Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 2 Apr 2002 to 3 Apr 2002 (#2002-91) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 04/04/2002, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 20 messages totalling 900 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Davania cities on thib's map (4) 2. A refreshing development (2) 3. Blackmoor Errata 4. Reptile God/Immortal? 5. Ignorance, poverty, isolation and the Renaissance (long) (2) 6. Atruaghin Plateau shrinkage? 7. Magic and Society 8. Week without Magic & Day of Dread (2) 9. Techno-Magical List (was RE: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor Errata) 10. North Western Skothar in 24 miles per hex is mapped!!! 11. Beagle Effect (was RE: [MYSTARA] Ignorance, poverty, isolation and the Renaissance (long)) 12. Looking for an Old File (2) 13. VS: [MYSTARA] Magic and Society ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 02:25:38 -0600 From: Stone Marshall Subject: Re: Davania cities on thib's map that figures...im still working on a pachydermion civilization...anyone have any ideas where to put them? > From: SteelAngel > Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Davania cities on thib's map > Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 19:42:07 -0500 > > On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Stone Marshall wrote: > > > If its ok with everyone on the list, I would like to lay claim to an > area in > > Davina. I am working on a Pachydermion civilization and would like to > place > > itin the southern aryptian desert, north of the Ice Peaks. There is a > river > > > If this is where I think it is, the area has already been claimed by > Alex's P-Gnomes and Divergans. > > > Ethan > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 15:07:11 +0300 From: Ville V Lahde Subject: A refreshing development Two days ago, when our D&D group was playing, the PCs made a surprising decision. During the course of the diplomatic travels of the X10 module, they suddenly decided to split the group momentarily, one group continuing to Karameikos from Rockhome, the other one leaving for Northern Reaches via the Evekarr Pass. It was an interesting moment, as at first the players debated whether playing separately would be a good idea (especially since a 2 year period - in real time - of playing "solos") is just behind us. But then they stood back and decided to look at the situation from the viewpoint of the PCs themselves. As they saw that splitting the group would help their diplomatic and military endeavours, they decided that this was what the PCs would do, even though it will complicate the actual roleplaying a bit. This felt really good, actually, to see the group approaching the game by disregarding practical matters in favour of the feeling of "being there". Cool. I'm looking towards the challenge of fitting together the timelines of the general war, general political developments, and the two PC timelines. Well, this should take just a few sessions before they gather together again, but the Karameikan civil war and my own campaign-specific Ethengarian civil war will take place in this period. Guess how the two PCs decided to leave for Karameikos? One of them is a high-level cleric (Patriarch) with a stronghold in Krakataos. The another one, a thief, quaffed a potion of diminution (saved for years), jumped into the cleric's bag of holding - and off they went via a Word of Recall. Luckily enough the thief didn't have another bag of holding on at that time... Ville ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:20:43 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Re: Blackmoor Errata -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of macnerd Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 1:50 AM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor Errata > I think when thinking about technology, you have to think about four paths: > (1) one purely technological, > (2) one completely magical, > (3) one technological fueled by magic, and > (4) one magical that requires technology. I like this break down of technology use, I want to use it in my revised Mystara Tech Level 1,000 AC list if you don't mind. George ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 07:26:28 -0800 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Reptile God/Immortal? At 09:12 PM 4/2/02 +0000, you wrote: > What happened is that GAZ14 ( The Atruaghin Clans ) and the almanacs list > the Atzanteolt worshiping clan as the Tiger Clan. Another place errors might have crept in is simply due to the fact that the patron of the Tiger clan is Danel Tigerstripes (a former member of the clan raised to Immortality) but the major patron (Danel's boss, as it were) is Atzanteotl- an Immortal who is related to the winged viper (it is one of his forms, and his creation). I imagine that may be where the error comes from as well. Of course, as I noted elsewhere, I've created my own Viper Clan of sorts, that are also located in that region... > Secondly I beleive there may be an error concerning the placement of the bear, elk >and viper ( tiger ) clan on the map or an error in the GAZ as it states that the > bear clan gets attacked by the Tiger clan since they are north of them. It > doesnt mention this as clearly for the elk