Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 9 Sep 2003 to 10 Sep 2003 (#2003-222) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 11/09/2003, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 19 messages totalling 1106 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Elven Influence In The Fall of Nithia - 2. The Fall of Nithia - A tentative guideline (very long) 3. KW AC 2000? (2) 4. A belated re-introduction (8) 5. the Fall of Nithia - A tentative Guideline - Introduction (2) 6. Fall of Nithia - A Tentative Guideline - Introduction (repost) 7. SoO (2) 8. the Fall of Nithia - A tentative Guideline - Introduction (2) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:18:30 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Elven Influence In The Fall of Nithia - Havard Faanes wrote: > > That is a reasonable explaination. But whatabout the > Wendar, the Belcadiz and the ancestors of the Shadow > Elves? Hmm...didnt someone do a timeline on the elven > migrations? Couldn't find it on the Vault though... The Wendarian Elves are related to the Denagothian (and the late Blackmoorian) elves, according to the Wendarian Timeline (http://dnd.starflung.com/wenden.html). The ancestors of the Shadow Elves have more or less the same origin, while the Belcadizan arrived later (possibly with the Ilsundal migration). Their original settlements were in the eastern Thanegioth archipelago, where they mixed with the local Ispan (there's a writeup by Mystaros on this somewhere). Later, some of them moved north to Glantri (perhaps through Alfheim), attracted by the Radiance. The rest might have moved to the Savage Baronies with the Ispans themselves. Bye, -- Giampaolo Agosta http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:45:41 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: Re: The Fall of Nithia - A tentative guideline (very long) > Giulio can you comment on this? I'm assuming that > the above is the timeline > you worked on with James, but I might be looking at > an old version. > > -John No, it's the current one. Interesting. Anyway I have to correct the History, after having written the Etnography and after our work on Taymora. Something that could shed light on the topic: do the Nithians have bronze or iron weapons in the Hollow World? Giulio ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: 6MB di spazio gratuito, 30MB per i tuoi allegati, l'antivirus, il filtro Anti-spam http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:24:24 +0100 From: Colin Davidson Subject: Re: KW AC 2000? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Nowack" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 4:45 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] KW AC 2000? > Elsewhere- I never did decide exactly what happened to Alphatia, > Davania, the Savage Coast, or any of the other parts of Mystara. I suppose a big question would be whether or not Alphatia was sunk at the end of the first great war. A contracted Alphatian empire, consiting probably only of Alphatia and Bellisaria, might then still be inexistence after that kind of worldwide catastrophe. Assuming my own campaign (in which the PC's of that time were fortunate enough to prevent the loss of Alphatia) there are some logical assumptions to be made about what happened in the Empires and in some other regions. Alphatia and Bellisaria- The worldwide drought wasn't kind to Bellisaria, but with the vast magical might of the Alphatian empire having recovered since the first great war (with a strict policy of maintaining the Empires borders without further expansion) the Empire was able to muster enough magical knowhow to maintain food supplies for its core kingdoms; circumstance in other parts of the empire were less favourable. More now than ever Alphatia has sunk into an isolationist position, seeing little on the surface of Mystara to make Alphatians believe there's anything of much worth outside the Empire. With a decline in magical interest on the planet, and with the potentially irreperable damage done to the climate a constant drain on resources, many Alphatians are once again considering whether their future may lie elsewhere in the Multiverse. People in the far away nations such as Darokin and Sind have begun to believe in Alphatia almost as a myth. Esterhold- Of all regions of Mystara, it was perhaps Esterhold that suffered the most. The full scale of the drought in this inhospitable region did not become apparent in Alphatia until it was far too late to do much to save the majority of the populace, with the rulers in Skyfyr and Faraway failing to draw any attention to the plight of the suffering Jennites for fear of drawing more attention to their treatment of the native peoples. Effective Alphatian rule did not last long into the drought, except for a small region around Skyfyr which is still nominally Alphatian. The