Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 1 Apr 2002 to 2 Apr 2002 (#2002-90) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 03/04/2002, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 35 messages totalling 1682 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Davania cities on thib's map (6) 2. Reptile God/Immortal? (7) 3. Atruaghin Plateau shrinkage? (10) 4. Hexagrams (2) 5. Black powder , Magic and Technology oh my! (2) 6. What Immortals are good for TOEE? 7. Blackmoor Errata (6) 8. Any D&D3E for Fey? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:35:45 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Davania cities on thib's map all the cities/towns come from Geoff's own map of the region. I just zoomed on them as i zoomed on the rest of the continent.But they were present on Geoff's maps. I think he has some infos on several of them (Izondian Deep) but as for the others , he's the only one to know... Thibault Sarlat. ICQ 16622177. homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st Join me at:thibault.sarlat@wanadoo.fr clenarius@hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 05:23:43 -0800 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Reptile God/Immortal? At 08:57 PM 4/1/02 -0800, you wrote: > Is there a god (aka Immortal) that can be or double as a reptile god? I > want to tie Against the Cult of the Reptile God > an possible epic campaign. It's so cool. Demogorgon is a patron of the Gator men, I believe. Another one (mentioned by someone else as well) is Ka the Preserver. There's also Slizzark the Lurker, a kopru Immortal, who might work. Set (you mentioned him in another post) is also a possibility- he's appeared in several fan timelines/articles, notably those of James 'Mystaros' Mishler. Other possibilities are any of the Dragon rulers- Pearl, Opal... the third one (can't think of its name offhand) or the Great One. The chaotic dragon ruler (opal, I think?) would probably be most appropriate. As for your discussions of the Viper Clan- as someone else noted, they were changed to the Tiger Clan in the gazetteer of the region, but there is no reason that there can't be more "clans" than the ones presented in the Atruaghin Gazetteer- there is certainly room for them on the ground (especially when you notice, as I did recently, that the map of the atruaghin plateau in 24 mile hex maps in other products doesn't exactly match the map of it in 8 mile hexes... someone made an error and shrank the plateau!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 05:31:20 -0800 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Atruaghin Plateau shrinkage? The recent post about the Viper Clan made me finally decide to post this, even though the project isn't entirely complete yet. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else (particularly my fellow cartographically inclined Mystarans) have ever noticed that the map of the Atruaghin Plateau at 24 miles/hex in several products (notably the Blue Box Expert map, though it is also repeated on later maps- including the WotI map, IIRC!) doesn't quite match up with the 8 mile/hex map of the plateau in Gaz14. A comparison of the 24 mile/hex maps of Sind from CoM and the 8 mile/hex maps of the plateau and the known world (best taken from the Trail Maps) also demonstrates this very well, IMO. It looks as if the Atruaghin Plateau was shrunk in size between conversions, leaving a smaller plateau (bad enough) but also throwing off conversions between the 24 mile/hex maps of the western nations (Sind and beyond) and the Known World!! I've got a (mostly) complete and corrected *alternate* version of the region (alternate in the sense that it may well create havoc with people who have used the previous maps) that I will post on my website later this week for those who are interested. One notable addition to my maps, utilizing the expanded areas of the Atruaghin people, is the inclusion of the long-vanished Viper Clan. Yes, the Viper Clan does exist, and may, in fact, be behind the cartographical errors that have plagued the region of the Atruaghin Plateau! (This is where my work is as yet incomplete- I've been working on an expansion of the Gaz14 setting, including the Viper Clan and the Badger Clan, and an expanded view of their history and dealings with other nations, but it is incomplete at the moment...) Anyone interested in hearing more? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:32:59 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Davania cities on thib's map Thib wrote: > all the cities/towns come from Geoff's own map of the region. > I just zoomed on them as i zoomed on the rest of the continent.But they were > present on Geoff's maps. > I think he has some infos on several of them (Izondian Deep) but as for the > others , he's the only one to know... That's pretty much the story. There are writeups on Shawn's site concerning the cities of the Adakkian Sound region (about 25 locations in all), and the first edition of the DM's Guide to Davania (also in the Vaults) has writeups for all the Cestian locations (including PWA-style entries for the four kingdoms of Cestia). I had every intention of doing writeups for the other locations, but never had the time to get around to them. Now, I'm inclined to leave the remainder as a blank slate for other people to fill in as desired for their own campaigns, although Ethan has done a lot of work in the Vulcanian regions, and Francesco has done work in the Izondian/far northwest region. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:34:53 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Atruaghin Plateau shrinkage? I'd be very much interested in seeing it, as it would have an impact on a long-overdue mapping project that I'm finally getting around to finishing. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:21:19 -0800 From: Ricardo Matheus Subject: Re: Hexagrams I use Photoshop to make my maps and I have templates of every tile I used. As for the coastlines and rivers I just draw them freehand on a new layer. Darkblood The Mystara Map Navigator: www.geocities.com\darkblood18\ _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 18:11:43 +0000 From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Reptile God/Immortal? Andrew Theisen wrote: > > As for your discussions of the Viper Clan- as someone else noted, they were > changed to the Tiger Clan in the gazetteer of the region, but there is no > reason that there can't be more "clans" than the ones presented in the > Atruaghin Gazetteer- there is certainly room for them on the ground Uhm, I thought he was speaking of the Viper goblins in B10... -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:01:46 -0800 From: David Keyser Subject: Re: Atruaghin Plateau shrinkage? Definitely! I was planning on carrying a sub-campaign there soon. And thanks for catching those errors, I never checked it against the other maps. Dave Keyser Andrew Theisen wrote: > The recent post about the Viper Clan made me finally decide to post this, > even though the project isn't entirely complete yet. > > Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else (particularly my fellow > cartographically inclined Mystarans) have ever noticed that the map of the > Atruaghin Plateau at 24 miles/hex in several products (notably the Blue Box > Expert map, though it is also repeated on later maps- including the WotI > map, IIRC!) doesn't quite match up with the 8 mile/hex map of the plateau > in Gaz14. > > A comparison of the 24 mile/hex maps of Sind from CoM and the 8 mile/hex > maps of the plateau and the known world (best taken from the Trail Maps) > also demonstrates this very well, IMO. It looks as if the Atruaghin Plateau > was shrunk in size between conversions, leaving a smaller plateau (bad > enough) but also throwing off conversions between the 24 mile/hex maps of > the western nations (Sind and beyond) and the Known World!! > > I've got a (mostly) complete and corrected *alternate* version of the > region (alternate in the sense that it may well create havoc with people > who have used the previous maps) that I will post on my website later this > week for those who are interested. > > One notable addition to my maps, utilizing the expanded areas of the > Atruaghin people, is the inclusion of the long-vanished Viper Clan. Yes, > the Viper Clan does exist, and may, in fact, be behind the cartographical > errors that have plagued the region of the Atruaghin Plateau! > > (This is where my work is as yet incomplete- I've been working on an > expansion of the Gaz14 setting, including the Viper Clan and the Badger > Clan, and an expanded view of their history and dealings with other > nations, but it is incomplete at the moment...) > > Anyone interested in hearing more? > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 13:00:41 -0800 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Atruaghin Plateau shrinkage? > A comparison of the 24 mile/hex maps of Sind from > CoM and the 8 mile/hex > maps of the plateau and the known world (best taken > from the Trail Maps) > also demonstrates this very well, IMO. It looks as > if the Atruaghin Plateau > was shrunk in size between conversions, leaving a > smaller plateau (bad > enough) but also throwing off conversions between > the 24 mile/hex maps of > the western nations (Sind and beyond) and the Known > World!! I might try to put it down to mapper error, but I have a suggestion that might justify it in a more interesting way. What if there were two levels to the Atruaghin Plateau, an upper and a lower. When one maps the Atruaghin Plateau from the plateau itself it is small, but when one maps from the bottom it is much larger. Seeing as it is largely wilderness it is possible that not many have actually spent long enough looking to actually figure it out assuming that their measurements were more inacurate then usual this time and just extraporlating from other maps etc. Of course the Viper clan who live on this seperate part know about this and in fact exploit it as it keeps them isolated and free from the other clans warring. It would be very interesting for PC's if they climb down the plateau's steep face and think yay we can just wonder home now and then run into the viper clan who for some reason don't want to let them go anywhere. Say they get captured but manage to escape without their climbing stuff thinking they are home free they are in for the shock of their lives, another cliff to clamber down but this time with no gear. Now they have the Viper clan on their heels and no way down, unless.... You get the picture. What do you guys think, could the explanation of map differences work? Throw in perhaps some Hallucinary terrains spells like in X5 and anythings possible. Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 23:02:29 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: Atruaghin Plateau shrinkage? as always i am longing for more about maps...even when it means that i have a lot to re-map... Thibault Sarlat. ICQ 16622177. homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st Join me at:thibault.sarlat@wanadoo.fr clenarius@hotmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Theisen" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 3:31 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] Atruaghin Plateau shrinkage? > The recent post about the Viper Clan made me finally decide to post this, > even though the project isn't entirely complete yet. > > Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else (particularly my fellow > cartographically inclined Mystarans) have ever noticed that the map of the > Atruaghin Plateau at 24 miles/hex in several products (notably the Blue Box > Expert map, though it is also repeated on later maps- including the WotI > map, IIRC!) doesn't quite match up with the 8 mile/hex map of the plateau > in Gaz14. > > A comparison of the 24 mile/hex maps of Sind from CoM and the 8 mile/hex > maps of the plateau and the known world (best taken from the Trail Maps) > also demonstrates this very well, IMO. It looks as if the Atruaghin Plateau > was shrunk in size between conversions, leaving a smaller plateau (bad > enough) but also throwing off conversions between the 24 mile/hex maps of > the western nations (Sind and beyond) and the Known World!! > > I've got a (mostly) complete and corrected *alternate* version of the > region (alternate in the sense that it may well create havoc with people > who have used the previous maps) that I will post on my website later this > week for those who are interested. > > One notable addition to my maps, utilizing the expanded areas of the > Atruaghin people, is the inclusion of the long-vanished Viper Clan. Yes, > the Viper Clan does exist, and may, in fact, be behind the cartographical > errors that have plagued the region of the Atruaghin Plateau! > > (This is where my work is as yet incomplete- I've been working on an > expansion of the Gaz14 setting, including the Viper Clan and the Badger > Clan, and an expanded view of their history and dealings with other > nations, but it is incomplete at the moment...) > > Anyone interested in hearing more? > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 21:03:41 +0000 From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Davania cities on thib's map > people to fill in as desired for their own campaigns, although Ethan has > done a lot of work in the Vulcanian regions, and Francesco has done work > in the Izondian/far northwest region. > > Geoff > Where is that stuff available? On the Vaults, there is pretty much only the almanac stuff and a DM guide to davania. I know there is a davania group tough. B _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 21:12:44 +0000 From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Reptile God/Immortal? What happened is that GAZ14 ( The Atruaghin Clans ) and the almanacs list the Atzanteolt worshiping