Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 1 Feb 2002 to 2 Feb 2002 (#2002-33) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 03/02/2002, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 14 messages totalling 654 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Is dragon breath magic? 2. KenzerCo has Mystara license (13) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 01:27:39 -0700 From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: Is dragon breath magic? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: The Stalker=20 Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 5:24 PM Subject: Re: Is dragon breath magic? On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 23:27:22 -0700, Angelo Bertolli = wrote: >Since they actually made a whole saving throw after a single = monster's attacks (vs Dragon Breath) and since the game is presumably about = Dragons to a large extent, I always figured that dragons were just special. > I always thought they just called it 'Dungeons & Dragons' because they needed something to fit, and that sounded cool. Actually, the game is rarely about dragons, at least not IMC (although they did meet Calor yesterday...), because dragons are just too tough for most = adventurers! Then again, dragons should definitely be special! I tend to agree with you about the naming thing, and about how there = seems to be few dragons around... but it still seems to me by looking at = how much time they put into describing and giving dragons special rules = and abilities, and even put the dragon immortals in the RC, I figured = dragons were supposed to be VERY special. This brings up one of those "special rules" that I find only barely = tolerable: subduing dragons. Are ALL dragons supposed to have some = kind of sense of honor where they say "oh since you COULD have beat me = but spared my life, I will still serve you now." I don't see how this = fits under any of the alignments, esp not under the chaotic alignment. = I suppose in AD&D this would fit under Lawful Neutral, but really... how = many creatures, attacked and captured by another creature of a different = alignment and purpose would say "oh ok, I guess I'll serve you now?" In = fact, a dragon would be the LAST creature I expect this from. I expect = dragons to be of high intelligence and ego. I doubt any of them would = consider someone hitting them with "the flat of the sword" their master. = They'd just keep attacking... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 07:45:06 -0800 From: Shane Henry Subject: KenzerCo has Mystara license I'm not sure if this has already been noted by the MML community, but if not, you may want to check out this thread at the EN World message boards: http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1206 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 17:12:11 -0500 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: KenzerCo has Mystara license Shane Henry wrote: > I'm not sure if this has already been noted by the MML > community, but if not, you may want to check out this > thread at the EN World message boards: > > http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1206 Doesn't look like good news to me--last thing I'd like for Mystara would be to be resurrected just to make fun of it. Just MO, of course. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 11:25:42 -0500 From: Joseph Elric Smith Subject: Re: KenzerCo has Mystara license it is often easier to remove humour form a module then it is to inject it in. Ken Gygax is to Gaming what Kirby was to comic Alas poor Elric I was a thousand times more evil then you ----- Original Message ----- From: "Giampaolo Agosta" To: Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 5:12 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] KenzerCo has Mystara license > Shane Henry wrote: > > > I'm not sure if this has already been noted by the MML > > community, but if not, you may want to check out this > > thread at the EN World message boards: > > > > http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1206 > Doesn't look like good news to me--last thing I'd like for Mystara would > be to be resurrected just to make fun of it. > > Just MO, of course. > -- > > > Giampaolo Agosta > > > agathokles@libero.it > agosta@elet.polimi.it > http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 13:13:23 -0500 From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: KenzerCo has Mystara license On Sat, 2 Feb 2002, Shane Henry wrote: > I'm not sure if this has already been noted by the MML > community, but if not, you may want to check out this > thread at the EN World message boards: Oh, the absolute horror. With KenzerCo. owning a license, what the heck does that mean for us? And of all people to own it! Hackmaster Mystara? Point me toward their corporate headquarters so I know where to toss my fireballs. Just reading about their "humor injected" remakes of classic modules makes me ill. At least they aren't seriously thinking of ressurecting Mystara yet. (emphasis on _yet_!) I don't know if I could deal with a whole slew of newbies who get into Mystara though that stinking pile known as Hackmaster and KenzerCo's dubious 'humor'. Damn.. we should have bought the rights to Mystara ourselves when we had the chance. At least then we could have sat on them until we had something good. Ethan - righteous indignation. -- Kinard 210 Linux Guru Webmaster www.steelangel.