Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 9 Apr 2002 to 10 Apr 2002 (#2002-98) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 11/04/2002, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 18 messages totalling 1391 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. The Monolith Adventure Part IV 2. Need some ideas (3) 3. The Monolith Adventure Part V 4. 2E vs 3E (8) 5. The Monolith Adventure Part VI 6. New RoM Chat 7. Pelatan 8. GAZ 13 The Shadow Elves (long) (2) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:49:11 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: The Monolith Adventure Part IV THE PLOT This adventure is divided into main stages of events. The PCs are led through these stages, hopefully moving towards the climax. In the descriptions of each stages I have included the essential information and some suggestions about the way the events could unfold. But eventually it is up to the DM and the PCs how the adventure forms. I haven't made any suggestions about the length of the stages. The DM may, if she/he wishes, decide when the time for Askold´d ritual is ripe, and make thiss a race against time. Note however, that then the option of "forcing fate" to make the climatic batttle happen is not available to an honest DM - if the PCs are surprisingly clever and resourceful, and manage to stop Askold very early. STAGE I During this stage the PCs get acquainted with the barony of Dimitrov. As mentioned before, there are various ways to bring the PCs into the story. They might arrive in the village of Dimitrov due to some other errand, and be contacted by the Baron there. Or the herald of the Baron might try to contact them elsewhere, perhaps in Specularum. In any case, this section has been written assuming that the PCs are in the service of Dimitrov, but that is not necessary. Information on the village of Dimitrov (and again, sorry for the lack of map): The village is a small community that is centered in the surroundings of the Baron's manor. There are about 200 inhabitants in the area - in the manor live the baron, his family, some of his "court" and a garrison of 30 soldiers. There's also a small harbour in the village, situated in the mouth of the strong river Narodnik. From the harbour ships can move to the sea too. The Northern Road starts from the central marketplace (see above). The local population lives by fishing and growing grain. After each harvest wagons with heavy loads of flour travel to Specularum. The mill is few miles up the river. The people of the village are happy with their life and respect their baron, although the latest events have rattled them somewhat. The Manor: Dimitrov's Manor is a large, well-built house, which incorporated a fortifies tower and a small palisade. From the top of the tower one can see far across the surrounding countryside, as the manor in on top of a small hill. Due to its location the manor is easily defensible. The soldiers of the garrison live in the tower, the "court" of 10 people in the eastern wing and the baron and his family in the western wing. The rooms of the manor are very tall, and the walls are covered with old Traladaran gobelins and frescoes that depict the old legends of the people. The baron doesn't have a lot of riches, but in the recent years the (smoked) fish and grain trade has brought more silver and gold in his coffers. (Note: I haven't included prices to the service below, although they were included in the article, as every Dm has her/his own policy in these matters. The descriptions offer some guidelines,though.) The Stables: This establishment is owned by a young couple who moved here from the north a few years ago. As horses have to be transported here a long way, they take a high price and make a healthy profit. The husband is called Julius (Thyatian), nearing his thirties. Tatjana, 23, tends to do the bargaining, leaving the labouring to her husband. The Inn "Sloshing" The Innkeeper is a retired seaman called Stanislav. He charges a slightly high price for a night, even more for a room with a lock (4 rooms without lock, 1 with lock, and many square yards in the common room). The food is exceptionally good, and comes with the room, which tends to lessen the complaints of travelers over prices. Onion and dill -filled flouder is specialty, also during the summers he seves mountains of smoked fish with schnaps of vodka. "The Shining Lantern" - a bar The hostess is a 60-years olf widow. She has hired a sturdy doorman (Fighter 4) to protect her both from violent customers and over-enthusiastic courtiers - especially the older farmhands seem to think that a life as the husband of a barkeep wouldn't be too bad. The food is cheap, and the drinks can be bought with a reasonable price, depending on the quality. If a customer speaks nicely and politely, she might slip in a small glass of dwarf spirits, bought from passing Minrothadian merchant vessels. Most of is is however reserved to the smith and the storekeeper (see below), who are quite jealous of their specialty. The Smith and the General Store This combined establishment is kept by two dwarven brothers (both Dwarf 4). They make a lot of their ware in the smithy and workshop, but they have to buy something from the north. Rations and clothing is cheap, so is rope, leather, simple metal tools etc. But weaponry, armour, oil, glass etc. are very expensive. The Harbour: The harbour is encalosed by two breakwaters. Mainly fishermen's boats are kept there, in addition to the small sailing ship that is converted into a warship, "The Hawk". It has a crew of 10 seamen and 20 marines, who live in a small barracks in the buildings of the docks. Evenings one can hear interesting stories in their regular tables at the bar, since they know the surrounding waters very well. Beginning of the adventure: When the PCs arrive in Dimitrov people have already begun to disappear. Many villagers are nervous and slightly suspicious of strangers, but they won't start throwing accusations…yet. If the PCs inquire into the apparent nervousness, they have a good chance of hearing about the disappearances. Since well-armed parties are seldom seen in this area, the word of their arrival will soon reach the Baron, who will send his herald to contact them very soon. The herald will offer them a job. At this time he won't go into specifics, other than hint at a substantial reward for a job well done. He'll ask the PCs to meet the Baron at his manor the next morning. The character of the baron har been described earlier. The DM should try to pose him as an honest man, who very well knows that some of the PCs may be more capable and experienced adventurers than him. The PCs are offered goblets of exquisite Minrothadian wine, and the baron meets them in the sitting room by a warm fireplace. He gives them the following information: During the last week several men, about 10 in total, have disappeared from his tenant farms. In addition to this, two boats from the fishermen's village at the western coast of the cape haven't returned, even though there haven't been any storms lately. The subjects of the baron are worried, and rumors abound about ghosts of the Elder Woods, halfling pirates of the Five Shires, even werewolves. The baron himself suspects that the brigands that plague the Duke's roads have expanded their activities to his dominion. He requests that the PCs would visit the three tenant farms where people have disappeared, plus the fishermen's village. If the PCs inquire about possible rewards, the baron gives a generous downpayment (100 gp for example, depending on the way the DM handles money in her/his campaign). In addition to this the baron gives them a letter of recommendation, which states that they are on his official business and should be given (reasonable) assistance. The herald provides them with a sketchy map of the Barony. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:23:24 +0200 From: Federico Kaftal Subject: Re: Need some ideas You may add: 1. Religious/civil war in Karameikos - order of the Griffon involved, Baron Kelvin revolts against Stephan because Adriana refuses to marry him, and he becomes a religious phanatic in the struggle 2. Cult of Halav enters the religious conflict against the Griffon which is menacing Stephan 3. Marilenev tries to revolt, grasping the chance 4. Once Von Hendricks has got rid of Bargle, he attacks by surprise How's that? Complicated enough? Federico Kaftal _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:25:24 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: The Monolith Adventure Part V STAGE II During this stage the PCs should visit the three above mentioned tenant farms and the fishermen's village. Depending on their success at the investigations, they gather a few important clues. Also, during this time rumors about the involvement of Ierendians in the recent events begin to spread. The ambassador's secretary Megreit Wissenschaft arrives at the Baron's manor, and a political conflict is in the making. It is up to the PCs how the situation develops. Note: The Ierendian thread of the adventure is the most open-ended factor, and can be used by the DM to expand the adventure. Travel in the Barony: If Askold's mischief is discounted, the area is very peaceful. There are no monster encounters, roving packs of predators (like wolves), or even brigands. The Tenant Farms: "MARUNA" is a rare sight in this area, a tenant farm owned by a halfling. William Maruna has won the baron's trust and disarmed his costomary suspicion of halflings. A total of 20 halflings live at the farm. No halfling residents have disappeared, but two temporarily employed human farmhands vanished few nights ago, while herding sheep in a nearby meadow. The weird thing is that only two sheep were taken, which would suggest that this isn't the work of ordinary robbers. If they have time, the PCs can spend a nice evening here, enjoying the hospitality of the halflings - good food, pipe tobacco and storytelling. If the PCs hint at the suspicions about halfling pirates, William dismisses them outright. He knows that the pirates wouldn't practice kidnappings of ordinary citizens. He will laugh at suggestions about werewolves. POROS FARM is the largest one in this area, with 30 farmers working in the area. The house is large and well built, with the appearance of some earthly means. The master of the house, Ivan Poros, will gladly talk to the guests and answer their questions. The following information is available: - Four men have disappeared, all during nighttime. All of them were working at the fields when they disappeared, repairing fences or guarding the herds. - One of the farmhands claims he saw a ghost in the night of the third disappearance. In reality he saw the cleric Porius, whose pale face seemed to hover in the dark. The farmhand can give sketchy description of the "ghost". - There are rumors that the ghosts of the Elder Woods are responsible of the disappearances. IVANOVICH FARM is in the southern parts of the cape. Since most of the disappearances have taken place there, the residents are very suspicious of any strangers, especially non-humans. If the PCs act politely, succeed in employing their charisma and using the authority of the Baron, they can find out the following: - Six men disappeared from the farm, all of them while working at the fields that are close to the sea. - A group of Ivanovich's workers were scared a few days ago, when thay found a small forest near the southern coast - forest that seemed to have sprung up overnight. When the place was visited the next day, nothing else was found than a sword lying in the sandy beach. It was not rusty. It is clearly Karameikan craftmanship. (Askold has cast Massmorph over his men during the raid.) Old wives have started talking about "the walking trees" of the Elder Woods. - The master of the house, Pjotr Ivanovich, is convinced that Ierendian buccaneers are to blame. THE FISHERMEN live in a small village north of the Elder Woods. They are very scared after two boats vanished without trace. Their leader, a classical sea-dog (eye patch, munches tobacco) tells what he knows. In total six fishermen have been lost. Both boats were heading for southern waters. Guesses about the culprits range again from Ierendians to halflings and Sea-Bane. Note: It is very possible that at this stage the PCs decide to make further investigations, for example in the Elder Woods. The DM must decide how to handle them. See Stage III. The Trouble with the Ierendians: During this time Megreit Wissenschaft arrives in village Dimitrov to investigate the allegations that have made against her people. She is very angry about them and demands that the baron finds out who is responsible for spreading them. In the bars and the streets there is already talk of revenge, of the deviousness of the Ierendians, even surprisingly of war. The atmosphere seems to have changed very quickly. The baron is puzzled by this, as his subjects are rarely openly hostile about anything. He doesn't think that the Ierendians are to be discounted as culprits, but angering the ambassador without proof wouldn't be wise. He sends word to the PCs and asks them to intervene. Finding the origin of these rumors will require both streetwise and small bribes, best of which being a few pints here and there to loose the tongues. The trail will lead to a dockworker. If intimidated sufficiently, he will confess that he was paid handsomely to spread the rumors and aggrevation. The man who employed him had a pale face and spoke with a distinct Thyatian accent (Porius, of course). Also, the sword found at the Ivanovich farm may be used to direct suspicion away from the Ierendians, but it is hardly conclusive evidence. When the culprit has been found, the rumors subside slowly. Miss Wissenschaft remains in the village, however, to keep tabs on the situation. The baron will give the PCs a small reward if they solve the situation without bloodshed. STAGE III During this stage, or possibly earlier as mentioned above, rumors direct the PCs into the Elder Woods, where they meet the Guardian treant Bark. He asks their assistance against the henchmen of Askold, who have felled many good trees of the forest. If they are successfull, the PCs may find out that the villains live in the Seagull Island. One morning a farmhand of one of the tenant farms arrives in the village. He says that he has seen a small column of smoke arising from the Elder Woods. The baron asks the PCs to investigate if this has anything to do with the disappearances, after all there have been various rumors about the ghosts of the forest. If they haven't heard of them earlier, the PCs could be supplied with some local legends of the forest. Elder Woods if an ancient oak forest. The thick foliage blocks practically all sunlight from reaching the ground, thus the undergrowth is scarce, mainly consisting of various species of fungi. When the PCs are nearing the forest, smoke is no longer visible. When they enter the forest, Bark will become aware of them almost instantly, and will spy on them, using his magic to determine their intentions before making contact. If the PCs don't harm the forest and are "good" as far as Bark is considered, he'll eventually lead them to a small clearing, using his animal servants to accomplish this. There he'll contact them. The treant is very polite and talks in a very roundabout way, and expects same kind of behaviour from others. If the PCs are silly enough to attack him, he'll use his animated trees and spells to repel them. Bark is very worried, because