clan as the Tiger Clan. But the map that comes whit GAZ14 is all screwed up. For one thing the Tiger Clan is named Viper clan on the map and it's villages as name suggestive to vipers. Secondly I beleive there may be an error concerning the placement of the bear, elk and viper ( tiger ) clan on the map or an error in the GAZ as it states that the bear clan gets attacked by the Tiger clan since they are north of them. It doesnt mention this as clearly for the elk clan. On the map the elk clan is north of the tiger clan and the bear clan north of the elk clan so the elk clan should be more in the line of fire than the bear. I have ruled IMC that since the bear clan live near the plateau's edge or sometimes on ledge and since they have the world elevator they are still a more accessible target for the tiger clan than the bear clan. I also use the map but replace the viper clan with the bear clan. Also the Turtle clan description does not make a fuss about Tiger clan attacks while the bear clan does. This is weird since the turtle clan is the closest to the tiger clan and the only 2 clans not on the plateau are the turtle and tiger clan. This leads me to beleive that the turtle clan or getting the brunt of the attacks of the tiger clan since they don't have to do any climbing or such to get to them. > Andrew Theisen wrote: > > > > As for your discussions of the Viper Clan- as someone else noted, they > were > > changed to the Tiger Clan in the gazetteer of the region, but there is > no > > reason that there can't be more "clans" than the ones presented in the > > Atruaghin Gazetteer- there is certainly room for them on the ground > > Uhm, I thought he was speaking of the Viper goblins in B10... > -- > _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 21:18:18 +0000 From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Atruaghin Plateau shrinkage? Maybe the atruaghin plateau's differences was due to earlier changes made from earlier procducts like the definition of the Heldann Freeholds in X1 and then the Heldannic Territories in the PWA's. When the known was first created and when "Mystara" was finalised in one concrete vision many things were altered. I would think that in such a case the map from GAZ14, WoTI, the PWA's and JA are the more canon one from other older sources which may suggest a different size. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 13:25:14 -0800 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Black powder , Magic and Technology oh my! --- Jordi Castille wrote: > Here's the deal, a Magocracy like Glantri may use > Continual Light on a pole to do the and place them > on poles to add nightlights to the cities of > Glantri, but here's the problem, the DoD dispells > just about every mortal magic known to man. Meaning > that it can be forced to look for nonmagical ways to > find comfort due to the fact that all mortal magic > fails, once every year. Everu new year's eve in the > known world, they wish to find a way for items to > continue being used specially non magical ones that > won't fail during the day of dread, I will have to > tell you that all things are being made advanced > whether it's magic or technology, during the war of > the Norwold region between Norwold and the Heldannic > Territories, The Alphans tried to find new magic. > like using fresh lava to create a more stronger > earthquake spell, all magic is being researched just > as technology is being secretly researched. > Jordi Castilele > Knight of Darokin sorry this is a bit belated. I would rule IMC that magic light spells are just too... well... magical. The problem with the light spell is while it does provide a nice globe of light that you can see the things in but it has an unnaturally steep falloff at 60 feet which makes crossing that boundary more dangerous then with torchlight because there is a second where the eye has to adjust to the sudden change, and thus a prime oppitunity for lurkers in shadows. I would also rule that it does not cast shadows in a natural way and these two facts combined make people uncomfortable with magic illuminating their streets. Extending this to animals as well, horses that are unsued to the light would be easily spooked and behave in a frighterned manner. These factors mean that where mages rule it could go either way. Some may want to have their city illuminated by magic at all times, others may just prefer the natural light and atmosphere it gives. Perhaps they may want to be able to come and go unseen more easily. I might suggest that Glanti City is illuminated this way and every year now when the lights go out on the DoD there is a big festival the next night for the lighting of the city where a parade mrches through town as the steets are illuminated again. I would also like to point out that Continual light does not have to be cast on anything it can just be cast at a particulay place making theft imposible, and the only way to remove it being the DoD or a mage of sufficent level to dispell them. Thus no streetlights but lit streets. What do you think of this as an idea? Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 14:03:54 -0800 From: Cassandro Glantri Subject: Re: Reptile God/Immortal? What about Bachraeus, the Patron of Medusae, mentioned in the RC? Kit Navarro ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 14:14:59 -0800 From: macnerd Subject: Re: What Immortals are good for TOEE? Hello Dan. Thanks so much for your thoughts. I really want to use Set. But a lot of people really were turned off as I think they were canon purests. I thought of combining Atzanteoltl/Set. Perhaps for Immortals, time is irrelevent, they exist in all times. So, Atzanteoltl could have been in the past and would have been Set. Or maybe Atzanteoltl is a ally/servent of Set. The map for Atr. Clans still says Viper Clan, while the booklet states Tiger Clan. I used Viper Clan because that's what the booklet says. Also, unless the climate changes, there shouldn't be many tigers in that neck of the woods. :-) Also, in comparison to the RW Nahuatl, Oltec, Toltec, Tlaxcala, Mayan, etc. tribes, Tigers did not exist in that part of the world. Viper seems easier to use, plus that maps says Viper, and players see the map. (It's hard getting to read the books :) For my Rise of the Triad concept, the two proponents of the TOEE will be: Set - darkness, reptiles, order, evil, domination Tiamat - perversion and corruption of nature, chaos, elements, dragons, expansion This is an easy snafu to get many players from virtually any background hooked into a single game. - Joaquin > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On > Behalf Of Dan Eustace > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 10:15 PM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] What Immortals are good for TOEE? > > > > I placed Set, as this was an Egyptian god, which naturally > fits with the > > whole historical mystery of Nithians and Traldaran