Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 27 Mar 2002 to 28 Mar 2002 (#2002-86) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 29/03/2002, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 9 messages totalling 385 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Black powder , Magic and Technology oh my! (2) 2. Mystara GURPS Tech Level (1,000 AC) v1 3. Some answers and ramblings on the Tome of Mystaran Magic 4. Rif: Re: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor Errata 5. Blackmoor Errata (3) 6. An orc city for Mystara ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 03:23:18 -0500 From: David Knott Subject: Re: Black powder , Magic and Technology oh my! From: "Jordi Castille" > Here's the deal, a Magocracy like Glantri may use Continual Light on a > pole to do the and place them on poles to add nightlights to the cities of > Glantri, but here's the problem, the DoD dispells just about every mortal > magic known to man. Meaning that it can be forced to look for > nonmagical ways to find comfort due to the fact that all mortal magic fails, > once every year. Everu new year's eve in the known world, they wish to > find a way for items to continue being used specially non magical ones > that won't fail during the day of dread Yes, you have just clearly identified an obvious effect of the failure of magic in 1009 AC and in the subsequent Days of Dread. Prior to WotI, Glantri and other culture dependent on magic could set up permanent magical effects such as light poles enchanted with Continual Light spells with little worry except from vandalism by high level rogue wizards. However, from 1010 AC on, anyone attempting to create such "permanent" enchantments would have to face the reality that those enchantments would certainly fail on the 28th day of Kaldmont. Those cultures that cannot recruit enough wizards to recharge such "permanent" fixtures at that time would be forced to give up whatever luxuries were conferred by those "permanent" magical fixtures. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:08:18 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Mystara GURPS Tech Level (1,000 AC) v1 Giorgio wrote: > > Mystara GURPS Tech Level (1,000 AC) v1 The problem with GURPS tech levels is that it is a very rough scale. At least a difference between Dark Ages (stirrups, cavalry, horse-collar) and Late Middle-Age (most other developments) should be made. > (Gaz 3)The Magocracy of Glantri > --TL3: Medieval > > (Gaz 6)The Dwarves of Rockhome * > --TL3/4: Medieval & Renaissance/Colonial > > (Gaz 11)The Republic of Darokin > --TL3: Medieval > > (Gaz 15)The Empire of Thyatis > --TL2/3: Iron Age & Medieval (Roman Empire) > > (Gaz 15)The Empire of Alphatia > --TL2/3: Iron Age & Medieval IMO, these are all late medieval/early renaissance. Glantri has started hot-air balloons development by 1000 AC, for example. Thyatis and Alphatia can hardly be considered "Iron Age" as well. BTW, gunpowder simply doesn't work on Mystara, magic-endowed smokepowder would be needed to power guns. Where it is available, tech level is fully Colonial, as in Savage Baronies, which are a century-old Thyatian colony. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 02:32:13 -0700 From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: Some answers and ramblings on the Tome of Mystaran Magic Wow, someone might say that italians have too much time on their hands then... :p ----- Original Message ----- From: "Agathokles" Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 4:12 PM Subject: Re: Some answers and ramblings on the Tome of Mystaran Magic > DM wrote: > > > > > Sin embargo, no puedo hacerlo en italiano, y gustaría saber si usted > > > va a > > > distribuir una versión de tu trabajo en ingles en el futuro. > > > > I'm sorry, this is not in my plans for near future. Escuchame, Jorge > > ;) > > OTOH, this is (on a very, very tentative base) on my plans--limited to > the smaller Guide to Immortals, anyway. > I hope to be able to translate the Guide to Immortals, even though it > will take a lot of time. If someone else wants to translate some part of > that work, it would speed up things significantly. > -- > > > Giampaolo Agosta > > > agathokles@libero.it > agosta@elet.polimi.it > http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:33:01 EST From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Rif: Re: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor Errata <> How could the elves dictate tech progress? They are mostly an isolated minority among the Mystaran peoples. I can understand how they could be tech stagnat within their own societies. However, I do not see how they can dictate stagnancy to everyone else. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:42:42 EST From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Blackmoor Errata <<>IMO too much tech will erode the > fantasy aspect of Mystara and make it...well like Earth. Here I disagree. The fact that in Mystara Arcane magic and Divine magic actually exists and works, means to me that it can never be like our Earth. The presence or absence of magic is such a fundamental element that all else pails in comparison to it, and means that a world like Mystara can never be anything but vaguely similar to our own history and experiences.>> So you mean to say that the introduction of apparent technology would not alter the fantasy aspects of Mystara? I personally disagree with you there. However, I am not going to try to dissuade you by continuing debating this. <> Well, Mystara's nations are based off of real world nations. Likewise, canon and non-canon works are created by real world people who fall upon real world history and experiences to craft their plots and ideas. So yes, I can easily see how Mystara can become Earthlike. It's human nature. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:52:15 EST From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Black powder , Magic and Technology oh my! <> Glantrians do have access to these items (Continuous Light cast on items).=20 These lights are given as being inexpensive and most households using them.