Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 2 Jun 2003 to 3 Jun 2003 (#2003-145) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 04/06/2003, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 13 messages totalling 363 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. does someone remember? (5) 2. Darokin Campaign Ideas 3. MYSTARA-L Re: Darokin campaign ideas? 4. Darokin campaign ideas? (4) 5. Darokin Mafia (2) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 01:00:31 -0700 From: Kar Ess Subject: does someone remember? I've been trying to remember a module? dungeon? whatever... I don't know if it was in Dungeon, Dragon, or a separate module. It involved four dragons and a map ... that's all I remember. Can anyone point me in the right direction? KS __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 07:45:52 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: does someone remember? > > From: Kar Ess > I've been trying to remember a module? dungeon? whatever... > I don't know if it was in Dungeon, Dragon, or a separate module. > It involved four dragons and a map ... that's all I remember. Can anyone > point me in the right direction? > KS > I remember playing an adventure from Dungeon Magazine that involved several dragons. 1 Black, 1 Green, and 2 Reds in a volcanoe north of Waterdeep. There was also an ODD module that did not have much of a background. It came out around the same time as Thunder Rift, Dragon's Den? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 05:36:07 -0700 From: SUBSCRIBE MYSTARA-L hammer_of_ulric Subject: Re: does someone remember? On Tue, 3 Jun 2003 07:45:52 -0400, Chris Cherrington wrote: > I remember playing an adventure from Dungeon Magazine that involved several dragons. 1 Black, 1 Green, and 2 Reds in a volcanoe north of Waterdeep. There was also an ODD module that did not have much of a background. It came out around the same time as Thunder Rift, Dragon's Den? Dragons' Den was in a large box, with map sheets, cardboard figures, and a mini treasure hunting game. Still got it somewhere. Very cool game. My kids loved it when we gave it a go. Hammer of Ulric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 06:23:17 -0700 From: Kar Ess Subject: Re: does someone remember? The adventure from Dungeon Mag, do you remember the title, part of the title, or anything that might help when I do a search? KS --- Chris Cherrington wrote: > I remember playing an adventure from Dungeon Magazine that involved > several dragons. 1 Black, 1 Green, and 2 Reds in a volcanoe north of > Waterdeep. There was also an ODD module that did not have much of a > background. It came out around the same time as Thunder Rift, Dragon's > Den? > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:13:47 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: does someone remember? > > From: Kar Ess > > The adventure from Dungeon Mag, do you remember the title, part of the > title, or anything that might help when I do a search? > KS > I will have to go through my storage boxes and look it up. The Dungeon Mag would have to be around 1984 or 1986, that was when I was a player in Waterdeep. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:33:11 +0100 From: colin wilson Subject: Re: Darokin Campaign Ideas Regarding the criminal Darokin idea I've got someting of the sort going at the moment. I've picked up the old 'Veiled Society' module and moved it to Darokin City. IMC the society is an international criminal organisation who tailor the type of crime to the type of country (mafia-esque). I've replaced the Radu family with the Lintons and the Vorlois with the Hallonicas. Seems to be going well thus far. Col. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 17:50:54 +0200 From: Morten Greis Subject: Re: MYSTARA-L Re: Darokin campaign ideas? > Geoff Gander wrote: > > Or, he can be more of a berserker warrior than a simple rustic: a > warrior from Soderfjord might qualify for the role. > Or how about a tribesman from the Atruaghin Clans? Sort of like an American Native in Imperial Britain - I believe the stereotype fits better than a viking among Merchants stereotype :-) Shawn Johnson wrote: > > Something I've always noticed about the Darokin Gaz is that it fails > to describe any unsavory parts of Daro society. I can't imagine such > a prosperous society without imagining it being plagued by widespread > theft, racketeering and organized crime. Just gambling and prostitution > alone would likely warrant huge crime syndicates in many parts of Darokin. > So my response to your request is to keep adventure or campaign opportunities > involving crime syndicates in mind, because the possibilities are almost > infinite. Here's a few of them: > > > Another equally interesting theme for a Daro campaign would be > political corruption. The Gaz also failed to even touch on this one > either---apparently there is none as TSR envisioned Darokin. But if > introduced, it opens the > way for situations like these: > I've always liked the idea of not having Darokin steeped in Thieves guilds and massive political corruptions. Trading nations/cities run by thieves guilds seems rather archtypical to me. Instead I would suggest that the prostitution and racketeering a the dark sides of the Merchant Houses. That they simply employ raw monetary and political power, that any trade goes - it's just a matter of how public it is done - and certain things aren't too much in use, such as assassins, "I don't use 'em, you don't use 'em" (but you always make sure that you have some handy as a deterrent). 