Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 28 Feb 2002 to 1 Mar 2002 (#2002-60) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 02/03/2002, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 11 messages totalling 626 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Thanks for the dwarf-golems 2. Krazadorian Military Technology (1000 AC) (6) 3. D&D Mystara Gazetteers (2) 4. Elven Empire? (2) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:34:40 +0200 From: Ville V Lahde Subject: Thanks for the dwarf-golems I forget who it was who mentioned the idea of veteran dwarves who replace lost limbs by golem-tech. Anyway, thanks a lot! I'm currently writing some stuff on Rockhome, and this will give a nice touch to the gruffy old Torkrest war veterans I've been designing. Small ideas and inspirations like this are what makes MML great. By Kagyar's beard, I salute you. Ville ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:47:10 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Re: Krazadorian Military Technology (1000 AC) -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Jordi Castille Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 7:52 PM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Krazadorian Military Technology (1000 AC) > These are like the Thunderstones from D&D3E, right? I > liked those ever since I opened the new Players > Handbook! Don't know what those are, but I can pretty much guess what they do. My idea for Runestones come from combining an article from Dragon Magazine #227 (BOTB: Dwarven Magical Items ; Explode Stones), with the concept of Dwarven Runes from the War Hammer Fantasy Dwarven Army book, with the different types of grenades found in the GURPS: High Tech book. > Steam Technology to me, in a known world sense would have been developed by the Dwarves of Rockhome or the Shire folk, in > the comming decades. Dwarves would first develop it a source for heating and discover it's used to move objects around in > there mining operations, and later the Shire folk would refine it for other use. The Shireton's defends are already running > on waterpower. Also, i do know that the Ierendei have 12 fireships that are steampowered and ironclad too, as for stealing > them from it's home port, good luck.2 of them are called the Foudryant and the Defiant, in a way one of Ierendei's Islands > has Steam Technology. Steam Technology is something that the dwarves can logically develop due to their advance tech base (compared to other nations). Dwarves typically have a high degree of technical knowledge in the engineering's, metallurgical, mining, fortification construction and stonemasonry fields in many fantasy based RPGs. Its only natural that they continue to develop their technological knowledge with the creation of steam technology. As for the Irendi, the fact they already have ships powered by steam indicates that the basic concept of steam technology is developed enough for the creation steam powered ships. Just have an old retired Irendi naval engineer pay a visit to the dwarves and take it from there.... > Black Powder technology? I believe the Savage Baronies, especially Cimaron County have you beat on that idea, And Torreon > already are building Cannons. For Dwarves, Steam Driven Weapons might be the way to start like Ballista that use Compressed > steam to fire it's projectiles further than the conventional Ballista. I know the in the Savage Coast has gunpowder, and that's part of the reason why I plan to go ahead with my idea of introducing black powder in the Known World, because the concept has already been implemented elsewhere. The Krazadorians develop black powder themselves as a result of their nations military R&D efforts that took shape after the Inhuman War. While fire arms and cannons are still in the early stage of development they are being slowly integrated into the military. They see fire arms as I way of gaining a technological /military edge over their numerous enemies, and purse this line of research most vigorously. I am using some ideas from the WH Dwarves book, the Skills & Power : Combat & Tactics book, and GURPS: High-tech for how these fire arms are being developed and fielded. George ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:48:55 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Re: D&D Mystara Gazetteers -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Jacob Skytte Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 6:24 PM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] D&D Mystara Gazetteers > The problem with an AC1000 overview is that it will quickly become a copy of parts of the Gazetteers rather than fan-work, > and while useful for people who don't have all the GAZs, it's not so cool if you respect copyright and not very creative to > just be copying stuff from official products either. Now reviews, that's another thing. ;) I have the PWA and it does contain some useful info even if set in a different time period. As for a comprehensive AC 1000 overview its something that would be useful for new Mystara DMs to have, as for obvious reasons not every one can shell out hundreds of dollars to buy all the Gazetteers set in this time period ; and I don't think everyone wants to play in the WOTI period either (I know I don't). Mystara has a ....unique situation as it is a collection of "generic" stories/games/background/history set for the D&D rules that wasn't uniformly created as a compressive campaign