Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 7 May 2003 to 8 May 2003 (#2003-121) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 09/05/2003, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 6 messages totalling 450 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Price tables (2) 2. Wizards of the Coast needs Mystara 3. Elven Sundering 4. Digest Broken 5. Help! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 11:30:18 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: Price tables As we all no doubt know, money and prices have been handled very badly in OD&D. The price lists in the old "Sets" and in the Cyclopedia are very short and self-contradictory - especially regarding weapons. That's of course because they have been written to fit the character creation system (3d6 times 10 starting money) and the combat system, where plate mail seems to be the minimun requirement of survival. When it comes to weapon prices, Pasi Anias's article "Item Prices" covers the ground excellently. I'm definitely going to move in that direction if I'm ever to start another campaign. My first and only campaign is still on, after 15 years. Finance is a continuous headache to me, since it is impossible to "rewrite history" when it comes to dominion incomes, construction costs, mercenary costs, armour and weapon prices - all of which are the most off mark. We have played too much with them during the time when I had neither the time nor the inclunation to devise my own system. So I must stick with the official material. But other aspects of finance, the everyday living, are perhaps even more important. Still, being the lazy sod I am, I have been pretty much "winging" the prices for ale, room and board and such. But right now I need some standards, as I have to be able to convey some great economic changes to my players. Namely, the return to inflation-stricken Darokin to note that prices have doubled or tripled, and that nobody wishes to exchange their daros. (Some WIS checks are in order for them to notice the glee in the eyes of the innkeeper if they pay with strong foreign currency, boosting the entrepeneurs profits.) So I "cannibalised" Pasi's excellent article, changed it a bit and added some stuff. (Thanks a lot, Pasi.) It would be nice if you could see it through, comment on it and make some further additions. Also, is you think that some prices are off the mark, note it. I think we all would benefit greatly if we collectively gathered an extensive price list for everyday items and services. Valuable additions to the list would be the prices/rent of houses in cities, long-term hired help like servants, luxury items, tools of the trade for various crafts, basic materials like textiles, wood etc. - Ville -------- TENTATIVE PRICE LIST Rented room (1 month): - beggars and such 4 - peasant, poor student 8 - middle class 12-15 - rich 30 - extravagant - 50 to 200 or higher Note 1: "extravagant" lodgings can be found only in capitol-level cities. They include good meals, servants and such. Note 2: Other prices can of course range depending on whether the room includes other services like food, laundry, security (guards) and such. For example, a beggar could make do with 2 gp (20 sp) per month, using his/her remaining coppers for some food. A room in an inn (1 day, 1 person, with stables and 1 meal) - peasant 0,5 - middle class 1 - rich 2 - extravagant 5-10 (large cities only) Note: Again the prices may range depending on the service level of the establishment. Inn prices also vary greatly due to their location: inns that are close to heavily used trade routes in wilderness or borderland areas tend to tax their customers greatly. A bed in the common room - 0,05-0.1 Foodstuffs for one day (examples) - poor 0.03-0.05 (oatmeal, beans, fat of pork, some potatoes or turnips) - common 0.1-0.2 (as above, plus some vegetables bread, cheese, fish and/or eggs, with occasional meat) - middle class/rich 0.3-2 (price can go up if you prefer to) Breakfast - poor to middle class 0.01-0.2 - rich 0.5-1 Lunch or dinner - poor to middle class 0.03-0.5 - rich 1-3 - extravagant 5-10 A feast - normal 0.5-10 /person - extravagant 20-30 Wine - common 0.03 a glass or 0.2 a bottle (plus .5-1 for the bottle) - good 0.1-0.3 - excellent 0.2-1 - rare 3-10 Ale - common 0.01-0.03 a pint - good 0.05-0.1 - excellent 0.2-0.3 Hard liquor - regular moonshine 0.05 - run-of-the-mill 0.1 - brandy,whiskey, vodka 0.2-0.5 (regular quality) - the good stuff 1-2 (imported or rare - like dwarven spirits outside Rockhome) A pipe-full of tobacco - poor 0.01 - average 0.02-0.1 - good 0.2 - exquisite 0.3-0.5 (halfling tobacco, Ylari tobacco, spiced varieties) Note: A puch of tobacco would be perhaps 20 pipe-fulls, so a poor person can get a good supply with 2 sp.) Trail rations - normal 2-4 a week - iron 8-15 a week Note: You can survive with 1 gp or less/week if you are content with oatmeal and such Clothing Normal clothes -beggar 0.01-0.1 -peasant 0.1-1 -middle class 1-15 -rich 10-100 Services Mundane help: - dagger/sword sharpening 0.01-0.2 - messenger boy 0.01-1 - shaving 0.01-0.2 - haircut 0.1-1 - bath 0.1-0.5 ("Thyatian baths" are much more expensive of course) - clothes washed 0.03-1 - foretelling 0.1-5 - cleaning 0.05-0.1 - grooming a horse 0.01-0.05 - cleaning shoes 0.01-0.05 (also a form of beggary, so prices vary, especially if "the lad knows many rumours") - guide in a city 0.01-0.5 (depending on the area visited, the legality of actions etc.) - sexual services 0.03-0.1 (backalley) 0.1-0.5 (prostitute) 1-50 (courtisan) Note: Sorry if the last one offends anyone, but it is a sad fact of live in many Mystaran societies. Professional works: - wounds bandaged 0.1-5 - horse shoed 0.1-2 - letter written 0.1-10 - legal services 1-100 - armour tended 0.5-50 Special Help: - Wounds tended by a cleric 10-500 - magical item identified 10-500 - with commands told etc 100-1000 - Foretelling 10-100 Note: These prices depend on the level of magic in one's campaign. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 05:11:13 -0700 From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Wizards of the Coast needs Mystara I joined a few of the other mailing lists, and I must say I think the Mystara list shows the most intelligence and maturity. Maybe because Mystara is the world for D&D veterans. The Ravenloft list was almost completely inactive, but they might be pretty smart too. Angelo __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 13:02:04 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Elven Sundering After reading several articles on the Trees of Life, and elven migrations, I see a hole in several of the theories. If we go back on Mystaros article on the origins of the Ispan peoples, he relates the Shadow Coast elves arriving from underground, escaping a major catastrophe in 1800 BC; right around the time of several large elemental upheavals (like the ones that sundered the Meditor to islands in 1750 BC). These tunnels have never been explored back on, could they originally been used by Meditor or Vyalia? The tunnels would have collapsed behind them in 1750 BC. With the Shiye clan leaving Mealiden, they would have come across the Shadow Coast elves while traveling across the IoD or climbing the plateau. Also, for the True Flower clan, they could have been an early splinter group from the underground passages, one that came up into the plateau on the IoD. This would also explain why they don’t know about Thyatis or Alphatia in M5. Also, the pale complexions of the Wendar, Verdier, Gentle Folk, Icevale, and ShadowElves; this sounds like a very strong racial trait for elves that left for Blackmoor in 3500 BC. The Vyalia were also described as pale, they could be of this line also (it explains their reclusive attitudes to the Greenheight’s in Thyatis and Calarii in Karameikos). Given this line, this would explain why the Verdier left the mainland in ships to find their wood elf cousins the Meditor; they felt they had a responsibility to help them, because of some possible help the Meditor gave them when they suffered from the Blackmoor explosion. Possibly the Meditor re-educated them on the Forest Way of Ilsundal and thus saved their clan. Another point, the elves in Foresthomes in Norwold, they are supposed to be related to the Shiye elves in Alphatia. Could they have the Shiye’s Tree of Life, as they tried to return to Mealiden’s way and settled in Norwold and away from the Shiye’s newly adopted way of life? My main case in point, in CM7 the Trees of Life are all interconnected, if the first one dies, they all will eventually sicken and die. It could also be possible that no Tree of Life can grow and survive outside of Brun. Trying to plant the Shiye’s tree in Alphatia possibly made it sick, and thus you have a bunch of returnist going to Norwold. It also explains the Meditor’s attempts for their own Tree of Life never worked, and so they had to build their own. What are your thoughts? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 11:30:18 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: Price tables As we all no doubt know, money and prices have been handled very badly in OD&D. The price lists in the old "Sets" and in the Cyclopedia are very short and self-contradictory - especially regarding weapons. That's of course because they have been written to fit the character creation system (3d6 times 10 starting money) and the combat system, where plate mail seems to be the minimun requirement of survival. When it comes to weapon prices, Pasi Anias's article "Item Prices" covers the ground excellently. I'm definitely going to move in that direction if I'm ever to start another campaign. My first and only campaign is still on, after 15 years. Finance is a continuous headache to me, since it is impossible to "rewrite history" when it comes to dominion incomes, construction costs, mercenary costs, armour and weapon prices - all of which are the most off mark. We have played too much with them during the time when I had neither the time nor the inclunation to devise my own system. So I must stick with the official material. But other aspects of finance, the everyday living, are perhaps even more important. Still, being the lazy sod I am, I have been pretty much "winging" the prices for ale, room and board and such. But right now I need some standards, as I have to be able to convey some great economic changes to my players. Namely, the return to inflation-stricken Darokin to note that prices have doubled or tripled, and that nobody wishes to exchange their daros. (Some WIS checks are in order for them to notice the glee in the eyes of the innkeeper if they pay with strong foreign currency, boosting the entrepeneurs profits.) So