native population may take generations to recoverm and presently the Jennite people of Esterhold are divided and scattered, with multiple warlords busy fighting amongst themselves for dominance. It is only a matter of time before more coherent kingdoms become established in this region, at which point further bloody conflict with the remaining Alphatians in the colony seems inevitable. Thothia and other Alphatian colonies on the Isle of Dawn- Thothians have long since ceased revering Alphatian ways, with the contraction of Alphatia and its increasingly isolationist outlook the Thothians have been forced to look to their own defences. By effectively filling the power vacuum left over much of the Southern half of the Isle of Dawn left by the two Empires they have done so superbly well. But already the signs of the old 'curse' on this culture shows signs of resurfacing, with doomsday cults to Thanatos and Alphaks becoming more prevailent in Thothian society than for millenia. Alatian Islands- These islands (and other islands regularly watered in warm, almost tropical seas) largely survived untouched by the drought, but subsequent raids and invasions have left these former colonies in disarray. The contraction of the Royal Alphatian Navy and the disinterest of the Royal Air Navy in this distant region have left them open to attack first by Thothians, later by pirates from as far afield as Ierendi, Ochalea and the Pearl Islands, and ultimately by the Knights of Vanya (formerly the Heldannic Knights), formerly based in Heldann but now operating from Hattias. It seems now inevitable that the Knights of Vanya will occupy much of what was the Southern part of both Empires, with the Pearl Islands, Ochalea and even the Hinterlands having little hope of retaining their independence in the new order. Emerond- Emerond, with strong magical control over its own climate, survived the drought entirely unscathed. Unknown to most humans, elves from all over Mystara have flocked to the region around Emerond, and tales of a new philosophy on the re-unification of all elves in a new Sylvan Realm abound. I'm toying with what would have happened to Serraine, Minea, Oceania and various other regions... Any thoughts? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:05:05 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: A belated re-introduction Welcome back Aaron! Some of us still remember you :) Havard --- Aaron Nowack skrev: > Writing that last post seems to have suddenly > ressurrected my long > dormant interest in Mystara, which has suffered > heavily from lack of > time as I began pursuing my semi-successful "career" > in anime-based > fanfiction. Upon reflection, I think I want to fuel > that interest, so I > figured I'd make a semi-formal reintroduction. > > My name is Aaron Nowack, and I'm a Mystara-holic. > :) > > Well, not quite, but I've been on the list for far > longer than I would > ever have thought. (Come to think of it, the list > address was something > like mystara@lists.io.com, I was in... eighth grade, > and I posted from > my dad's e-mail account he got through something > called Physicians Online.) > > To help jog memories, I'm the one responsible for > the "Complete Undersea > Timeline" and its related portions in a couple of > the Net Almanacs and > the Houses of Darokin posts, as well as a number of > other projects that > never quite made it to the list. > > Hmm... I never did finish the revisions for Houses > of Darokin, did I? I > wonder where I stuck those files... > > -- > > Aaron Nowack > "Never let reality get in the way of a good > hypothesis." > http://www.geocities.com/anowack/ (for now) > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:46:32 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: Re: A belated re-introduction --- Havard Faanes ha scritto: > Welcome back Aaron! > Some of us still remember you :) > > Havard Hello Aaron! I remember you too... and by the way thanks Haavard for your "years of fire" idea that spawned all these interesting discussions in these days about Taymora, Nithia, 2000 BC, Campaigns through Time, Elves... Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: 6MB di spazio gratuito, 30MB per i tuoi allegati, l'antivirus, il filtro Anti-spam http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:27:02 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: the Fall of Nithia - A tentative Guideline - Introduction THE FALL OF NITHIA - A TENTATIVE GUIDELINE INTRODUCTION by Giulio N. Caroletti based on Canon and ideas by Faanes/Cherrington/Calvin It is the year 500 BC. The Nithian Empire, having incurred Immortal dislike, abruptly ends; the Immortals alter the climate, divert the headwaters of the River Nithia, promote social unrest, deny magical powers to their clerics, and take other actions which cause the Empire to collapse catastrophically. The