Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 4 Apr 2002 to 5 Apr 2002 (#2002-93) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 06/04/2002, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 12 messages totalling 456 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. R: [MYSTARA] Ok, One more try... developing davania (5) 2. on Pelatan, Was: Davania cities on thib's map (4) 3. R: [MYSTARA] on Pelatan, Was: Davania cities on thib's map 4. Pelatan 5. on Pelatan, Was: Davania cities on thib's map ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:39:48 +0200 From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: R: [MYSTARA] Ok, One more try... developing davania All the areas claimed by someone in Davania are just fan fiction, so you really can use any place that you like. But if you want to know in which places no one has written anything yet, afaik there is the entire central region of Davania, Ice Peak, Brasol range, southern Addakian wood. Anyway i planned to develop north western Davania, particullary Pelatan, Izonda and the izondian deep coast and in some far future me too planned to put a civilization of pachidermyons on davania, probably in the southern brasolian wood, very near to korva plain. The korva plain themselves i planned to populate of gyerians and other creatures, but i wrote nothing about it. If you want i can send to you my ideas for nothwestern davania, that i wrote some time ago for the davania group but never send to Shawn's site nor to the MML. bye Francesco Da: "Stone Marshall" A: Data invio: venerdì 5 aprile 2002 2.39 Oggetto: [MYSTARA] Ok, One more try... > Ok, how about west of the Izondian desert and north of the Bay of Peletan? > The Korva Plains would be nice and the area south of the jungles has rivers > and few popluation centers. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 09:12:33 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: on Pelatan, Was: Davania cities on thib's map > > There's one problem with the Pelatan bay region, such as the Pelatan Forest, that land was mentioned in the Q & A section of the voyage of the Princess Ark by Bruce heard as being own by the Amazon Culture, which makes it a Kingdom ruled by women, (Smile Ladies, TSR did want make a land run by women, but no accessories)and if it was writen by Bruce Heard in Dragon Magazine, i would take that information as Official Mystara information.. > Jordi Castille, > Knight of Darokin That's true, but at the same time, nothing was done with it since that time. In the absence of any official campaign material, those sorts of areas are pretty much open to development - that's how it's been before, at any rate. Look at the Adri Varma Plateau, as an example. Bruce had mentioned at one time that the plateau was covered with mutant saguaro cacti, and the orange version of module B3 was set there, yet that didn't stop the more recent creations placed there. I'm not saying there *can't* be an Amazonian culture there - in fact, it would be quite interesting to develop one; just that if someone comes up with a really neat idea for the area, it might enhance the setting considerably. :-) Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 09:32:04 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: R: [MYSTARA] Ok, One more try... developing davania Francesco wrote: > All the areas claimed by someone in Davania are just fan fiction, so you > really can use any place that you like. Just to add emphasis to the above point, I can't stress enough how true that is. Everything we do here is by fans, for fans; we can't, and I don't think we should, ever claim that our creations are definitive, or "the one true campaign setting, which you, Dungeon Master, must use if you wish to run an adventure in Mystara". Personally, I would love it if everyone used my stuff in their campaigns, but I know that's not the case, and instead some people will use materials written by other people on this List, or elsewhere, or they might stick with what TSR originally created. That's individual choice. So, if you want to write something for Cestia, for example, go ahead! Don't think that, just because I already did something for it, that no one else ever can. I'm not going to track you down and invoke unspeakable powers to ensure that your work never sees the light of day. :-) I don't intend this to be the opening shot of a flame war; I merely wanted to state my perspective on this issue. This is a community of creative people who share an admiration for, and an interest in, Mystara. What better respect can we give this fictional world, than to bring our own creative juices to a boil and share our ideas? So, in closing, I would suggest to Stone that he place his pachydermions wherever he darn well pleases, and I would suggest to everyone else who is interested in them to discuss his ideas, help him along, or perhaps to build on them for their own campaigns or their future creations. Be creative; make it cool, make it fun. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 10:15:20 -0500 From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: R: [MYSTARA] Ok, One more try... developing davania On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Geoff Gander wrote: > Just to add emphasis to the above point, I can't stress enough how true > that is. Everything we do here is by fans, for fans; we can't, and I > don't think we should, ever claim that our creations are definitive, or > "the one true campaign setting, which you, Dungeon Master, must use if you > wish to run an adventure in Mystara". This is very true. One of the uniquenesses of the Mystaran group is that we don't have any Canon created by fans. This may or may not be always a good thing, but does allow for a whole lot of developmental freedom. One thing that _is_ canon-like though is the development of fan works that can co-exist. For example, Thinhallan, the Snartans and the P-gnomes are works by Alex and I (and are still mostly in the works :) that all fit together as a unit in southern Davania (my favorite part of Mystara, BTW) This is not to say that these works should always be used together. I wouldn't mind if they weren't. But they can be, and that's what's cool. But as Geoff mentioned, 'claiming' and area just means that you develop an option there. But that is by no means the _only_ option. However, writing over a 'claimed' area does preclude you from fitting into other developed areas in the region well. Its like creating a puzzle piece that fits, but is the wrong color for one group's puzzle. Ethan -- Kinard 210 Linux Guru Webmaster www.steelangel.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:36:08 EST From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: R: [MYSTARA] Ok, One more try... developing davania <<> Just to add emphasis to the above point, I can't stress enough how true > that is.=A0 Everything we do here is by fans, for fans; we can't, and I > don't think we should, ever claim that our creations are definitive, or > "the one true campaign setting, which you, Dungeon Master, must use if you > wish to run an adventure in Mystara". > This is very true. One of the uniquenesses of the Mystaran group is that we don't have any Canon created by fans. This may or may not be always a good thing, but does allow for a whole lot of developmental freedom. One thing that _is_ canon-like though is the development of fan works that can co-exist. For example, Thinhallan, the Snartans and the P-gnomes are works by Alex and I (and are still mostly in the works :) that all fit together as a unit in southern Davania (my favorite part of Mystara, BTW) This is not to say that these works should always be used together. I wouldn't mind if they weren't. But they can be, and that's what's cool. But as Geoff mentioned, 'claiming' and area just means that you develop an option there. But that is by no means the _only_ option. However, writing over a 'claimed' area does preclude you from fitting into other developed areas in the region well. Its like creating a puzzle piece that fits, but is the wrong color for one group's puzzle.>> Yes. Davania is open turf for the taking...and can and should be taken by as= =20 many people as possible. DV is huge and offers ample land for development.=20 The same can be said for Skothar. If someone coincidently picks an area that= =20 my Divergans tread upon, then so be it. I will admit to purposely going way=20 inland for my Divergans. This was more for isolationism than for land=20 monopoly. As Ethan mentioned, he and I have worked in a sense of cooperation to make=20 several of our respective DV cultures. My P-Gnomes (still juggling their rea= l=20 name) are a means to off a buffer zone between the Divergans and his=20 Snartans. BTW Ethan, I really need to wrap that P-Gnomes stuff up. I have al= l=20 the art on harddrive and the details thought out. I need to translate the=20 ideas onto said hardrive and pretty them up. Could you send me the latest=20 version of the Snartans please? Being in central DV, the Divergans have to have neighbors to make their live= s=20 have some purpose and offer some constrains to over expansion beyond their=20 scripted limits. These nieghbors have to be addressed. So please anyone=20 please feel free to drop some cultures in DV. My sanity needs it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:57:51 -0800 From: Jordi Castille Subject: Re: R: [MYSTARA] on Pelatan, Was: Davania cities on thib's map My theory on the Pelatan Nation Valerias, Patroness of love? The idea of an amazon culture of women who fled the Milenians, to become warriors and worshippers of the Immortal of love and romance seems a little farfetch IMC, i would have placed them as Warriors of Vanya, favored warriors of Vanya, or if they are lovers of natural i would have