clan. On the map the elk clan is > north of the tiger clan and the bear clan north of the elk clan so the elk > clan should be more in the line of fire than the bear. I have ruled IMC that > since the bear clan live near the plateau's edge or sometimes on ledge and > since they have the world elevator they are still a more accessible target > for the tiger clan than the bear clan. IMC, I determined that the Bear Clan once had cities on the ground around the plateau (like similar RW pueblo cities like Chaco Canyon, that predated the pueblo peoples cliff dwelling lifestyle) but that wars with the Tiger Clan drove them up to the sides of the plateau. I think I may have also placed some Elk Clan villages on the ground around the plateau... don't recall offhand. > Also the Turtle clan description does not make a fuss about Tiger clan attacks >while the bear clan does. This is weird since the turtle clan is the closest to >the tiger clan and the only 2 clans not on the plateau are the turtle and tiger >clan. This leads me to beleive that the turtle clan or getting the brunt of the >attacks of the tiger clan since they don't have to do any climbing or such to get >to them. For my part, I placed the Viper clan between the Turtle and Tiger clans. Both Tiger and Turtle stay away from the largely xenophobic and dangerous Vipers. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:51:40 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Ignorance, poverty, isolation and the Renaissance (long) -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Just Another Grue Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 11:09 PM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor Errata > Can you think of any good reason why certain organizations might want to > revent the spread of ideas? Here are a few reasons you might want to contain the spread of ideas/knowledge/information : 1-Because it will loosen your iron grip on power. 2-It encourages people to think, learn and question authority. 3-As long as people are poor, uneducated and don't know about the rest of the world, they can be kept poor, ignorant and isolated from others, thus making it harder or impossible for them to : A-Know that there are better ways of doing things or ways of living, B-Realize that things don't have to be as they are and can change for the better, and C-Organize themselves to change things/the status quo. >> From what I have read, the Mystaran nations of the Old World are remarkably enlightened in the sense that I have found no nation that keeps its people to a level of ignorance, poverty or oppression beyond the basic level found in an Iron/Medieval age society. Yet there are some place that are dark, dictatorial and oppressive where its leaders keep their people in ignorance, poverty and isolation. This makes for interesting adventuring possibilities in a campaign such as: 1-The PCs try to impose the above on a newly conquered population and meet resistance, 2-The PCs must deal/survive in a society under oppression by its rulers 3-The PCs try to improve the conditions The Black Eagle Barony in Karameikos (1,000 AC) is an obvious candidate, although I am sure there are some other good examples around. On a different note I would like to expand on a few related subjects. Historically, the lack of an uneducated, ignorant, poor , isolated lower class was a good thing for absolute rulers before the Renaissance as most people in Europe, China, Asia and Russia (large City-states or territories ) where serfs or slaves which formed the bulk of the population, did all the work, did all the fighting and dieing and toiled for their masters. It was the richer aristocracy and nobles that benefited from them, and they always had a better education, health & living conditions, protection (legal and physical) and enjoyed life . This state of affairs was great for the rich but horrible for the poor. This is a time when the rich where highly educated (for the time) and did all in its power to keep its people hungry (so they wouldn't have the energy for revolt), poor (so they can keep the wealth for themselves and cut down on competition), uneducated (nothing is more dangerous then a peasant with an education), ignorant (so that they don't get any silly ideas about things like freedom, liberty, human rights, fair government and their ancient equivalents), and isolated (so they wont find out about places where people have a better standard of living, and want to try to achieve the same). To address the subject heading of this email: 1-Ignorance : An uneducated populace can never be a productive one, as the best they can do is manual labor, since the skills & knowledge for anything else is beyond them. 2-Poverty: The lack of money means a populace can not afford adequate food, housing or materials necessary to lead a happy and productive lifestyle. 