Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 10 Jun 2003 to 11 Jun 2003 (#2003-152) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 12/06/2003, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 7 messages totalling 434 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. NoS: Altered by Immortals or Old Ones? (3) 2. Rolemaster 3. X10 - Red Arrow, Black Shield - Miissing info! SPOILERS! (3) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:16:02 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: NoS: Altered by Immortals or Old Ones? Hi, The NoS has been altered at least twice. The first time, it was changed by the Old Ones from a regular Space Ship engine into a magical artifact. The second alteration was made by Noumena to make it drain magic in order to retain balance between the spheres. It seems logical that it was the first alteration which also made the NoS able to produce immortals. which means the Shadowelves Gaz is wrong. Unless someone else messed with it aswell (Not mentioned in Canon though). AFAIK, the only person to have achieved Immortality through the radience is Rad. He obviously discovered this process, and may have "tinkered" with the radience to obtain that result... Havard --- Ramses Ramirez skrev: > MML, > > The WoTI boxed set seems to conflict with > information stated in GAZ13: The Shadow Elves. In > WoTI:Book Two (p.7) it states that an Old One had > altered the NoS to be able to grant immortality "to > those who fully mastered it secrets..." > > However GAZ13 says that it was the Immortals of the > Sphere of Energy and not the Old Ones (p.9) who had > altered the NoS to be able to sponsor Immortals of > the Sphere of Energy.. Afterwards, the other Spheres > had connived to put the magic drain "curse" on > Mystara.. > > Does anyone know which was the intended "correct" > explanation of the origins of the NoS/Radiance? I am > kinda leaning towards WoTI superseding GAZ13 since > the former did come out after the latter.. Any > ideas? Thanks! > > Lancer > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:22:45 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Rolemaster Hi Erewan! First of all: why? Why do you want to use Rolemaster? Okay, sorry about that. Its just that I think its a bad choice, but I can stil try and help you out. First rule for conversions: Dont do everything at the same time. Start your campaign as soon as possible. This means that you should convert only what is neccesary for you to begin the campaign, and then as you discover you need more stuff, convert it as you go. Think about it, how many times have you had any need for the stats of most of the official NPCs on Mystara anyways? At least with me, the most central NPCs are usually ones of my own creation, and official NPCs are only background figures (with a few exceptions). Coversions other than that shouldnt be too hard. Keep the levels the same and multipy the abilities by 5. The rest you have to do manually. Which classes respond to which is a separate question, but I would just use some common sense there and go with what fits the best. Have fun! :) Havard --- Erewan Laubgaenger skrev: > hello together > me not still back, > but me has some time, that ich will spend to the > list, but i have to read a > lot mails that are still in my mailbox. > > i want to master a mystara campain. > me likes the world, in special glantri & karameikos. > but i want to use the rolemaster roleplaying system > by ICE. > does someone done it before?` > > there ist al lot of work to convert the ad&d / d&d > NPCs to rolemaster. > in special glantri, u have a lot of mages that could > become magicans, > sorcceres, wizards and so on. > > so i look for someon that uses also rolemaster als > standartrules for mystara > campains. > is there someone? > IBON > > -- > +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net > +++ > Bitte lächeln! Fotogalerie online mit GMX ohne > eigene Homepage! > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:28:01 -0700 From: Ramses Ramirez Subject: Re: NoS: Altered by Immortals or Old Ones? Havard Faanes wrote: >>>>> It seems logical that it was the first alteration which also made the NoS able to produce immortals. which means the Shadowelves Gaz is wrong. Unless someone else messed with it aswell (Not mentioned in Canon though). However, the Shadowelves GAZ also implies that there have been only 2 alterations. The difference is that according to GAZ13 the Immortals of the Sphere of Energy altered the NoS to be able to produce immortals for that respective sphere instead of the Old Ones taking that role. GAZ13 then goes on saying that the other spheres conspired to put the magic