Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 23 Aug 2003 to 24 Aug 2003 (#2003-208) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 25/08/2003, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 9 messages totalling 647 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Vanya Jennite warrior? (3) 2. Vanya Jennite warrior?Avatars... (5) 3. Trio to Australia and New Zealand ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 19:03:06 +1200 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Vanya Jennite warrior? > I was just reading the hundred mails i missed during my lack of internet > access; I stumbled upon a statement about a source putting forward Vanya > as a Jennite warrior princess. > I see a very convenient way to have this true too. Let's assume that > under a mortal identity of a jennite warrior, Vanya achieved once again > immortality... > this could open also various possibilities regarding old ones, but i let > this discussion for later. That makes me think of something, to become an old one one must give up their immortal status and return to the mortal world to start from scratch. Now this is a very risky thing to do. So what if instead some immortals split off some of their life force and create avatars that are essentially mortals that start from scratch. By implanting particular traits in their genes they can essentally guide what they are likley to become. The immortal however would not be able to know were the avatar had gone as the spirit is independant of them. Immortals engaging in this kind of activity would likely keep an eye out for these "avatars" and often aid adventurers because of the chance they could acctually be them reborn, but would have difficulty being able to find out for certain. If the avatar dies, their life force is returned to the immortal along with all the memories of that mortal life. Depending on the status attained and the streangh of personallity and experiences it may or may not effect the immortal much. On the other hand if the avatar acctually attains imortality the two life forces may combine (provided they are complemetary enough) greatly incrasing the immortals power. Alternatly they might combine, establishing a link between them but appearing to stay seperate. The activity should be fairly draining from an immortal point of view and so should be fairly rare but it could also be massively benificial. It could also lead to an interesting situation where the same immortal could attain ranks in different spheres at the same time. Immortals that become extremely powerful in this way might eventially be called past the void by the old ones to join them. It's definatly an interesting idea and would give some immortals a good reason to aid adventurers. Chris. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 11:36:36 +0200 From: Thibault Sarlat Subject: Vanya Jennite warrior?Avatars... I'm now back from lurking mode since i got my DSL back. I do like what you said Chris. Though there's one thing i would like to ask you all: -Does a mortal identity earn experience (at a mortal rate of course) for the immortal who created it? If so what could prevent an immortal from having a full party of top level adventurers searching and bringing him back lost artifacts and relics to further his own ends(he could easily spot them, follow them and help them)? Mystara would then become a battlefield where clans and cliques would battle regardless of the consequences (no direct action right?). Of course, an immortal cannot have countless mortal ID on Mystara, but yet this could wreak havoc... Now follow my thought . If we assume that several (not countless) ID can be sent wandering Mystara, then the status of Avatar should not only have a chance of bringing back more info and XP, but also would cost more at the beginning in term of creation costs... Maybe immortals should only be allowed to create avatars a certain number of times per millenium...thus recent immortals would not have the possibility to do such a move.... Thibault Sarlat. ICQ 16622177. Personal homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st thibault.sarlat@wanadoo.fr ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Furneaux" To: Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 9:03 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Vanya Jennite warrior? > > I was just reading the hundred mails i missed during my lack of internet > > access; I stumbled upon a statement about a source putting forward Vanya > > as a Jennite warrior princess. > > I see a very convenient way to have this true too. Let's assume that > > under a mortal identity of a jennite warrior, Vanya achieved once again > > immortality... > > this could open also various possibilities regarding old ones, but i let > > this discussion for later. > > That makes me think of something, to become an old one one must give up their > immortal status and return to the mortal world to start from scratch. Now this > is a very risky thing to do. > > So what if instead some immortals split off some of their life force and create > avatars that are essentially mortals that start from scratch. By implanting > particular traits in their genes they can essentally guide what they are likley > to become. The immortal however would not be able to know were the avatar had > gone as the spirit is independant of them. > > Immortals engaging in this kind of activity would likely keep an eye out for > these "avatars" and often aid adventurers because of the chance they could > acctually be them reborn, but would have difficulty being able to find out for > certain. > > If the avatar dies, their life force is returned to the immortal along with all > the memories of that mortal life. Depending on the status attained and the > streangh