Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 4 Sep 2003 to 5 Sep 2003 (#2003-217) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 06/09/2003, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 18 messages totalling 1215 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Cyberboard gamebox for Mystara (2) 2. Years of Fire Campaign Setting (Long) (5) 3. Campaigns through Time (longish) (3) 4. (very long) Taymoran Timeline v. 2.2 (updated revision of Giampaolo's original) (2) 5. Immortals and Avatars (6) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 17:32:14 +1000 From: Bill Clancy Subject: Re: Cyberboard gamebox for Mystara Thibqult Clearly, I havent vistited your site I am in awe, and I will have both me and my researchers taken out and flogged cheers Bill |> -----Original Message----- |> From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On |> Behalf Of Thibault Sarlat |> Sent: Friday, 5 September 2003 4:23 PM |> To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM |> Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Cyberboard gamebox for Mystara |> |> |> this means that you haven't visited my site. feel free to use the maps |> there. |> |> |> Thibault Sarlat. |> |> ICQ 16622177. |> Personal homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st |> thibault.sarlat@wanadoo.fr |> ----- Original Message ----- |> From: "Bill Clancy" |> To: |> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 12:06 AM |> Subject: [MYSTARA] Cyberboard gamebox for Mystara |> |> |> > Folk |> > |> > I am building a Cyberboard map of Mystara using the Gazetteer Maps. To |> fill |> > in some gaps and compensate for my lousy skills at both Cyberboard AND |> > cartography generally, I need some maps of |> > |> > the Heldann Freeholds, |> > that bit to the left (west) of the Atruaghin Clans |> > anything north and west of Glantri |> > |> > all at the 8 mile per hex scale. |> > |> > After a fairly cursory search of the web, i can't find any anything at |> that |> > scale. |> > |> > Hoping you can help. |> > |> > Cheers |> > |> > Bill |> > |> > ******************************************************************** |> > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp |> > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ |> > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM |> > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. |> > |> > |> |> ******************************************************************** |> The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp |> The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ |> To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM |> with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. |> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:43:10 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: Re: Years of Fire Campaign Setting (Long) > >This is something I never thought about, but it > does seem very appropriate. > >I'm going to have to 'borrow' that idea for my own > campaign as well. Perhaps > >ne of the reasons that the Mordrigswerg are so > shunned today is that they > >retain some practices of Outer Being worship... > > Now this is an idea that merits further thought... > ;-) Well, I'm a huge fan of Outer Beings, but sometimes I get the feeling that too many of the dark sides of the Known World are being referred to them. Actually the Entropics should fill the niche of "baddies" more than enough. Moreover, Outer Being involvement, in my idea, would be extremely limited, sometime obscure and hidden, while sometimes it seems that they have a hand in any dark affair of Mystara. In my very humble opinion, sometimes we are so enthusiastic about Outer Beings (they're so cool!) that we use them too much, even when there's no need to. I don't mean to offend anyone or start a flame - I'm a huge supporter of OBs, it's just a side-thought. ===== ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: 6MB di spazio gratuito, 30MB per i tuoi allegati, l'antivirus, il filtro Anti-spam http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:48:06 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: Re: Years of Fire Campaign Setting (Long) John Calvin wrote: the > for-runners of the Modrigswerg turned to other > methods. Some are devil/demon > worshipers, others have embraced "construct > technology/magic" and build > themselves "better bodies". Unfortunately for them > the construct tech relies > on the Radiance, which in turn exacerbates their > problem (and will eventually > bring about the destruction of their race). Heh. > Not having Outer Being cults > among the dwarves is a fact that I intend to > rectify. ;) > The devil/demon worshipers and the "better bodies" ideas are really cool! However, as I said before, I don't like much the idea of lots of dwarven worshipers of Outer Beings. Maybe the occasional Moulder Wizard or a small isolated community far from the Northern Reaches could, but it should remain something limited and preferrably not tied to the reasons that put Modrigswerg