I "cannibalised" Pasi's excellent article, changed it a bit and added some stuff. (Thanks a lot, Pasi.) It would be nice if you could see it through, comment on it and make some further additions. Also, is you think that some prices are off the mark, note it. I think we all would benefit greatly if we collectively gathered an extensive price list for everyday items and services. Valuable additions to the list would be the prices/rent of houses in cities, long-term hired help like servants, luxury items, tools of the trade for various crafts, basic materials like textiles, wood etc. - Ville -------- TENTATIVE PRICE LIST Rented room (1 month): - beggars and such 4 - peasant, poor student 8 - middle class 12-15 - rich 30 - extravagant - 50 to 200 or higher Note 1: "extravagant" lodgings can be found only in capitol-level cities. They include good meals, servants and such. Note 2: Other prices can of course range depending on whether the room includes other services like food, laundry, security (guards) and such. For example, a beggar could make do with 2 gp (20 sp) per month, using his/her remaining coppers for some food. A room in an inn (1 day, 1 person, with stables and 1 meal) - peasant 0,5 - middle class 1 - rich 2 - extravagant 5-10 (large cities only) Note: Again the prices may range depending on the service level of the establishment. Inn prices also vary greatly due to their location: inns that are close to heavily used trade routes in wilderness or borderland areas tend to tax their customers greatly. A bed in the common room - 0,05-0.1 Foodstuffs for one day (examples) - poor 0.03-0.05 (oatmeal, beans, fat of pork, some potatoes or turnips) - common 0.1-0.2 (as above, plus some vegetables bread, cheese, fish and/or eggs, with occasional meat) - middle class/rich 0.3-2 (price can go up if you prefer to) Breakfast - poor to middle class 0.01-0.2 - rich 0.5-1 Lunch or dinner - poor to middle class 0.03-0.5 - rich 1-3 - extravagant 5-10 A feast - normal 0.5-10 /person - extravagant 20-30 Wine - common 0.03 a glass or 0.2 a bottle (plus .5-1 for the bottle) - good 0.1-0.3 - excellent 0.2-1 - rare 3-10 Ale - common 0.01-0.03 a pint - good 0.05-0.1 - excellent 0.2-0.3 Hard liquor - regular moonshine 0.05 - run-of-the-mill 0.1 - brandy,whiskey, vodka 0.2-0.5 (regular quality) - the good stuff 1-2 (imported or rare - like dwarven spirits outside Rockhome) A pipe-full of tobacco - poor 0.01 - average 0.02-0.1 - good 0.2 - exquisite 0.3-0.5 (halfling tobacco, Ylari tobacco, spiced varieties) Note: A puch of tobacco would be perhaps 20 pipe-fulls, so a poor person can get a good supply with 2 sp.) Trail rations - normal 2-4 a week - iron 8-15 a week Note: You can survive with 1 gp or less/week if you are content with oatmeal and such Clothing Normal clothes -beggar 0.01-0.1 -peasant 0.1-1 -middle class 1-15 -rich 10-100 Services Mundane help: - dagger/sword sharpening 0.01-0.2 - messenger boy 0.01-1 - shaving 0.01-0.2 - haircut 0.1-1 - bath 0.1-0.5 ("Thyatian baths" are much more expensive of course) - clothes washed 0.03-1 - foretelling 0.1-5 - cleaning 0.05-0.1 - grooming a horse 0.01-0.05 - cleaning shoes 0.01-0.05 (also a form of beggary, so prices vary, especially if "the lad knows many rumours") - guide in a city 0.01-0.5 (depending on the area visited, the legality of actions etc.) - sexual services 0.03-0.1 (backalley) 0.1-0.5 (prostitute) 1-50 (courtisan) Note: Sorry if the last one offends anyone, but it is a sad fact of live in many Mystaran societies. Professional works: - wounds bandaged 0.1-5 - horse shoed 0.1-2 - letter written 0.1-10 - legal services 1-100 - armour tended 0.5-50 Special Help: - Wounds tended by a cleric 10-500 - magical item identified 10-500 - with commands told etc 100-1000 - Foretelling 10-100 Note: These prices depend on the level of magic in one's campaign. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 12:35:45 -0700 From: Joaquin Menchaca Subject: Digest Broken Hi. I was wondering if we could use 7-bit ascii characters for the subject line specifically. It seems the mail server barfs on non-ASCII Latin-1 (ISO-8859-1) characters used in the Protuguese name of Porto Maldição for instance, when creating digests. - Joaquin Here's what I am getting: > 1. Questions, Porto =?8859_1?B?TWFsZGnn428g?=and > Porto Escorpiao > 2. Help! (2) > 3. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_=5BMYSTARA=5D__________?= > > =?ISO-8859-1?Q?____Questions=2C_Porto_Maldi=E7=E3o_and_P?= > =?ISO-8859-1?Q?orto_Escorpiao?= > 4. Selections from the library of the CFRC (3) > 5. > =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:______=5BMYSTARA=5D_____________Questions=2C_Porto_Ma?= > =?iso-8859-1?Q?ldi=E7=E3o_and_Porto_Escorpiao?= > 6. [MYSTARA] Questions, Porto > =?8859_1?B?TWFsZGnn428g?=and Porto > Escorpiao > 7. > =?iso-8859-1?B?UmU6IFtNWVNUQVJBXSBSZTogW01ZU1RBUkFdIFF1ZXN0aW9ucywgUG9y?= > > =?iso-8859-1?B?dG8gTWFsZGnn428gYW5kIFBvcnRvIEVzY29ycGlhbw==?= __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 23:21:09 -0400 From: Ethan Deneault Subject: Re: Help! > We don't want to lose you, so here is the link... > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091/MMLGuide.html I hope this worked. Thank you! :D Ethan ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 7 May 2003 to 8 May 2003 (#2003-121) **************************************************************