'Wars' between the houses a fought in alleys and backstreets to test strengths. In this interpretation no house is either good or evil, rather each house has a set of ethic rules, that they assume each member abides. Most houses share these rules and the rules are within the laws of Darokin. That also assumes that each house has a shadow side, that isn't publicly recognozed but is still a source of income (sort of like each house has its own thieves guild department). There are still thieves guilds, thugs for hire and beggar societies but with a lot less power. The guilds are more like groupings of small gangs in conflict with both the law and each house's Black Op group, sometimes hired by one house to harass another. As such there isn't 'political corruption' - it is a part of the system. If you have the power and resources, then it is part of the system. Things become more ruthless, but it only sharpens the merchants' and diplomats' edge, which they need to remain a nation deeling in diplomacy. And as a curiosity. Quite a few on the list has suggested problems with the elves and human-elf wars (a cool thing, especially as it is so non-standard fantasy), but how about 'sleeping companies'? Elves are very longlived and at times they loose interest in their projects or let them lie for a few decades. So an elf could start up a trading company, kepp it running for 50 or 80 years and then let it lie dormant for perhaps 400 years and then start it up again, causing a lot of problems with taxes, interests, trading rights that are still valid, but defined by old and forgotten laws. About all for now, Morten ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 13:18:28 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Darokin campaign ideas? Shawn Johnson wrote: Something I've always noticed about the Darokin Gaz is that it fails to describe any unsavory parts of Daro society. I can't imagine such a prosperous society without imagining it being plagued by widespread theft, racketeering and organized crime. Just gambling and prostitution alone would likely warrant huge crime syndicates in many parts of Darokin. So my response to your request is to keep adventure or campaign opportunities involving crime syndicates in mind, because the possibilities are almost infinite. Here's a few of them: I've always liked the town of Mar, down on the border with the Shires, just for this reason. It's a den of iniquity, where criminals from across the continent can go to lay low, and trafficks in all manner of illegal goods both to and from the Shires (and via the less reputable areas/people in Shireton Port). Another good location is the Tenobar region, which, IMO, is just a few shades more "legit" than Jaibul in Sind. Mystaros' Westerlands stuff (which someone else mentioned) adds a great deal of spice to the region, but in any case, I think the whole Borderlands region of Tenobar lends a nice "smuggler's haven" sort of atmosphere. For that matter, any of the Borderlands regions can be a lot more interesting than the (unfortunate, but understandable) development they were given in the Gaz. I love the gaz, but it's just screaming to be more thoroughly developed. The Borderlands dominions are really just petty feudal holdings, and can provide a nice amount of "culture shock" for characters that hail from the more urban regions of the Heartlands. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 17:05:58 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: Darokin campaign ideas? I like the ideas presented for the mafia type of houses in Darokin, it definitely adds a flavor to Darokin. As far as prostitution and gambling, they would only be illegal if they are not registered members of the Guild Hall or not paying taxes if they are members. Otherwise I would say these are not illegal activities. After all, prostitution is the oldest profession, and could be considered a form of art in Darokin. As far as I know, if it can be sold for a profit, then it isn’t illegal in Darokin. With thieves’ guilds, I would say the DDC would be the mafia in all the other nations of the world. After all, they want to protect their own interests and have already established territories within Darokin, or perform friendly competition with one another in the markets; but abroad that’s when the real finesse is necessary for a mafia type DDC. The main criminal activities would not be for larceny or fencing, but for making sweeter deals for Darokin merchants. Racketeering, laundering, getting around duties and/or exchanges, smuggling illegal product, et. They would make sure the docks and market places are loaded with good boys, reporting product numbers, ‘dropping’ cases, keeping an ear out for sudden surges, and pulling a little protection at the warehouses. The DDC would even work with other thieves’ guilds, giving them a cut, much like the Italians working the Irish. Of course back in Darokin, everything is legit, and such actions are protected by laws or an unw ! ritten code of conduct of the Merchant’s Consortium. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 19:20:32 -0400 From: Christopher M Cherrington Subject: Darokin Mafia Doing a quick search on Mafia in history, I see that this fits very well into Darokin's history. Just read this link http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpages/RefArticle.aspx?refid=761571857#endad s Darokin just goes the step further of concealing its illegal enterprises and takeovers as "business as usual". Cities like Tenobar are still being contested, each "Boss" blaiming the current situation on "outsiders" or other nations influences (Irendi pirates and such). Of course, this just involves spinning a little twist on things. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 22:26:31 -0400 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Darokin campaign ideas? Shawn wrote: This is a very good point! IMC, I had the western end of Darokin City (on the west side of the Streel River - aptly named the West End) be the nasty side of the capital city. Since it is not technically part of the city, it's not patrolled regularly by the city watch (they wouldn't hang around there after dark anyway), and all access points to the more respectable eastern side are closed at sundown. In the West End, a person can buy drugs, bet on pit fights, buy slaves, fence stolen goods, hire a prostitute, and basically do anything that would land a person in jail on the eastern side. Even the cream of society have been known to go to the West End to indulge their less savoury habits (not that they would ever admit to it, and wouldn't it be a scandal if such behaviour were uncovered - there's an adventure hook for you: the PCs must destroy all evidence that their employer had some fun over there, or they might be given the task of digging up the dirt on a political opponent). IMC anyway, it was Darokin City's seamy underside - the part no one wanted to talk about. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 22:45:40 -0400 From: Christopher M Cherrington Subject: Re: Darokin Mafia Darokin Mafia would be more appropriate in the years 800-960 AC. This is a rough time for nobility, corruption and fierce feuding would create a prime environment for a mafia to be born. If based on the highly romanticized and un-historical view that mafia was the "man's man". Eventually the subtleties would be replaced with true earnings of profit, but the more chaotic aspects would be placed into the DDC for cheating the outsiders and not their fellow country men. In a modern Darokin, a newer merchant may find it hard to grow in power without knowing the secrets of a mafia brotherhood within the inner circle of the Merchant's Consortium. With most of the un-chivalrous virtues replaced with unwritten rules, including the vow that merchants make for not sharing their spells or knowledge to outsiders under the pain of death. Instilling the romanticized "Secrets of Masonry" as a subtle view of the Omertà. Other nations would unwittingly be host to the more organized aspects of the DDC's chaotic influence. Glantri gave a good example of this, Thyatis is rampant with bribery, much like the political situation of Sicily at the height of the mafia in history. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 23:20:06 -0400 From: colin langille Subject: Re: Darokin campaign ideas? > Geoff Gander wrote: > > This is a very good point! IMC, I had the western end of Darokin City (on > the west side of the Streel River - aptly named the West End) be the nasty > side of the capital city. Since it is not technically part of the city, > it's not patrolled regularly by the city watch (they wouldn't hang around > there after dark anyway), and all access points to the more respectable > eastern side are closed at sundown. In the West End, a person can buy > drugs, bet on pit fights, buy slaves, fence stolen goods, hire a > prostitute, and basically do anything that would land a person in jail on > the eastern side. Even the cream of society have been known to go to the > West End to indulge their less savoury habits (not that they would ever > admit to it, and wouldn't it be a scandal if such behaviour were uncovered > - > there's an adventure hook for you: the PCs must destroy all evidence that > their employer had some fun over there, or they might be given the task of > digging up the dirt on a political opponent). IMC anyway, it was Darokin > City's seamy underside - the part no one wanted to talk about. There's one idea I haven't seen mentioned yet (apologies if I've missed it somewhere). I just started an urban-only Darokin City campaign involving PCs of, shall we say, questionable morality. The party is small (only two PCs), from a small town to the north near Corunglain, come to the big city to make their fortunes, however they may. No previous ties to any organisation. It has been a great deal of fun all around, heavy into role-playing, little combat (although they have become quite proficient at dumping corpses into the Streel). Has anyone else out there tried this? Colin _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 2 Jun 2003 to 3 Jun 2003 (#2003-145) **************************************************************