a large group of humans have invaded the forest (as the Seagull island is virtually barren, Askold's servants need firewood and timber for scaffolding in the monolith building site). If the PCs mention something about their mission and/or offer their help, Bark is very happy and will be even more polite in the future. He could of course try to repel the invaders himself, but he is busy repairing the damage in one area where a small forest fire was lit yesterday (one of Askold's goons was careless with his torch). He promises to help the PCs in their mission if they help him. - The camp of Askold's goons is in the western edge of the forest, near the coast. The burnt section of the forest north from it. In the camp are 15 soldiers, one magic-user and 5 slaves. They have felled a good amount of oaks and are presently stripping them and readying them for transport. The camp is in a roundish clearing of about 50 yrd wide, surrounded by the forest on all sides. Five soldiers patrol the perimeter at all times, and five guard the slaves who are working by the piles of logs. There are three tents in the camp, two big ones for the soldiers and one small for the magic-user. 15 soldiers, Fighter 2 ST +1, DX +1, CON +1, Hit Points: 13 Equipment: chain mail, shield, sword, crossbow, assorted coins of 10gp worth each Julius the magic-user, level 4 INT +2, DX +2, Hit Points: 12 Equipment: dagger, 3 throwing daggers, spell book, 50 Thyatian gp in pouch, a pearl-decorated flute (100 gp) Spell Book: 1) Magic Missile, Shield, Light, Read Magic, Read Languages 2) Levitate, Web, Wizard Lock, Mirror Image, ESP The slaves won't fight, even to liberate themselves, as they have been tortured to utter submission by Porius. The soldiers are experienced and skillful, and won't easily flee, as they wouldn't have anywhere to go. (They would be picked up from the coast, but not until a certain signal has been given.) If the PCs muddle up the fight, the DM can always bring in Bark. In addition to the personal effects of Askold's goons, nothing of significance if found in the camp. However, the slaves are aware of the following: - The base of the villains is in the Seagull Island. They can describe the island and the base approximately. - Their leader seems to be an old and powerful wizard. - These particular slaves have been used in cutting trees and preparing the base camp, but the others were sent by boat to somewhere else. (To repair the Circle of Monoliths, but only the magic-user is aware of this, and he doesn't know the exact location. He only knows that it is somewhere in the capeland.) By interrogating possible prisoners the PCs can find out the location of the base, the watchtower on Seagull Island (see below), the total amount of Askold's troops and the identities of Askold and Porius. After the battle is over, Bark thanks the PCs and rewards them. First of all, he'll use his healing magic on any wounded PCs. Then he'll offer them a unique treant feast at his home. In addition to this, he'll give them a Potion of Healing, and a Potion of Animal Control. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 06:53:56 -0700 From: E Howington Subject: 2E vs 3E Hi all, IMC, we're playing with original D&D rules (red, blue, teal boxed sets) because we all hated 2E AD&D. Now, we're curious about 3E. Can anyone give us a quick comparison between 2E and 3E? For those of you who have played both, what are the major differences in gameplay and character development? We want to hear from someone who's played them both before we make an investment in new rulebooks. If this has already been discussed somewhere, could you please point us toward that discussion? Thanks! Eric the Red __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:00:13 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: The Monolith Adventure Part VI Here's the final part of this adventure. I hope you find it to your liking. I'll check the text for language errors and inconsistencies when I have the time, then I'll send a better version for Shawn's site. ------------------------------------------------------------------ STAGE IV This stage is written under the assumption that the DM wishes to realise the climatic battle of Stage V. This means that when the PCs arrive at Seagull Island, the Circle of Monoliths has been restored and Askold has already left to perform the ritual. Thus they must hurry to the Star Rocks, as the time of the ritual is nearing… In order to find Askold's base, the PCs must find out it's exact location, the Seagull Island. This can be done at the Fishermen's village of village of Dimitrov. If asked, the Baron will give them a letter which authorises them to sieze a boat from either the harbour of the fishermen. He can afford to give them only a few, two or three, soldiers, as many of his troops have been sent to patrols at the request of the tenant farmers. "Hawk" is pursuing smugglers, so it can't be used either (this is of course up to the DM). If the PCs contact the Fishermen, their leader will grudgingly give them a sailing boat called "Foamhead", with a crew of two sailors, who are quite reluctant to participate in the actual combat. Sailors Yuri and Kiril: Normal Man, Hit Points: 5, Leather armour, dagger - The trip to the Seagull Island is fast from the Fishermen's village, a bit longer from Dimitrov. If the PCs briefed the slaves well, they should have a good idea of the layout of the island. The boat can land anywhere except for two high cliffs. In the southern shores of the island there are thickets which provide good cover. Askold's goons won't notice the approach if the PCs don't sail towards the island from the direction of the Watchtower or the temporary "harbour". THE SEAGULL ISLAND is a barren, rocky islet. As a hiding place it is ideal, since very few people visit it with the exception of a few guano- and egg-gatherers, who tend to do their "harvesting" on the cliffs on the opposite side of the island from the camp of the villains. The islet is the home for thousands of seagulls, whose constant screams drown any noise. Note: If the PCs haven't acted quickly after the battle of Elder Woods, the soldiers here will be very vigilant, as the expected signal wasn't given. - A small sailing ship "Lightning", fitted with a ballista, has been hidden in a temporary harbour. At the moment 5 soldiers and the captain are guarding the ship. If the PCs search the ship, in the captain's cabin in a locked chest they can find the sea charts of Black Eagle waters, a Black Eagle banner and an Ierendian pirate banner. (The ship has been making small sorties in the nearby waters to increse the Ierendian rumors.) The captain and the soldiers live in two tents at the beach. Captain, level 4 thief DX +1, Hit Points: 10 Equipment: leather armour, sword, crossbow, 25 Thyatian gp, a pearl ring (200 gp) Soldiers: see Stage III If the PCs interrogate them, they can find about the Watchtower and the base camp. They will also find out about the sorties under the Ierendian flag, and Askold's plans of increasing them and beginning serious raids after the completion of "the boss's business". They know nothing about the Monoliths themselves. - The Watchtower was built from the timber of the Elder Woods, and it is placed to guard the approach to the harbour. Its sides have been "painted" with guano as camouflage. Three soldier man the tower constantly, one standing guard at the top at all times. The ground level is comprised by a shed, from which a ladder leads to a platform supported by four long poles. There are three bunks and a small table (a crate). On the table is a deck of cards and assorted coins. The soldiers here have the same information as above. - The base camp was established in natural caves. At the moment there are only a few soldiers, because