colony. > Also, because > > Set is thought of as a serpent god at times, the whole > "Viper" clan fit in > > well with B10, as well as occurrences with TOEE, and the > Against the Cult > of > > the Reptile God. I also threw in a swampy adventure with > that vampire > > lizard king module, and placed that in southern Darokin in Malpheggi > swamp. > > There was the Viper clan of Athruaghin clan, which created > a good tie in > as > > well. I linked this with a module that took place in > Vestland, and also > > with the whole Desert Nomad thing. > > This sounds pretty good, but I'm not too familiar with the > specifics of > ToEE. An Immortal like Set could definitely fit in the > Nithian pantheon, > whether he was a new immortal or just another name for one of the more > common ones. BTW, the Viper Clan actually got changed to the > Tiger Clan in > the final version of the Atr. Clans. Don't let that > discourage you, though, > since it could easily be changed back to Viper, or else you > could create 2 > seperate clans. > > > I tied in Tiamat, as the corupter of Mother Nature, and > master of the > > various Elemental Cults of TOEE (befitting if you consider > how the heads > can > > represent the elements). This tied in Atruaghin clans, fey, druids, > > werewolves and other nature-oriented creatures that would > oppose Tiamat, > and > > her ally Set. > > If nature was being corrupted this could draw in > nature-loving immortals > like Terra, Ordana or Zirchev. Many entropics could be > involved in the > corruption of nature. Atzanteoltl, was the corruptor of the > Tiger Clan, and > could take the form of a serpent, since one of his forms > (usually in the HW) > is a feathered serpent, and corrupting various cultures is one of his > specialities. Demogorgon could be another evil lizard > patron. Making up a > new Immortal could work too, as the ones defined in canon are > not the only > ones in existance. In fact, there are definitely some areas > that were left > out and could use filling in. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 16:23:01 -0600 From: Stone Marshall Subject: Re: Davania cities on thib's map If its ok with everyone on the list, I would like to lay claim to an area in Davina. I am working on a Pachydermion civilization and would like to place itin the southern aryptian desert, north of the Ice Peaks. There is a river running through that area and lots of grasslands. IMO this would be a good place for the pachydermions. If anyone has any good ideas feel free to send them my way. I was thinking of a warrior/cleric society. Any ideas anyone? > From: Geoff Gander > Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Davania cities on thib's map > Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:32:59 -0500 > > Thib wrote: > > >all the cities/towns come from Geoff's own map of the region. > >I just zoomed on them as i zoomed on the rest of the continent.But they > were > >present on Geoff's maps. > >I think he has some infos on several of them (Izondian Deep) but as for > the > >others , he's the only one to know... > > That's pretty much the story. There are writeups on Shawn's site > concerning the cities of the Adakkian Sound region (about 25 locations in > all), and the first edition of the DM's Guide to Davania (also in the > Vaults) has writeups for all the Cestian locations (including PWA-style > entries for the four kingdoms of Cestia). I had every intention of doing > writeups for the other locations, but never had the time to get around to > them. Now, I'm inclined to leave the remainder as a blank slate for other > people to fill in as desired for their own campaigns, although Ethan has > done a lot of work in the Vulcanian regions, and Francesco has done work > in the Izondian/far northwest region. > > Geoff > > -- > Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 > Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer > Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy > au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 14:26:38 -0800 From: macnerd Subject: Re: Reptile God/Immortal? Well the whole Viper thing was mainly about the Viper/Tiger clan in Atr. Clans. The map says one thing, but the booklet says another. IMC, I use Viper because: (1) Tiger would not fit in the climate/region (2) Contrasting RW Aztecs, for which Tiger/Viper clan mimics in part, there were NO tigers. (3) Goes with the whole feather-serpent thing (4) Players see map, and seldom read booklet. (5) Map consistantly uses Viper theme, and booklet is confusing. (6) Viper theme is just more secretive, dangerous, while tiger is an shows more overt raw strength and power. Jumping off into Karameikos... all the clans have some blood, bone, war symbol, but then one clans stands out to make a difference, Viper. Hmmm.... Interesting... Hmm.... > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On > Behalf Of Agathokles > Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 10:12 AM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Reptile God/Immortal? > > > Andrew Theisen wrote: > > > > As for your discussions of the Viper Clan- as someone else > noted, they were > > changed to the Tiger Clan in the gazetteer of the region, > but there is no > > reason that there can't be more "clans" than the ones > presented in the > > Atruaghin Gazetteer- there is certainly room for them on the ground > > Uhm, I thought he was speaking of the Viper goblins in B10... > -- > > > Giampaolo Agosta > > > agathokles@libero.it > agosta@elet.polimi.it > http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 14:32:58 -0800 From: macnerd Subject: Re: Hexagrams I am very impressed. I want to make templates available for others. They main reason is to: (1) allow others to create cool maps of different regions. (2) allow people to make custom maps (add a city here...there...) - Joaquin > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On > Behalf Of Ricardo Matheus > Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 8:21 AM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Hexagrams > > > I use Photoshop to make my maps and I have templates of every > tile I used. > As for the coastlines and rivers I just draw them freehand on > a new layer. > > Darkblood > The Mystara Map Navigator: www.geocities.com\darkblood18\ > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 14:33:12 -0800 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Blackmoor Errata > >We are now discussing airplanes in Mystara. The > conversation was to talk about Water power and Steam > power, and now we're jumping toward Airplanes. Guys, > you need to chill for a minute. > > > ... nah, I'll drop it. ;-) But there are airplaines in Mystara ;) Well at least gnomish ones, which I for one want to work out how to use. I'll get back to this when I read Top Balasta (which I now own). > >First of all, the reason for technology in a world > full of magic is because people who perform magic, > clerical or non clerical, are