setting. That didn't change until the Gazetteers started coming out by focusing on the main nations of the Known World until latter. Even then, large parts of the world where only briefly mentioned or mapped (which is both a good and bad thing). Thing is, there is no one sourcebook/reference material that treats the Mystara world as a campaign setting as opposed to a collection of related books. That to me is a serious setback for creating my Mystara campaign due to the lack of information in a centralized form , information is scattered all over the place and you need many books in order to get the "big picture". Other settings I have or have played in do give you information on the world they take place in in a more or less comprehensive way. The Kara-Tur, Dark Sun, Forgotten Realms, Ravenloft, Dragon Lance , Planescape and Al-Quadim boxed sets give you enough info on their game worlds to give a new DM a good grasp on how things relate to each other on these worlds. Mystara never got the same box-set treatment (a shame in my view), so its much harder for me as a DM to see how things connect without a massive investment in OOP books. I don't foresee in the near future a Mystara Box-Set or D20 sourcebook anytime soon ; the only resource I can see for prospect Mystara DMs using the AC 1000 setting is: 1-Buying all the OOP GAZ books (or as much as economically possible) 2-Getting as much info of the various nations on the net 3-Asking questions on the world on the various Mystara related online sites/lists/boards 4-Improvising or creating stuff on the spot to fill in the knowledge gaps. 5-All of the above. Not that is a bad thing, just makes doing research on the AC 1000 timeframe a bit more.... challenging. :) George ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:59:39 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Re: Krazadorian Military Technology (1000 AC) -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Havard Faanes Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 5:41 PM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Krazadorian Military Technology (1000 AC) > I like the name Krazadorian. Is that your own? I think > I'm gonna start using that. Yes I came up with it as I was writing the email.(G) I was looking for something "dwarvish" sounding as I felt strongly that the dwarves don't call themselves "Rockhome Dwarves" when not speaking the trade language. So I started thinking of various dwarven sounding names until I found something that I liked. Where I got the particular name I don't know, but I am influenced by: The Dwarves of Rockhome, WHF Dwarves, The Complete Book of Dwarves, Dragon Magazine #278 (Dwarves Issue), The Lord of the Rings Trilogy, Babylon 5 (Zha'ha'dom) and Kara-Tur among other resources. > If you want them to be really bad, you might want to > have the Dwarves use Juggernauts aswell. I gave that some thought, but I decide against it. It would just be redundant anyway (since they have War golems), by way to "brute force" type of weapon, and be expensive and not very adaptable on the battlefield. > This is taking fantasy to the edge! I think its cool > though. Have a look at Castle Falkenstein and GURPS > Steampunk for more crazy ideas like this. Oh, and I > seem to remember a Dungeon adventure with a Dwarven > Steam Train.... Hey, what's the point in having bought GURPS: Steampunk if I don't get to use it for my Dwarves? (G) But I go for the "Divergent Technology" approach instead of the more fanciful "Steampunk" approach. Basically I look at what technologies can be reasonably be built by the dwarves (and their allies) and try to incorporate it into my campaign. > Did you ever play the Warhammer computer games? I > always liked the Dwarved Cannon units that accompanied > the mercenary armies... > Cannons would be developed long before personal > gunpowder weapons and can easily be introduced without > changing the feel of the genre too much.. :) Only game I have played so far is from the WH4K setting. > Let us know! :) You'd be interested in reading about dwarven psionics research, dire wolf mounted Calvary (Wolf Riders), Roc mounted scouts(Wind Riders), dwarven commandoes , advancements in field medicine & communications, dwarven fire arm units (Thundershot Companies)and war machines? George ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:39:42 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Re: Krazadorian Military Technology (1000 AC) -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Alex Benson Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 3:34 PM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Krazadorian Military Technology (1000 AC) > Howabout instead of disposable, just make them take alot of timeand effort to > reload for the next shot (5+ rounds and skill check of some sort)? That way > the weapons can be fired once in an engagement but later recovered and > reused. I suggest this as the spring mechanism and trigger require time and > resources to craft. It may be more efficient to be reusable, but limited to > reloading until a pause in the fighting. If I make the Bolter reusable, it defeats the whole purpose of the weapon system. For a reloadable weapon that can fire bolts at the enemy at a sustainable rate of fire, just use light, medium and heavy crossbows. For a cheap, disposable one-shot weapon that can be used fire on the enemies war mounts (or anything else in range that hasn't closed to hand to hand combat range), dropped