3-Isolation: Not knowing about other people leads populaces to remain insular and small minded when they don't have contact with other people and places. The main dived between the rich and the poor was their level of education above all else. This state of affairs continued for centuries (in various forms) until the Renaissance. For many reasons this was an era of great changes ,and two of the most fundamental changes (in my view) was the creation of a growing middle class and of the printing press. This lead among many things to the establishment of a large, prosperous, educated class of workers and merchants. The printing press in particular was responsible for the spread of old and new ideas quickly across nations, and lead to many revolutions and innovations in many fields of knowledge as people where able to read about what other people have done, try new things, and communicate their findings/ideas to others, not to mention it allowed for a wide spread increase in communication between people and nations. Only when people started prospering (their living conditions went above mere survival), start getting educated (at private places or by tutors), started expanding their knowledge and skills (by trade, travel, research, inventions..), and living under a strong central government (the rise of city-states lead to the creation of nations) did the economies/production of these places increase as more wealth was created. A mayor factor was that the concept of wealth changed during this time, from one of hording (keep all the money in the Kingdoms treasure and don't do anything with it) to one of investing (use money to create more production/trade ). This was such a radical change in the concept of wealth that those nations that where able to adapt to it (like the Italian city-states) became very prosperous and influential over those places that didn't adapt as quickly. This in contrast to the levels of wealth found by city-states and kingdoms in the Middle Ages, that where limited by their exploitation of their workforce (the serfs and peasants), the lack of a mobile and educated populace (poor, ignorant and isolated), the lack of interest in exploration, science, trade and commerce (discourage by the Church I should add) and the use of wealth for personal gain (instead of inventing in new ways of creating wealth). I of course am simplifying many things here to save space. (G) I find that many nations of Mystara circa 1,000 AC are on the threshold of going from Iron Age and Medieval age levels of culture and technology in to a Renaissance age. This looks to me like a great way of moving a campaign along (which is the path I chose) as the PCs are caught up in an age when everything is changing around them and their is a feeling in the air that they are entering a new era. George ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 07:30:10 -0800 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Atruaghin Plateau shrinkage? At 09:18 PM 4/2/02 +0000, you wrote: > I would think that in such a case the map from GAZ14, WoTI, > the PWA's and JA are the more canon one from other older sources which may > suggest a different size. Normally, I'd agree with you. The problem is, the maps for the western regions (Sind and the Plain of Fire, etc.) that appear in later products (notably CoM, but also WotI) use the same basic 24 mile/hex map that originally appeared in the Expert set and the X series of modules. Given that these maps appeared after GAZ14's 8 mile/hex map came out, and didn't correct the situation involving the plateau, it creates a problem with any conversions between map sizes in later products. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 07:39:19 -0800 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Davania cities on thib's map At 02:25 AM 4/3/02 -0600, you wrote: > that figures...im still working on a pachydermion civilization...anyone have > any ideas where to put them? I put large colonies of them on the moon- Patera (the invisible one) a long time ago. Given the seeming commerce between that moon (as seen by the rakasta) and Mystara, it's not inconceivable that Pachys have gotten to Mystara from there (or vice versa). I'd say they'd fit in in the Sind region (lots of area to play with there) or the Serpent Peninsula, or in Skothar. Maybe even place them somewhere on Ochalea if you'd like, or the western reaches of Davania. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:24:58 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Magic and Society I am just reading for the first time the section "Magic" on page 160 of the DMG 3E. It has some good ideas on how the presence of magic can effect a "historical" medieval society. Its worth the read as it relates to the recent Magic and Technology posts here. Can anyone suggest other articles, books, or sources that cover the same subject? George ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 18:04:48 +0000 From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Davania cities on thib's map Stone Marshall wrote: > > that figures...im still working on a pachydermion civilization...anyone have > any ideas where to put them? Of course! According to my own (ahem!) write-up for the Pachydermions these are the climates and terrains for the relevant subraces: Climate Elephant (Sub)Tropical Jungle Mammoth Subarctic Plains Oliphant Temperate/Subarctic Plains Aryptian Savannah Sindhi (Sub)Tropical Jungle Specific areas would be Sind and Serpent Pensinsula for the Sindhi subrace, the Aryptian Savannah for the Aryptians, the Hollow World or the north-western ranges of Brun for the Mammoth and Oliphants. I'd also add that Pachydermions, Sindhi or Aryptians, could be found in other areas of Davania, like the Addakian woods. Considering that the Pachydermions are already assessed as a far-travelling race (at least as far as the moon...), they are certainly appropriate for the Bay of Tangor in Skothar, as the area already includes the Sherkasta (tiger and white tiger) subrace of Rakasta. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 14:50:09 -0400 From: Just Another Grue Subject: Re: Ignorance, poverty, isolation and the Renaissance (long) Exactly the sort of reasoning I was looking for when I asked. So, would it be to the general benefit of Immortals of Entropy who wish to prolong suffering to keep some technologies from proliferating and encourage the use but not the understanding of others? I.E. Printing press bad. Heavy crossbows good. Smoke powder guns good. And would certain preservationist-minded Immortals shape society through clerics to avoid certain technologies all together? Certainly the Elven Immortals have done this. What sort of popular mythologies and faerie tales exist on Mystara that would remind us of the Tower of Babel? The greek guy with the wax wings? The Fall of Atlantis? The Fall of Adam & Eve (for too much knowledge). And other follies of technological prowess coupled with egotism? IMC I play that Blackmoor is generally considered to be totally fictitious by the general populace. Most scholars think there is some connection to fact but think most stories are fanciful. So children grow up learning of the hubris of humanity through the myths of the fall of Blackmoor. Giorgio@ISLA.NET wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On > Behalf Of Just Another Grue > Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 11:09 PM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor Errata > >> Can you think of any good reason why certain organizations might want to >> revent the spread of ideas? >> > > Here are a few reasons you might want to contain the spread of > ideas/knowledge/information :.... > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 15:38:19 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: Week without Magic & Day of Dread I am not very clear on these events. When did/do they take place and what effects do they have? George ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 12:29:48 -0800 From: macnerd Subject: Re: A refreshing development Wow. Your campaign sounds really sucessful. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On > Behalf Of Ville V Lahde > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 4:07 AM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: [MYSTARA] A refreshing development > > > Two days ago, when our D&D group was playing, the PCs made a > surprising > decision. During the course of the diplomatic travels of the > X10 module, > they suddenly decided to split the group momentarily, one > group continuing > to Karameikos from Rockhome, the other one leaving for > Northern Reaches > via the Evekarr Pass. > > It was an interesting moment, as at first the players debated whether > playing separately would be a good idea (especially since a 2 > year period > - in real time - of playing "solos") is just behind us. But then they > stood back and decided to look at the situation from the > viewpoint of the > PCs themselves. As they saw that splitting the group would help their > diplomatic and military endeavours, they decided that this > was what the > PCs would do, even though it will complicate the actual > roleplaying a bit. > This felt really good, actually, to see the group approaching > the game by > disregarding practical matters in favour of the feeling of > "being there". > Cool. > > I'm looking towards the challenge of fitting together the > timelines of the > general war, general political developments, and the two PC timelines. > Well, this should take just a few sessions before they gather together > again, but the Karameikan civil war and my own campaign-specific > Ethengarian civil war will take place in this period. > > Guess how the two PCs decided to leave for Karameikos? One of > them is a > high-level cleric (Patriarch) with a stronghold in Krakataos. > The another > one, a thief, quaffed a potion of diminution (saved for years), jumped > into the cleric's bag of holding - and off they went via a > Word of Recall. > > Luckily enough the thief didn't have another bag of holding on at that > time... > > Ville > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:02:39 -0800 From: macnerd Subject: Techno-Magical List (was RE: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor Errata) Giorgio, I am glad you liked it. :-) I thought of an idea that I hope everyone here will like and can participate in. I will drive this, and post the results. Let's create a purely technological list of inventions from the real and theoretical world. These would be similar to the tech tree used in Civilization, but a bit more advanced. Each invention will have other inventions that could be created based upon the existance of certain inventions. We can also, list a magical equivelency as well. I think there are some major areas in magic that are unexplored like extensively in D&D like: (1) city/land based spells, (2) global based spells, (3) army based spells, (4) advancement spells (commerce, trade, social, etc.). We