a minority on > mystara... Yep, but they are the minority that count. As soon as someone gets into some position of power they are likely to have acess to somebodys magic and are thus going to be less concerned with tech stuff for the little people (unless they are real do gooders) Even if they were, whos going to develop it, not the mages, they'll just use magic to get the job done and any self respecting interlectual would learn magic first, it's just easier that way. And once you can do it with magic why do it another way. In all probability most magic is bassed on some scientific principle, and they are probally researched as technology is but the application feeding back into magic to make better magic. Really good magic can help people as much as technology so I would see the world taking that direction first. > > meaning the rest want to feel the sensation of > flying or wanting to have there lives a little > easier without, or the fact that the armies of the > known world want to fight in battles with new > techniques or weapons that would lessen the amount > of casualties on their side of the battlefield. IMC I have a rule. Given both sides in a battle have mages the gentlemanly thing to do is to refrain from using high level offencive magic. The high level mages cancel each other out and would just cause mass distruction on both sides normal soldiers. The exeptions are when one side is far superior in high level magic, and usually the mages will fight each other first, or when one side is for some reason crazed. Defencive magic and aiding magic is all right because it is not the mage killing them. It is in many ways like a knights code where bows and such were seen as ungentlemanly. If someone wants to fly they hire a mage to cast fly on them. If someone wants a extrodinary battlefeild weapon they hire a mage to create one (mage's bring the *only* real interlectuals about IMC at least) and it is unlikely that they will create only non-magical things as they will not be needed for it. Why not augment it with magic and make it more powerful. The mage is not concerned with it being non-magical. Non-mage made machines of war will not advance at any real speed as the people designing them are not going to be the best interlectuals as they all become mages. I think u get the rational. > >What we are discussing is that someday within a few > years time, Watermills will be discovered, bring > forth the first steps toward industrialization, but > going from Waterpowered mills to Waterpowered > Textile looms is has at least a span of more than a > 100 years apart. What you need to realize is that > the wheels of progress will continue reguardless of > what you may think, The eastern world had many of the technologies far before the west but the west had the way of thinking that the east did not. It didn't really occur to the east to industrialize or mass produce things. It is entirely possible that such thoughts just don't exist in mystara, and if PC's try they fail because nobody else thinks like that. In a magical world it is even less likely as there is already an easy way to do things, just not as efficent as today. Learning and the distribution of knowledge are still not really happening in Mystara as they would need to to change the world to something we would recognise. Without a number of good printing presses (which I don't believe magical infomation can be printed on) this is not possible. As long as people do not want to share their ideas with many others (which I have as one of the precepts of the mage class, after all you could be sharing your assets with your eniemy) then this cannot bring real change. What brings about change is as much changes in mindset as in technology. Most great advances involved big changes in society and as long as society remains resistant to that change it will not happen. > I'm not saying the wheels of progress don't > continue. Just that due to > many factors, only a few I mentioned, they won't > continue as fast as on > earth. Also I expect that there are a lot of > alternate technologies that > we never pursued or developed fully. On Mystara they > could be quite common. agreed. > Why? All the smart kids are in those new public > schools (in Darokin at > least) and they are apprenticing to become > scientists. I'd want to learn both... wouldn't you? This is given that magic is "REAL" not just imagined, and society knows this is so. If the society thought otherwise (like in the RW) then you would have this case. > And when people stop using magic, does it die? > When people stop worshipping immortals... well, > anyone read "Small Gods"? WotI does actually state that this does happen. An imortal has to have followers (I would say believers) and if they don't they start fading. I really liked that especally with regard to small gods. Although it must be noted that belief is not the singular measure of power. In top balasta the planes bolster the defence already provided by other flyers. Gnomes just have a pre-disposition for technology that humans on Mystara don't. To summarise. It is IMO easy to keep tech levels low for a long time. Magic might evolve but given the workings of mages this could be very erattic. The Tech that does exist will not be seen as that desireable ("are you sure this thig is safe?") compared with the altenatives and the proliferation of knowledge is not encoraged and so fast progress is unlikely. Sorry for the delay on commenting, I've been busy. Thought I'd throw in my 2 cents, hope its interesting (and doesn't offend). Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 14:37:12 -0800 From: macnerd Subject: Re: Atruaghin Plateau shrinkage? I would be most interested. It seems very cool. I thought of an idea. How about when you get onto the plateau, everything is bigger, for some bizarre magical reason. As the tribes grow, there always seems to be enough grazing room. It's kinda of like the Doctor Who TARDIS thing. Small on the outside, big on the inside. - Joaquin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 14:51:22 -0800 From: macnerd Subject: Any D&D3E for Fey? I was wondering if there is any 3E or d20 material for playing a PC with Brownie, Centaur, Dryad, Faun, Hsiao, Leprechaun, Pixie, Pooka, Sidhe, Sprite, Treant, Wood Imp, and Woodrake. Also, is there anything on the Coin-sith? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 15:14:35 -0800 From: Mike Harvey Subject: Re: Atruaghin Plateau shrinkage? It's a Plateau of Hefty Capacity? If you take a Bag of Holding onto the plateau, it creates a space-time rift of truly horrifying proportions! :-P Mike ---- Original Message ---- From: macnerd@REALMSPACE.COM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM, Subject: Re: Atruaghin Plateau shrinkage? Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 14:37:12 -0800 > I would be most interested. It seems very cool. > > I thought of an idea. How about when you get onto the plateau, > everything is bigger, for some bizarre magical reason. As the > tribes grow, there always seems to be enough grazing room. > > It's kinda of like the Doctor Who TARDIS thing. Small on the > outside, big on the inside. > > - Joaquin > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > -- Mike Harvey -- Beaverton, OR http://members.dsl-only.net/~bing/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 19:42:07 -0500 From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Davania cities on thib's map On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Stone Marshall wrote: > If its ok with everyone on the list, I would like to lay claim to an area in > Davina. I am working on a Pachydermion civilization and would like to place > itin the southern aryptian desert, north of the Ice Peaks. There is a river If this is where I think it is, the area has already been claimed by Alex's P-Gnomes and Divergans. Ethan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 19:03:43 -0800 From: Jordi Castille Subject: Re: Davania cities on thib's map SteelAngel wrote: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Stone Marshall wrote: > If its ok with everyone on the list, I would like to lay claim to an area in > Davina. I am working on a Pachydermion civilization and would like to place > itin the southern aryptian desert, north of the Ice Peaks. There is a river If this is where I think it is, the area has already been claimed by Alex's P-Gnomes and Divergans. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Why not put Pachydermion in the Southern Jungle Coast Region, North of Nagpa Point. Pachydermion in the desert, wouldn't south right, putting in a jungle region would be better. Jordi Knight of Darokin --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 19:09:19 -0800 From: Jordi Castille Subject: Re: Atruaghin Plateau shrinkage? macnerd wrote: I would be most interested. It seems very cool. I thought of an idea. How about when you get onto the plateau, everything is bigger, for some bizarre magical reason. As the tribes grow, there always seems to be enough grazing room. It's kinda of like the Doctor Who TARDIS thing. Small on the outside, big on the inside. - Joaquin Autruaghin's magic might have worked that way when he became an immortal, but I doubt it if i know something about Native American Culture, The children of the Horse are basically Nomadic always following the Buffalo, just like the Souix Nation, while the Children of the Bear, have their homes on the Cliffs, and the Eagle clan(I think)Live in Longhouse, all of these tribes use as little space as possible to live on in order to maximize their resources in the Autruaghin Plateau region. Jordi, Knight of Darokin --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 19:31:09 -0800 From: Jordi Castille Subject: Re: Blackmoor Errata I have to say that Mystara Technologies levels are moving slowly, I know that the strangest thing about Mystara is the absence of the Printing press, Town crier were in every town even Thyatis. The Printing Press is one major advancement in the history of mankind to say they don't want to create that is to say that they don't want to advance ideas, Scrolls of Communication will still continue to be used by world leaders as alternate to phones But the printing press would be a new way to spread ideas throughout the city, to spread news. but this is up to every individual GM. As far as the Gnome of Serraine, they use airplanes without any magic, and the need for Technology in Mystara did get a huge jump start thanks to the Week without Magic, and in subsequent Years with the Day of Dread. They may have warning of when it might happen, might irratate some people into inventing a solution, you never know Jordi, Knight of Darokin. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 00:09:15 -0400 From: Just Another Grue Subject: Re: Blackmoor Errata Can you think of any good reason why certain organizations might want to prevent the spread of ideas? How about to keep ignorant people ignorant and controllable? How about to prevent or at least forestall the spread of heresy? Maybe printing presses can be like the infamous Aurora space/airplane; a secret instrument only of the established order. Societies of mages could use it, clerics could use it, maybe the upper echelons of governments. But let a newspaper *gasp* be born? Look at what the printing press has done for every populist revolutionary movement in the civilized world. America. Europe. China. It lowers the cost and increases the availability of books. This lets any literate person become an insurgent, instigator and heretic. However it's a great idea for a campaign. Especially if the people are using printing presses against your name-level PCs who happen to think they're doing a wonderful job of running their dominion. I mean, it was bad enough that anyone with a brain can learn how to read and count these days. Ah, for the bye-gone days when the king-priests controlled all knowledge from the top of their ziggurats. *sigh* ;) mystaraknight@YAHOO.COM wrote: > I have to say that Mystara Technologies levels are moving slowly, I know that the strangest thing about Mystara is the absence of the Printing press, Town crier were in every town even Thyatis. The Printing Press is one major advancement in the history of mankind to say they don't want to create that is to say that they don't want to advance ideas, Scrolls of Communication will still continue to be used by world leaders as alternate to phones > > But the printing press would be a new way to spread ideas throughout the city, to spread news. but this is up to every individual GM. As far as the Gnome of Serraine, they use airplanes without any magic, and the need for Technology in Mystara did get a huge jump start thanks to the Week without Magic, and in subsequent Years with the Day of Dread. They may have warning of when it might happen, might irratate some people into inventing a solution, you never know > > Jordi, > > Knight of Darokin. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 05:35:27 +0100 From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Blackmoor Errata ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordi Castille" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 4:31 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor Errata > As far as the Gnome of Serraine, they use airplanes without any magic, Erm, actually magic is what powers them. They use the magical energy of fire spells as fuel which is converted to thrust. see PC2 p62 for the details. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 21:13:57 -0800 From: Jordi Castille Subject: Re: Black powder , Magic and Technology oh my! Chris Furneaux wrote: I would rule IMC that magic light spells are just too... well... magical. The problem with the light spell is while it does provide a nice globe of light that you can see the things in but it has an unnaturally steep falloff at 60 feet which makes crossing that boundary more dangerous then with torchlight because there is a second where the eye has to adjust to the sudden change, and thus a prime oppitunity for lurkers in shadows. I would also rule that it does not cast shadows in a natural way and these two facts combined make people uncomfortable with magic illuminating their streets. Extending this to animals as well, horses that are unsued to the light would be easily spooked and behave in a frighterned manner. These factors mean that where mages rule it could go either way. Some may want to have their city illuminated by magic at all times, others may just prefer the natural light and atmosphere it gives. Perhaps they may want to be able to come and go unseen more easily. I might suggest that Glanti City is illuminated this way and every year now when the lights go out on the DoD there is a big festival the next night for the lighting of the city where a parade mrches through town as the steets are illuminated again. I would also like to point out that Continual light does not have to be cast on anything it can just be cast at a particulay place making theft imposible, and the only way to remove it being the DoD or a mage of sufficent level to dispell them. Thus no streetlights but lit streets. What do you think of this as an idea? Chris. __________________________________________________ Sound fine and Dandy, For Glantri City it would be a party, even for the men who live in the Boldavia Principality. as for Thyatis, they would have to rehire Mages to fix their DoD problem, and with their money problems, i have to say, while for Mirros, it would be a class project for those of the Karameikan School of Magecraft as part of their Graduation exams. Darokin's city of Darokin and Corunglain and Selenica, would recharge them until they find a new way to permanent fix there problem either with an magical light products created by Aengmor and the Shadow's Elf or with the creation of gas lights, like they would most likely do in Athenos. Jordi, Knight of Darokin. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 21:27:35 -0800 From: Jordi Castille Subject: Re: Reptile God/Immortal? Gilles Leblanc wrote: What happened is that GAZ14 ( The Atruaghin Clans ) and the almanacs list the Atzanteolt worshiping clan as the Tiger Clan. But the map that comes whit GAZ14 is all screwed up. For one thing the Tiger Clan is named Viper clan on the map and it's villages as name suggestive to vipers. Secondly I beleive there may be an error concerning the placement of the bear, elk and viper ( tiger ) clan on the map or an error in the GAZ as it states that the bear clan gets attacked by the Tiger clan since they are north of them. It doesnt mention this as clearly for the elk clan. On the map the elk clan is north of the tiger clan and the bear clan north of the elk clan so the elk clan should be more in the line of fire than the bear. I have ruled IMC that since the bear clan live near the plateau's edge or sometimes on ledge and since they have the world elevator they are still a more accessible target for the tiger clan than the bear clan. I also use the map but replace the viper clan with the bear clan. Also the Turtle clan description does not make a fuss about Tiger clan attacks while the bear clan does. This is weird since the turtle clan is the closest to the tiger clan and the only 2 clans not on the plateau are the turtle and tiger clan. This leads me to beleive that the turtle clan or getting the brunt of the attacks of the tiger clan since they don't have to do any climbing or such to get to them. ================================================ I would have to say that one of the reason the Tiger Clan was also called the Viper clan was because of Darokin Explorer captured in the Battle of Tenobar who survived torture and Escaped to describe the viper pits that were used to sacrifice victims to Atzanteotl, The map was suppose to give you the illusion it was printed by Darokinian Cartographers. My Theory what the Tiger Clain didn't fight the Turtle Clan that much is because the Tiger clan immortal Daniel Tigerstrips has an eternal hatred toward the Bear Clan's Immortal Patron, Description of their battle has been told in GAZ14. Tiger Clan hates the Bear Clan alot but are willing to fight with the Elk Clan and the Turtle clan as well, it's just that i think the Monkey Tribe and the Parrot tribe find it more lucrative to raid Darokin then to fight the Turtle clans, who are protected by their own immortal who was the lover of Autruaghin, and they might not want to anger Autruaghin at this moment in time. Just a thought, Jordi Castille, Knight of Darokin --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 21:38:53 -0800 From: Jordi Castille Subject: Re: Blackmoor Errata I would love to see the looks on their faces when the Week Without Magic happened or the First Day of Dread, LMAO Paul George Dooley wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordi Castille" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 4:31 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor Errata > As far as the Gnome of Serraine, they use airplanes without any magic, Erm, actually magic is what powers them. They use the magical energy of fire spells as fuel which is converted to thrust. see PC2 p62 for the details. Paul --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 00:11:10 -0600 From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: Atruaghin Plateau shrinkage? > I thought of an idea. How about when you get onto the plateau, > everything is bigger, for some bizarre magical reason. As the > tribes grow, there always seems to be enough grazing room. > > It's kinda of like the Doctor Who TARDIS thing. Small on the > outside, big on the inside. It's not an outrageous idea. The Ethengar steppes are interlaced with the Spiritworld. Plus the whole "big area in a tiny space" was done with for the faerie court in Tall Tales of the Wee Folk, wasn't it? Eric Anondson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 22:49:44 -0800 From: macnerd Subject: Re: Blackmoor Errata I think when thinking about technology, you have to think about four paths: (1) one purely technological, (2) one completely magical, (3) one technological fueled by magic, and (4) one magical that requires technology. We see a some of #4 in Forgotten Realms, but #1 is too familiar, and #3 is popular in post Blackmoor technology. Another concept is to map out what technologies depend on other technologies. Some inventions may never happen because its prerequisite technology was never developed. Magical developments can replace technology. Movable type can be replaced by some sort of copy spell. Without the invention of movable-type, other inventions might not exist, like more advanced legal systems and types of government, the spread of literature will never happen and the Age of Information will be missed. The printing-press can exist in a form