dwarves vs. Kagyar dwarves. Just my humble opinion, mind you! 8-) ===== ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: 6MB di spazio gratuito, 30MB per i tuoi allegati, l'antivirus, il filtro Anti-spam http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:54:50 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: Re: Campaigns through Time (longish) --- Mischa Gelman ha scritto: > On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, John Calvin wrote: > > > BC 500 - The Fall of Nithia. What happened to all > of those in Brun that were > > struggling with Nithia when it was finally wiped > out of their memory by the > > immortals. With the end of Nithia there is a vast > power vacuume that must be > > filled. This campaign could cover the fall of > Nithia as well as what happens > > afterward. The Hin regain their freedom. > Humanoid tribes are still a threat > > to the area. A great hoard rises agains the > dwarves, but is destroyed, while a > > hoard of kobolds wipes out the northern gnomes. > > I'm intrigued by this era. Anyone else want to work > on a reference source > for this period? I'd be glad to lend a hand on such > a project but wouldn't > want to go it alone. > > - Mischa James and me has done a good writeup at the situation in Thyatis during those years. You can find it in the history section of the Empire of Thyatis Page, http://www.geocities.com/talerio or maybe somewhere at Shawn's. ===== ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: 6MB di spazio gratuito, 30MB per i tuoi allegati, l'antivirus, il filtro Anti-spam http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 06:25:38 -0500 From: Web Warlock Subject: Re: Cyberboard gamebox for Mystara Yeah Thibault's maps are great. I credit his site, ODDities and this list for really getting me back into playing Mystara. Tim -- Timothy S. Brannan timothy.brannan@comcast.net -- "So many different people to be." - Donovan, Season of the Witch > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On > Behalf Of Bill Clancy > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 2:32 AM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Cyberboard gamebox for Mystara > > > Thibqult > > Clearly, I havent vistited your site > > I am in awe, and I will have both me and my researchers taken out and > flogged > > cheers > > Bill > > > > |> -----Original Message----- > |> From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On > |> Behalf Of Thibault Sarlat > |> Sent: Friday, 5 September 2003 4:23 PM > |> To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > |> Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Cyberboard gamebox for Mystara > |> > |> > |> this means that you haven't visited my site. feel free to use the maps > |> there. > |> > |> > |> Thibault Sarlat. > |> > |> ICQ 16622177. > |> Personal homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st > |> thibault.sarlat@wanadoo.fr > |> ----- Original Message ----- > |> From: "Bill Clancy" > |> To: > |> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 12:06 AM > |> Subject: [MYSTARA] Cyberboard gamebox for Mystara > |> > |> > |> > Folk > |> > > |> > I am building a Cyberboard map of Mystara using the > Gazetteer Maps. To > |> fill > |> > in some gaps and compensate for my lousy skills at both > Cyberboard AND > |> > cartography generally, I need some maps of > |> > > |> > the Heldann Freeholds, > |> > that bit to the left (west) of the Atruaghin Clans > |> > anything north and west of Glantri > |> > > |> > all at the 8 mile per hex scale. > |> > > |> > After a fairly cursory search of the web, i can't find any > anything at > |> that > |> > scale. > |> > > |> > Hoping you can help. > |> > > |> > Cheers > |> > > |> > Bill > |> > > |> > ******************************************************************** > |> > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > |> > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > |> > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > |> > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > |> > > |> > > |> > |> ******************************************************************** > |> The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > |> The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > |> To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > |> with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > |> > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 13:57:50 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Campaigns through Time (longish) --- Mischa Gelman wrote: > I'm intrigued by this era. Anyone else want to work > on a reference source > for this period? I'd be glad to lend a hand on such > a project but wouldn't > want to go it alone. Nithia is an interesting period. It seems that most of my campaigns relate to it somehow. In my current campaign dealing with the return of Arik, I decided that Arik was one of the Immortals responsible for the corruption of Nithia. When the Immortals took action, there was a duel between Ixion and Arik which