can even do future tech later like: Anti-Gravity can allow: cloud-cities, flying skiffs, air-space jets Adv. HoverTech (requires Adv VTOL, Adv Rocket) allows: air-speeders, speeder cars, speeder bikes, med. hover-tanks, jumper/bouncer troops Anti-Gav + Adv. Hover allows: Anti-Grav Tanks (huge tonnage), Hvy. Air Speeders, Air-Space Jets with high maneuverability, floater bombs Also, the inventions we think of should include forms of government, social structure, laws, etc. just like in Civilization. I'll kick off some basic inventions: Invention Grants Requirements Magical Equivalent ------------------- ---------------------------- ------------- ---- ------------------------- Stone Working weapons, tools artifice (for +n weapon) Bronze Working better weapons Stone Working artifice (for +n weapon) Iron Working better weapons Bronze Working artifice (for +n weapon) Wheel chariot (with domestication) Wood Crafting Domestication, Anm.* horsemen, elephants Military Structure phalanx (with iron wrk) Wood Crafting bowman, boats, housing attack spells (magic missile) * This is domestication of animals like elephants, horses, lizards, etc. Monster domestication is another matter. - Joaquin [snip header] [snip header] > >I think when thinking about technology, you have to think > about four paths: > > (1) one purely technological, > > (2) one completely magical, > > (3) one technological fueled by magic, and > > (4) one magical that requires technology. > > I like this break down of technology use, I want to use it in > my revised > Mystara Tech Level 1,000 AC list if you don't mind. > > George > [snip footer] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 15:56:19 -0600 From: Stone Marshall Subject: Re: Davania cities on thib's map Ok how about the Bay of Pelatan area...there are plains and forests there. Not to mention an unlisted kingdom. Anybody ? > From: Andrew Theisen > Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Davania cities on thib's map > Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 07:39:19 -0800 > > At 02:25 AM 4/3/02 -0600, you wrote: > >that figures...im still working on a pachydermion civilization...anyone > have > >any ideas where to put them? > > I put large colonies of them on the moon- Patera (the invisible one) a long > time ago. Given the seeming commerce between that moon (as seen by the > rakasta) and Mystara, it's not inconceivable that Pachys have gotten to > Mystara from there (or vice versa). I'd say they'd fit in in the Sind > region (lots of area to play with there) or the Serpent Peninsula, or in > Skothar. Maybe even place them somewhere on Ochalea if you'd like, or the > western reaches of Davania. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 00:05:43 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: North Western Skothar in 24 miles per hex is mapped!!! I am happy to announce that the North Western Part of Skothar is mapped. You can have a quick glinpse at the result at 10% the size of the original (thus avoiding the long downloads). Just look into the Skothar section. It has also been added to the Mystara planet section (now well functionning) and i also corrected some stuff on the Davania page I based my work mainly on the inside cover map of the Master box set, and on the color map in Hollow World (and of course the regions already mapped in 72 miles per hex by Christian Constantin). Thibault Sarlat. ICQ 16622177. homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st Join me at:thibault.sarlat@wanadoo.fr clenarius@hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 14:22:08 -0800 From: The Stalker Subject: Re: Week without Magic & Day of Dread On Wed, 3 Apr 2002 15:38:19 -0500, Giorgio wrote: > I am not very clear on these events. When did/do they take place and what > effects do they have? > These events are connected to the end of the "Wrath of the Immortals" (WOTI) adventure/campaign. The Week without Magic took place in Fall/Winter of the year AC 1009 due to a drain on magic on Mystara. Magic was replenished eventually, though only partially, so every year after that, Mystara suffers another "draining effect" in the form of a day when no magic works. This day is the last day of the year (on the Thyatian calendar), Klarmont 28. There is a little confusion on the matter as the end of WOTI can be understood to mean there were two weeks without magic, but most people agree there was only one. Personally I think there was one Week Without Magic a few months before the end of 1009 as well as a single Day of Dread (day where magic fails) at the very end of that year, but that is merely my own interpretation (and how I played it IMC). There is a lot more to why this happened, of course, but I'm not sure if I should reveal it. It would be major spoiler of some of Mystara's better kept secrets (well, until the end of the Great War at least...). - The Stalker ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 15:00:25 -0800 From: macnerd Subject: Beagle Effect (was RE: [MYSTARA] Ignorance, poverty, isolation and the Renaissance (long)) IMC, I have this sort of magical dissipation sub-quantum temporal field around the Mystaran sphere and solar system called the Beagle-Effect. This field affects the very laws of physics down to the sub-atomic level. It specifically