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 11:05:55 -0800 From: Larry Subject: Re: KenzerCo has Mystara license Ok, i missed this. Whats going on? TSR lost Mystara or what? Please remove the fog around this... --- SteelAngel wrote: > On Sat, 2 Feb 2002, Shane Henry wrote: > > > I'm not sure if this has already been noted by the > MML > > community, but if not, you may want to check out > this > > thread at the EN World message boards: > > Oh, the absolute horror. > > With KenzerCo. owning a license, what the heck does > that mean for us? And > of all people to own it! Hackmaster Mystara? Point > me toward their > corporate headquarters so I know where to toss my > fireballs. > > Just reading about their "humor injected" remakes of > classic modules makes > me ill. At least they aren't seriously thinking of > ressurecting Mystara > yet. (emphasis on _yet_!) I don't know if I could > deal with a whole slew > of newbies who get into Mystara though that stinking > pile known as > Hackmaster and KenzerCo's dubious 'humor'. > > Damn.. we should have bought the rights to Mystara > ourselves when we had > the chance. At least then we could have sat on them > until we had something > good. > > > Ethan - righteous indignation. > > > -- > Kinard 210 Linux Guru > Webmaster www.steelangel.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ===== "Happy Hunting!" My web site: http://www.geocities.com/boonedale/ My Robotech game on Yahoo! groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RobotechGame/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 16:34:50 -0800 From: The Stalker Subject: Re: KenzerCo has Mystara license On Sat, 2 Feb 2002 11:05:55 -0800, Larry wrote: > Ok, i missed this. Whats going on? TSR lost Mystara or > what? Please remove the fog around this... > Lost it? No, of course not. It's just that TSR was bought by Wizard of the Coast (WOTC) and was then killed off (yes, no more TSR). When WOTC then released 3rd Edition (3e), they killed/cancelled all the campaign worlds except Forgotten Realms (a.k.a. the big meal ticket) and Greyhawk (which was to serve as the "generic" setting, which means it's practically dead because no changes will be allowed to happen to it). All other worlds were declared dead... Unless somebody wanted to buy the right to develop stuff for it. Ravenloft has been bought by White Wolf (those guys who publish the Vampire and Werewolf games) and it now seems Kenzer & Co. have acquired the Mystara rights. I'm not sure what to make of that... Somehow I'm glad it wasn't WOTC, because these days they think RPG is the same as dungeon crawling and hack and slash, and I hate that, but Kenzer & Co. don't exactly give me reason not to be concerned either. They might do a better job, but then they did release Hackmaster, and that title says it all... :( If they decide to use Mystara as a background for lots of dungeon crawling and hack and slash, then I can go to sleep crying for years... Some of us actually like Mystara because of its "shades of grey" atmosphere, which means that we're more interested in the role-playing and the political maneuvers made possible by the setting. If anyone associated with Kenzer & Co. are reading this, could we ask them to tell us what sort of plans they have for Mystara if any? - The Stalker ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 13:21:28 +1100 From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: KenzerCo has Mystara license At 07:45 2/02/02 -0800, you wrote: > I'm not sure if this has already been noted by the MML > community, but if not, you may want to check out this > thread at the EN World message boards: > > http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1206 this is the first that I heard about this one shawn stanley what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 20:22:52 +0000 From: Mike Harvey Subject: Re: KenzerCo has Mystara license The site is down, can you post any more information about this? Is it just a rumor or has "someone who knows" confirmed it? Personally I think it can only be a good thing. If they do nothing with it, then nothing will change. If they butcher it, the community will ignore it, and nothing will change. If they do something cool with it, we'll all benefit. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Harvey gm@dsl-only.net (formerly bing@iccom.com) http://members.dsl-only.net/~bing/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 21:52:22 -0800 From: Larry Subject: Re: KenzerCo has Mystara license On the message board thay say there not sure what there going to to Mystara. Thay may rename it, chop it up and toss out the parts thay dont want or thay may even keep it as it is, but this comes from the message board not directly from me. --- The Stalker wrote: > On Sat, 2 Feb 2002 11:05:55 -0800, Larry > wrote: > > >Ok, i missed this. Whats going on? TSR lost Mystara > or > >what? Please remove the fog around this... > > > > Lost it? No, of course not. It's just that TSR was > bought by Wizard of the > Coast (WOTC) and was then killed off (yes, no more > TSR). When WOTC then > released 3rd Edition (3e), they killed/cancelled all > the campaign worlds > except Forgotten Realms (a.k.a. the big meal ticket) > and Greyhawk (which > was to serve as the "generic" setting, which means > it's practically dead > because no changes will be allowed to happen to it). > > All other worlds were declared dead... Unless > somebody wanted to buy the > right to develop stuff for it. Ravenloft has been > bought by White Wolf > (those guys who publish the Vampire and Werewolf > games) and it now seems > Kenzer & Co. have acquired the Mystara rights. > > I'm not sure what to make of that... Somehow I'm > glad it wasn't WOTC, > because these days they think RPG is the same as > dungeon crawling and hack > and slash, and I hate that, but Kenzer & Co. don't > exactly give me reason > not to be concerned either. They might do a better > job, but then they did > release Hackmaster, and that title says it all... :( > > If they decide to use Mystara as a background for > lots of dungeon crawling > and hack and slash, then I can go to sleep crying > for years... Some of us > actually like Mystara because of its "shades of > grey" atmosphere, which > means