Askold, Porius and the elite goons have already departed for Star Rocks with a boat. At the mouth of the caves two soldiers are constantly at guard. In the evenings they have a small fire in which they mull wine. If the soldiers notice intruders, they's retreat to the first "room" and prepare an ambush, calling the rest of the soldiers here. If a battle is initiated, the rest of the soldiers will arrive in a few rounds. - "The Guardroom" is the first cave, in which six soldiers live. It is followed by "The Soldiers' Room", in which there are normally a lot of men, but now only 10 since some are at the Star Rocks and some died in Elder Woods. One notable feature here is a chest, which holds 100 bolts, three swords and 2 shields, all of Ierendian craftmanship. - The room of the lower-level mage branches off the previous cave. His personal effects are in a small chest, an they include 1 wolfsbane, 2 silver daggers and a silver pentagram (the mage was pathologically afraid of lycantropes). Under his mattress he had hidden a small onyx (50gp). - From the Soldier's room another doorway opens to Porius's room. The only features here are a symbol of Thanatos painted on the wall, a small altar and two whips. Porius slept on the floor. - Askold's room is behind Porius's room, and it is comfortable, even though it is just a temporary hiding-hole. The floor is covered with a carpet, there is a small gobelin of a red dragon on the wall, and instead of a mattress Askold had his goons build a bed of sorts. It is covered with furs. There's a small table and a locked chest (trapped according to the wishes of the DM). There are maps of Glantri and Karameikos, a pouch of money (a substantial sum, decided by the DM), plus an ancient elven parchment that has a picture of the Monoliths and the Star Rocks. His diary is also there. On the pages the PCs can read his life story in general details - it is solid evidence of the involvement of the Black Eagle Barony, although the real intentions of Black Eagle aren't revealed. Between the pages is a transcription of an ancient scroll, describing the needed rituals. The Children of the Old Covenant aren't mentioned, but it is clear that Askold is trying to gain permanent control over powerful elemental entities, which clearly represents a huge threat to Karameikos. The time of the ritual is of course mentioned - for dramatic effect it should be very very soon, but again this is up to the DM. STAGE V This is the climatic stage of the adventure. The PCs must battle their main adversaries and stop Askold from conjuring up armies of elemental beings. The tormented souls of the Children of the Old Covenant will also intervene, making a final attempt to get the long-deserved rest. It is up to the PCs to save not only the people of Dimitrov, but also this forgotten people. The Star Rocks is a steep neck of land in the southern tip of the Barony of Dimitrov. It can be reached only via inland, because the cliffs are high and almost impossible to climb. Askold arrived here with a boat that is hidden in thickets on the northern side of the isthmus. The Monoliths are at the highest point of the Star Rocks. When the PCs arrive, Askold has already started performing the ancient ritual. The sacred stones have been restored and the area cleared of vegetation. Askold in standing on the central stone slab, with five bonfires surrounding him. The moon is low, and its rays pierce the two stone rings, making them glow. Askolf is chanting ancient chants with alien words and drawing mystical runes into the air. Porius and five elite soldiers are guarding the scene. Porius especially is ready to defend Askold to the very end. 5 Elite Soldiers, Fighter 3 ST +2, CON +1, Hit Points: 20 Equipment: plate mail, shield, sword At some point of the battle, if the PCs don't manage to stop Askold in the very beginning, the mage turns to them. He is smiling victoriously and holds the Conjure Elemental scroll in his hands. He holds his hands up, reciting the magical words, and beams of ancient energy emerge from him, hitting the great monoliths. The earth trembles and the stars in the sky seem to vibrate. Then two oval shapes, like wounds in the very fabric of the world itself, appear inside the stone rings. Behind one of them the PCs can see huge, brown figures, whose movements are slow but seem unstoppable. Behind the other they can see swirling figures, like living clouds, and a great gust of wind is felt. These are legions of earth and air elementals, summoned by the magnified power of Askold's ritual. If someone happens to be looking, Askold takes on the expression of utter horror. He realises that even though his powers of summoning have been magnified, he is still too inexperienced to bind the elemental hordes. Without anyone controlling them, the elementals are poised to enter the world, unhindered. However, the elementals cannot reach the world. Hunchbacked and mutilated figures rise before them, blocking the portals in the stone rings. These are the Children of the Old Covenant, who despite eons of torture are still ready to help the world. The PCs start hearing strange whispers in their minds, urging them to destroy the vile upstart wizard, for the sake of their own land and the sake of these accursed children. Askold, as always, is not ready to see his own folly. He blames the PCs for ruining his plans and tried to kill them with his spells (is the DM wishes, the magnifying effect might strengthen his powers in the battle too). The battle should be very hard, potentially deadly. During the whole time the elementals and the Children of the Old Covenant struggle at the portals. Only the death of Askold can cancel the summoning spell and send the elementals back to their plane of existence. If/when Askold is killed, the remaining soldiers will surrender, but Porius fights to the death. The portals will close, and the Monoliths of the Heavens and the Rock will crumble to dust. For a fleeting moment the sad souls of the Children of the last Covenant hover in this world, before slipping into oblivion. Only a barely audible "Thank you", spoken by gruff voices, remains in the minds of the PCs. If the PCs lose the battle, the consequences will be disastrous. The legions of elementals will destroy the Baronies of Dimitrov and Vorloi, including the Elder Woods. They will continue their march towards Specularum, where only the combined efforts of the Mages of the Guild, the few high-level priests, the Elvenguard, and the few high-level fighters who wield magical weapons (mainly the Order of Griffon) manage to stop them. Perhaps the portals are finally closed, leaving only some enraged and mad elementals to cause havoc in the countryside. However, the spine of the Karameikan army is broken after heavy losses, and Black Eagle will attack, supported perhaps by several local humanoid tribes. Fire and blood engulf the lands of Karameikos. Askold will not have time to enjoy his work, however. The elementals have no respect for those who destroy their solemn lives by ripping their souls to foreign planes. EPILOGUE The PCs have saved the lands of Dimitrov from great harm (and the Karameikos, but they don't know it), and have given a nasty blow to the Black Eagle. Dimitrov rewards them with handsome sums of money and perhaps even gives them some lower noble titles. Miss Wissenschaft thanks them also, opening up a good contact to Ierendi and possible future adventures. Barki will also contact them by a messenger bird and asks them to visit him one last time. He knows the story of the Old Covenant very well, and has decided to tell it to them (the "short" version, as the treant version is sooo long). In the end he sings the PCs themselves to the fabric of this ancient story. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:29:47 -0500 From: John Polacek Subject: New RoM Chat Hi all, Time for another Realms of Mystara chat. Once again, everybody's invited to come! Realms of Mystara Chat Saturday, April 13 at 2PM CST http://www.mystaranet.com/chatmain.htm or on IRC: server: chat.planetz.net port: 6667 channel: #realms_of_mystara Hope to see some of you there! - Ashlander, Developer, Realms of Mystara http://www.mystaranet.com _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 08:32:03 +0000 From: Mike Harvey Subject: Re: 2E vs 3E E Howington wrote: > IMC, we're playing with original D&D rules (red, blue, > teal boxed sets) because we all hated 2E AD&D. > > Now, we're curious about 3E. Can anyone give us a > quick comparison between 2E and 3E? For those of you > who have played both, what are the major differences > in gameplay and character development? Well this ain't quick, but it's a comparison. :-) I've played 0E and 3E a lot, but 1E/2E only occasionally. I hated 2E myself. I was playing 0E in mystara. We switched to 3E and started a new campaign. After a few months I didn't like it and switched back to 0E. That lasted for another couple of months and we switched to 3E, where we've been for about 6 months. Now I find myself even more unhappy with it and am trying to decide what to do. I cut my teeth on BD&D. It is simple, fast, and good for roleplay; the rules are simple enough to memorize, and don't get in my way as DM. And it has a lot of flavor. It is one of my favorite games, and my favorite of the D&D line by far. I switched to 3E (twice) for a number of reasons: (1) everyone was doing it and I didn't want to miss out (2) my players wanted it (3) there as so much 3rd party support (4) I liked some aspects of the rules better As for #1, I like to be part of a community; not following a herd so much as I like discuss things and trade ideas and stuff. And it seemed like a chance to get in on the "ground floor" of a new thing, something I'd never done before. I have a lot of Mystara material for 0E. I thought it would be easy to convert, and planned to supplement it with new 3E material. In practice, conversion was a real chore, it was nearly impossible to keep the same flavor as 0E, and most of the 3rd party stuff was (IMO) uninteresting or inappropriate for Mystara. Conversion: I joined the conversion team and put a LOT of work into this. It slowly became apparent that it a was taking way too many hours of my time, and the results were not "mystaran" enough (to my taste) to justify the work. I've done even more conversion myself, of modules and monsters and stuff, and it's a chore. Writing stuff in 0E is a snap because you can eyeball it and there aren't that many balance issues to consider; in 3E, there is a formula for everything and everything has to be balanced. This either means doing a lot more work in conversion, or eyeballing it and forfeiting on of the main selling points of 3E. (I am of the opinion that if you're going to ignore the rules anyway, why use them at all?) Another factor in conversion is the results. For some things, 3e is very different and does't really convert well. Alignment is a good example; there are evil folks on Mystara but they're not always easy to identify, and many are hard to peg as good or evil. We tried everything we could think of on the conversion team to deal with this, and finally gave up. Alignment is too deeply rooted in 3e to extract. In theory you can work around it; in play, my group detected alignment all the time (its only a first level spell now). This to me is a fundamental failing, as it turned a mystery into hack and slash. It's okay if you want that; I don't. 3E is a lot grittier, and the players are a lot more powerful than 0E. 3E is loaded to the gills with crunchy bits, and so is every add-on book, magazine article, and 3rd party supplement. If you do go to 3e, I'd recommend disallowing all rules beyond the core books and especially prestige classes, approving them only on a case-by-case basis. It really depends on what sort of gaming you enjoy. Personally, I like fast paced action, high fantasy, and a strong sense of style. 0E feels stylish to me; 3E feels dark and edgy. 3E combat is slower, though it improves with practice. More important is that 3E has very detailed combat. Nice for wargaming, dungeon crawling, and climactic battles, but it does slow things down and lend a bloodier feel to the game. Also I think 3E leaves far less room to roleplay and improvise, because you're constricted by very specific rules. Again a matter of taste. If you like GURPS combat, you'll probably like 3E. My players love 3E. In their words, "because it gives us a lot of control." They find that all the fiddly rules give them all sorts of ways to wriggle out of situations the DM puts them in. This is great for players but frustrating for me as DM. Some things about 3E are very nice. I like the reverse AC system. Some things I hate. My biggest problem with GURPS is that there are too many rules to keep track of and I have to ignore most of them to make it playable. Again, if I'm going to ignore the main feature of the system, why choose it? 3E is similar, in that I find the rules too bulky and unwieldy. We frequently stop the game for 5-15 minutes to look up some obscure rule. I prefer to "wing it" and move on, playing it like 0E; but if I'm gonna play like 0E, why not just play 0E in the first place? I find the stat blocks in 3E *way* too long to parse easily, and the epic level rules will only make it worse. Hit points are heavily inflated, making bigger numbers to crunch (but impressing players with their buffness and how much damage they can deal.) Why did I switch back and forth? The initial switch to 3E was because it looked new and interesting and we wanted to try it. Later I switched back to 0E because I felt it was too complicated and played more like a video game than an RPG. However my players were dissatisfied with 0E after playing 3E, and certainly combat was less crunchy. Also at that time the 3rd party stuff was just starting to come out, and the mystara conversion team was ramping up. So we switched back to 3E. Combat *is* very crunchy and if that's your main activity in the game, you'll love 3E. Overall, my favorite system for Mystara (that I've used so far) is Basic D&D with a few 3e-isms thrown in. Reverse the AC, maybe update the skill system, borrow a spell or two. After playing for a year, I think 3E was a poor fit, and I am now sorry I ever started with it. I liked it at first, but now that my players are addicted to all the crunchy bits it's very difficult to pull back. I haven't played 2E much, but I can compare a few things: * 0E has a fairly simple core system; 1E/2E were rather baroque and seemed like a mishmash; 3E has a simple core like 0E, but has a great bulk of material which makes it more complex overall than 1E/2E * 0E has very little tactical combat detail, 1E/2E have moderate tactical detail, 3E revels in tactics * 0E has very simple character creation; 1E/2E were somewhat more complex; 3E is much more complex * 0E alignments are not very important; 1E/2E were fairly important, and 3E alignment is crucial. * 0E had few crunchy bits: weapon mastery was one; 1E had fairly few crunchy bits; 2E introduced a lot via add-on books; 3E is loaded with crunchy bits in the core rules * 0E was balanced between adventure and roleplay; 1E was more adventure oriented; 2E as a kinder gentler game that emphasized roleplay; 3E returns to adventure with a vengeance and outdoes even 1E, and (IMO) is the least roleplay oriented of all versions * 0E/1E seemed... adventurous. Death was always a saving throw away, and nobody could count on anything but danger and excitement. Characters survived and prospered by wits and teamwork. 