of personallity and experiences it may or may not effect the immortal > much. > > On the other hand if the avatar acctually attains imortality the two life > forces may combine (provided they are complemetary enough) greatly incrasing > the immortals power. Alternatly they might combine, establishing a link between > them but appearing to stay seperate. > > The activity should be fairly draining from an immortal point of view and so > should be fairly rare but it could also be massively benificial. It could also > lead to an interesting situation where the same immortal could attain ranks in > different spheres at the same time. Immortals that become extremely powerful in > this way might eventially be called past the void by the old ones to join them. > > It's definatly an interesting idea and would give some immortals a good reason > to aid adventurers. > > Chris. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 12:54:31 +0000 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Vanya Jennite warrior?Avatars... Thibault Sarlat wrote: > I'm now back from lurking mode since i got my DSL back. > > I do like what you said Chris. Though there's one thing i would like to ask > you all: > > -Does a mortal identity earn experience (at a mortal rate of course) for the > immortal who created it? Yes, 1 PP per 40.000 XP, IIRC. > If so what could prevent an immortal from having a > full party of top level adventurers searching and bringing him back lost > artifacts and relics to further his own ends(he could easily spot them, > follow them and help them)? Nothing, except the interferences of rival immortals and any other concerns the immortal might have. > Mystara would then become a battlefield where > clans and cliques would battle regardless of the consequences (no direct > action right?). Of course, an immortal cannot have countless mortal ID on > Mystara, but yet this could wreak havoc... Well, many immortals already have mortal ID active somewhere. I suppose that they prefer to keep a low profile, though, in order to avoid detection by other immortals. > Now follow my thought . If we assume that several (not countless) ID can be > sent wandering Mystara, then the status of Avatar should not only have a > chance of bringing back more info and XP, but also would cost more at the > beginning in term of creation costs... > Maybe immortals should only be allowed to create avatars a certain number of > times per millenium...thus recent immortals would not have the possibility > to do such a move.... That's a possibility. Also, you might rule that an Immortal does not have infinite parallelism to work with -- i.e., he can only control a certain number of different mortal IDs/manifestations/etc, and each mortal ID reduces the performances of the "main" thought process, so that an Immortal with too many IDs active may find it difficult to keep on its basic immortal functions, such as communing or providing powers/omens/spells to his followers. As a side note, all of this would not apply to Chris' Avatar idea, which is more in the line of things like the "children of the immortals" or Birthright's "scions". Bye, GP -- di nuovo come un tempo sopra l'Italia intera urla il vento e soffia la bufera ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 16:43:46 +0200 From: Thibault Sarlat Subject: Re: Vanya Jennite warrior?Avatars... thanks for the info, but i wonder where you found these numbers (the 40 000XP = 1PP). i've scanned both Immortal rules box and WotI and i found that 1PP= 10 000XP. Is it possible for you to give me the reference (page and all) please. the only difference i found between those two sets of rules is that WotI states that freshly graduated immortal ALL start with 300 PP while the golden box stated that all the XP earned in mortal life would have to be converted at the rate of 1PP per 10 000XP , thus creating a discrepency between the newly awarded immortals. Thibault Sarlat. ICQ 16622177. Personal homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st thibault.sarlat@wanadoo.fr ----- Original Message ----- From: "Giampaolo Agosta" To: Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Vanya Jennite warrior?Avatars... > Thibault Sarlat wrote: > > I'm now back from lurking mode since i got my DSL back. > > > > I do like what you said Chris. Though there's one thing i would like > to ask > > you all: > > > > -Does a mortal identity earn experience (at a mortal rate of course) > for the > > immortal who created it? > > Yes, 1 PP per 40.000 XP, IIRC. > > > If so what could prevent an immortal from having a > > full party of top level adventurers searching and bringing him back lost > > artifacts and relics to further his own ends(he could easily spot them, > > follow them and help them)? > > Nothing, except the interferences of rival immortals and any other > concerns the immortal might have. > > > Mystara would then become a battlefield where > > clans and cliques would battle regardless of the consequences (no direct > > action right?). Of course, an immortal cannot have countless mortal ID on > > Mystara, but yet this could wreak havoc... > > Well, many immortals already have mortal ID active somewhere. I suppose > that they prefer to keep a low profile, though, in order to avoid > detection by other immortals. > > > Now follow my thought . If we assume that several (not countless) ID > can be > > sent wandering Mystara, then the status of Avatar should not only have a > > chance of bringing back more info and XP, but also would cost more at the > > beginning in term of creation costs... > > Maybe immortals should only be allowed to create avatars a certain > number of > > times per millenium...thus recent immortals would not have the > possibility > > to do such a move.... > > That's a