Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 21 Mar 2002 to 22 Mar 2002 (#2002-81) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 23/03/2002, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 5 messages totalling 205 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Alternate Blackmoor (3) 2. On Monsters 3. BLACKMOOR TIMELINE ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:35:15 -0800 From: Herve Musseau Subject: Re: Alternate Blackmoor From: "Andy Morrow" > However, I believe that the Beagle represents a considerable barrier of entry to many new players coming to Mystara who don’t have a firm grasp on Mystaran history. Many players I have encountered have a strong aversion to mixing science fiction with their D&D. I expect that once they discovered the existence of the Beagle such people would be immediately distanced from the Mystaran experience. That isn’t fun for them and doesn’t help us recruit new players to Mystara. This train of thought leads to two questions: > How do I, as a DM, integrate the Beagle into a Mystaran campaign in a way that won’t be off putting for anti-SciFi players? > If it isn’t possible to use the Beagle as written without causing problems, how do I alter Mystaran history to be more palatable to SciFi-phobic players? It would seem possible to alter things so that instead of a space ship, the object that crashed on Mystara really was a craft from a more advanced magic based civilization, which introduced destructive and dangerous new magic to the world. This might be the most seamless solution. One might even alter the timeline so far as to say that the craft was from a pre-Alphatian, perhaps a Cyprian culture. Perhaps it’s not a craft at all, but a plane-shifting city, a true ‘City of the Gods.’ Well, as others already said you don't have to point out that things are technological in nature, just odd. Besides, pretty much everything that can be done by technology can also be done (and has been done) by magic anyway, so tech items shouldn't surprise the PCs particularly--a robot is a strange golem, a gun is a strange wand of magic missile, a spaceship is a strange skyship, a communicator is a strange crystal ball, etc. The only major difference between tech and magic is the masse availability, but since there is no contact with the Federation or with Blackmoor this isn't a problem. IMC there is something that I do differently from Mystaros and others that follow similar timelines. In short, i don't allow Blackmoor to become as technologically advanced as some do. And I most especially don't let it have what makes tech annoying in a fantasy setting: mass production. In other words, no matter what tech level they acquire, they don't mass product their inventions -- mass production is something they never discover (no factories IMC). This is due to two factors: 1. pure tech doesn't work properly on Mystara (it tends to either not work, or nor properly including leading to catastrphes like the boom of the GRoF) and it has to be supplemented by magic (technomancy), which is what Blackmoor is really doing, and magic can't be mass produced. 2. I don't have Blackmoor develop technologies following the RW pattern as some BM timelines have it, but I have it make jumpstart discoveries due to its suddenly deciphering the secrets of some techs from the Beagle. Thus, they can discover advanced techs (including nuclear, which in the end causes its destruction) without fully understanding intermediate levels of technology. Thus, they can create (technomantic) guns, radars, tanks, hovercrafts, spaceships, nuclear devices, or whatever you wish, but such items will always remain hand manufactured and thus unique, very much like gnomish contraptions. One thing they never discovered was mass production. Thus, technology doesn't intrude too deeply into the setting -- it is not any more disruptive than standard magic, or dwarven or gnomish inventions. With this premise, IMC Blackmoor is more powerful than its neighbours, but it isn't completely dominant. It can't attack its neighbours with ACBM missiles followed by airstrikes and a ground invasion by divisions of tanks, because each such thing must be manufactured individually, and so they are very expensive and hard and long to make, so you can't align them in numbers. And when you have one, you don't want to risk it. Buying technomantic items is very expensive, because each one is tailor-made. That's how I make it work. Using that paradigm, which is different from that commonly found around, I keep it manageable, and I don't have to explain such things like why there is no Mystaran Federation or why don't the colonies on other planets come back, or why you don't discovers ruins all around of big cities with skyscrapers and factories. ===== ___________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau http://www.geocities.com/hmusseau/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:04:30 +0200 From: Ville V Lahde Subject: Re: On Monsters On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tzimisce wrote: > > Or perhaps it is like the draconians in the Krynn books, or the gargun of > > the Hârn: they can't reproduce by conventional means, and despite rumours > > they can't impregnate members of other species... "but this doesn't stop > > them from trying vigorously." > > I'm curious. > I know about Dragonlance and its draconians, but I never heard about Hârn > and the gargun. From wich scenario are they? > Oh sorry. Hârn is an astonishing fantasy world, which was created originally to be system-free, although I think AD&D was the system the designers had in mind. After that they designed a system, Hârnmaster that was tailored to that world. Thus the parentheses - the last sentence was a citation from a rulebook. In addition to our 14 years old D&D campaign, I'm a regular Hârnplayer, so things "spill over" sometimes. I guess I just assumed that Hârn was a familiar concept. Ville ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:23:40 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Re: Alternate Blackmoor -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of George Hrabovsky Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 12:42 AM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Alternate Blackmoor > Check eBay for a Rules Cyclopedia or some of the Gazeteers. I managed to get > a couple of the Gazeteers (mine had been falling apart for years) for under > $15 each. I still have mine that I got way back when it came out. It is all yellow, moldy and looks like some left it in a dungeon for to long a time. (G) George ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:45:57 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: BLACKMOOR TIMELINE --- Gilles Leblanc skrev: > If they have FTL they could have sent a probe after > 3000 years or so. True, but they didn't. Why? 1) They didn't have FTL travel, we can just trash the Mystaros' timeline, which would be a shame since its a damn fine piece of history :) 2)Immortal intervention. Always works, but always feels like a lame excuse since you couldnt come up with anything better. 3) Something happened. Accidents, and unknown enemy etc etc. 3000 years is a long time... 4) Mystara was forgotten or abandoned as a worthless porject. 5) They are still thinking about it and may be returning any time soon... Håvard ______________________________________________________ Sjekk snørapporter... fra 500 ski-destinasjoner i Europa på http://no.snow.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:55:55 -0500 From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Alternate Blackmoor > > This is the first and last thing I intend to say on the matter. I had no > intention of starting one of these tiresome flame wars; and I apologize to > everyone. > > Please, list ogre-beat me up for this! I deserve it. I should have known > better. You would think that after doing this for ten years I would know > better! > No you were not starting one, Im just fucked up, tired and bored with life so I tend to reply to everyone in a harsh manner. I didnt want to offend you. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 21 Mar 2002 to 22 Mar 2002 (#2002-81) ***************************************************************