Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 30 Dec 2002 to 31 Dec 2002 (#2003-1) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 01/01/2003, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 8 messages totalling 405 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. MISC: The Two Towers and Elrond 2. MISC: The Two Towers 3. LOTR II = taboo (2) 4. Stuff4Sale: Mystara stuff 5. Anyone have PWA1 Handy? 6. LOTR II and D&D movie = taboo 7. People have asked me what I have so... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 03:21:25 -0400 From: Paul Westermeyer Subject: Re: MISC: The Two Towers and Elrond > human weakness (yet he probably simply meant that he witnessed this > weaknesses and the biggest of them was not to destroy the ring when they had > a chance to). That was one of the big mistakes in the first film, portraying Isildur as a vain and foolish man, rather then a tragic figure. If Elrond held the ring in his hands, _he_ would not have been able to destroy it either. That was sort of the entire point. Neither Gandalf, nor Elrond, nor Galadriel could bear the Ring to Mt Doom. If they could have, then why send it with such as Frodo? Nor could Aragorn. There was a reason Frodo was the Ring bearer. Anyway, the movies do miss the point quite often, but then, Tolkien was a genius. Peter Jackson is just a good film director. -- "We sleep safely in our beds, only because rough men stand guard in the night, ready to visit violence upon those who would do us harm." H.G. Wells. Paul Westermeyer, westermeyer.3@osu.edu Phd Candidate, History, Ohio State University Instructor, Humanities, Columbus State Community College ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 03:31:49 -0400 From: Paul Westermeyer Subject: Re: MISC: The Two Towers I suppose i should mention I've read the LotRs every year since 1980, at least once, usually more often, and that I've read the Silmarillion and CT's History of Middle earth series many times as well, plus all the other Tolkien writings, like 'On Faerie Stories' or the Adventures of Tom Bombadil. I'm not a professional Tolkien scholar, but I am a professional scholar and a Tolkien fanatic. > The Theoden plot seems to be underscoring one of the "ideological choices" > PJ has taken in portraying the LotR: Theoden is calling people's attentions > to the need of common men and women (all the others are discussing big War > vs. Evil plans at Edoras while hamlets are being put to the torch)... > Aragorn follows this advice and therefore you can see his heroic-leader role > grow on screen, developing the psychological line started in Fellowship, > where he's afraid of partaking Isildur's fate. By choosing to help Rohan's > "civilians", he's moving further and further away from that scary fate. All > of that is quite clear in the novels, where you have tons of pages to grasp > the role and duty of the Dunedain, but the movies need a bit more of > explicitness. The Aragorn-torn-over-Isildur's-fate storyline is another of those unneeded additions to the plot. It isn't in the books, and isn't required. There is quite enough drama in Aragorn's storyline with his quest for the throne (which he has spent many, many decades preparing for) and his romance with Arwen. Moreover, his attitude towards Isildur would be 'Am I as good as him?' not 'Will I become him?'. Either they changed the meaning or they really, really missed the point. > What is doubtlessly (at least IMO) good of the movies is that PJ made > ideological choices in the rendering of Tolkien's world in the movies, > choices which not all Tolkienist would agree upon: like the "technological" > portrayal of Saruman and his explicit verbatim relationship to "industry" or > the pervading feeling of "temptation and self-denial" throughout the movies > (in the book, this Messianic feeling is more confined to Sam and Frodo). > Again, these ideas come so subtly in Tolkien (as they have 1000+ pages to > hint and unfold), in movies they have to stick to a few well defined lines > (with a lot of visual support). What is pleasing is that the director and > team have taken those choices of careful interpretation of Tolkien's world > (and you can see it went down to reading more than the trilogy, there are > strong lines of thought which have to go to Silmarillion, UT and so on), > even if I don't agree with all of them. That's to me the sign of a good > work, that they have taken the adaptation of a fantasy novel as seriously as > adapting classical "serious" literature (like Faulkner, Miller, etc), > though, as all interpretation, is open to debate and perfectioning. In general, yes, they took it seriously. But they still added or altered actual plot points in ways Tolkien would have really, really disliked. I'm not sure if he would have considered the end result worthy or not. -- "We sleep safely in our beds, only because rough men stand guard in the night, ready to visit violence upon those who would do us harm." H.G. Wells. Paul Westermeyer, westermeyer.3@osu.edu Phd Candidate, History, Ohio