teleported into Glantri, there would be no magical limitation to remove them from the scene, and thus those monsters not killed by the Glantrians could have escaped into the wilderness and begun wreaking have there -- especially if enough monsters of the same kind escaped to have a viable breeding community. So -- does anyone have any evidence one way or the other as to the extent the Alphatians may have used each method for attacking Glantrians with monsters during WotI? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 11:28:28 -0500 From: David Knott Subject: Re: Atruaghin and Yazi similarities From: "Christopher M Cherrington" > > > Native Americans never scalped anyone, until the French showed them how. To > get around this politically incorrect behavior, the Horse and Bear clans > learned from their humanoid masters before they moved on in search of the > Blue Knife. That's funny -- I don't recall reading much about scalpings in Europe. France had plenty of enemies who would have played that practice up for propaganda purposes if the French had been scalping their enemies back home. Another problem is that Europeans would have picked some other method of getting their Indian allies to kill their foes than paying them for scalps if there had not been a cultural basis on the Indian side for it. After all -- if you were the Frenchman in charge of paying for scalps, how in the world would you be able to tell that the scalps being brought to you were indeed English and not French? Still -- as others stated, the Europeans did introduce the ideas of dealing commercially in scalps taken from slain foes. Does anyone see any parallel to that aspect of scalping among the Atruaghins or goblinoids? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 11:49:29 -0500 From: David Knott Subject: Re: Weapon Mastery Revisited From: "JJJ" > > That is what i make: all monsters, but PC classes, were given an "Monster > Mastery", which functions like this: > > Rank HD AC Absorb/Weapon Extra > SK 3 - 1 hp - > EX 6 -1 2 hp - > MS 9 -1 4 hp deflect(1) > GM 12 -2 8 hp deflect (2) > > Any monster of the listed HD or higher gains that advantages: a bonus to AC, > an hp absorption for weapons ONLY (not magic) with a minimum of 1 point of > damage, and Deflect ability. I see the above as something that could use further refinement. After all, the D&D RC does have the concept of weapon mastery levels for unarmed attacks. For boxing, the special effects are stuns and knockouts -- but deflection or the like would seem to work for most slashing and biting attacks. You might give most monsters the indicated level of "mastery" with their primary unarmed attack and lesser levels with secondary attacks. Instead of having higher monster levels absorb/ignore damage (a new feature that I have a few misgivings about -- it is a bit too close to the problematical armor value system in DotE), you might want to increase the damage that they inflict at each mastery level. That would speed things up a bit, since you would in general balance out the extra damage that the characters are inflicting with the extra damage that the monsters are inflicting. And an AC bonus at higher mastery levels would not be too out of line either, given the parallels in the real weapon mastery tables. > In my game deflects are handled differently, like this: If you have been > beaten by a natural roll of 13, you must roll highr than 13 to deflect, NO > saving throw thing.... It is too bad that you can't use the open-ended high-is-better rolls from 3E here. In that case, the attacker simply makes his attack roll, then the defender makes his deflection roll, and blocks the hit only if his adjusted roll is higher. That method would make it easy to shrug off attacks from low level foes but (especially if the bonus to the deflect roll does not quite keep up with expected bonuses to the attack roll) would give a character little chance of deflecting blows from higher level foes. > Also, WM "to hit" bonuses were cancelled and became this: > > Rank Primary Secundary All (for wpns with P=A) > BS - - - > SK - - +1 > EX +1 - +2 > MS +1 - +2 > GM +2 +1 +3 > > > The rationality is to mantain the AC vs. Thac0 game balance usual, with > monster who were supposed to be of a higher level of danger having an bonus > to AC that cancels the bonus to Thac0 (as you can calculate from the first > table), except for P=A weapons which have a slight advantage (as they are > supposed to). Actually, it is only the P=M case that would affect monsters in combat, as P=H means that the character is most effective against armed foes. P=A means no difference, so against monsters it would be the same as P=M. So -- is there any reason not to give monsters with mastery of their natural attacks the same bonuses to hit? > In the case of goblinoids and other weapon using monsters i MANTAINED all > monter mastery and gave weapon mastery to some (like Bugbears being SK in > mace). These cases are better handled on a case by case basis. Why not just give such creatures normal weapon mastery? They should not need "monster mastery" unless they are attacking with both weapons and unarmed attacks at the same time. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 11:53:42 -0500 From: David Knott Subject: Re: Nithian Thoughts From: "Castille Baromon de Preto" > There seems to be alot of information about Nithia out there, and at > times too much for players. Another thought: The Immortals wiped out all memory of the Nithians, but they could not prevent people from rediscovering them later. However -- Mystarans forgot a lot more than the Nithians, whether by conscious Immortal design or their own careless record keeping. But the Nithians would be the most conspicuous "hole" in their memories. Thus, whenever Mystarans dig up artifacts from an unknown civilization, they are likely to guess, "Aha! These things must be Nithian!" It makes me wonder whether some of the canonical references to Nithians might actually refer to other lost civilizations? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 12:01:39 -0500 From: David Knott Subject: Re: Drums of Panic? From: "Ville V Lähde" > The Cyclopedia makes no mention how often the Drums of Panic can be used. > Has anyone given the iten to their players, and have you made any house > rules on that? 1/day? 3/day? Maybe once per battle or encounter? I base that idea on the theory that if you aren't scared off when somebody first starts beating the drums, you would be annoyed rather than scared if they beat them again. > One of my PCs just assassinated Bargle the Infamous and gained his Drums. > > If I remember correctly, there is a similar omission in the case of Amulet > of ESP. Since the device listed in the D&D RC is an Amulet of Protection from Crystal Balls and ESP, there is no reason why it shouldn't be able to function continuously. If you are referring to a Medallion of ESP, it appears that it can be used as often as desired -- but that 1/6 chance to broadcast one's thoughts each time it is used and other factors (cannot fight or cast spells while concentrating on reading thoughts, one round delay, and possible saving throw by target allowed) seem to be meant to be the controlling factors on that device. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 09:44:45 -0800 From: Darth Darknerd Subject: Where to get D&D3E font? There's a font that has the monster, traps, city, etc. icons used in the modules. I got it once, but then I forgot where to get it. Does anyone know? I'm using this for my B6 module conversion. I'll release a text version here, but I will have a spiffy PDF version as well. - Joaquin __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 13:59:18 EST From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Where to get D&D3E font? The special icon font used to be available at Eric Noah's web site. You might try EN World (www.enworld.org) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 18:23:04 EST From: Greg Pratt Subject: Re: Attracting Players to Mystara In a message dated 12/10/2002 11:03:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, darknerd2k@YAHOO.COM writes: > I am going to work on this module and update it to > D&D3e. Though the one thing I don't like is that the > player's bring down the house. House Radu stats are > much weaker in B6 than GAZ1 Grand Duchy of Karameikos > or GAZ Kingdom of Karameikos, and if B6 is played true > to form, the Radu clan can no longer be used as an > antagonist (or protagonist depending on alliances) in > the campaign. > I actually did have to deal with the destruction of the Radu clan in my campaign at one point. My solution was to have the Iron Ring move in and take over the remains of the Veiled Society's organization. Another option might be to have someone a little lower down the chain of command step in and assume power (a minor character of some sort). You could either use someone in the Radu family who isn't present (and whom the authorities can't pin anything on), or you could have another ranking member assume control of the organization (quite possibly changing the Society's goals in the process). Either way, the challenge the organization presents can step be increased. If the Iron Ring steps in and takes over the Society's area, Specularum/Mirros now has a particularly nasty thieves' guild to deal with (more so than the Veiled Society in my opinion). If someone else steps up to assume control, the Society will surely want revenge. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 18:49:47 EST From: Greg Pratt Subject: Re: Pool: The Old Rules & Immortals > How many of you still use OD&D (Rules Cyclopedia or less) in your Mystaran > campaigns? And has anyone played an extensevely immortals campaign? > New Poll: There seems to be a strong following on the list for Italy, what > are the other countries or states are being represented, and how long has > everyone been playing? I started playing back in 1983 with the old basic and expert books. I've run a lot of campaigns over the years, and ran with the OD&D rules through 1997 or so. I succumbed and switched over at that point. I still use Mystara as my game world though. In my campaigns I have run a couple of short flings with Immortals, and all save one were with limited succes. I say all save one, as the last one is still running. We decided to convert over to 3E, and we've been kind of ad-hoc developing things as we go. We're still trying things out to see what is enjoyable and reasonable. He's really loathe to give up this character (and liable to stick through any changes) as he's been playing him off and on since about 1987 or so. Also, I am from Washington state. -Greg Pratt ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 18:20:11 -0600 From: Neal Taylor Subject: Re: Pool: The Old Rules & Immortals Hey guys. I started playing with the old Red and Blue boxes in 1985. Played some with the ADD 2ed in 89-90, but a true ODD guy. my characters got up to 25th as the highest level, but my personal character only got to 15th. (the campainge lasted 3 yrs.) I'm from mississippi in the USA. and thanks for all the great ideas and advice garnered from this list _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 13 Dec 2002 to 14 Dec 2002 (#2002-323) ****************************************************************