2E tried to reduced the overall danger component, it seemed to me, but I didn't play it enough to get a solid feel for it. 3E is violent and super-powered, but to my taste lacks that adventurous feel, and the dangerous edge is gone. The focus has shifted from party teamwork to individual power and advancement. 3E goes to great lengths to eliminate death. No more level drains, no more save-vs-death, increased hit points. Poison is mostly nonlethal and you recover in a matter of hours. It is more like Champions, where nothing is truly permanent and characters are hard to kill. You can't even coup-de-grace a sleeping opponent with any certainty, since they get a save. 3E guarantees players a particular wealth at each level, lets them buy magic items or manufacture them, and I looked for ways to limit magic items but they are built in now and part of the game balance. My players couldn't find any boots of flying so they made their own. Again I could have said no, but he did take the feat and felt he had paid for the privilege, and it is a balance factor. In 3E, nothing is ever truly out of reach. In every previous edition, the GM was in control of what magic entered the game, but in 3E, the players are in control. Like that new spell? You don't have to beg/borrow/steal it, just take it as your freebie next time you level. Overall, my biggest complaints are the complexity, the reduction of GM control, and the blunting of the dangerous edge. Anyway, it's different. It's great for players, not so great for GMs. And this is all my opinion, though I have been playing for a year and played 0E adn 1E for many years before that. Some folks love 3E, and I wish them success. It's just not my cup of tea. I'm not a 3E-hater. It's a good system and does what it says. We had fun with it. Mike -- Mike Harvey -- Beaverton, Oregon http://members.dsl-only.net/~bing/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:36:32 -0700 From: "(Zach IC) ()" Subject: Re: 2E vs 3E Well Mike, I've got a few comments that you may or may not like. > * 0E/1E seemed... adventurous. Death was always a saving throw > away, and nobody could count on anything but danger and excitement. > Characters survived and prospered by wits and teamwork. 2E tried to > reduced the overall danger component, it seemed to me, but I didn't > play it enough to get a solid feel for it. 3E is violent and > super-powered, but to my taste lacks that adventurous feel, and the > dangerous edge is gone. Dangerous Edge is gone... Hmm perhaps you aren't giving 3E it's due. I would suggest taking a look at what it is that is keeping that "edge" from happenning in your 3E game. Are your characters getting AC's too high to hit except by dragons? Throw some Monk/wizards with some nasty touch spells at them. There are very few things in the game that improve touch AC. Magic getting to be a problem? Hey, dispel magic is a wonderful thing. > The focus has shifted from party teamwork to > individual power and advancement. 3E goes to great lengths to > eliminate death. No more level drains, no more save-vs-death, > increased hit points. Poison is mostly nonlethal and you recover in a > matter of hours. It is more like Champions, where nothing is truly > permanent and characters are hard to kill. You can't even > coup-de-grace a sleeping opponent with any certainty, since they get > a save. 3E guarantees players a particular wealth at each level, No, Not true at all. The DM guide "suggests" a level of wealth for standard NPC's. Even then, a lot of this "Wealth" can be sucked up by a magic item or two. > lets > them buy magic items or manufacture them, and I looked for ways to > limit magic items but they are built in now and part of the game > balance. Built in and part of game balance... Hmmm, many of the feats are supposed to be phenomenal things that heroes can accomplish. However, just because they have the feat magic arms and armor doesn't necessarily mean that you have to let them make that shield of flying. Require them to get components that simply cannot be bought. Or perhaps require them to find an NPC teacher for the feat in the first place. > My players couldn't find any boots of flying so they made > their own. Again I could have said no, but he did take the feat and > felt he had paid for the privilege, and it is a balance factor. In > 3E, nothing is ever truly out of reach. In every previous edition, > the GM was in control of what magic entered the game, but in 3E, the > players are in control. Like that new spell? You don't have to > beg/borrow/steal it, just take it as your freebie next time you > level. Wow, This one just made me laugh. OK First tip: The players are never in control. You are the GM. The GM is always in control of what magic enters the game. Again, if they like that new spell, require them to do something for it. Impossible components for spell research such as a lion's roar or the pity of an angel may give you the control you seek but in the end, if you don't want something in your campaign, grow a spine and just tell your players NO. Perhaps tell them that you don't want that particular item in their characters' possession just yet because it spoils a dungeon you've been working on... or, to make things even more interesting, just make the dungeon cancel that item in the key ares you need it to. > Anyway, it's different. It's great for players, not so great for GMs. > And this is all my opinion, though I have been playing for a year and > played 0E adn 1E for many years before that. Some folks love 3E, and > I wish them success. It's just not my cup of tea. I'm not a 3E-hater. > It's a good system and does what it says. We had fun with it. > > Mike > -- > Mike Harvey -- Beaverton, Oregon Try not to get too tied up with the openness of 3E. Yes, Many things blew wide open for players. But at the same time, they blew even wider for DM's. If you have any specific questions you'd like to throw my way feel free to email me privately drax_nicodemus@hotmail.com I'd love to help you get your players back under control with a little bit of creative DM'ing wether you continue using 3E or not. Moreso, I'd like more people to see 3E as the wonderful system that it is. Enjoy! DRAX _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:48:28 -0400 From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: 2E vs 3E On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Mike Harvey wrote: > * 0E alignments are not very important; 1E/2E were fairly important, > and 3E alignment is crucial. I just have to make a simple point here: Alignment is never 'crucial'. If you chop alignment out of 3e completely you don't break more than a few spells/items, and the alignment restrictions for classes. I personally trat alignment as a roleplaying tool, not a mechanic. Thus, 'know alignment' spells don't work at all, and 'protection from evil/good' (or law/chaos, but I don't use that one) work remarkably differently. Also on the point of making magic items, 0e was remarkably guilty of that also, as magic items could be made without actually taking any feats. Just spend the money, and you have your customized item after a few rolls. Ethan -- Kinard 210 Linux Guru Webmaster www.steelangel.