to the ground and ignored for the rest of the battle, use Bolters. The reason the weapon is cheap is because it uses a common material for the weapon housing (wood), the main weapon is easy to make (a large bolt), it is simple in construction (only needs to fire one shot), the materials for the spring and bolt are readily available and common(steel), is low tech and doesn't require and specialized equipment, and the weapon is not labor intensive to make ( a weapons smiths assistant can make a lot of them in a day). Add all these factors up and the overall effect is a very cheap weapon for the dwarves to manufacture, and it can be distributed to every dwarven warrior for very low cost and effort. > What do these golems look like? It might be interesting that they are crude > and featureless (practicality over beauty). Big and brawny looking, they > would intimidate as well. I could not imagine something that requires massive amount of resources and skill to create would be anything short of a work of art. Let me write a little on what a war golem is like: Stone Golem -This is a golem chiseled out of stone block (usually Granite) that has been Blessed by a Master Craftspriest, sculpted by a Master Stonemason into an ideal 6 foot tall dwarven warrior (Battle Axe, Shield, Chain Mail), and binded with an Earth Elemental by a Master Runesmith. The elemental offers his services to the dwarves for an agreed upon time in exchange for a service or payment only the Dwarves can offer. The golem is capable of independent action and is highly resistant to magical attacks. As this is the smallest and least resource intensive war golem, it can be found in all dwarven strongholds and cities (usually near the main gates and important buildings). It is not intended for use on a battlefield, as it is created as a guardian of dwarven buildings. Steel Golem -This is a powerful golem that requires a significant investment of time, resources, skill and effort to build. It is a 10 foot tall golem shaped in the form of a human warrior is plate mail armor (see D&D 3E Monster Manual P.109) equipped with a large Battle Axe and Shield. Its construction requires the finest dwarven steel blessed by a clans Master Craftspriest, a large team of dwarven craftsmen, engineers and laborers, the clans Forge of Power and the combined efforts of the clans Master Craftspriests, Runesmith, Engineers, Weapons Smiths, Armor Smith and Forgers. This golem is powered by the life-force of a veteran dwarven warrior who was willing to merge his blood and soul into the golem in order to give it life. The golem is protected by a Master Rune of Protection, a Rune of Implosion and a Rune of Fear. Its Battle Axe has a Master Rune of Striking, a Rune of fire ,and a Rune of Flight. It shield is strengthen by a Master Rune of Adamant, a Rune of Spell Eating, and a Rune of Resistance. Due to the enormous resources involved in the construction of a Steel Golem, no clan has more then 1 such golem available at any time. It is intended for use in crucial battlefields and is usual held in reserve until needed. > Clerical powered? Sounds interesting, but I know little about Runesmithing. It is not created with divine magic, but of the very strength of the earth. Only a Runesmith can tap into the earths natural power and bind it into an object via a rune. I got this idea from the Warhammer Fantasy Dwarf army book. > Eak!!! Personally I am not a big fan of blackpowder in Mystara as it leads to > firearms. But hey, to each their own. I am introducing fire arms into my game, but its at an early age of development. It will take a long time before fire arms overtake the sword and bow on the battlefield in my game. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:39:43 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Re: Elven Empire? -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Joe Kelly Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 3:33 PM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Elven Empire? > Ships of the Goblinoids and Ships of the Elves by Mongoose Publishing (D20 system): (snip) Interesting book this. Need to take a look at it... George ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:29:28 -0800 From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Elven Empire? Actually that's two books. The series is: Seas of Blood Goblinoids of the Sea Elves of the Sea Ships of War (not out yet) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:29:31 EST From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Krazadorian Military Technology (1000 AC) > What do these golems look like? It might be > interesting that they are crude > and featureless (practicality over beauty). Big and > brawny looking, they > would intimidate as well. They should definately be intimidating. I dont see anything the Dwarves make as crude. But maybe in that neogothic sense. You know, like nazi or Soviet type statues.>> Hmm...I think they would be big...bigger than a dwarf and maybe bigger than a human. Initmidation through size thing going. Have you ever seen a golem from Asheron's Call? Or maybe the golem in Vamopire the Masquerade Redemption? Crude looking in appearance but crude out of intentional design. Yeah...like those staues. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:43:09 -0800 From: Jordi Castille Subject: Re: Krazadorian Military Technology (1000 AC) Giorgio wrote: As for the Irendi, the fact they already have ships powered by steam indicates that the basic concept of steam technology is developed enough for the creation steam powered ships. Just have an old retired Irendi naval engineer pay a visit to the dwarves and take it from there.... The only problem with Irendi's Naval Engineer is that that the Fireships are developed at Honor Isle and the Honor Island inhabitant are mosly mages from a part of Alphatia they emigrated from around 700 AC, possibly the fabled fire mages, these people are very isolated and chances of them helping any dwarves with their steam secrets would be very unlikely. Honor Isle's Mages wanted to share the Island's secret on steam technology might be strickly forbidden > Black Powder technology? I believe the Savage Baronies, especially Cimaron County have you beat on that idea, And Torreon > already are building Cannons. For Dwarves, Steam Driven Weapons might be the way to start like Ballista that use Compressed > steam to fire it's projectiles further than the conventional Ballista. I know the in the Savage Coast has gunpowder, and that's part of the reason why I plan to go ahead with my idea of introducing black powder in the Known World, because the concept has already been implemented elsewhere. The Krazadorians develop black powder themselves as a result of their nations military R&D efforts that took shape after the Inhuman War. While fire arms and cannons are still in the early stage of development they are being slowly integrated into the military. They see fire arms as I way of gaining a technological /military edge over their numerous enemies, and purse this line of research most vigorously. Hmmmmm, Interesting, my theory being a fan of the WDL Nations, especially Darokin, is that they may have gotten their hands on a couple firearms of the Savage Baronies from the Warriors of Hules Legion of Doom, Many of the warrior of Hule who died or were captured during their retreat from Darokin after the Siege of Darokin was Lifted, were searched and had their Useless firearms taken and brought to the Novishi of Darokin, who in turn turned it over to the Chancellor of Darokin. Chancellor Mauntea would have made the Council of 12 agree to make a nonmagical version of the smokepowder for national defense, for which they might be having black powder developed by the Dwarven Population of Selenica, but development is slow, by the time the WDL was formed, it most likely became a joint operation with the Dwarves of Rockhome since they might be the best shot at helping create it, of course the Denwarf war caused some development problems in creating the black powder, but i bel ! ieve after Everast the 16th took over, that the Joint work with Darokin continued even after Rockhome left, due to Darokin using their money to fund the creation of Black Powder, I would say by 1020 they might be successful and start getting in the Early stages real soon. By the time, Smith and Westron find out about it, they might have companies heading east to help them get up to speed in Darokin. Just a thought, George, Valencia. Yes, i came back to the MML. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:27:29 EST From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Krazadorian Military Technology (1000 AC) > Howabout instead of disposable, just make them take alot of timeand effort to > reload for the next shot (5+ rounds and skill check of some sort)? That way > the weapons can be fired once in an engagement but later recovered and > reused. I suggest this as the spring mechanism and trigger require time and > resources to craft. It may be more efficient to be reusable, but limited to > reloading until a pause in the fighting. > If I make the Bolter reusable, it defeats the whole purpose of the weapon system. For a reloadable weapon that can fire bolts at the enemy at a sustainable rate of fire, just use light, medium and heavy crossbows. For a cheap, disposable one-shot weapon that can be used fire on the enemies war mounts (or anything else in range that hasn't closed to hand to hand combat range), dropped to the ground and ignored for the rest of the battle, use Bolters. The reason the weapon is cheap is because it uses a common material for the weapon housing (wood), the main weapon is easy to make (a large bolt), it is simple in construction (only needs to fire one shot), the materials for the spring and bolt are readily available and common(steel), is low tech and doesn't require and specialized equipment, and the weapon is not labor intensive to make ( a weapons smiths assistant can make a lot of them in a day). Add all these factors up and the overall effect is a very cheap weapon for the dwarves to manufacture, and it can be distributed to every dwarven warrior for very low cost and effort.