destroyed Nithia, leaving the Alaiysian desert behind. This is basically a myth and doesnt even have to be true, but it explained some of the things IMC and linked the storyline to Mystaras history. I never liked the erasing from mortal memory thing. IMC Nithia remains at least a myth, although noone knows exact details about its location or what exactly happened. Much better than leaving it as something only the DM knows about IMO... Havard ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 14:05:20 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: (very long) Taymoran Timeline v. 2.2 (updated revision of Giampaolo's original) TAYMORAN TIMELINE V 2.2 by Giulio N. Caroletti based on the work by Giampaolo Agosta, John Calvin and Susan Dornhoff Once again I found myself working on the Taymoran Timeline. The original timeline was written by Giampaolo Agosta in august 2002. In january 2003 I re-wrote it taking in consideration all the information provided by John Calvin in regard to the geological instabilities of southern Brun in the 2000-1500 BC years, and worked toward making the history consistent with the Human Etnography that may also be found at the Vaults of Pandius. This updated version takes also in consideration, for the early history of the Albarendi, the Ierendi Timeline devised by Sharon Dornhoff, and for the early history of werebeasts the Treatise on Lycanthropy by John Calvin. Some comments by Agathokles and Calvin made at the time of the previous version have helped me to make some minor correction to the work. Last but not least, I've chosen to ignore James Mishler's work, as it is too well-detailed and incompatible with other fan-based material to be included. Comments and criticism are welcome. TIMELINE OF TAYMORA 3'000 BC: Skandaharians from Norwold migrate towards the areas of nowadays Known World. They are the ancestors of Antalians, Thantalians, Trantalians and Nantalians. 2'800 BC: The surviving Thonians on southern Brun start rebuilding their civilisation, though most of their technological lore is lost. For the next three centuries, they remain isolated from neighbouring cultures. Many of the people still suffer from destructive forces unleashed by Blackmoor, forces which cause them to slowly rot and die. The Skandaharians tribes collectively known as Thantalians occupy the Northern Reaches. 2'500 BC: Survivors of the Thonian colonies resurface as the Taymorans, a people with bronze age technology among stone age Azcans, Maharians and Skandaharian descended tribes. Most of the Maharian tribes are conquered and assimilated by the Taymorans. Taymoran humans establish bronze age kingdoms in modern southern Darokin, Five Shires, Undersea, eastern Ierendi, and perhaps Minrothad. Most of the eastern Maharian tribes are conquered and assimilated by the Taymorans. Exceptions: Makai (western Ierendi) and those who flee south (eventually to become Varellyans). Taymorans have good metalworking techniques and rich mines of copper and other metals useable for the production of bronze. Probably, they also have rich gold mines. The knowledge of metalworking and other surprising technological and social advancements were preserved during the Great Rain of Fire age by a cadre of Nosferatu followers of Nyx, who allow the Taymoran priesthood of Nyx - who is considered a mother goddess and a protector against the dangers of "light" by the earliest Taymorans - to access this knowledge and establish a power base for themselves. Dunharians and Skandaharians of the Nithian areas are at very early bronze age technology, or perhaps at aeneolithic technology--they have copper and perhaps silver, but no other easily accessed metals. 2'400 BC: The Taymorans use their magic and knowledge of metallurgy to establish a number of trade routes to the west (with Azcans and the ancestors of Huleans) and north (to the newly created Antalian holdings in Heldann). The Antalian culture is now at a Bronze Age development stage in Norwold, thanks to its contacts with the Taymorans through the Streel trade route. 2'350 BC: Taymoran leaders, who are by now mostly priests of Nyx and necromantic wizards, start joining the ranks of the undead, under the tutelage of the original Nosferatu. 2'300 BC: Dunharians fleeing the Skandaharians reach the Isle of Dawn. These become the Dunael. One of the main clans of Skandaharians, known as the Nantalians, follow the Dunharian tribes to the Isle of Dawn. 2'250 BC: The Sheyallia elves reach Taymora. The local Necromancer Kings offer them the lands to the east of their nation, provided that they help opening new trade routes. Elven mercenary companies, armed with Taymoran bronze weaponry, invade the giant-held forests and mountains. They open up the trade routes to nowadays Ylaruam. 