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:35:26 -0700 From: Mike Harvey Subject: Re: 2E vs 3E drax_nicodemus@HOTMAIL.COM wrote; > Dangerous Edge is gone... Hmm perhaps you aren't giving 3E it's due. Oh, they're easy enough to hit. I could kill them if I really wanted to, and have once, and they've been close many times. I'm not sure why it feels less edgy. I think maybe because as DM I don't want to kill them. It used to be that there was still danger (due to bad luck or foolishness) even when the DM was playing straight, but now it seems like they are only in mortal danger if I specifically stack the deck against them. Maybe I'm too old-school, or maybe it's just perception. > No, Not true at all. The DM guide "suggests" a level of wealth for > standard NPC's. Even then, a lot of this "Wealth" can be sucked up > by a magic item or two. The DMG suggests a level of wealth of *PCs*, and while the DM is always free to ignore it, the DMG warns that straying too far will disrupt balance. I did experiment and stray from the guidelines, in both directions, and yes I ran into balance problems. And magic items are the problem not the solution. I've never cared for games where players are tricked out with a dozen magic items, yet 3e is balanced on the assumption that this is the norm. (And one powerful item isn't any better than a slew of lesser items.) > Wow, This one just made me laugh. OK First tip: The players are > never in control. You are the GM. The GM is always in control of > what magic enters the game. *sigh* I've been DMing for 20 years, it's not like I haven't figured that out by now. And yes I know how to take things away, and have done so. I don't like rules which make promises that I then have to refuse. It should be up to the DM; so why is it written into the rules? The rules should be a baseline that the DM can add to, rather than giving stuff and expecting the DM to catch it. In the first case if you miss something, no problem; in the latter, if you miss something, you're stuck with it. When we decided to play 3e, it was because we looked at the rules and said "cool". If I then say, "okay but we're not using those rules", then I'm violating the player-GM contract. It's okay at the start of the game if everyone agrees to it and still wants to play 3E, but halfway through a campaign is too late to suddenly start revoking rules. Yeah I could do better by scrapping the campaign and starting over again with house rules. But then we aren't discussing house rules, we're discussing 3E. I don't hate 3E, I just don't think it's well suited to Mystara. *MY* idea of Mystara. My taste, I gave my reasons, your opinion is different. No problem. If I were playing Forgotten Realms, I'd choose 3E hands down. Mike -- Mike Harvey -- Beaverton, OR http://members.dsl-only.net/~bing/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:59:54 -0500 From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: 2E vs 3E In my game Know Alignment is an extremely awesome spell. It actually allows the caster to know the alignment of the target of the spell. Political, religious, familial, or whatever. If a character is aligned in a particular way, that is revealed. Just my 2 cents. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "SteelAngel" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] 2E vs 3E > On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Mike Harvey wrote: > > > * 0E alignments are not very important; 1E/2E were fairly important, > > and 3E alignment is crucial. > > I just have to make a simple point here: > > Alignment is never 'crucial'. If you chop alignment out of 3e completely > you don't break more than a few spells/items, and the alignment > restrictions for classes. > > I personally trat alignment as a roleplaying tool, not a mechanic. Thus, > 'know alignment' spells don't work at all, and 'protection from evil/good' > (or law/chaos, but I don't use that one) work remarkably differently. > > Also on the point of making magic items, 0e was remarkably guilty of that > also, as magic items could be made without actually taking any feats. Just > spend the money, and you have your customized item after a few rolls. > > Ethan > > -- > Kinard 210 Linux Guru > Webmaster www.steelangel.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:35:16 +0000 From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: 2E vs 3E > No, Not true at all. The DM guide "suggests" a level of wealth for standard > NPC's. Even then, a lot of this "Wealth" can be sucked up by a magic item > or > two. > Yeah but wealth is wealth, wether it`s in magic items or gold. If the player exchange wealth for magical items all the time, it makes for too powerful PCs. > Built in and part of game balance... Hmmm, many of the feats are supposed > to > be phenomenal things that heroes can accomplish. However, just because they > have the feat magic arms and armor doesn't necessarily mean that you have > to > let them make that shield of flying. Require them to get components that > simply cannot be bought. Or perhaps require them to find an NPC teacher for > the feat in the first place. Then they will feel cheated for taking a feat that doesnt work well or all the time, because they can't use it. Anyway isnt 2E vs 3E a forbidden topic on this list, or in fact almost everywhere, that`s one those topics like religion who shouldnt be debated. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:50:10 -0700 From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: 2E vs 3E At 20:35 4/10/2002 +0000, Gilles Leblanc wrote: > Anyway isnt 2E vs 3E a forbidden topic on this list, or in fact almost > everywhere, that`s one those topics like religion who shouldnt be debated. That would be unfortunate if true. People should keep their passions under control, but I think discussing the merits of each system is certainly appropriate for *D&D lists of all flavors. And on the (snipped) reference to magic item recipes, it's YOUR campaign. As it says in the 3E PHB, Rule Zero is "check with the DM." If the DM says "all costs for making magic items are doubled, as are the chances of failure," that's OK. You've officially dramatically lessened the ability of players to create their own magic items. Unlike Gygax-era *D&D, where questioning the holy writ was explicitly verboten (one time in the Dragon, he wrote "you'd be playing something interesting, but it wouldn't be AD&D," in an unintentionally hilarious comment), it's explicitly A-OK in 3E. If your players aren't prepared to hear that the DM has tweaked his or her game world, they need to re-read the first page of the PHB again. In any case, a vote for (polite) debate on various versions of *D&D rules, please. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:55:16 -0700 From: Jordi Castille Subject: Re: Need some ideas Federico Kaftal wrote: You may add: 1. Religious/civil war in Karameikos - order of the Griffon involved, Baron Kelvin revolts against Stephan because Adriana refuses to marry him, and he becomes a religious phanatic in the struggle Religious War good idea, Ethnic Civil War, Bad idea, Thyatis might get involved in order to rescue King Stefan, and help "Stablize" the kingdom. 2. Cult of Halav enters the religious conflict against the Griffon which is menacing Stephan Cult of Halav are considered a bunch of Fanatic and could spell trouble, if the Cult decides to make Stefan I, a martyr. 3. Marilenev tries to revolt, grasping the chance Reading the Karameikos guidebook, How would you get the clans to ally for a revolt in Marilenev 4. Once Von Hendricks has got rid of Bargle, he attacks by surprise Von Hendricks, might attack by surprise, if he was to attack Luln, that would be unexpected, but if he was to attack the Seashire, that would be expected. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:04:32 -0700 From: Jordi Castille Subject: Re: Need some ideas The problem with the great horde and this was discussed long ago is that i was already talked about in the Orcs of Thar Gazzeeteer about Uthgala and her great horde that went as far as the Yazak Steepes and back to the Broken Lands ravaging everything in sight. Whatever Moglai Khan could come up with is small compared to the Great Horde. Ethengar laided siege to the Heldannic Capital Freiburg for many many month to no avail, the Horde of Ethengar may control the land around Freiburg but Freiburg had the Air superiority and Ocean advantage of getting supplies and reinforcements to outlast the horde even without the plague, but the plague had to happen from being enclosed and not able to bury or destroy their dead effectively. That's why the idea of the Plague made sense McNerd. Jordi, Knight of DarokinWhat about the great horde affect? Ethengar was modeled by the Mongelians. I'm sure they are just waiting to invade. IMC, I modeled the Heldann Freehold as a cross between Turkey and Hungarian Magyars. They are a very powerful maruading horde as well, and they always kept the Ethengars in check and vice versa. But after the Hattians did their Immortal-backed invasion, Heldann is not in a position to act as a threat to Ethengar. Ethengar is poised to kick serious butt. Though in WotI, they pull out the desease card. However, I don't like that one. :-< I don't like the events played in WotI, so I dimiss it IMC. - Joaquin --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:16:57 -0700 From: Jordi Castille Subject: Re: Pelatan Michael Diehm wrote: In one of the letters answered by Bruce Heard in the Princess Ark, he mentioned that he believed Pelatan would be the Land of the Amazons. As per the Hollow World Boxed Set, people of Neathar stock migrated to the region circa BC800. I believe this group has decided that they were Varellyans. Whoever they were, I believe they were fleeing Milenian expansion. Possibly, there were many women, as the males had already been slain. This lead to a gender imbalance like in the Soviet Union after WW2 (?). The refugees formed a society dominated by women more out of necessity than anything else. Men were mere drones. So I see the Matriarchy of Pelatan as a potentially unique area of a male-dominated planet (thus far). Cheers _________________________________________________________________ I have to say that the Islanders of the Isle of Dread were also ruled by women, (X1 module), That would not make it unique, the Matriarchy of Pelatan after reading so much into it, would make sense, most of the women would be running government, while the men were defending their homelands, to fight for their homeland, in wars the first things that some of the soldiers would take in their testosterone lust would be the women, although i could imagine seeing women in the battle line fighting for Pelatan with male warl leaders leading them against Izondian Agression. Just a thought, Jordi --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:41:41 -0500 From: Giorgio Subject: GAZ 13 The Shadow Elves (long) So last weekend I get GAZ 13 and I think to myself "Yes! The Mystaran Drow Elves book arrived, finally!". Little did I know at the time that the Shadow Elves are NOTHING like the Drow of the AD&D books. By the time I spent two days reading the book cover to cover, I came to like the Shadow Elves for the interesting race they are. However, I had fit them as the "evil" race in my mind and my background history before I got the book, now I think of them as a "tragic, noble race" just waiting to burst on the international scene in 1,000 AC as a mayor player. So I have to do a little re-writing of my back history to accommodate the role I want them to play in my campaign. Here is a first draft of what I have in mind, any suggestions feel free to mention them. Shadow Elf timeline (800-1,000 AC) 800-810 AC -The Shadow Elves suffer repeated invasion of humanoids forces threw out the course of the Inhuman War (800-810 AC) as the Immortal Atzanteotl seeks to destroy his one time followers and remove the only real power that can defeat the humanoid of the Broken Land. -During the War, King Teleman and Xatapechitil are killed in battle and princess Tanadeleyo takes the throne. Over the course of the war her fiery temper is molded to iron will to survive ,and it was her strength, determination and will that lead her people threw the dark times ahead. -During the War, a company of Rockhome warriors chasing a fleeing group of orcs deep in the Dwarfgate mountains ran into a forward Shadow Elf patrol. After both sides realized they shared a common enemy, the joined forces to destroy the orc party. Following the battle a truce was formed which later lead to an alliance between the Shadow Elves and Rockhome dwarves. -A joint Shadow Elf-Dwarf invasion force fought their way towards the humanoids main fortress in the Broken Lands and destroyed it, and went on a rampage that destroyed everything in their path. This offensive broke the back of the humanoid forces in the Broken Lands, and lead to the turning point in the war. -By the time the war finished 40% of the Shadow Elf population laid dead and 75% of its cities laid in ruins. Reconstruction was quick to follow as the Dwarves contributed time, resources and labor to help rebuild the Shadow Elves cities and construct new fortifications. 980 AC -Kanafasti (the royal mage) receives a vision from Rafiel (Immortal of Energy) this leads him to the surface land to a place called Karameikos. This young nation was under heavy attack from Orc and Goblin forces from the Wulfholde Hills and Duke Stephan was hard pressed to keep his nation together. Kanafasti was able to meet with the Duke and they developed a mutual respect for each other. Soon a deal was struck between them that would alter the destiny of both nations. The Shadow Elves would deploy there formidable armies to the current and future defense of the Duchy, in return for a peace treaty (with Karameikos and its trading partners) and the granting of a Shadow Elf homeland. This new nation, called Aengomor, would stretch south and east of the Volaga River to the Thyatian border and north of the Eastron Road. When Kanafasti returned to his homeland his words where greeted with blantant disbelief, until the Radiant Shaman Porphyriel confirmed his words to be true and that they where the will of Rafiel. Great rejoicing was had in the Shadow Elf lands as many believed that they had been tested harshly during the Inhuman War, and that Rafiel was please with his people and gave them a new homeland. 1,000 AC -Aengomor develops as a strong nation at peace with its neighbors, and acts as a deterrent to Thyatian "adventurism" to the west. They keep their promise and actively keep down the humanoid forces in the Wulfholde, Atlan Teppe and Black Bear Mountains. The also make a killing in hiring out Shadow Elf war parties (specialist in hunting orkish and goblinoid forces). George ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:08:07 -0400 From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: GAZ 13 The Shadow Elves (long) No, the Shadow Elves are definitely NOT drow. This confused some of my players to no end during the invasion of Alfheim in WotI. They immediately assumed that the SE were evil, based on their knowledge of other game worlds. I'm not about to dispel their impressions, either. They were quite confused when they came across a SE village with oridinary elves there. They figured that the good common folk were ruled by a tyrannical overlord. Anyways, I like your campaign ideas. A few questions though. How are relations between the SE and Alfheim, esp. since the SE already have a new enclave on the surface? I'm assuming that with these developments, you won't be playing out the SE invasion of Alfheim, which isn't a bad thing. I always liked Alfheim, and having it "no more" isn't the easiest thing (although IMC it hasn't reached that point yet - the PCs tipped off the elves to the SE invasion and Alfheim will not fall so easily). As far as SE mercs, do they still need to adjust to the sun in order to freely roam the surface? What about the Vyalia elves already living in western Karameikos? ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 9 Apr 2002 to 10 Apr 2002 (#2002-98) **************************************************************