Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 25 May 2003 to 26 May 2003 (#2003-137) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 27/05/2003, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 6 messages totalling 297 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Website Updated Finally (3) 2. Alignements & Mystara 3. Location of Duke/King Stefan's Hunting Lodge? 4. [Mystara]: Unknown supplements ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 20:48:37 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Website Updated Finally Hello, I have finally returned to Norway and have updated my Blackmoor and Mystara website. The "Svenny" and "First Fantasy Review" articles have finally been added. The News, Maps and Gallery sections also have a few new shamelessly stolen items, and the link section has been updated. If anyone has more stuff they want me to release on these pages, just let me know as I have more time for such things now. The sneak preview art has not been added to my site since Dustin asked that that should be kept within our community. Comments and feedback is, as usual welcome! Havard ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 07:37:14 +1200 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Website Updated Finally You forgot to put the web adderss so here it is for those that don't know: http://www.geocities.com/havardfaa/blackmoor.html Chris. Quoting Havard Faanes : > Hello, > Comments and feedback is, as usual welcome! > > Havard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 21:46:10 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Website Updated Finally Thanks, Chris! I always do that :( Havard --- Chris Furneaux skrev: > You forgot to put the web adderss so here it is for > those that don't know: > > http://www.geocities.com/havardfaa/blackmoor.html > > Chris. > > > Quoting Havard Faanes : > > Hello, > > > Comments and feedback is, as usual welcome! > > > > Havard > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 13:53:12 +1200 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Alignements & Mystara Well I thought I would drop in my 2 cents, so cut and pasting from some other mails: Quoting Federico Kaftal : > I have big doubts, however, about Neutral alignements on the axis of > Legality: I can't seem to come up with a sense for not being just "Legal" or > "Chaotic": in other words, Legality seems to me more of a binary [0/1] strangely it makes perfect sence... However I will offer up this interpretation: To me alignment is about a personalities mindset... ***Lawful*** - The rules accepted by the majority of ones own society are all important. ***Neutral*** - The rules of a society are important to abide by but not as important as other stuff. ***Chaotic*** - Other's opinions simply do not feature into the equation. ***Good*** - there is a greater good to be achieved and I am here to help. ***Neutral*** - Good things happen, evil things happen, get over it, I am. ***Evil*** - I am the greater good, all for one and more for me and all that, *OR* just the "vindictive" "nasty" types who care about inflicting pain on others and do it because it is "bad". To me these are not based on what one does but the personality itself. Ironically this means that a Lawful Good person can be capable of great evil (road to hell paved with good intentions and all that) simply if he has been taught that is right and no way of knowing otherwise {lawful}, and he is not doing it for himself {good}(e.g. they are inferior species like cattle etc. therfore what happens to them is of no consequence[he has no way of knowing otherwise remember]). If you apply it this way then it works quite well I find. <<<<< And now for some heavy snipping >>>>> (longwinded sorry) Quoting Eyal Fleminger : > I can't agree with this; this would make paladins non-good by definition > > I still think that "good" does not preclude a > rather "bloodthirsty" offensive action, as long as due care is taken to > protecting the innocent (e.g., an attack on a bandit fort with massive > force, while taking care to avoid injuring hostages) paladins work perfectly in the above definition. The greater good could be elliminating the badies so to speak. Quoting Daniel Gioffre : > This whole discussion has only solidified my belief > that the OD&D system of a Lawful-Neutral-Chaotic axis > is preferable to the "modern" 9-value system. A few > people now have commented on the problems of "regional > bias" when dealing with the differences between good > and evil. eliminated with my definitions > They rightly realize that, having granted > the theo-philosophical premise that good and evil are > culturally determined factors, the value of the > good-evil alignment axis is questionable. if the premise is false then the answer is irrelevent. If Good and evil are objective notions then it's a different kettle of fish as you point out below. > But for those of us who think that both the RW and > Mystara operate on objective definitions of good and > evil, the 9-value system is still a poor choice; I > simply don't think that it makes any sense. I have > never been able to understand categories like lawful > evil and chaotic good. Let's take Robin Hood as an > example of CG (he is cited in the 2nd edition AD&D PH > as an exemplar of CG, as I recall). Robin Hood broke > the laws because they were UNJUST. He did not fight > for a destruction of all laws, but for the restitution > of a rightful ruler and for justice for the oppressed. > So how is he chaotic? I don't know that robin hood was CG in all the stories. It is such a simplified argurment. Lets fit him into my definitions... - he is good, definately believes in a greater good (justice). - Weather he is L/N/C is more unclear. The sherifs laws are not important. The knigs laws are important, but why? because they adhear to his concept of greater good and ensure it. from this we can deduce that to him rules are not important it is only ideals. Therfore he is most likely chaotic, as the rules of others were never very important to him. > The rule of law is the rule of justice. If justice is > not being done by the law, then it is the LAW that is > faulty, not those who oppose it who are chaotic. But: lawful NOT ALWAYS = just no real arguement with the statement above, just on it's applicability to a lawful alignment. > Use of law to enslave or coerce has at its core a > decidedly unlawful perspective... not unlawful, just unjust as law /= justice (perhaps good laws should = justice but that is another debate) Additionally as stated above, one can be good while doing such bad things through ignorance. > to dominate others while remaining free of domination > oneself. So what is this if not chaos? Potentally Lawful and Evil as domination of others often comes through the accepted rules of a society. > "Aha!" you say. "But surely a Lawful Evil character > believes that he is acting with regard to metaphysical > laws...laws that state that killing babies and > oppressing others is 'correct' Where does it say that they think it's right. Some people enjoy doing wrong or feel it neccecary to maintain their own goals. If they know it to be wrong then they are being evil. > whereas altruism and self-sacrifice are 'incorrect'. silly maybe, but not incorrect. I'm sure they can find a use for them if they are so willing to give and sacrifice themselves :D > True, but in a world > with objective moral values (such as I am assuming), > such belief is FALSE. The "LE" character's opinions > and actions are actually contrary to the moral laws > that govern the world. Quite right. Which is exactly why I made sure to abstract the alignments from absolute moral values or the system does indeed lose much of it's value. > I am sure that many of you, if not all, disagree with > me. :) A well structured arguement Eyal, with well stated assumptions. I couldn't help but pull it to bits :P Please don't take offence, I just thought another spin might prove interesting :D Chris. (who has been very inactive lately) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 18:53:55 -0700 From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Location of Duke/King Stefan's Hunting Lodge? Anyone know if there's an established location for the Duke/King's hunting lodge, described in X12 Skarda's Mirror? If there is no canon location, does anyone have suggestions for placement? Thanks, Magus Coeruleus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 22:50:20 -0700 From: Joaquin Menchaca Subject: [Mystara]: Unknown supplements That would be cool though to get the soft copies, never to press, electronic format for our own digestion. - joaquin __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 25 May 2003 to 26 May 2003 (#2003-137) ****************************************************************