>> I see your arguement and can agree with it. I guess that I did not explain myself as I had wished. To me, dwarves do not do things cheaply. They spend years crafting mundane items and crafting them with a strange dwarven beauty. In that sense, the Bolters would be highly complicated reusable weapons. However, they are complicated to maintain and reload. Hence, in a battle the weilders would get one shot off before having to put them to the side in favor of a melee weapon. You could probably add that reloading requires the Bolter's chasis to be broken down to reload it. It's your project and I am not trying to alter anything. I just wanted to clarify my position and meaning which is; instead of being one-shot because of its cheapness (and vice versa) it's one shot because of its complicated nature. > What do these golems look like? It might be interesting that they are crude > and featureless (practicality over beauty). Big and brawny looking, they > would intimidate as well. > I could not imagine something that requires massive amount of resources and skill to create would be anything short of a work of art. Let me write a little on what a war golem is like: Stone Golem Steel Golem>> [various snippage] Thanks for the info. I hate to keep bringing up Asheron's Call. However AC has alot of golem types in it. Lowest form is a sparring golem Then there are mud golems, water golems, wood golems, limestone golems, granite golems, obsidian golems, magma golems, and so on. There are alot of golems. Now, the reason for this mentioning is that low forms of golems could be used for training or wave attacks. A mud golem could be used to probe an enemy's defenses. Check out http://ac.stratics.com/ and look in the bestiary section under golems. There may be some info there to use. > Clerical powered? Sounds interesting, but I know little about Runesmithing. > It is not created with divine magic, but of the very strength of the earth. Only a Runesmith can tap into the earths natural power and bind it into an object via a rune. I got this idea from the Warhammer Fantasy Dwarf army book.>> Okay. I should have figured it was earth based based upon the rune title. When I think of runes I think of druids. And I know nothing of Warhammer. > Eak!!! Personally I am not a big fan of blackpowder in Mystara as it leads to > firearms. But hey, to each their own. > I am introducing fire arms into my game, but its at an early age of development. It will take a long time before fire arms overtake the sword and bow on the battlefield in my game.>> As I said, to each their own. I personally do not want firearms of any sort in my version of Mystara. But that's me and my own particular veiw of Mystara and its fantasy setting. I mean, with all of the crazy materials I come up with I cannot be critical of anyone. I have Blackmoor genetically engineered soldier race living in central Davania. I have tieflings living in Glantri. I have the decendants of a baatezu and tanarri army lliving in Davania. I have a whole proto-vampire culture scattered throughout the world. I have civilized humanoids living like fuedal Japan in Davania. I have disgruntled gnomes living in DV seeking the veritable eden of the north. I have a Blackmoor based civilization living within the Federation. That Federation being based upon the BattleTech setting with Mechs and warring clans. So it's not like I am a stickler for canon materials. I am just throwing some ideas up and offering input. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:22:01 +0100 From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: D&D Mystara Gazetteers Giorgio wrote: > I have the PWA and it does contain some useful info even if set in a > different time period. It is the closest thing you can come to a campaign book for Mystara. = Having the PWA is really the best overview you'll get, I think. It is = useful for AC1000, like I said, because actually very little has changed = in those 10 years. It does not have info for all the world, but then = there is very little official info for the entire world. I, for one, am = happy about that. The only thing really missing is a good map of the = world. > As for a comprehensive AC 1000 overview its something that would be = useful > for new Mystara DMs to have, as for obvious reasons not every one can = shell > out hundreds of dollars to buy all the Gazetteers set in this time = period ; > and I don't think everyone wants to play in the WOTI period either (I = know I > don't). You don't really need the GAZs for an overview if you've got the PWA. = The GAZs are good for detail, of course, but for an overview the PWA is = the best you'll get, IMO (for AC1000 too). > Thing is, there is no one sourcebook/reference material that treats = the > Mystara world as a campaign setting as opposed to a collection of = related > books. That to me is a serious setback for creating my Mystara = campaign due > to the lack of information in a centralized form , information is = scattered > all over the place and you need many books in order to get the "big > picture". Once again, the PWA gives you the best big picture, you're likely to = get. Not in the way that other D&D settings do, no, but I think that's = only for the best. Mystara's unique situation might well be why I've = managed to keep the interest going, where all other campaign worlds = flunked quickly (well, except Ravenloft, had a good campaign going = there). > I don't foresee in the near future a Mystara Box-Set or D20 sourcebook > anytime soon ; Nope. And by now it would also be a shame, since we (the fans) have = developed it for so long. > the only resource I can see for prospect Mystara DMs using > the AC 1000 setting is: I think this depends very much on the scope of your campaign. Do you = want it to encompass the whole world? Just the Known World? Just a few = nations? You don't need immense amounts of detail to play in a Mystaran = campaign. Sure, it's nice to know everything about the entire world, but = sufficient knowledge of a few nations is enough to keep a campaign going = for a long time. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 28 Feb 2002 to 1 Mar 2002 (#2002-60) **************************************************************