Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 4 Feb 2002 to 5 Feb 2002 (#2002-36) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 06/02/2002, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 11 messages totalling 801 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Sword Damage. (6) 2. VS: Combat System (was: Sword Damage.) (5) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 02:32:52 -0700 From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: Sword Damage. It's the age-old problem about the realism of battles in D&D. Most = people try to explain it as "hit points aren't really how much physical = damage a person can take, but how lucky they are, how much they can = survive, etc." I don't like this explaination. To me people just have = to accept that characters in D&D are basically super heroes. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Joe Kelly=20 Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 4:10 PM Subject: Sword Damage. How does everyone handle sword damage. IMC, if a character is = run-through, My players always ask, how much damage? My response is that = the sword does 1d12, so 12. Then there response is, "Well, my character = can handle 70hp of damage so I turn and attack. Excuse Me? How does that work? What am I doing wrong here? yes the = sword does 1d12 damage, and even if it is triple, that's 36pts. There = character has just been run through. In otherwords their dead! But I = can't seem to make them grasp this situation. Or better yet, what of a = short sword? A dagger? Just because they have 70 or 100 hp's shouldn't = mean anything. Help! JK Wolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 03:56:44 -0600 From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Sword Damage. This is one of the reasons that I created a different game system. Here is how it works in my system: 1. You determine if you hit. If you are successful the level of that success adds directly to the damage (thus a good solid hit is more damagin than a grazing hit). 2. Every weapon produces a base quantity of damage. The success of the hit is added to this. 3. If the target is wearing armor over the effected area, then that is subtracted from the damage done. 4. Every target has a damage capacity and that is subtracted from the damage. 5. The victim rolls a d10 and subtracts that from the damage. Here is a detailed example: A troll bashes a high-level (there aren't levels in my game, but it will give you the idea) with a club. The troll has the skill: Strike Mighty Blow and he adds his Strength and Physical Fitness numbers together for a total of 18, the troll rolls a d10 and gets 3, this is subtracted from the total for 15. With other modifiers (including the ability fo the fighter to defend himself) the end result is a 9. This is a really ugly hit! The troll weilding a club does extreme damage for a total of 29 added to the damage capacity of the troll, for a total of 37 damage. It is determined that this is a thorax hit. The fighter is wearing plate armor over his thorax, this protects him from 15 damage, so 22 gets through the armor (a roll is required for the Breaking Factor of the Armor and the Club at this number). The fighter is a very tough human who has a damage capacity of 7 (a truly awesome value for a human). This leaves 15 damage remaining. The fighter is going to be injured or killed. The fighter rolls a d10 and gets an 8, leaving 7 damage. The thorax table is consulted and an 8 results is, "Major Hit/Unconscious." The fighter drops and is out cold. The player rolls for the effect of the Major Hit: the roll is a 4 with the following effects: Pain 3, this is a great deal of pain, and most people would have trouble dealing with it, our hero is unconscious for now and needn't worry about it until (or if) he awakens. Catastrophic Bleeding: the character will die in a short time unless this is stopped (I have had several player characters in my game die due to blood loss). Internal Organ Damage: Another roll is made, this time the player gets a 3: the character's Physical Fitness score is permanently reduced by 1. Heavy Nerve Damage: The player rolls again, a 4, so long as this was not a 1 the character is merely incapacitated and does not die due to congestive heart failure. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angelo Bertolli" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 3:32 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Sword Damage. It's the age-old problem about the realism of battles in D&D. Most people try to explain it as "hit points aren't really how much physical damage a person can take, but how lucky they are, how much they can survive, etc." I don't like this explaination. To me people just have to accept that characters in D&D are basically super heroes. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Kelly Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 4:10 PM Subject: Sword Damage. How does everyone handle sword damage. IMC, if a character is run-through, My players always ask, how much damage? My response is that the sword does 1d12, so 12. Then there response is, "Well, my character can handle 70hp of damage so I turn and attack. Excuse Me? How does that work? What am I doing wrong here? yes the sword does 1d12 damage, and even if it is triple, that's 36pts. There character has just been run through. In otherwords their dead! But I can't seem to make them grasp this situation. Or better yet, what of a short sword? A dagger? Just because they have 70 or 100 hp's shouldn't mean anything. Help! JK Wolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:29:24 +0200 From: Saarela Sami Subject: VS: Combat System (was: Sword Damage.) Doesn't all that rolling (to determine one hit and damage the damage done) really bog down combat? I counted five rolls and at least three tables to look through. I've always fancied a more streamlined combat system. One or two rolls max per swing/hit. Of course any combat system will always be a bad marriage of speed and realism. - Sami -----Alkuperäinen viesti----- Lähettäjä: George Hrabovsky [mailto:ghrabovsky@TDS.NET] Lähetetty: 5. helmikuuta 2002 11:57 Vastaanottaja: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Aihe: Re: [MYSTARA] Sword Damage. This is one of the reasons that I created a different game system. Here is how it works in my system: 1. You determine if you hit. If you are successful the level of that success adds directly to the damage (thus a good solid hit is more damagin than a grazing hit). 2. Every weapon produces a base quantity of damage. The success of the hit is added to this. 3. If the target is wearing armor over the effected area, then that is subtracted from the damage done. 4. Every target has a damage capacity and that is subtracted from the damage. 5. The victim rolls a d10 and subtracts that from the damage. Here is a detailed example: A troll bashes a high-level (there aren't levels in my game, but it will give you the idea) with a club. The troll has the skill: Strike Mighty Blow and he adds his Strength and Physical Fitness numbers together for a total of 18, the troll rolls a d10 and gets 3, this is subtracted from the total for 15. With other modifiers (including the ability fo the fighter to defend himself) the end result is a 9. This is a really ugly hit! The troll weilding a club does extreme damage for a total of 29 added to the damage capacity of the troll, for a total of 37 damage. It is determined that this is a thorax hit. The fighter is wearing plate armor over his thorax, this protects him from 15 damage, so 22 gets through the armor (a roll is required for the Breaking Factor of the Armor and the Club at this number). The fighter is a very tough human who has a damage capacity of 7 (a truly awesome value for a human). This leaves 15 damage remaining. The fighter is going to be injured or killed. The fighter rolls a d10 and gets an 8, leaving 7 damage. The thorax table is consulted and an 8 results is, "Major Hit/Unconscious." The fighter drops and is out cold. The player rolls for the effect of the Major Hit: the roll is a 4 with the following effects: Pain 3, this is a great deal of pain, and most people would have trouble dealing with it, our hero is unconscious for now and needn't worry about it until (or if) he awakens. Catastrophic Bleeding: the character will die in a short time unless this is stopped (I have had several player characters in my game die due to blood loss). Internal Organ Damage: Another roll is made, this time the player gets a 3: the character's Physical Fitness score is permanently reduced by 1. Heavy Nerve Damage: The player rolls again, a 4, so long as this was not a 1 the character is merely incapacitated and does not die due to congestive heart failure. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angelo Bertolli" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 3:32 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Sword Damage. It's the age-old problem about the realism of battles in D&D. Most people try to explain it as "hit points aren't really how much physical damage a person can take, but how lucky they are, how much they can survive, etc." I don't like this explaination. To me people just have to accept that characters in D&D are basically super heroes. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Kelly Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 4:10 PM Subject: Sword Damage. How does everyone handle sword damage. IMC, if a character is run-through, My players always ask, how much damage? My response is that the sword does 1d12, so 12. Then there response is, "Well, my character can handle 70hp of damage so I turn and attack. Excuse Me? How does that work? What am I doing wrong here? yes the sword does 1d12 damage, and even if it is triple, that's 36pts. There character has just been run through. In otherwords their dead! But I can't seem to make them grasp this situation. Or better yet, what of a short sword? A dagger? Just because they have 70 or 100 hp's shouldn't mean anything. Help! JK Wolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 05:26:06 -0600 From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: VS: Combat System (was: Sword Damage.) In actual play things go very fast. If combatants are good then you don't have to worry about damage since they can often just avoid being hit (by dodging and parrying). When people get hurt, then things end very quickly; either due to incapacitation due to wounds or pain accumulation. Combat is much quicker than in OD&D based on actual experience. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saarela Sami" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 4:29 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] VS: Combat System (was: Sword Damage.) > Doesn't all that rolling (to determine one hit and damage the damage done) > really bog down combat? I counted five rolls and at least three tables to > look through. > > I've always fancied a more streamlined combat system. One or two rolls max > per swing/hit. Of course any combat system will always be a bad marriage of > speed and realism. > > - Sami > > > -----Alkuperäinen viesti----- > Lähettäjä: George Hrabovsky [mailto:ghrabovsky@TDS.NET] > Lähetetty: 5. helmikuuta 2002 11:57 > Vastaanottaja: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Aihe: Re: [MYSTARA] Sword Damage. > > > This is one of the reasons that I created a different game system. Here is > how it works in my system: > > 1. You determine if you hit. If you are successful the level of that success > adds directly to the damage (thus a good solid hit is more damagin than a > grazing hit). > > 2. Every weapon produces a base quantity of damage. The success of the hit > is added to this. > > 3. If the target is wearing armor over the effected area, then that is > subtracted from the damage done. > > 4. Every target has a damage capacity and that is subtracted from the > damage. > > 5. The victim rolls a d10 and subtracts that from the damage. > > Here is a detailed example: > > A troll bashes a high-level (there aren't levels in my game, but it will > give you the idea) with a club. The troll has the skill: Strike Mighty Blow > and he adds his Strength and Physical Fitness numbers together for a total > of 18, the troll rolls a d10 and gets 3, this is subtracted from the total > for 15. With other modifiers (including the ability fo the fighter to defend > himself) the end result is a 9. This is a really ugly hit! > > The troll weilding a club does extreme damage for a total of 29 added to the > damage capacity of the troll, for a total of 37 damage. It is determined > that this is a thorax hit. > > The fighter is wearing plate armor over his thorax, this protects him from > 15 damage, so 22 gets through the armor (a roll is required for the Breaking > Factor of the Armor and the Club at this number). > > The fighter is a very tough human who has a damage capacity of 7 (a truly > awesome value for a human). This leaves 15 damage remaining. The fighter is > going to be injured or killed. > > The fighter rolls a d10 and gets an 8, leaving 7 damage. > > The thorax table is consulted and an 8 results is, "Major Hit/Unconscious." > The fighter drops and is out cold. The player rolls for the effect of the > Major Hit: the roll is a 4 with the following effects: > > Pain 3, this is a great deal of pain, and most people would have trouble > dealing with it, our hero is unconscious for now and needn't worry about it > until (or if) he awakens. > > Catastrophic Bleeding: the character will die in a short time unless this is > stopped (I have had several player characters in my game die due to blood > loss). > > Internal Organ Damage: Another roll is made, this time the player gets a 3: > the character's Physical Fitness score is permanently reduced by 1. > > Heavy Nerve Damage: The player rolls again, a 4, so long as this was not a 1 > the character is merely incapacitated and does not die due to congestive > heart failure. > > George > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Angelo Bertolli" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 3:32 AM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Sword Damage. > > > It's the age-old problem about the realism of battles in D&D. Most people > try to explain it as "hit points aren't really how much physical damage a > person can take, but how lucky they are, how much they can survive, etc." I > don't like this explaination. To me people just have to accept that > characters in D&D are basically super heroes. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joe Kelly > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 4:10 PM > Subject: Sword Damage. > > > How does everyone handle sword damage. IMC, if a character is run-through, > My players always ask, how much damage? My response is that the sword does > 1d12, so 12. Then there response is, "Well, my character can handle 70hp of > damage so I turn and attack. > Excuse Me? How does that work? What am I doing wrong here? yes the sword > does 1d12 damage, and even if it is triple, that's 36pts. There character > has just been run through. In otherwords their dead! But I can't seem to > make them grasp this situation. Or better yet, what of a short sword? A > dagger? Just because they have 70 or 100 hp's shouldn't mean anything. Help! > > JK Wolf > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:22:18 -0500 From: scott ludwig Subject: Re: Sword Damage. > The way I've handled this in the past is that when someone gets the > drop on you and stabs you, you get a saving throw. Success means you > take normal damage -- the blow missed a vital area, the foe slipped, > or whatever. If you fail, you lose all hit points, THEN you take > damage from the attack. This is a great (but deadly) way to handle > backstabs! This is quick and elegant, I think I'll introduce it into my campaign :-) As an aside, the very concern raised by this topic led to one of the more enjoyable campaigns I've ever played in... I was stuck in the desert in the Middle East on deployment for the better part of a year, with only my D&D Rules Cyclopedia and a bag full of dice for rpg'ing. Being (at that time) overly concerned with the unrealistic nature of hit points, I grafted a modified version of the PENDRAGON