State University Instructor, Humanities, Columbus State Community College ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 03:35:10 -0400 From: Paul Westermeyer Subject: Re: LOTR II = taboo > Just remember.. that's 15 million in profit, not counting any > merchandising or video sales. I am sure there were some. In fact I have > a couple of things. $15 million is enough to get a second movie out and > it will come on the heels of all the LoTR success. It will probably make > more money the second time around. > > Dustin God lord I hope not. Another D&D movie might be the straw that kills the hobby. The first one was everything Gygax swore a D&D movie would never be. Of course, being pretty much a non-Gygax fan (I like some of his work, but his articles in Dragon in the early eighties really turned me off) I expected that eventually it _would_ be so cheesy and horrific it would make Hawk the Slayer look like an oscar contender. Which it was. -- "We sleep safely in our beds, only because rough men stand guard in the night, ready to visit violence upon those who would do us harm." H.G. Wells. Paul Westermeyer, westermeyer.3@osu.edu Phd Candidate, History, Ohio State University Instructor, Humanities, Columbus State Community College ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 23:41:09 +1300 From: Richard Vowles Subject: Stuff4Sale: Mystara stuff Hey everyone, I am offloading my Mystara stuff. I have a whole heap - I collected it for quite some time. If anyone is interested... Half of it is listed on Ebay (just search for Mystara). if you are interested in anything, let me know and I'll tell you if I have it. Thanks Richard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 08:51:46 -0500 From: Dustin Clingman Subject: Re: LOTR II = taboo Well Gygax had absolutely nothing to do with the movie, for better or worse. The rights to produce it were purchased from TSR long after he left. Those rights included all the licensing rights for the associated game supplements. The movie was a little "light" to be sure, but I tend to think of these things as a way to bring new people into the idea of what D&D is about. Yes, there were many parts of it that were very cheesy, but that doesn't mean that it was a total loss. D&D was trying to cross some boundaries that fantasy films have not been able to do well in the past, Conan being a notable exception. By having familiar actors and some "light comic relief" they were trying to pull in a different crowd. Opening new people up to fantasy is a good thing, even if that means bruising some of the long heralded geek traditions. Dustin --- Dustin Clingman Zeitgeist Games www.zeitgeistgames.com //-----Original Message----- //From: Mystara RPG Discussion //[mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On Behalf Of Paul Westermeyer //Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 2:35 AM //To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM //Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] LOTR II = taboo // // //>Just remember.. that's 15 million in profit, not counting any //>merchandising or video sales. I am sure there were some. In //fact I have //>a couple of things. $15 million is enough to get a second //movie out and //>it will come on the heels of all the LoTR success. It will probably //>make more money the second time around. //> //>Dustin // //God lord I hope not. Another D&D movie might be the straw //that kills the hobby. The first one was everything Gygax //swore a D&D movie would never be. Of course, being pretty //much a non-Gygax fan (I like some of his work, but his //articles in Dragon in the early eighties really turned me //off) I expected that eventually it _would_ be so cheesy and //horrific it would make Hawk the Slayer look like an oscar //contender. Which it was. //-- //"We sleep safely in our beds, only because rough men stand //guard in the night, ready to visit violence upon those who //would do us harm." H.G. Wells. // //Paul Westermeyer, westermeyer.3@osu.edu //Phd Candidate, History, Ohio State University //Instructor, Humanities, Columbus State Community College // //******************************************************************** //The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp //The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ //To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM //with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. // ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 09:19:32 EST From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Anyone have PWA1 Handy? <> Once again thanks. I had feared that Eadra would have little information on=20 her. In some ways, I am grateful for that. See, I had overstepped things a=20 bit with this particular adventure module by allowing access to the ruling=20 monarch of an Alphatian kingdom by a lowly ex-soldier turned adventurer. IMO= =20 one would have to be trusted and have a reputation (name level) to gain such= =20 an audience. Instead, I am going to play it safe. I think I'll use Idon as the go between= ,=20 initiating any quests needed by the royal court. The way i have the plot set up, the PC is a discharged Eadrin Soldier. It=20 starts at the barracks in Archport. The PC is sent to see someone by his/her= =20 former officer/nco. This leads to the first quest. That one completed, he/sh= e=20 is sent to someone else. And so on. From start to finish, the stated goal is= =20 that the mysterious Colonel Yotmar is looking for recruits, but such recruit= s=20 must have a reputation.