2'200 BC: Height of the Taymoran power. Taymoran city-states dot the southern coast. Giantish clans (Fomorians) brought to submission by the joined Taymoran - Sheyallia operations are employed to build megalithic fortresses in Taymora. Silver start flooding the cashes of the Taymoran necromancer kings. Some northern Nosferatu leaders send missions to Hule and beyond, in an attempt to expand their territory. Meanwhile, southern kings send naval expeditions east, to the Isle of Dawn. They attempt to establish colonies, but they are repelled by hostile Giants, Elves, and Dunael (a human race of Dunharian ethnicity). The Dunharians and Skandaharians of Ylaruam and Thyatis have become a new population, known as Trantalians. The elven migrations reach Glantri. The Verdier, Meditor, and Vyalia clans (from the Sheyallia nation) settle the forests to the east of Taymora as vassals to various eastern Taymoran kings. The Nantalian tribes are losing ground to the Dunael. Desperate, they ally themselves with the local Oltec cities, who are in trouble as well. They form a new population, known as Nithians. 2'100 BC: Various necromancer kings develop special servant races, like the albarendi and the lycanthropes (they follow one of the beliefs of their patroness, Nyx, who likes creating new races, especially ones accustomed to a night-based activity cycle). Albarendi were common Taymoran humans bred as albinos by the kings and ending up ostracised by their own people in fear of their link with the undead masters. Lycanthropes are created by some of the most cruel necromancer kings, desperate to keep their minions subjugated. They devise a magical disease which would impart more bestial aspects onto its victims. This is the Mythic Lycanthropy (see John Calvin's "A Treatise on Lycanthropy" for further details). The region now known as Ylaruam is a verdant region of grasses. Southern areas are in control of the Taymoran Empire. Northern areas are settled by Trantalian and Thantalian clans (Neathar tribes related to the Antalians). 2'000 BC: Trantalians, Thantalians and Oltec barbarians cut the trade routes to Antalian lands. The northern Taymoran kings use Malpheggi and Azcan mercenaries in an attempt to reopen the Streel river route, with mixed success. A number of kings try to increase their power by shifting their allegiance from Nyx to Thanatos. The effects are devastating, as the war between followers of the two entropic immortal rages for years. Taymora is politically weakened, and attempts by various kings to expand their holdings in Nithia and on the Isle of Dawn are rebuffed. Some geological instabilities destroy some peripherical areas of Taymora, sinking some areas and creating new islands and land masses. Most Taymoran cities survive, and the Kings foolishly continue their wars. Thantalian and Trantalian tribes begin their rise, having reached bronze age technology. The Nithians flee from the Isle of Dawn to nowadays Ylaruam, under the guidance of the priesthood of Nephthisi. 1'900 BC: The priesthood of Nephthisi guides Nithia to success against the northern threat. A series of conflicts halts the Antalian and Thantalian expansion in the Northern Reaches. Likewise, the Nithians repel Trantalians to the west. Silver mines in the Northern Reaches are exploited. The silver is traded to Taymora, where it pays for the Taymoran bronze. Like modern Ierendi, Taymora has no silver mines, so silver is quite valuable there. 1'850 BC: In Nithia, the militant Priesthood of Rathanos oust the priestesses of Nephthisi from their monopoly of silver trade, as the latter Immortal start losing interest in the Nithians. Aware of the strife going on in Taymora, the Priests of Rathanos extend the mining techniques of the Nithians beyond silver mining. The remnants of the Taymoran culture becomes known as the Land of the Dead, or the Land of the Night, among the Nithians. This is due to its western position, to the persisting geological dangers that ravage those doomed areas that still haven't sunk, but also to its Undead ruling caste. Taymora is known to the Pharaohs as a coalition of many nations - this considers both the Temran (Taymoran) city-states and the vassal or allied nations of elves (Shelash), fomorians (Poymeren), lizard-men (Malepeq), Azcans (Ashkan), and later the Lukka (lycanthropes) and Alpared (Albarendi humans). 1'750 BC: After many years of war between those who had remained loyal to Nyx and those who had turned to the ways of Thanatos (a battle between Nosferatu and Vampires), the core of the Taymoran Empire sinks beneath the waves. Geological disasters-volcanic eruptions and earthquakes, enhanced by the massive magical energies invoked by the warring sorcerers- sink most of the remaining Taymoran lands into the sea, and splinter off much of the rest south of the modern day lands of the Five Shires and the Atruaghin Clans. End of the Taymoran culture. The plateau under which the surviving Azcans have been living largely collapses, killing many of them and leaving the survivors in a shattered, hostile land. 1'740 BC: A wave of fleeing Taymorans hits various locations in the east. The armies that are invading Nithia are routed thanks to the priests of Rathanos, who use fire magic to counter the undead units. Mythic Lycanthropy spreads throughout the Nithian population. Nithian priests begin to alter the disease, trying to lessen and remove its worst effects. Over several decades they are successful in this endeavour, creating Ancient Lycanthropy (for further information on the history of lycanthropy, John Calvin, cit.). Fomorians and Taymorans fleets also reach the Isle of Dawn, where they manage to take hold of the western region. Other Taymoran remnants are found in southern Darokin (Tuma), the Hulean region, Sind (Lycanthropes), Ierendi (albarendi), Vyalia, and Minrothad. A few Albarendi clans also reach the forested Doulakki lands (these will be among the ancestors of the Cynidiceans). 