combat system onto D&D. Combat became a very tense, and VERY bloody, affair--but great fun was had by all. A few of the half-remembered modifications... * Wound Points: As HPs in Pendragon, but STR+CON * Hero Points: DEX+CON+HD (can be viewed as luck, fate, experience, vitality, etc--similar to D&D HPs) * Partial Success: Damage comes off Hero Points * Failure: Damage comes off Wound Points, and has effects as in Pendragon (major wound, unconscious, etc...) * X-THACO=Weapon Skill * DEX-Armor Points-Y=Defense Bonus * STR substitutes for SIZ in most calculations * Basic Damage: STR/3 Hmmm...I might have to revisit this sometime ;-) Scott LUDWIGSHAFEN-- http://home.earthlink.net/~scottludwig/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 13:15:27 -0200 From: Andre Martins Subject: Re: Sword Damage. I tend to agree with it. If one wants combat to be reallistic, in the sense of as deadly as in real world, the only real option would be changing the rules. Bigger or smaller amounts of change might be enough to satisfy each one preferences and some suggestions have been made in other emails. Sticking with (whatever version)_D&D, I feel the best solution is to change the world and its laws. This is a magical world, people can ascend to Immortality and the experience adventurers get is, IMC, a measure of their fame (among living or dead, it doesn't matter). That gives them a name and, something they are not aware of, some magical protections, shorter of those an Immortal has, but in that direction. In this sense, a 25th level fighter is something just a little short of Exalted status and it is this magic that allows him to keep fighting after a sword has crossed his chest. It might seem too much, but then 25th level fighters, or even 12th level ones, should be rare and inspire awe. My PCs never made it past 9th level (they are 5th level right now) and it is nice to see how they can be impressed when you describe how one of them managed to make an incredibly might blow, dealing 19 hp of damage and their enemy keeps fighting despite the visible wound in his chest. Basically, IMC, belief is something very powerful and when people believe someone to be powerful, that person is given extra power by that belief. It is the same mechanism that gives the Immortals the power they have. By the same token, you can gain experience simply by making people believe you are far more powerful than you are or by gaining powerful enemies. If Thincol personally sends every thyatian legion an order to arrest some 1st level thief, people will start seeing that thief as someone important and he will be rewarded with experience points to reflect his newly earned reputation. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angelo Bertolli" It's the age-old problem about the realism of battles in D&D. Most people try to explain it as "hit points aren't really how much physical damage a person can take, but how lucky they are, how much they can survive, etc." I don't like this explaination. To me people just have to accept that characters in D&D are basically super heroes. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 19:19:23 +0100 From: Claudio Black Subject: Re: VS: Combat System (was: Sword Damage.) > I've always fancied a more streamlined combat system. One or two rolls max > per swing/hit. Of course any combat system will always be a bad marriage of > speed and realism. What about Lex Arcana' system? One roll (the dice you roll is based on how good you are at fighting) from both side to determine who hit who, and one roll to see how much damage was inflicted, according to how much one side rolled more than the other. And, a very important thing: PF are only based on how high is your COS I think we can adapt it. Example: Iridas 1st level Fighter: 15 PF, +1 to hit vs Goblin +0 to hit, 5 pfs 1st round: Iridas Rolls 10, the goblin 11. Draw, nothing happens. 2nd: Iridas rolls 12, the goblin 9: total 13 vs 9, 4 point of difference. 1-5 x1: 6-10 x2: 11-15: x3 and so on So, it's d8x1+STR mod. And the goblin says bye bye. 3rd: Iridas vs Ogre (+4): Iridas-> 11 (tot 12) Orc: 14+4: 18 damage: d10 (maybe an huge sword) x 2 + STRMOD. Probably our little Iridas has ended his days. But, after all, that's what would normally happens when a 1st level fighter encounters an ogre right? :-) This metod is fast and, I think, very realistic. While a high level fighter (having about +10 to hit maybe: note I am using 3rd edition guidelines) is easily able to kill a goblin, he still has a fair fight with bigger monsters, instead of the classical "I hit, he(it) hits" we always see at higher levels. As you may guess, there is the problem of reconsidering AC, but mine is just a proposal :-) After all, you may just think that in some conditions they just go critical when they hit (note that 3rd edition has special rules for coupe de grace IIRC: save or die, in a few words :-) ) And that's all I hope i wrote it in english and not in some orclike language.It's always difficult to exit "lurker mode". PS: let me say hello to everybody, just forget me for my bad english. Claudio, another italian member :-) AKA Black Fire ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 19:48:56 +0100 From: la Volpe Subject: Re: VS: Combat System (was: Sword Damage.) > Claudio, another italian member :-) > AKA > Black Fire Welcome onboard. Never wanted to enter the mighty Legions, huh? 8-) Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:49:16 +0000 From: Mike Harvey Subject: Re: Sword Damage. > It's the age-old problem about the realism of battles in D&D. > Most people try to explain it as "hit points aren't really how > much physical damage a person can take, but how lucky they are... I'm not inventing the idea. That was Gygax's explanation, and since he's the one who designed the system, it is the "real" one. People are of course welcome to treat hp as physical damage, but that's not what the rules were designed to represent, so it's not surprising that it seems unrealistic. All versions (?) of D&D have said that you can kill a helpless or sleeping character automatically regardless of hp... so if you change hp to mean physical damage, you really ought to change this rule, but I think the rest of the system should work okay. Someone else mentioned the idea of differentiating between "hero points" and "physical points". I've done this too. My implementation was to leave hp as-is, but when hit points reach zero, you start taking damage against your CON. If CON reaches zero, you are dead. But a person can still keep on fighting with zero hit points and some CON damage, so it helps low level characters survive. Generally when I use this method I let hp recover quickly (= character level per day), but CON recovers slowly (perhaps 1/day). hp cannot recover above zero until CON is fully healed. Anyway, just some ideas for you to play with if you like. Season to taste. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Harvey gm@dsl-only.net (formerly bing@iccom.com) http://members.dsl-only.net/~bing/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 13:23:36 -0600 From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Sword Damage. Actually, Dave Arneson developed the system, but that's ancient history... Gygax was cornered by people who thought the system produced absurd results on a regular basis and that was the explanation he came up with. It has nothing to do with how the system was designed. In those days you asked the question, "How can I do this?" You didn't ask, "What is the explanation for how this can occur?" George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Harvey" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 4:49 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Sword Damage. > > It's the age-old problem about the realism of battles in D&D. > > Most people try to explain it as "hit points aren't really how > > much physical damage a person can take, but how lucky they are... > > I'm not inventing the idea. That was Gygax's explanation, and since > he's the one who designed the system, it is the "real" one. People > are of course welcome to treat hp as physical damage, but that's not > what the rules were designed to represent, so it's not surprising > that it seems unrealistic. > > All versions (?) of D&D have said that you can kill a helpless or > sleeping character automatically regardless of hp... so if you change > hp to mean physical damage, you really ought to change this rule, > but I think the rest of the system should work okay. > > Someone else mentioned the idea of differentiating between "hero > points" and "physical points". I've done this too. My implementation > was to leave hp as-is, but when hit points reach zero, you start > taking damage against your CON. If CON reaches zero, you are dead. > But a person can still keep on fighting with zero hit points and some > CON damage, so it helps low level characters survive. Generally when > I use this method I let hp recover quickly (= character level per > day), but CON recovers slowly (perhaps 1/day). hp cannot recover > above zero until CON is fully healed. > > Anyway, just some ideas for you to play with if you like. Season to > taste. > > Mike > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Mike Harvey > gm@dsl-only.net (formerly bing@iccom.com) > http://members.dsl-only.net/~bing/ > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 16:56:54 -0500 From: scott ludwig Subject: Re: VS: Combat System (was: Sword Damage.) > 1st round: Iridas Rolls 10, the goblin 11. Draw, nothing happens. > 2nd: Iridas rolls 12, the goblin 9: total 13 vs 9, 4 point of difference. > > 1-5 x1: > 6-10 x2: > 11-15: x3 and so on Claudio, You might like to check my website out (go to the "Keep" if you do), my system for Basic D&D is very similar to this--with the major differences being... --the range for mutipliers varies by damage type; so a piercing weapon gets an additional damage roll per 4pts over the required to hit, while this would be every 5pts for a cutting weapon, and every 6pts for a crushing weapon. --as noted above, I roll an additional weapon base damage die rather than multiplying--but either method is fine. If using the weapon tables from 1e AD&D you can set "X" to some fixed value for your campaign (I like 4) and get some very nice results. The AC adjustments from the table make a variable "X" unnecessary, and really gives each weapon type a distinct feel. You might also like to take a look at the OD&D/AD&D Flexible Combat System I posted on the Vaults of Pandius. In addition to using the above mechanic, it also takes the combatants' relative skill in to account when determining the degree of success. Scott LUDWIGSHAFEN-- http://home.earthlink.net/~scottludwig/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 4 Feb 2002 to 5 Feb 2002 (#2002-36) *************************************************************