of magic, but still it'll be information for the classes, not the masses. The main reason, is unlike technology, where anyone can use, magic is not the same case. It seems that gnomes are still the exception. They are able to invent stuff from the understanding of magic combined with technology. Though, their inventions never quite work... Also, FYI, the mention of ziggurats reminds me of Babylonia. They actually had movable type before Gutenberg, 3000 years before Christ. They would have clay tables, and take a roller to roll scriptures on the tablets. The next people were the Koreans, then Gutenberg. And on the subject of movable type, books should realistically be costing like $2000 gold. If adventurers find books, that could be worth a fortune assuming they can find someone to buy the books. It costs a lot of money to pay a scribe to copy books. Though through use of magic, and a scribes guild that uses such spells, but cost could be driven down to like $200 - $500 perhaps, depending of rarity of content. - Joaquin PS - Mystara books are so expensive on E-Bay, I wonder if a scribe made each one!!!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On > Behalf Of Just Another Grue > Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 8:09 PM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor Errata > > > Can you think of any good reason why certain organizations > might want to > prevent the spread of ideas? > > How about to keep ignorant people ignorant and controllable? > > How about to prevent or at least forestall the spread of heresy? > > Maybe printing presses can be like the infamous Aurora > space/airplane; a > secret instrument only of the established order. Societies of mages > could use it, clerics could use it, maybe the upper echelons of > governments. But let a newspaper *gasp* be born? > > Look at what the printing press has done for every populist > revolutionary movement in the civilized world. America. Europe. China. > It lowers the cost and increases the availability of books. This lets > any literate person become an insurgent, instigator and heretic. > > However it's a great idea for a campaign. Especially if the people are > using printing presses against your name-level PCs who happen to think > they're doing a wonderful job of running their dominion. > > I mean, it was bad enough that anyone with a brain can learn > how to read > and count these days. Ah, for the bye-gone days when the king-priests > controlled all knowledge from the top of their ziggurats. *sigh* ;) > > mystaraknight@YAHOO.COM wrote: > > >I have to say that Mystara Technologies levels are moving > slowly, I know that the strangest thing about Mystara is the > absence of the Printing press, Town crier were in every town > even Thyatis. The Printing Press is one major advancement in > the history of mankind to say they don't want to create that > is to say that they don't want to advance ideas, Scrolls of > Communication will still continue to be used by world leaders > as alternate to phones > > > >But the printing press would be a new way to spread ideas > throughout the city, to spread news. but this is up to every > individual GM. As far as the Gnome of Serraine, they use > airplanes without any magic, and the need for Technology in > Mystara did get a huge jump start thanks to the Week without > Magic, and in subsequent Years with the Day of Dread. They > may have warning of when it might happen, might irritate some > people into inventing a solution, you never know > > > >Jordi, > > > >Knight of Darokin. > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > > > >******************************************************************** > >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 22:53:45 -0800 From: macnerd Subject: Re: Reptile God/Immortal? Well. Also, they'd have to face the wrath of the Kangaroo tribe, the Squirrel Tribe, the Koala Tribe, and the Panda tribe. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On > Behalf Of Jordi Castille > Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 9:28 PM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Reptile God/Immortal? > > > Gilles Leblanc wrote: > What happened is that GAZ14 ( The Atruaghin Clans ) and the > almanacs list > the Atzanteolt worshiping clan as the Tiger Clan. But the map > that comes > whit GAZ14 is all screwed up. For one thing the Tiger Clan is > named Viper > clan on the map and it's villages as name suggestive to > vipers. Secondly I > beleive there may be an error concerning the placement of the > bear, elk and > viper ( tiger ) clan on the map or an error in the GAZ as it > states that the > bear clan gets attacked by the Tiger clan since they are > north of them. It > doesnt mention this as clearly for the elk clan. On the map > the elk clan is > north of the tiger clan and the bear clan north of the elk > clan so the elk > clan should be more in the line of fire than the bear. I have > ruled IMC that > since the bear clan live near the plateau's edge or sometimes > on ledge and > since they have the world elevator they are still a more > accessible target > for the tiger clan than the bear clan. I also use the map but > replace the > viper clan with the bear clan. Also the Turtle clan > description does not > make a fuss about Tiger clan attacks while the bear clan > does. This is weird > since the turtle clan is the closest to the tiger clan and > the only 2 clans > not on the plateau are the turtle and tiger clan. This leads > me to beleive > that the turtle clan or getting the brunt of the attacks of > the tiger clan > since they don't have to do any climbing or such to get to them. > > ================================================ > > I would have to say that one of the reason the Tiger Clan was > also called the Viper clan was because of Darokin Explorer > captured in the Battle of Tenobar who survived torture and > Escaped to describe the viper pits that were used to > sacrifice victims to Atzanteotl, The map was suppose to give > you the illusion it was printed by Darokinian Cartographers. > > > > My Theory what the Tiger Clain didn't fight the Turtle Clan > that much is because the Tiger clan immortal Daniel > Tigerstrips has an eternal hatred toward the Bear Clan's > Immortal Patron, Description of their battle has been told in > GAZ14. Tiger Clan hates the Bear Clan alot but are willing to > fight with the Elk Clan and the Turtle clan as well, it's > just that i think the Monkey Tribe and the Parrot tribe find > it more lucrative to raid Darokin then to fight the Turtle > clans, who are protected by their own immortal who was the > lover of Autruaghin, and they might not want to anger > Autruaghin at this moment in time. > > Just a thought, > > Jordi Castille, > > Knight of Darokin > > > > --------------------------------- > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 1 Apr 2002 to 2 Apr 2002 (#2002-90) *************************************************************