1'720 BC: Land masses split further away, forming ten islands south of the Five Shires. Taymoran remnants attempt to take over Meditor elves in Colhador, are repelled. 1'700 BC: Cataclysms split land masses and ocean floods create islands; Meditor elves are left on the new-made Isles of Dread. The Albarendi have established modest communities on the western islands formed from the destruction of Taymora. They have occasional trade relations with the lizard men, but no formal government beyond village elders. Because the islands' two species, reptilian and human, are active at different times - one by day and the other by night -the Malpheggi and Albarendi cultures seldom come into conflict. Having lost their mines, and the sources of their bronze, the Taymoran remnants turn to iron for their works. The Taymoran smiths captured by the Nithian Pharaoh bring to Nithia the knowledge needed to push the nation towards the Iron Age, thanks to the rich iron mines of the Alasiyan highlands and the high-temperature fires provided by the priests of Rathanos. 1'600 BC: The Taymorans of the Isle of Dawn move further north, until they settle down founding the new culture of the Aseni. These are the ancestors of the Alasyians. 1'500 - 1'000 BC: Nithia conquers all of the Thantalian and Trantalian tribes of nowadays Ylaruam, and parts of the Isle of Dawn. ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: 6MB di spazio gratuito, 30MB per i tuoi allegati, l'antivirus, il filtro Anti-spam http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:44:36 -0400 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Years of Fire Campaign Setting (Long) Giulio said: Very good point. In my works I had never intended the Outer Beings to be a force that permeates every square inch of the campaign setting. Rather, most Mystarans should not be aware of them (in contrast to the evil Immortals, which are generally known to most people, it seems) - that sort of unspeakable knowledge is often confined to scholars, the mentally deranged (who may be more susceptible to the Outer Beings' random thoughts - and no one listens to them, anyway), some (un)lucky adventurers, and of course the standard evil OB cultist. The true horror of the OBs, IMO, is that once a person uncovers their existence, the revelations could shake their understanding of the Immortals and cosmology in general to its foundations. That, and the sheer inhumanity of the OBs, and the "otherness" they and their servitors possess, clearly indicate that they do not obey the rules of a conventional plane of reality, that they do not belong there. IMO, the mortal mind of the prime plane simply can't resolve the inconsistencies, and what is often seen is so hideous, besides. Just my thought on the matter. As an aside, I tried to convey that sense of horror IMC once, and I managed to give a couple of my players the creeps. Their PCs went temporarily insane, and one of them suffered night terrors for weeks as a result (lots of penalties due to fatigue), but he eventually recovered - sort of. He had the nasty habit of suffering traumatic flashbacks every time he saw something that vaguely resembled a flame and tentacle motif. At the same time, I didn't get the sense that John was suggesting widespread OB-worship for the Modrigswerg. I think it would be more than appropriate that some of moulder dwarves venerate the OBs, and do business with their servitors from time to time, but certainly they should still have their dealings with dark elves and the like. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:40:01 -0700 From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Years of Fire Campaign Setting (Long) Giulio, no offense is taken. It's always nice to hear from my favorite Thyatian! Have you been away? It seems to me like we haven't heard from you in a while. >> At the same time, I didn't get the sense that John was suggesting widespread OB-worship for the Modrigswerg. I think it would be more than appropriate that some of moulder dwarves venerate the OBs, and do business with their servitors from time to time, but certainly they should still have their dealings with dark elves and the like. << Yup, Geoff's got the dark of it. There are soooo many ways for the Mordrigswerg to be bad, limiting them to just one form of abominable activities seems wrong. ;) And again... it all depends upon the campaign you're playing. I