place Terra as there immortal patron. Valerias never occured to me as an immortal patron of the Pelatans. My idea of the Pelatans was a matriarchy of women who's queen could be traced back to the one time the milenian had been dominated by a Queen, which would later leave to a small succession war between her son and her daughter who she chose for the throne for which the milenians weren't willing to accept, and those who supported the daughter of the queen, followed her in exile to the pelatan forest in which they later flourished and became the Pelatan nation of today. Jordi Castille Francesco Defferrari wrote: Well, i made an entry for Pelatan some time ago and you can find it on Shawn's site. Because of the "Official Information" you mentioned i created it as a matriarchy dominated by the church of Valerias... bye Francesco --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 17:40:10 -0500 From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: on Pelatan, Was: Davania cities on thib's map > That's true, but at the same time, nothing was done with it since that > time. In the absence of any official campaign material, those sorts of > areas are pretty much open to development - that's how it's been before, > at any rate. Look at the Adri Varma Plateau, as an example. Bruce had > mentioned at one time that the plateau was covered with mutant saguaro > cacti, and the orange version of module B3 was set there, yet that didn't > stop the more recent creations placed there. > It's true, but still when creating the Adri Varma Plateau we took a special consideration into including heat draining cacti as Bruce had mentioned that the cacti on the map were probably heat draining mutant saguaro and we decided to dump the orange version of B3 as it was never released. You can find info on those cacti under Stolari on the vaults. Their a "clin d'oeuil" to Bruce's Idea but still we devloped the region to our liking. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 18:11:11 -0500 From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: R: [MYSTARA] Ok, One more try... developing davania > I'm not going to track you down and invoke unspeakable powers > to ensure that your work never sees the light of day. :-) > But I will, oh yes I will.... .... .... even now my horrific minions of chaos are working their way through your neighberhood and slithering their dark hideous scaly bodies toward your house........ > I don't intend this to be the opening shot of a flame war; I merely wanted > to state my perspective on this issue. Well to bad, Geoff for it has already started, but I have an impression it won't last long, espacially after my terrible minions of madness have that little "discussion" with you about enforcing my canon material ! ;-) Sorry for this post but I found your post really funny. But I see the problem here with my Mystara being over-populated :) If I were to create material for some area not defined by the TSR, I would be hesitant myself to "overwrite" something that was written before but someone else from the MML. That would'nt stop me from doing it tough. I guess we will start to have some divergeances in the upcomming years has much as already been written on Mystara. I guess someday maybe the Almanac will cover a region that has been defined differently by two poeple on the MML... I was thinking that for a project for myself to flesh out some regions that aren't fleshed out on the vaults instead of creating new stuffs, like more on the Adri Varma, maybe the black mountains, the plain of fire, the nakanande, hyboria, the midlands, etc. Altough I have interesting ideas for all those place my busy schedule currently does not allow me to create much Mystara Material to my regret... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 01:51:03 +0200 From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: Re: on Pelatan, Was: Davania cities on thib's map Da: "Jordi Castille" A: Data invio: venerdì 5 aprile 2002 18.57 Oggetto: Re: [MYSTARA] R: [MYSTARA] on Pelatan, Was: Davania cities on thib's map > My theory on the Pelatan Nation > Valerias, Patroness of love? The idea of an amazon culture of women who fled the Milenians, to become warriors and worshippers of the Immortal of love and romance seems a little farfetch IMC, i would have placed them as Warriors of Vanya, favored warriors of Vanya, or if they are lovers of natural i would have place Terra as there immortal patron. Valerias never occured to me as an immortal patron of the Pelatans. My idea of the Pelatans was a matriarchy of women who's queen could be traced back to the one time the milenian had been dominated by a Queen, which would later leave to a small succession war between her son and her daughter who she chose for the throne for which the milenians weren't willing to accept, and those who supported the daughter of the queen, followed her in exile to the pelatan