Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 25 Mar 2002 to 26 Mar 2002 (#2002-84) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 27/03/2002, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 12 messages totalling 513 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Thib's Maps of Mystara (2) 2. Stone is fulfilling my dream!! (4) 3. Blackmoor Errata (3) 4. Alternate Blackmoor 5. Rif: Re: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor Errata (2) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:22:09 +0100 From: Thibault SARLAT Subject: Thib's Maps of Mystara my girlfriend too thinks i am crazy to spend so much time on a fantasy wo= rld... well she is not one of ours...(not a role player type of personn). as for the maps, i'll do my best to put them available on friday (cause i= t's a day off). see you thib ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:26:25 +0100 From: Thibault SARLAT Subject: Stone is fulfilling my dream!! well done Stone!! when i started mapping this project of printing the whole map was the fin= al goal... i guess we are not far from it...thanks to you too... alas my walls are not large enough, yet... thib ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:27:40 -0800 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Stone is fulfilling my dream!! > alas my walls are not large enough, yet... > > thib alas my wife wouldn't have it... but I shall dream of it anyway. (how in the hell did you convince yours?) Good Job Stone. You Rock! *thumbs up* Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:29:29 EST From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Blackmoor Errata A Consolidated Response to various threads on this subject. Tech vs. Magic- without stirring the coals of which is superior, I do believe that the two should be set into two different categories. Ex. a flamethrower is not a Fireball spell. Both are fire based, but each have differing burn points and burn characteristics. Tech Limits- ultimately that is the individual DMs' choice. Given the length of histories of some human and demihuman cultures, many seem technologically stagnant. My explaination is that the Surface World has a weaker form of the Spell of Preservation cast into its skyshield, thus limiting technological advancement and therefore preventing a repeat of the Great Rain of Fire. This makes the limits Mystara specific without imposing upon other Prime settings. Tech in Mystara- I use Blackmoor tech in alot of my Mystara projects. Perhaps this is my own attempt to fill that gap between present day Mystara and ancient Blackmoor era Mystara. These examples of tech are usually leftovers from Blackmoor and serve as details than actual use. For example, the Divergans are pegged as guardians of a ruined Blackmoor military bunker. Inside is a veritable arsenal of Blackmoor weapons, appliances, and so on. However, it's been several thousand years since these things worked. Just look at anything surviving that is even 1000 years old and see how they have stood the test of time. Therefore they are of little actual use. Ironically, most operating examples are more prone to killing any intruders than aiding their adventuring career. Beagle's Role- except for a historical detail, the Beagle has little direct and apparent affect to Mystara. Knowledge of the craft is limited at best to the Immortals, DM, and perhaps a handful of scholars. The Beagle's place is placed solidly in the past. Even residual leftovers such as the NoS are not original to the craft, having been altered and changed from its original role as a starship power plant. Let's face it, the Beagle is a plot tool to establish the NoS. Blackmoor Colonies- why not? I mean if their technology will allow it then so be it. Even magic allows travel, even mass travel. I used a similar tactic to establish an off planet Blackmoor culture amid the faraway Federation space and based it upon the BattleMech Setting. Instead of wondering if they exist, I would concern myself with why they exist and what their role is to Mystara. And let me not forget, what the bajeebaz have they been doing for these past ages? Defining Mystara- Mystara is what it is. It is a game setting. A setting that has been stagnant since TSR halted that product line. Since then, its materials have been taken charge by its fanbase and spun into numerous versions. Mystara is what each fan makes of it. No versions are right. None are wrong. Flame Wars- first off, it's good to see a flame war that does not directly involve me. Though past experience has often seen me involved in such typed conflicts, it really is a bit childish to get involved in such things. Afterall, Mystara is but a game and life has more pressing concerns. Imagine arguing which Tomb Raider had the best looking Laura Croft. It's not like flaming is going to help anyone prove their point and sway opinion to your stance. If a debate goes on without a conclusion, it tends to get ugly. Just agree to disagree. Given past flame wars involving your's truly, I might seem like a hypocrite. Well, I am. Like most people, I have double standards. So yes I am a hypocrite in that regards. I am also a horse's arse when I am attacked for little reason. It's one of my pet peeves. I also hate wasting time. That makes my posts short and general. Unfortunately, they are often taken as being rude or gruff. Actually I am a very lighthearted person and having a very dry sense of humor. This is often difficult to convey over a text only forum. Anyway, enough of this. My three year old's attention span is kicking in and Asheron's Call is...well it's calling me to play. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:31:18 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Alternate Blackmoor Gilles said: While the apology for any inappropriate behaviour (no flame war erupted, so the worst possible consequence never came about), on the part of anyone on the List, is greatly appreciated, please refrain from swearing. I realise that it wasn't intended to be inflammatory, but the List code of conduct forbids this explicitly. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:00:54 CET From: la Volpe Subject: Rif: Re: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor Errata > Tech Limits- ultimately that is the individual DMs' choice. Given the length > of histories of some human and demihuman cultures, many seem technologically > stagnant. Hmm...I don't agree with this point. Mesopothamian cultures date millennias before Christ. Why should technology seem stagnant? The Mystaran technology is not that far from that of merely four centuries ago. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:22:47 -0400 From: Just Another Grue Subject: Re: Blackmoor Errata Well, without GMs having to call upon the Immortals for a fix I'd look at it as a simple sociological device. That is with magic and a natural (PC/NPC) reliance upon the Immortals the cultures on Mystara have less of an incentive to pursue technological works. If there are herbs on the planet that can fix stuff just as well as chemical medicine why develop a pharmaceutical industry. The apothecary or druid does as good a job as an M.D., your HMO and the pharmacist combined. How many of us say a D&D character gets cancer, kidney failure, diabetes or an STD? Who needs to develop a primitive airplane when there are other, better conveyances available immediately. And let's face it, the planet's human intelligencia is involved in magic not engineering. Dwarves have a racial/cultural predisposition that encourages certain studies within engineering. Elves... well, what elf is going to develop technology? Gnomes perhaps? Or halflings? If the goblinoids were smart enough (some of them are) and stopped killing each other they might have a shot at military applications of advanced technology. However their chaotic nature makes them predisposed to destroying themselves with whatever they invent... if the goblinoid-jocks allow the geeks to live long enough. ;) My money would be on someone discovering a useful technology, like chemistry, as an accident when doing some other research. However the likelihood that they would make wrong assumptions and follow alchemical principles and therefore bungle true chemistry is too great. But that's just my (polite enough I hope) two cents. (That's 1 cent in the USA, and 10 cents in Hong Kong, and given the price of gold these days it's not worth anything against the daro.) Alex Benson wrote: > A Consolidated Response to various threads on this subject. > > Tech vs. Magic- without stirring the coals of which is superior, I do believe > that the two should be set into two different categories. Ex. a flamethrower > is not a Fireball spell. Both are fire based, but each have differing burn > points and burn characteristics. > > Tech Limits- ultimately that is the individual DMs' choice. Given the length > of histories of some human and demihuman cultures, many seem technologically > stagnant. My explaination is that the Surface World has a weaker form of the > Spell of Preservation cast into its skyshield, thus limiting technological > advancement and therefore preventing a repeat of the Great Rain of Fire. This > makes the limits Mystara specific without imposing upon other Prime settings. > > Tech in Mystara- I use Blackmoor tech in alot of my Mystara projects. Perhaps > this is my own attempt to fill that gap between present day Mystara and > ancient Blackmoor era Mystara. These examples of tech are usually leftovers > from Blackmoor and serve as details than actual use. For example, the > Divergans are pegged as guardians of a ruined Blackmoor military bunker. > Inside is a veritable arsenal of Blackmoor weapons, appliances, and so on. > However, it's been several thousand years since these things worked. Just > look at anything surviving that is even 1000 years old and see how they have > stood the test of time. Therefore they are of little actual use. Ironically, > most operating examples are more prone to killing any intruders than aiding > their adventuring career. > > Beagle's Role- except for a historical detail, the Beagle has little direct > and apparent affect to Mystara. Knowledge of the craft is limited at best to > the Immortals, DM, and perhaps a handful of scholars. The Beagle's place is > placed solidly in the past. Even residual leftovers such as the NoS are not > original to the craft, having been altered and changed from its original role > as a starship power plant. Let's face it, the Beagle is a plot tool to > establish the NoS. > > Blackmoor Colonies- why not? I mean if their technology will allow it then so > be it. Even magic allows travel, even mass travel. I used a similar tactic to > establish an off planet Blackmoor culture amid the faraway Federation space > and based it upon the BattleMech Setting. Instead of wondering if they exist, > I would concern myself with why they exist and what their role is to Mystara. > And let me not forget, what the bajeebaz have they been doing for these past > ages? > > Defining Mystara- Mystara is what it is. It is a game setting. A setting that > has been stagnant since TSR halted that product line. Since then, its > materials have been taken charge by its fanbase and spun into numerous > versions. Mystara is what each fan makes of it. No versions are right. None > are wrong. > > Flame Wars- first off, it's good to see a flame war that does not directly > involve me. Though past experience has often seen me involved in such typed > conflicts, it really is a bit childish to get involved in such things. > Afterall, Mystara is but a game and life has more pressing concerns. Imagine > arguing which Tomb Raider had the best looking Laura Croft. It's not like > flaming is going to help anyone prove their point and sway opinion to your > stance. If a debate goes on without a conclusion, it tends to get ugly. Just > agree to disagree. > > Given past flame wars involving your's truly, I might seem like a hypocrite. > Well, I am. Like most people, I have double standards. So yes I am a > hypocrite in that regards. I am also a horse's arse when I am attacked for > little reason. It's one of my pet peeves. I also hate wasting time. That > makes my posts short and general. Unfortunately, they are often taken as > being rude or gruff. Actually I am a very lighthearted person and having a > very dry sense of humor. This is often difficult to convey over a text only > forum. > > Anyway, enough of this. My three year old's attention span is kicking in and > Asheron's Call is...well it's calling me to play. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:36:57 -0600 From: Stone Marshall Subject: Re: Stone is fulfilling my dream!! I have a map of Mystara at 72 miles per hex that i made with pencil and map colors...before i had a computer. It took several years to make and untill Geoff's maps of Davina, I thought I would never get it done. My wife is also a role-player, just not as obsessed as I am! She understands that Mystara is my world of choice. I used to have all of the Planescape maps on our walls as well as maps of Krynn, Toril, and Oerth. We just recently moved into this house and she told me the bedroom was mine to decorate but the rest of the house is hers to do with as she pleases. I cannot wait untill friday and can begin to work on the rest of the new maps for my walls! My wife is very understanding! > From: Chris Furneaux > Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Stone is fulfilling my dream!! > Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:27:40 -0800 > > > alas my walls are not large enough, yet... > > > > thib > > alas my wife wouldn't have it... but I shall dream of > it anyway. (how in the hell did you convince yours?) > > Good Job Stone. You Rock! *thumbs up* > > Chris. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® > http://movies.yahoo.com/ > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:00:23 -0800 From: Jordi Castille Subject: Re: Thib's Maps of Mystara damn, Stone, you are the man, i wish i could see that map in your house. Jordi Castille, Knight of Mystara. Stone Marshall wrote: Yes I did! :) It actually only took 58 sheets of paper and a whole bunch of printer ink but it is beautiful to see! Someday, when I have a digital camera, I will email a pic of it to anyone who is interested. I want to eventually make a full world map at 24 miles per hex on my wall. As I am typing this my wife looked over my shoulder...and shook her head. She does love me to put up with my obsessions!!!!!! > From: Gilles Leblanc > Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Thib's Maps of Mystara > Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:22:16 -0500 > > > Hi everyone! The list has been quiet for a few days so I thought I would > > send Thib a message asking him if his maps for Davina or Skothar at 24 > miles > > per hex were ready. I have printed up a copy of his Brun map at 24 miles > per > > hex and it takes up one of my bedroom walls! My wife thinks I am crazy! > LOL > > :) > > How have you arranged that ? Have you printed all the maps on like hundreds > of sheets of paper and put them on your wall ? > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 00:10:49 -0500 From: David Knott Subject: Re: Blackmoor Errata From: "Just Another Grue" > > How many of us say a D&D character gets cancer, kidney failure, diabetes > or an STD? I was in one "Monty Haul" campaign where the DM let us spend our excessive wealth as we saw fit. When we mentioned having an orgy, he quoted a price for obtaining the women, then added an extra charge for clerical healing to cure the STDs we picked up from them. > Who needs to develop a primitive airplane when there are other, better > conveyances available immediately. Dwarves and other non-magical races come readily to mind. Also the Gnomes of Serraine. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 00:23:40 -0500 From: David Knott Subject: Re: Rif: Re: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor Errata From: "la Volpe" > > Tech Limits- ultimately that is the individual DMs' choice. Given the length > > of histories of some human and demihuman cultures, many seem technologically > > stagnant. > > Hmm...I don't agree with this point. > Mesopothamian cultures date millennias before Christ. Why > should technology seem stagnant? The Mystaran technology is not > that far from that of merely four centuries ago. One point to keep in mind is that once Eurasian cultures developed agriculture, they began an ever accelerating technological revolution that would propel them to world dominance. The major hurdle is going from a hunter/gatherer society to an agricultural one -- after that step, things accelerate rapidly. I generally assumed that two factors stopped Mystara from undergoing a second Industrial Revolution in the post-Blackmoor era: 1) Many technological developments (such as gunpowder) are either completely impossible or possible only under specific rare circumstances on Mystara. 2) For some things (such as lighting) the available magical solutions actually work better than their technological equivalent. After all -- if you could get a wizard to cast Continual Light on the upper end of a pole along a road, there would be no reason to research more mundane ways to light that road up. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 06:32:27 +0100 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: Stone is fulfilling my dream!! hey, Stone, what is the limit size an email can have for you to receive?because the file is going to be huge... Thibault Sarlat. ICQ 16622177. homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st Join me at:thibault.sarlat@wanadoo.fr clenarius@hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 25 Mar 2002 to 26 Mar 2002 (#2002-84) ***************************************************************