hope what I'm offering when I post are ideas that other DMs can take and use. I for one don't have a lot of references to the OBs in my campaigns, but it seems like the insanity of the Moulder dwarves presents a nice oppotunity to introduce it. -John ===== Rule #85. I will not use any plan in which the final step is horribly complicated, e.g. "Align the 12 Stones of Power on the sacred altar then activate the medallion at the moment of total eclipse." Instead it will be more along the lines of "Push the button." from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 21:14:32 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: Re: Years of Fire Campaign Setting (Long) --- John Calvin ha scritto: > Giulio, no offense is taken. It's always nice to > hear from my favorite > Thyatian! Have you been away? It seems to me like > we haven't heard from you > in a while. > Not away from the list, but very little involvement. Had to take 2 exams and then was 20 days off, took a good relaxing holiday...but it seems I'll do some work on Mystara these days! Re: Modrigswerg, agree with you. Got your point and Geoff's one. Just making myself sure you hadn't been corrupted by Alphatian magic! 8-) Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: 6MB di spazio gratuito, 30MB per i tuoi allegati, l'antivirus, il filtro Anti-spam http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 13:39:26 -0700 From: John Calvin Subject: (very long) Taymoran Timeline v. 2.2 (updated revision of Giampaolo's original) Ok, I read through once and am quite impressed. I've seen some of the Human Etnography work you have done before, but there is a lot to digest (so please excuse what might be my own ignorance), and I have a few questions about it that I'll ask below. >> 2'200 BC: The Nantalian tribes are losing ground to the Dunael. Desperate, they ally themselves with the local Oltec cities, who are in trouble as well. They form a new population, known as Nithians. << Where does this happen exactly? A later reference seems to indicate that this happens on the IoD. >> 2'000 BC: Thantalian and Trantalian tribes begin their rise, having reached bronze age technology. The Nithians flee from the Isle of Dawn to nowadays Ylaruam, under the guidance of the priesthood of Nephthisi. << This is actually very interesting (and not in a bad way either ;) ). It would suggest that 'Nithia' is not the birthplace of the 'Nithians'. Rather, somewhere on the IoD is. So I guess the question I'm getting at is "What does this mean for the Thothians?" And perhaps also, "Where do Nithian cultural traits (pyramids, mummification, etc) come from?" Do these things originate on the IoD? If they do then that means (or could mean) that Thothia is actually the birthplace of Nithia. In this case Thothia would then probably contain the oldest and most 'accurate' Nithian artifacts. If not, then that means that Nithia picks up its distinctive cultural traits after it leaves the IoD and moves to Mystara. In this case Thothia would most likely be a Nithian colony established much later in the Nithian era. ===== Rule #85. I will not use any plan in which the final step is horribly complicated, e.g. "Align the 12 Stones of Power on the sacred altar then activate the medallion at the moment of total eclipse." Instead it will be more along the lines of "Push the button." from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 15:45:21 -0700 From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Campaigns through Time (longish) >> > BC 500 - The Fall of Nithia. What happened to all of those in Brun that were > struggling with Nithia when it was finally wiped out of their memory by the > immortals. With the end of Nithia there is a vast power vacuume that must be > filled. This campaign could cover the fall of Nithia as well as what happens > afterward. The Hin regain their freedom. Humanoid tribes are still a threat > to the area. A great hoard rises agains the dwarves, but is destroyed, while a > hoard of kobolds wipes out the northern gnomes. I'm intrigued by this era. Anyone else want to work on a reference source for this period? I'd be glad to lend a hand on such a project but wouldn't want to go it alone. << I'm willing to throw out some ideas, but I'm not sure I'd like to head up a project like this. I don't think I have that kind of energy. If you want to just toss some ideas around and see what happens we can either do that on list or off. If off list, feel free to contact me at chimpman.geo@yahoo.com -John ===== Rule #85. I will not use any plan in which the final step is horribly complicated, e.g. "Align the 12 Stones of Power on the sacred altar then activate the medallion at the moment of total eclipse." Instead it will be more along the lines of "Push the button." from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 15:49:03 -0700 From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Immortals and Avatars >> Does the "On the Prime Plane, Direct Action Against Mortals is Forbidden" rule apply also to Immortal's avatars? I am clear on the fact that an Immortal can't just appear on the Prime Plane in his Manifestation form and start slaughtering the mortals he dislikes.. But what about avatars? Does using an avatar to destroy an unliked mortal (or mortals) constitute breaking this rule? Or is it fair game? << My take was that 'mortal identities' could do whatever they wanted. Avatars are something different (if I understand correctly) and that rule would also apply to them. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not currently loking at any source material. -John ===== Rule #85. I will not use any plan in which the final step is horribly complicated, e.g. "Align the 12 Stones of Power on the sacred altar then activate the medallion at the moment of total eclipse." Instead it will be more along the lines of "Push the button." from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:52:33 -0700 From: Rodger Burns Subject: Re: Immortals and Avatars John Calvin wrote on September 05, 2003 3:49 PM: > >> > Does the "On the Prime Plane, Direct Action Against Mortals is > Forbidden" rule > apply also to Immortal's avatars? I am clear on the fact that an > Immortal can't > just appear on the Prime Plane in his Manifestation form and > start slaughtering > the mortals he dislikes.. But what about avatars? Does using an avatar to > destroy an unliked mortal (or mortals) constitute breaking this > rule? Or is it > fair game? > << > > My take was that 'mortal identities' could do whatever they > wanted. Avatars > are something different (if I understand correctly) and that rule > would also > apply to them. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not > currently loking at > any source material. > > -John Oooh! Oooh! Oooh! What a topic to come in on! WotI notes that an avatar is "an exact double with all the abilities of the original Immortal." (Page 74, in case anyone wants to do more in-depth reading.) Since the avatar can use Immortal-level attacks, has Immortal-level immunities, and can cast Immortal-level magic, the First Rule almost certainly applies to them. (Personally, I've found that the best way to handle the First Rule is to look at the _Detect Immortal Magic_ spell. If you're on the Prime and doing something that makes this spell twing, you're doing a Bad Thing. ^_^) Hope this helps! "The best lack all conviction, While the worst are full of passionate intensity." - W.B. Yeats, "The Second Coming" Rodger Burns ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 17:27:09 -0700 From: Ramses Ramirez Subject: Re: Immortals and Avatars I guess my question is why does the "Direct Action Prohibition" exist? Does it exist to prevent just the Manifestation Forms from directly punishing mortals OR is it to prevent the usage all sorts of Immortal-level powers whatsoever including avatars? I want to make this distinction because on p. 5 of WoTI:Codex it states that "all Immortals are forbidden to go to the Prime Plane in Manifestation FOrm in order to accomplish their goals. It is as simple as that." ... It does not say anything to the effect of... "Immortals are forbidden to use any sort of Immortal-level powers including Manifestation forms and avatars on the Prime Plane..etc." My understanding is that it is that the rules are specifically talking about the Manifestation Form. I mean.. Wouldn't it be a waste of an avatar if it can't even use the combat abilities that it was imbued with because of this rule? What's the point of an avatar having combat ablities if it can use them on the Prime? Lancer John Calvin wrote: My take was that 'mortal identities' could do whatever they wanted. Avatars are something different (if I understand correctly) and that rule would also apply to them. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not currently loking at any source material. -John ===== Rule #85. I will not use any plan in which the final step is horribly complicated, e.g. "Align the 12 Stones of Power on the sacred altar then activate the medallion at the moment of total eclipse." Instead it will be more along the lines of "Push the button." from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 17:33:37 -0700 From: Ramses Ramirez Subject: Re: Immortals and Avatars To correct my last sentence of my previous post I meant.. What is the point of an Immortal imbuing an avatar with combat abilities if it CAN'T use them on the Prime Plane? Lancer --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 03:44:19 +0200 From: Richard Eckart Subject: Re: Immortals and Avatars > I mean.. Wouldn't it be a waste of an avatar if it can't even use the combat abilities... The problem with Immortals acting directly on a prime plane is that it can easily lead to utter destruction of the environment and great changes to the ways that history is going. If one Immortal starts taking such a path the others are forced either to watch or also to take direct steps. That can quickly lead to an outright Immortal war crushing the whole world. This is something that the Immortals probably don't want. After