affects forms of energy, such as combustion to radioactive fission/fusion. Essentially, only mechanical contraptions will work. However, any type of energy usage will have problems. The Beagle Effect will cause problems with chemical, gun powder, coal, fossil fuels, nuclear fission, nuclear fusion, etc. The more powerful the energy is, the stronger the effect will be, such as The Great Rain of Fire. Energy derived from kinetic and gravity such as crossbows and catapults, are not affected. Energy from steam or solar energy is not affected as well. Areas weak in magic, have less of an affect on advanced forms of energy usage. As time progresses, the Beagle Effect is less and less (due to the gradual suckage of magic into the artifact under Glantri City). Sometimes even advanced forms of mechanical contraptions fail. This might have something to do with the gremlin factor. There are other chaotic variables that need to be factored in. IMC, I created a pantheon called Mythras, the founding god of the Church of Karameikos. The Immortal Mythras is a consciousness the evolved from the great void, and is completely alien to any other Immortal. The Mythras entity doesn't have a life-force as others understand it, but is able to manipulate raw energy. In doing so, Mythras delivered some artifacts, known as the Seeds of Mythras, which essentially creates a reverse Beagle Effect or a super anti-magic field. Within this anti-magic field, all technological devices will operate normally, without suffering the from the Beagle Effect, in addition to having an anti-magic field. The secret society known as the Preservers use these Seeds in combination with their Blackmoorian technological devices. - Joaquin > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On > Behalf Of Just Another Grue > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 10:50 AM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Ignorance, poverty, isolation and the > Renaissance > (long) > > > Exactly the sort of reasoning I was looking for when I asked. > > So, would it be to the general benefit of Immortals of > Entropy who wish > to prolong suffering to keep some technologies from proliferating and > encourage the use but not the understanding of others? I.E. Printing > press bad. Heavy crossbows good. Smoke powder guns good. And would > certain preservationist-minded Immortals shape society through clerics > to avoid certain technologies all together? Certainly the Elven > Immortals have done this. What sort of popular mythologies and faerie > tales exist on Mystara that would remind us of the Tower of Babel? The > greek guy with the wax wings? The Fall of Atlantis? The Fall of Adam & > Eve (for too much knowledge). And other follies of > technological prowess > coupled with egotism? > > IMC I play that Blackmoor is generally considered to be totally > fictitious by the general populace. Most scholars think there is some > connection to fact but think most stories are fanciful. So > children grow > up learning of the hubris of humanity through the myths of the fall of > Blackmoor. > > > Giorgio@ISLA.NET wrote: [snip footer] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 21:33:45 -0500 From: Baron Greystone Subject: Looking for an Old File Hi, nice to see you all. My name is Shelby Michlin, and I was a member = of the Mystara List years ago. Back in 1995 I contributed an article and = illo on "Titanspace," which was my Mystaran solar system for = Spelljammer. I lost my copies of those two files (along with most = everything else) in a fire a few years ago. I just spotted my illo on = Vaults of Pandius, and I was wondering if any list members might still = have a copy of the text file that went with it? I'd be very grateful if = I could get a copy again! Thanks in advance, Shelby. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 19:28:45 -0800 From: Kar Ess Subject: Re: Looking for an Old File I believe it's here http://www.dnd.starflung.com/planejam.html --- Baron Greystone wrote: > Hi, nice to see you all. My name is Shelby Michlin, and I was a member > of the Mystara List years ago. Back in 1995 I contributed an article and > illo on "Titanspace," which was my Mystaran solar system for > Spelljammer. I lost my copies of those two files (along with most > everything else) in a fire a few years ago. I just spotted my illo on > Vaults of Pandius, and I was wondering if any list members might still > have a copy of the text file that went with it? I'd be very grateful if > I could get a copy again! Thanks in advance, Shelby. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 09:20:30 +0300 From: Saarela Sami Subject: VS: [MYSTARA] Magic and Society This one's my favourite. By Uncle Figgy: http://members.aol.com/essuncius/cover4.htm His site has a other good articles, too, but this one's a real gem. Enjoy, - Sami -----Alkuperäinen viesti----- Lähettäjä: Giorgio [mailto:Giorgio@ISLA.NET] Lähetetty: 3. huhtikuuta 2002 21:25 Vastaanottaja: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Aihe: [MYSTARA] Magic and Society Can anyone suggest other articles, books, or sources that cover the same subject? ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 2 Apr 2002 to 3 Apr 2002 (#2002-91) *************************************************************