=20 The quests simply get the PC that reputation and audience with Yotmar,=20 opening the gates to the follow up modules. The quests are singularly simple= ,=20 though combined they show various aspects of Alphatian society (good and=20 bad). Each are also parts of an orchestrated series of tests established by=20 Yotmar to test potential recruits. Yotmar did not engineer the quests, he=20 only uses them to test the recruits.=20 One thing thta I am doing that strays from typical NWN Modules, is that I am= =20 not implementing a set journal. IMO this typifies Alphatia's chaotic nature.= =20 Besides, most journals that I have seen either are way too vague or offer wa= y=20 too much information. Players can record details in the blank journal or=20 scribble them down on notebook paper.=20 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 15:44:22 +0100 From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: Re: LOTR II and D&D movie = taboo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dustin Clingman" . The movie was a little "light" to be sure, but I tend > to think of these things as a way to bring new people into the idea of > what D&D is about. Yes, there were many parts of it that were very > cheesy, but that doesn't mean that it was a total loss. D&D was trying > to cross some boundaries that fantasy films have not been able to do > well in the past, Conan being a notable exception. By having familiar > actors and some "light comic relief" they were trying to pull in a > different crowd. Opening new people up to fantasy is a good thing, even > if that means bruising some of the long heralded geek traditions. I totally agree with you. I heard many comments about the movie and the most of them, particulary among gamers here in Italy, were very negative. I liked the movie a lot, instead, even if is obviously not a masterwork, and i hope someone will do others D&D movies. The sad thing is that the movie, while not appreciated by D&D fans, nor was seen by other people... I don't know why, because the great public has done blockbusters of movie like "The Scorpion King" and "The Reign of Fire" who were, IMNSHO, pure crap, and a lot worse than the D&D movie.... About LotR, I didn't saw yet the second (in Italy will be in theathres on 1/16) but I liked a lot the first, even if the DVD extended edition was a lot better than the original edition. I was disappointed by the absence of Gil Galad in the initial battle more than by the adsence of Tom Bombadil and Glorfindel or the presence of Arwen. And I don't like at all how they depicted Saruman. In the movie he seems to be a servant of Mordor, while in the book he was just playing his own game... bye Francesco ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 09:39:50 +1300 From: Richard Vowles Subject: People have asked me what I have so... I thought I'd just post to the list of the stuff I haven't put on ebay. OD&D - D&D boxed sets of Basic, Expert, Companion, Masters and Immortals - 1981 printing of the Basic rulebook - 1983 printing of the Expert rulebook - D&D Rules Cyclopedia - Wrath of the Immortals Boxed Set - Eastern Trail Map - Western Trail Map - Creature Catalog Gazetteer - GAZ 1 - The Grand Duchy of Karameikos - GAZ 2 - The Emirates of Ylaruam - GAZ 3 - The Principalities of Glantri - GAZ 11 - The Republic of Darokin - GAZ 12 - The Golden Kahn of Ethengar Basic Adventures - DDA1 Arena of Thyatis - B1 In Search of the Unknown - B2 The Keep on the Borderlands - B3 Palace of the Silver Princess - B4 The Lost City - B5 Horror on the Hill - King's Festival (no cover) - Castle Caldwell and Beyond (no cover) Expert Adventures - X1 The Isle of Drea - X3 Curse of Xanathon - X6 Quagmire - XL1 Quest for the Heartstone Companion Adventures - CM1 Test of the Warlords - CM3 Sabre River - CM4 Earthshaker! - CM5 Mystery of the Snow Pearls - CM6 Where Chaos Reigns - CM8 The Endless Stair Masters Level Adventures - M5 Talons of Night Hollow World - Hollow World Boxed Set - HWA1 - Nightwail - HWA2 - Nightrage - HWA3 - Nightstorm - Kingdom of Nithia - The Milenian Scepter - The Milenian Empire AD&D - Hail The Heroes boxed set - Night of the Vampire boxed set - Mark of Amber Boxed Set - Glantri Kingdom of Magic Boxed Set - Karameikos Kingdom of Adventure Boxed Set - Red Steel Boxed Set - Savage Baronies Boxed Set - Joshuan's Almanac and Book of Facts (the first in the Poor Wizard's series) - DM Survival Kit ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 30 Dec 2002 to 31 Dec 2002 (#2003-1) **************************************************************