forest in which they later flourished and became the Pelatan nation of today. > Jordi Castille Well, in my idea Pelatan is not a monolithic theocracy of Valerias, many others gods and goddesses are workshipped, particullary Ordana, Terra and so on... Besides, always in my idea, pelatans are not milenians, they are a bit elven, a bit tanagoro and a bit varellyan. Anyway i used Valerias for two principal reasons: First, Pelatan is very near to the ancient land of the enduks (winged minotaurs now living in the arm of the immortal) and the enduks workshipped Ixion, and Valerias, she being the lover of Ixion. Second, the faith of Valerias was strongened by a prophetess who came from Varellya, according to Bruce timeline of the Varellyan empire (see Shawn's site). In my file anyway Pelatan is not a warrioress' society, but a tollerant and peaceful nation. I don't like Vanya very much, and IMHO she has yet many followers with Heldanns and Thyatians and so on.. i didn't want to make her even more powerful than she already is, at least IMC. bye Francesco ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 17:05:36 +1000 From: Michael Diehm Subject: Pelatan In one of the letters answered by Bruce Heard in the Princess Ark, he mentioned that he believed Pelatan would be the Land of the Amazons. As per the Hollow World Boxed Set, people of Neathar stock migrated to the region circa BC800. I believe this group has decided that they were Varellyans. Whoever they were, I believe they were fleeing Milenian expansion. Possibly, there were many women, as the males had already been slain. This lead to a gender imbalance like in the Soviet Union after WW2 (?). The refugees formed a society dominated by women more out of necessity than anything else. Men were mere drones. So I see the Matriarchy of Pelatan as a potentially unique area of a male-dominated planet (thus far). Cheers _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 02:36:38 -0500 From: David Knott Subject: Re: on Pelatan, Was: Davania cities on thib's map From: "Jordi Castille" > My theory on the Pelatan Nation > Valerias, Patroness of love? The idea of an amazon culture of women > who fled the Milenians, to become warriors and worshippers of the > Immortal of love and romance seems a little farfetch Since one title of Valerias is "Girder-On of Weapons", the idea of her being a patroness of a culture dominated by warrior women is not entirely absurd. Valerias as their patron only becomes a problem if these "M-Amazons" have no men at all among them. If these women serve Valerias, they cannot be the man-haters of the Slayer's Guides -- there would have to be some handsome male humanoids somewhere nearby for their occasional amusement. If they have men of their own, then they might keep them pampered and safe, not allowing them to learn how to fight. One possibility that I toyed with a while back was that of having a tribe of M-Amazons who lived in the outer parts of a forest. In the innermost part of that forest would dwell a tribe of elves with all of the combat talent of the Gentle Folk elves of the Hollow World (but far more interest in magic, art, and life in general). This tribe would have a slight excess of males, who would often sneak out for liaisons with these Amazons (ditto for the Amazons sneaking into the outer regions of the elven territory). The offspring of these mating would always be female humans (Amazons) or (occasionally) male elves. The females would be raised by the Amazons, while the males would be given over to the elves as soon as they could be weaned. It would, of course, be possible to place several such societies in Davania or indeed elsewhere on Mystara. Didn't somebody propose that Zyxl might have a culture dominated by female daimyos and samurai? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 02:38:04 -0500 From: David Knott Subject: Re: on Pelatan, Was: Davania cities on thib's map From: "Jordi Castille" > There's one problem with the Pelatan bay region, such as the > Pelatan Forest, that land was mentioned in the Q & A section of the > voyage of the Princess Ark by Bruce heard as being own by the > Amazon Culture, which makes it a Kingdom ruled by women, > (Smile Ladies, TSR did want make a land run by women, but no > accessories)and if it was writen by Bruce Heard in Dragon > Magazine, i would take that information as Official Mystara information.. Actually, given the size of the area called "Pelatan" on the Master DM book's map, that region undoubtedly contains many peoples, among whom should be a few matriarchal or Amazon-like cultures. However, it is by no means necessary that every culture in the region follow that pattern, any more than it is necessary for the Known World region to be culturally homogeneous. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 4 Apr 2002 to 5 Apr 2002 (#2002-93) *************************************************************