=20 IMO I doubt that these items have made braziers, lanterns, and torches=20 obsolete. In fact, you can find them mentioned and illustrated in various=20 Glantri related works. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:53:47 EST From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Blackmoor Errata <> The airplane was given as an example. Mystara has an advantage over real world in developing a mundane air vessel. With its existing skyships, flight is accepted and some of the basics of aerodynamics and lift are known (as per CoM). <> This may be deviating from its intent, but I never saw Darokin's military as all that great. IMO its too Three Musketeer-ian for my mental image of Mystara. <> Actually, James has waterworks running textile mills for Thyatis in the almanac. I see waterwheels already in use so I have no problem with them being used to run the textile mills. I do have a problem with certain details. However, those concerns were not taken into account and that issue of the almanac has been published. Given thta I work in the textile industry I think that my thoughts on the matter had some bearing. But then again, I am evil when Thy interests are concerned. I don't have the PWAs handy but I think that textiles are already given as exports from Darokin and Minrothad. So there is some textile industry there and one large enough to create a surplus. <> Don't take this as an insult, but I do not see the problem with this discussion. The MML is an idea churning machine. I have seen far wider ranges of matters discussed. Just because airplanes are discussed, doesn't mean that there will be a M-Boeing created soon. I have already stated that I don't want tech in Mystara. I am just preparing for a rekindling of a "Tech vs. Magic" debate. This is where this is leading. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:37:59 -0800 From: Jordi Castille Subject: Re: Blackmoor Errata Alex Benson wrote: > Actually, James has waterworks running textile mills for Thyatis in the almanac. I see waterwheels already in use so I have no problem with them being used to run the textile mills. I do have a problem with certain details. However, those concerns were not taken into account and that issue of the almanac has been published. Given thta I work in the textile industry I think that my thoughts on the matter had some bearing. But then again, I am evil when Thy interests are concerned. I don't have the PWAs handy but I think that textiles are already given as exports from Darokin and Minrothad. So there is some textile industry there and one large enough to create a surplus. > Don't take this as an insult, but I do not see the problem with this discussion. The MML is an idea churning machine. I have seen far wider ranges of matters discussed. Just because airplanes are discussed, doesn't mean that there will be a M-Boeing created soon. I have already stated that I don't want tech in Mystara. I am just preparing for a rekindling of a "Tech vs. Magic" debate. This is where this is leading. ******************************************************************** Everything is thinking that we are advancing Mystara's technology to fast but fail to discover that the nations of magic based economies like Glantri and Alphatia are also developing more efficient and easier to cast spells too. I did not know that Thyatis was already creating Waterwheel powered Textile looms reminescent of the early 1700s, I would have thought that the first Water powered machines would have been the Mills, and seeing Darokin and Thyatis as the poineers in that technology, do to Darokin as a leading Grain producer of the known world, who would use that technology to send all their grain products to the farest reachs of the Sea of Dread, While Thyatis could sent their exports all the way to Davania and with the help of the Minrothads, get access to the Savage Coast. Technology and Magic can be blended together but only if both people can work on small advances in the field of magic and technology. Jordi Castille, Knight of Darokin. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:19:51 -0800 From: Joe Kelly Subject: An orc city for Mystara Has anybody used this module yet? And if so, where did you place it? JK Wolf http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/cities_skraag.htm By Wil Upchurch=20 Home to over twenty-five thousand rampaging orcs, Skraag is a city of pure = brutality, a place of nightmare that even the bravest adventurer will fear = to tread. Built from the ruins of an ancient dwarven stronghold the orcs = themselves destroyed, the hordes of Skraag range for miles in every = direction, brining slaughter and misery to any community unfortunate = enough to be within range of their predations.=20 Few dare to make their way into Skraag, for the orcs are an evil race that = despise any not of their own kind. To travel on the plain of Skraag, or = within its deep caverns is to court death itself.=20 No amount of skill in arms or magic will prevail here and yet there is = much that must be discovered about the orc's organisation and overall = aims. Do they intend to stay within the boundaries of the city? Or are the = warlords of the marauding orc armies building up their strength so as to = sweep all kingdoms before them in a murderous red tide of blood-letting = and carnage?=20 Skraag, City of the Orcs heralds an exciting new series from Mongoose = Publishing. Designed to provide Games Masters with entire settlements and = communities to drop into any existing campaign, Cities of Fantasy will = open the door to an entire treasure trove of exciting gaming sessions, = made all the more memorable for the locations in which they are set. Every = city within the series is specifically designed to inject the very element = of high fantasy into any campaign. Skraag represents the kind of city that = is often mentioned or spoken about, but rarely written as a sourcebook, = ready for Games Masters to use with their players - you now have an entire = city of orcs to play with. Enjoy!=20 ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 27 Mar 2002 to 28 Mar 2002 (#2002-86) ***************************************************************