possibility. Also, you might rule that an Immortal does not > have infinite parallelism to work with -- i.e., he can only control a > certain number of different mortal IDs/manifestations/etc, and each > mortal ID reduces the performances of the "main" thought process, so > that an Immortal with too many IDs active may find it difficult to keep > on its basic immortal functions, such as communing or providing > powers/omens/spells to his followers. > > As a side note, all of this would not apply to Chris' Avatar idea, which > is more in the line of things like the "children of the immortals" or > Birthright's "scions". > > Bye, > GP > -- > > di nuovo come un tempo sopra l'Italia intera > urla il vento e soffia la bufera > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 13:43:25 -0300 From: Andre Martins Subject: Re: Vanya Jennite warrior? I must tell you that I like your idea. I actually like it so much that I have come up with almost the same ideas for my campaign sometime ago :) As I had more time to think about it so far, I have proposed that Thanatos is doing it and that he has created an avatar and assumed the mortal identity of Vanya, before she was an Immortal. I was coming from the many inconsistencies in her behavior that I had seen, but it is actually quite interesting that, coming from different facts, we both have reached the idea that the same Vanya is involved into avatars and questing for getting as powerful as an Old One. For an old description of my ides, actually, you should check starflung: under http://dnd.starflung.com/adv_camp.html or directly at http://dnd.starflung.com/facade.html . > So what if instead some immortals split off some of their life force and create > avatars that are essentially mortals that start from scratch. By implanting > particular traits in their genes they can essentally guide what they are likley > to become. The immortal however would not be able to know were the avatar had > gone as the spirit is independant of them. This we did different. I was thinking that Thanatos created an avatar in his home plane and, after kidnapping the original Vanya, his avatar took her place. Therefore, he knew who she was, but he refrained from helping as he is planning to get to Hierarch status in more than one Sphere, possibly all of them. If that will make him an Old One, if he ever succeeds, or something else, is something I haven't made my mind yet. Actually, those ideas have been changing in my mind (you can check the last edition of the Tome of Mystara for an old, but more recent point of view) and they have come to a point where I no longer call my world Mystara. I suppose any of you would recognize the source of inspiration behind many things there, but they are also all different, too different to be of interest to most people here. > The activity should be fairly draining from an immortal point of view and so > should be fairly rare but it could also be massively benificial. It could also > lead to an interesting situation where the same immortal could attain ranks in > different spheres at the same time. Immortals that become extremely powerful in > this way might eventially be called past the void by the old ones to join them. Agreed. I'd actually make it more difficult than just creating an avatar, or everybody would be around doing it. It should involve some special rituals, not known by most Immortals, if not by only one or two. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 20:39:07 +0000 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Vanya Jennite warrior?Avatars... Thibault Sarlat wrote: > thanks for the info, but i wonder where you found these numbers (the 40 > 000XP = 1PP). i've scanned both Immortal rules box and WotI and i found that > 1PP= 10 000XP. Is it possible for you to give me the reference (page and > all) please. Master Set, DM's book, should be on page 15, the very last lines of the section on Immortals. However, this is probably superceded by the newer rules set you cite. Bye, GP -- di nuovo come un tempo sopra l'Italia intera urla il vento e soffia la bufera ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 00:31:34 +0200 From: Thibault Sarlat Subject: Re: Vanya Jennite warrior? great and subtle plots!!! but it doesn't do me well since i pictured a changing Vanya in my events for the almanach 1019... yet at this time, maybe i can assume that her soul has just been released by your PC party... this could explain her change of philosophy... let's discuss it privately if you want. tell me how you would like to see the course of events. Thibault Sarlat. ICQ 16622177. Personal homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st thibault.sarlat@wanadoo.fr ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Martins" To: Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Vanya Jennite warrior? > I must tell you that I like your idea. I actually like it so much that I > have come up with almost the same ideas for my campaign sometime ago :) > > As I had more time to think about it so far, I have proposed that Thanatos > is doing it and that he has created an avatar and assumed the mortal > identity of Vanya, before she was an Immortal. I was coming from the many > inconsistencies in her behavior that I had seen, but it is actually quite > interesting that, coming from different facts, we both have reached the idea > that the same Vanya is involved into avatars and questing for getting as > powerful as an Old One. > > For an old description of my ides, actually, you should check starflung: > under http://dnd.starflung.com/adv_camp.html or directly at > http://dnd.starflung.com/facade.html . > > > So what if instead some immortals split off some of their life force and > create > > avatars that are essentially mortals that start from