that we're more interested in the role-playing > and the political > maneuvers made possible by the setting. > > If anyone associated with Kenzer & Co. are reading > this, could we ask them > to tell us what sort of plans they have for Mystara > if any? > > > - The Stalker > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ===== "Happy Hunting!" My web site: http://www.geocities.com/boonedale/ My Robotech game on Yahoo! groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RobotechGame/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 00:53:34 -0500 From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: KenzerCo has Mystara license On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, shawn stanley wrote: > this is the first that I heard about this one What I am thinking is that KenzerCo applied for and got the rights to the classic oD&D modules and sets, thinking maybe to 'wittily' rewrite them to fit with their 'ubermunchkin-roll-play' Hackmaster system. Unfortunately, the oD&D license probably includes the attached campaign world, Mystara. Which means that our beloved Mystara is now in the hands of the _last_ company in the RPG scene that we would want to have it. How can Mystara ever be seen as a serious FR-caliber world with an imprint like 'Hackmaster'?!?!? Gods.. It wasn't even a good joke in KotDT.. Oh the humanity. Khronus save us all... Ethan -- Kinard 210 Linux Guru Webmaster www.steelangel.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 01:03:04 -0500 From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: KenzerCo has Mystara license On Sat, 2 Feb 2002, Mike Harvey wrote: > Personally I think it can only be a good thing. If they do nothing > with it, then nothing will change. If they butcher it, the community > will ignore it, and nothing will change. If they do something cool > with it, we'll all benefit. 1) If they do nothing with it, then nothing will come and all will be well, except that KenzerCo will have spent $$ for nothing. 2) If they butcher it, then Mystara loses its reputation permanently among non-old-time gamers. 3) If they come out with something that doesn't suck (Given Kingdoms of Kalamar, not likely), then fan sites are up the creek, since as the rep from KenzerCo said: "We can do whatever we want with it" - including "officially" invalidating tens of thousands of man-hours of fan material. The common response to this would be "we'll just ignore it". That's exactly what Netscape said about Microsoft. And, my friends.. we're Netscape. They have the Mystara license, and didn't even feel it necessary to alert the community of the acquisition, or look for input, or anything. If that doesn't just scream: "A pox on the fans, Huzzah!" I don't know what does. Ethan -- Kinard 210 Linux Guru Webmaster www.steelangel.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 22:16:46 -0800 From: Larry Subject: Re: KenzerCo has Mystara license This all reminds me of a book i have that i will never read. Its titled "Board of the Rings", a lampoon parady od "Lord of the Rings" book one. I think im going to just take what i have of Mystara and direct it on the path i chouse if thay FUBAR it up. --- SteelAngel wrote: > On Sat, 2 Feb 2002, Mike Harvey wrote: > > > Personally I think it can only be a good thing. If > they do nothing > > with it, then nothing will change. If they butcher > it, the community > > will ignore it, and nothing will change. If they > do something cool > > with it, we'll all benefit. > > 1) If they do nothing with it, then nothing will > come and all will be > well, except that KenzerCo will have spent $$ for > nothing. > > 2) If they butcher it, then Mystara loses its > reputation permanently among > non-old-time gamers. > > 3) If they come out with something that doesn't suck > (Given Kingdoms of > Kalamar, not likely), then fan sites are up the > creek, since as the rep > from KenzerCo said: "We can do whatever we want with > it" - including > "officially" invalidating tens of thousands of > man-hours of fan material. > The common response to this would be "we'll just > ignore it". That's > exactly what Netscape said about Microsoft. And, my > friends.. we're > Netscape. > > > They have the Mystara license, and didn't even feel > it necessary to alert > the community of the acquisition, or look for input, > or anything. If that > doesn't just scream: "A pox on the fans, Huzzah!" I > don't know what does. > > > > Ethan > > -- > Kinard 210 Linux Guru > Webmaster www.steelangel.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ===== "Happy Hunting!" My web site: http://www.geocities.com/boonedale/ My Robotech game on Yahoo! groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RobotechGame/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 02:04:12 -0500 From: Joseph Elric Smith Subject: Re: KenzerCo has Mystara license Why do you have a book you don't read? and Actually that small tome covers the entire series, . Googulf greyteeth Frito moxie Pepsi and the whole halfling gang. I find it funny you begin to yell the sky is falling with out know what they plan to do. Ken restraint, it is what is for dinner Gygax is to Gaming what Kirby was to comic Alas poor Elric I was a thousand times more evil then you ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry" To: Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 1:16 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] KenzerCo has Mystara license > This all reminds me of a book i have that i will never > read. Its titled "Board of the Rings", a lampoon > parady od "Lord of the Rings" book one. I think im > going to just take what i have of Mystara and direct > it on the path i chouse if thay FUBAR it up. > > > ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 1 Feb 2002 to 2 Feb 2002 (#2002-33) *************************************************************