drain on Mystara. This as you know conflicts with WoTI by denying any Old One involvement with the NoS by implying that it was tinkered soley by the immortals. Lastly, GAZ13 also contradicts WoTI by saying that it was the remaining spheres rather than Noumena which caused the second alteration (the magic drain) on the spheres. This is why I am confused with these two seemingly conflicting sources of info. Is GAZ13 (or WoTI) in error? Was this an oversight? Did the authors change their minds while writing WoTI and meant the WoTI version to supersede GAZ13? Or am I missing something simple for some reason? Thanks! Lancer --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:15:19 +0100 From: Mark Alexander Bertenshaw Subject: X10 - Red Arrow, Black Shield - Miissing info! SPOILERS! Hi - I have recently being looking at X10 for the purpose of review on my web site( ttp://freespace.virgin.net/mark.bertenshaw/mark/RPG/expert.html#9160 ), but I have noticed that there appears to be a few mistakes: SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE On my copy, the Generic City Chase Flow Chart (pg. 7), and the Sayr Ulan map (pg. 29) for that matter are missing letters and numbers, as described on pg. 3. Now, the letters you can make a pretty good guess at (left to right, top to bottom), but the location of the numbers aren't clear at all. And as well as that, I suspect that there is supposed to be some other text - maybe directions, since it is not obvious how you are supposed to described the alternative paths the PCs are able to take at each intersection. Can anybody enlighten me? As well as this, I noticed that there is absolutely no explanation of how the Master got resurrected, how he managed to get from level 14 to level 30 in a couple of years (this is a sequel to X4 and X5), and most of all, why the hell he now looks like the late Ayatolla Khomeini!! If you examine the adventure, the Master's defeat seems ridiculously contrived. Whilst on diplomatic business in both Alfheim and the Five Shires, the players just happen to come across a part of the artifact they require. And when Laran appears, they just happen to be in pursuit distance of the third part of that artifact. Ok - I know that "the Immortals" are involved, but this is too much! But despite these problems, I rather like this adventure. At least we got a decent overview of the "Expert Game world" ... before TSR managed to contradict a lot of it. It's a shame it couldn't be expanded to a Gazetteer before the Gazetteers came along. -- Mark Bertenshaw Kingston upon Thames UK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:32:48 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: Re: NoS: Altered by Immortals or Old Ones? > This is why I am confused with these two seemingly > conflicting sources of info. Is GAZ13 (or WoTI) in > error? Was this an oversight? Did the authors change > their minds while writing WoTI and meant the WoTI > version to supersede GAZ13? Or am I missing > something simple for some reason? Thanks! > > Lancer The problem is simple: Mystara is an extremely self-inconsistent game world. To put together all the various versions would be writing a Mystaran equivalent to "Silmarillion". Unfortunately, adding the fact that everyone on this list writes his/her material using his own interpretation of the way to resolve the bugs... ...we'll never get out of the mess. 8-) Some of us love this world for that. 8-) Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: 6MB di spazio gratuito, 30MB per i tuoi allegati, l'antivirus, il filtro Anti-spam http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:13:21 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: X10 - Red Arrow, Black Shield - Miissing info! SPOILERS! > > From: Mark Alexander Bertenshaw > > SPOILER SPACE > > > As well as this, I noticed that there is absolutely no explanation of how > the Master got resurrected, how he managed to get from level 14 to level 30 > in a couple of years (this is a sequel to X4 and X5), and most of all, why > the hell he now looks like the late Ayatolla Khomeini!! > His appearance reflects the RW time frame of when this module was created. Not to start a flame war, but this module was made as a parady of the RW conflicts going on at the time. This also connects the Ylari to Hule, they were described as distantly related, though no other cannon material supports this. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:00:08 -0700 From: David Keyser Subject: Re: X10 - Red Arrow, Black Shield - Miissing info! SPOILERS! > > On my copy, the Generic City Chase Flow Chart (pg. 7), and the Sayr Ulan map > (pg. 29) for that matter are missing letters and numbers, as described on > pg. 3. Now, the letters you can make a pretty good guess at (left to right, > top to bottom), but the location of the numbers aren't clear at all. And as > well as that, I suspect that there is supposed to be some other text - maybe > directions, since it is not obvious how you are supposed to described the > alternative paths the PCs are able to take at each intersection. Can anybody > enlighten me? > I don't remember this, but I can check on that. > > As well as this, I noticed that there is absolutely no explanation of how > the Master got resurrected, If you know X4 and X5, I don't see why you feel an explanation is necessary. The Master is cleary a chosen favorite of his patron Immortal, and his life force and soul are clearly not bound by normal life and death, as you can see from reading about his avatar and original body in X5. At the end of X10 it is clear he was given another chance by his patron. > how he managed to get from level 14 to level 30 > in a couple of years (this is a sequel to X4 and X5), This is a rather common complaint for NPCs that appear across multiple supplements. The NPC didn't advance any levels/not enough levels/too many levels for the corresponding timeframe. Another complaint I have never understood. What is the acceptable rate and who gets to decide what that rate is? Actually, with D&D 3E, two years for 16 levels is slow. In any case, the Master has been around for hundreds of years. More than enough time to reach level 30. The avatar in X4 and X5 could simply be a vessel for only part of his strength and life force. In X10 the Master is his fully powered self in his final push for immortality. You can always tone down the level to 20 or whatever you feel is right. The players can only defeat him one way and his level isn't that important. > and most of all, why > the hell he now looks like the late Ayatolla Khomeini!! > An artifact from the module being published in the '80's. Feel free to disregard the artist's portrayal. Although it looks like the US and Iran may go into conflict again, so the Ayatollah as the bogeyman may make a comeback. > > If you examine the adventure, the Master's defeat seems ridiculously > contrived. Whilst on diplomatic business in both Alfheim and the Five > Shires, the players just happen to come across a part of the artifact they > require. And when Laran appears, they just happen to be in pursuit distance > of the third part of that artifact. Ok - I know that "the Immortals" are > involved, but this is too much! > It is clear that the Master and his Immortal backers are trying to keep the artifact out of meddling hands. It isn't a coincidence that the artifact pieces are in the hands of spectres, or that the red dragon just recently took over the elven tomb. It was the Master's method of protecting the pieces until he could reach them himself. But this part of the adventure is just begging to be fleshed out more. Give the players clues and leads to the locations so that it doesn't seem like the pieces are just waiting to be picked up. Have the players race the Master's forces to the location of the third piece, and if they get there first have the Master's force waiting outside to besiege them. > > But despite these problems, I rather like this adventure. At least we got a > decent overview of the "Expert Game world" ... before TSR managed to > contradict a lot of it. It's a shame it couldn't be expanded to a Gazetteer > before the Gazetteers came along. > > Having played it through once, the biggest problems I have seen are more to do with the large scale battles - 1) By the time the players had been to every nation and returned to Darokin, most of the fighting was over and the Master's armies had been all but wiped out. Ylaruam and Ethengar went over to the Master, the rest of the nations sided with Darokin. The forces of the Shires, Alfheim and Rockhome are more than enough to push the Master's forces out. Ethengar and Ylaruam are easily contained, although Selenica was occupied for a while. If you use the maps from the Darokin gazeteer, and the fortresses there, the Master's forces have even more problems. Pushing through the Darokin fortresses on either side of the lake is very difficult. In my game it meant the final battle near Sayr Ulan was less urgent. 2) The players expeditionary force is badly outclassed by the Masters Legion of Doom with direct air support and Immortal strength magic. Not a huge problem, but the players may feel like they are set up to fail that battle. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 10 Jun 2003 to 11 Jun 2003 (#2003-152) ****************************************************************