scratch. By > implanting > > particular traits in their genes they can essentally guide what they are > likley > > to become. The immortal however would not be able to know were the avatar > had > > gone as the spirit is independant of them. > > This we did different. I was thinking that Thanatos created an avatar in his > home plane and, after kidnapping the original Vanya, his avatar took her > place. Therefore, he knew who she was, but he refrained from helping as he > is planning to get to Hierarch status in more than one Sphere, possibly all > of them. If that will make him an Old One, if he ever succeeds, or something > else, is something I haven't made my mind yet. Actually, those ideas have > been changing in my mind (you can check the last edition of the Tome of > Mystara for an old, but more recent point of view) and they have come to a > point where I no longer call my world Mystara. I suppose any of you would > recognize the source of inspiration behind many things there, but they are > also all different, too different to be of interest to most people here. > > > > The activity should be fairly draining from an immortal point of view and > so > > should be fairly rare but it could also be massively benificial. It could > also > > lead to an interesting situation where the same immortal could attain > ranks in > > different spheres at the same time. Immortals that become extremely > powerful in > > this way might eventially be called past the void by the old ones to join > them. > > Agreed. I'd actually make it more difficult than just creating an avatar, or > everybody would be around doing it. It should involve some special rituals, > not known by most Immortals, if not by only one or two. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 07:45:36 +0800 From: "Francisco V. Navarro V" Subject: Re: Trio to Australia and New Zealand Ohad, Any chance you'll be making a stop in the Philippines? It's just right around the corner, you know... if you teleport. :) Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ohad Shaham (Morphail)" To: Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 10:30 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] Trio to Australia and New Zealand > Hey all! > just a quick note to say that I will be in australia and NZ starting septembre and probably for 6 months or so. I will be passing through a lot of towns so if any of you are in the region and fancy a game, a discussion about Mystara or anything else, mail me privately. > > Morphail (who being undead, is not afraid to fly on 9-11). > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:55:41 +1200 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Vanya Jennite warrior?Avatars... > > -Does a mortal identity earn experience (at a mortal rate of course) > > for the immortal who created it? > > Yes, 1 PP per 40.000 XP, IIRC. masters DM book suggests that immortals can take mortal form and adventure (i.e. so they can still be like mortal PC's) and that they gain 1 PP per 40.000 XP gained. It is stated in the DM's immortal book that it should be 1 PP per 10,000 XP, explicitly overuling the masters book. This is not stated in the RC. > Well, many immortals already have mortal ID active somewhere. I suppose > that they prefer to keep a low profile, though, in order to avoid > detection by other immortals. I tend to think that they operate like spies would but on a grander scale, developing assets and turning them to aid the immortals goals. And like spies, if everyone knows who you are then you are of less use because you will be watched, but if you can work your way into a promenent position without being made then you are very useful indeed. > That's a possibility. Also, you might rule that an Immortal does not > have infinite parallelism to work with -- i.e., he can only control a > certain number of different mortal IDs/manifestations/etc, and each > mortal ID reduces the performances of the "main" thought process, so > that an Immortal with too many IDs active may find it difficult to keep > on its basic immortal functions, such as communing or providing > powers/omens/spells to his followers. Perhaps to be a mortal of a particular intelegence he has to dedicate that ammount from his own intelegence, which very quickly puts a cap on the number of avatars an immortal is likely to have. The RC seems to indicate that an immortal can only have one form at a time and takes a turn to change between them, but IIRC the immortals books have no such limitation. However the RC also states that in mortal identity it is more difficult for the immortal to function fully and that many immortals do not take mortal form as they do not like to have to limit the powers they can use. > As a side note, all of this would not apply to Chris' Avatar idea, > which > is more in the line of things like the "children of the immortals" or > Birthright's "scions". Deffinatly. There should be no major interaction between the immortal and the mortal with my suggestion, whereas there is with a normal avatar. > the only difference i found between those two sets of rules is that > WotI > states that freshly graduated immortal ALL start with 300 PP while the > golden box stated that all the XP earned in mortal life would have to > be converted at the rate of 1PP per 10 000XP , thus creating > a discrepency between the newly awarded immortals. Well that would be because WotI tried to simplify everything. in the gold box you could start with 300-500 PP so WotI just says eveyone starts with 300 I guess, dispite the fact that if you would have 500PP by gold box rules you probally deserve it. Chris. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 23 Aug 2003 to 24 Aug 2003 (#2003-208) ****************************************************************