all they are some sort of gods and probably draw power from being worshipped and honored by people. So war and destruction could even lead to dimnishing of Immortal power. In the Mystaran world the basic conflict is between order and chaos. No matter what Immortal direct action is, it could easily tip the balance towards chaos. That is probably why the entropic Immortals take direct action on the prime planes more often. But even they have to be careful so they are not brought forcibly to reason by the other Immortals. Furthermore do Immortals often not wish that thier actions and plans become known to other Immortals. But when an Immortals uses his powers on a prime plane that is being watched by many other Immortals, it is probable that one of those might notice his doings and take an interest. So much for in-time reasons. Now to the out-time: Unless the characters are very high level no Immortal should appear at all or only incognito and without using any powers, only giving hints or distracting enemys or such things. An Immortal could be the beggar that makes the city guard trip while chasing a character or something similar. But such things should in my opinion not be known to the charaters. If Immortals appear too often, they loose their mystery. If they take direct actions, it will soon be frustrating to the players because they can't do anything against it. Rather use a high-level wizard or priest instead of an Immortal. I think they should stay in the background and play thier plots with mortal life and so think the Immortals. That is why they forbid direct actions on the Prime Material Plane. -- Richard Eckart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:02:24 -0700 From: Rodger Burns Subject: Re: Immortals and Avatars Ramses Ramirez wrote on September 05, 2003 5:34 PM: > > To correct my last sentence of my previous post I meant.. > > > > What is the point of an Immortal imbuing an avatar with combat > abilities if it CAN'T use them on the Prime Plane? Well, I'm not Aaron Allston, but here are a few possibilities: 1. Use of extra Mortal Identities. This is specifically referenced in the Mortal Identity rules: "In a campaign which uses the optional rules regarding avatars described below, Immortals can maintain several such identities simulaneously, if they wish." 2. Use of Immortal abilities in multiple locations outside the Prime. For a low-level Immortal, keeping an Avatar back on the homeplane while your primary persona goes off to explore the Dimension of Myth is a much cheaper way of shepherding the faithful than spending 250 PP on a Spell Generation artifact. 3. Use of Immortal abilities on the Prime, in ways allowed by the First Rule. There's quite likely a shortage of willing Immortal candidates willing to use Detect Immortal Magic on all those worlds on the Prime (after all, just for the Mystaran solar system itself you'd need to track Mystara, the Hollow World, Patera, possibly Matera, possibly Damocles/Asterius, and who knows what other outposts of intelligent life on Venus/Valerias, Mars/Vanya, et cetera...), so one Immortal split into twelve or so avatars might be called upon to multitask. Multiple avatars could also take Incorporeal Form for rapid scouting and dream control. (Okay, so with 720' flying speed and unlimited _teleport_ spells, speed isn't as much of an issue. Simultaneity may be... since it means that an Immortal can cause two or more individuals on opposite sides of the planet to share the same dream - and probably even allow the participants to *interact*.) (For an example of that, consider how it might be used in the Wrath timeline. The Immortal Alphatia learns that Eriadna has plans for a political marriage between Asteriela Torion and Eruul Zaar, and decides to meddle... by sending the two of them a simultaneous dream. She sends one avatar in Incorporeal Form to Sundsvall, and another to Helskir; she then sets up a strong romantically-flavored dream for each participant. Each of the participants is allowed control over their own actions in their own dream; the avatars know the full contents of both dreams, and use that knowledge to make sure that the 'Asteriela' in Eruul's dream says and does the same things as the Asteriela asleep in Sundsvall is actually doing, and vice versa. A few months later, when the diplomats finally conclude negotiations and allow the two to meet in the flesh, they *already know each other*. Quite well. Scary, ain't it? And that's one of the less drastic scenarios.) So overall, I'd say Avatars are quite useful. In fact, given some of the less subtle applications (spawn an extra nineteen Meteor Swarm casters and go crash someone's party!), I'm just as glad you can't use their abilities on the Prime. It'd just be sick. > Lancer "The best lack all conviction, While the worst are full of passionate intensity." - W.B. Yeats, "The Second Coming" Rodger Burns ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 4 Sep 2003 to 5 Sep 2003 (#2003-217) **************************************************************