Immortals use magic to ensure that almost all trace of the Empire is wiped from the face of the Known World. The colonies are systematically destroyed - except for Thothia, which has already turned away from the Entropic Faith which led to the destruction of Nithia. "Coming of the Elves" However, the desertification of the land of Nithia had already begun since the start of the descent of its rulers in the hands of Entropy. Following the plot begun by several Energy and Time Immortals (probably Ixion, Ilsundal and Ordana were involved), the elf-leader Mealiden conjures the Rainbow Path to Thyatis. The Doulakki there repel the invaders, and the Elves, after having presented a long-thought lost clan (the Vyalia) with one of the nine Seeds of the Tree of Life, move through Karameikos (where one of the elven clans, the Callarii, stops) to Canolbarth, a steppe-region where some minor Nithian outpost is threated by the Orcs. Nithians welcome the Elves and trade the lands of Canolbarth in change for their help against the Orcs. With the presence of the elven buffer state and of the Traldar and Doulakki of the Selenica region, the Nithians had no external threat whatsoever (although things will change slightly when the Thyatians make their apperance on Brun two centuries later). While the Immortals hoped that the contact and presence of the Elves could help the Nithians to avoid their downfall, this simply allowed the Nithian rulers to turn their interests inward, to civil war, entropic cults and forbidden magic. The Elves had come to the Known World because the Immortals had told Mealiden that in the distant regions of Eastern Brun, a race of humans were meddling with obscure magics. The Elves had the duty to remove that treat, to avoid a second destruction that could be dangerous for the world like the ancient destruction of Blackmoor, still present in the heart and memory of the long-lived Elves. They had to avoid that destruction, but this they should accoplish not through violence. The humans had the right to prove the Immortals were wrong, and that they could fight off the evil cloud that was forming above their heads. So the Elves should try to help them and watch over them, without interfering too much; in case the humans should fail, their duty was to destroy the danger they represented. Only some of the elven clanmasters and treekeepers that joined Mealiden knew about this. When the Elves settled in Canolbarth (800 BC), they decided to use some of their magic to magically grow a forest in the steppes. This magic would drain magically some of the rainfalls that bathed the lands of Nithia, but the Elves paid attention not to change too much the climate. When the Nithians increasingly turned toward evil, the elven leaders' plans changed and, like the Immortals suggested, the Elves took their steps to contribute to the destruction of Nithia, draining all the rain from the land and transforming Nithia into a desert. This process took place during the 600-400 BC years. "the Spell of Oblivion" Apart from the direct intervention against Nithia and the indirect intervention of the Elves, to ensure that the Nithian knowledge is forever removed, the Immortals activated the powerful Spell of Oblivion, that in the short span of two or three human generations, erased almost all memories of Nithia from the minds of the people of the Known World. The Spell didn't destroy outright the memory of Nithia in those who knew about it, but weakened it. People tended to forget important things about Nithia, to forget the existance of its powerful magic and wondrous inventions, their memories of Nithians became unfocused, they begun to avoid mentioning it in conversations. Through these means, the memory of Nithia disappears in a few generations, while Immortals and their minions systematically remove physically all evident traces of Nithian presence in the Known World. The few ruins and memories that survive after that time are extremely confusing, could be mistaken as Thotian, and make totally impossible to recreate Nithia, its nation or any form of magic or cult tied to Nithia. Last but not least, the Bead of Oblivion is placed under the city of Surra-man-raa. ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: 6MB di spazio gratuito, 30MB per i tuoi allegati, l'antivirus, il filtro Anti-spam http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:34:09 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: Fall of Nithia - A Tentative Guideline - Introduction (repost) Sorry for the repost, had forgot one credit and the part on lycanthropy. Enjoy! THE FALL OF NITHIA - A TENTATIVE GUIDELINE INTRODUCTION by Giulio N. Caroletti based on ideas by Faanes/Cherrington/Calvin/Kaftal (and Mystaran Canon) It is the year 500 BC. The Nithian Empire, having incurred Immortal dislike, abruptly ends; the Immortals alter the climate, divert the headwaters of the River Nithia, promote social unrest, deny magical powers to their clerics, and take other actions which cause the Empire to collapse catastrophically. The Immortals use magic to ensure that almost all trace of the Empire is wiped from the face of the Known World. The colonies are systematically destroyed - except for Thothia, which has already turned away from the Entropic Faith which led to the destruction of Nithia. "Coming of the Elves" However, the desertification of the land of Nithia had already begun since the start of the descent of its rulers in the hands of Entropy. Following the plot begun by several Energy and Time Immortals (probably Ixion, Ilsundal and Ordana were involved), the elf-leader Mealiden conjures the Rainbow Path to Thyatis. The Doulakki there repel the invaders, and the Elves, after having presented a long-thought lost clan (the Vyalia) with one of the nine Seeds of the Tree of Life, move through Karameikos (where one of the elven clans, the Callarii, stops) to Canolbarth, a steppe-region where some minor Nithian outpost is threated by the Orcs. Nithians welcome the Elves and trade the lands of Canolbarth in change for their help against the Orcs. With the presence of the elven buffer state and of the Traldar and Doulakki of the Selenica region, the Nithians had no external threat whatsoever (although things will change slightly when the Thyatians make their apperance on Brun two centuries later). While the Immortals hoped that the contact and presence of the Elves could help the Nithians to avoid their downfall, this simply allowed the Nithian rulers to turn their interests inward, to civil war, entropic cults and forbidden magic. The Elves had come to the Known World because the Immortals had told Mealiden that in the distant regions of Eastern Brun, a race of humans were meddling with obscure magics. The Elves had the duty to remove that treat, to avoid a second destruction that could be dangerous for the world like the ancient destruction of Blackmoor, still present in the heart and memory of the long-lived Elves. They had to avoid that destruction, but this they should accoplish not through violence. The humans had the right to prove the Immortals were wrong, and that they could fight off the evil cloud that was forming above their heads. So the Elves should try to help them and watch over them, without interfering too much; in case the humans should fail, their duty was to destroy the danger they represented. Only some of the elven clanmasters and treekeepers that joined Mealiden knew about this. When the Elves settled in Canolbarth (800 BC), they decided to use some of their magic to magically grow a forest in the steppes. This magic would drain magically some of the rainfalls that bathed the lands of Nithia, but the Elves paid attention not to change too much the climate. When the Nithians increasingly turned toward evil, the elven leaders' plans changed and, like the Immortals suggested, the Elves took their steps to contribute to the destruction of Nithia, draining all the rain from the land and transforming Nithia into a desert. This process took place during the 600-400 BC years. "the Spell of Oblivion" Apart from the direct intervention against Nithia and the indirect intervention of the Elves, to ensure that the Nithian knowledge is forever removed, the Immortals activated the powerful Spell of Oblivion, that in the short span of two or three human generations, erased almost all memories of Nithia from the minds of the people of the Known World. The Spell didn't destroy outright the memory of Nithia in those who knew about it, but weakened it. People tended to forget important things about Nithia, to forget the existance of its powerful magic and wondrous inventions, their memories of Nithians became unfocused, they begun to avoid mentioning it in conversations. Through these means, the memory of Nithia disappears in a few generations, while Immortals and their minions systematically remove physically all evident traces of Nithian presence in the Known World. The few ruins and memories that survive after that time are extremely confusing, could be mistaken as Thotian, and make totally impossible to recreate Nithia, its nation or any form of magic or cult tied to Nithia. Among the worse consequences of the Spell of Oblivion is the loss of the knowledge of remedies to control and fight lycanthropy. This is especially bad in Alphatia. Modern lycantrhopy spreads through Mystara. Last but not least, the Bead of Oblivion is placed under the city of Surra-man-raa. ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: 6MB di spazio gratuito, 30MB per i tuoi allegati, l'antivirus, il filtro Anti-spam http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 07:46:54 -0700 From: Joaquin Menchaca Subject: Re: A belated re-introduction Where are you from? Do you play D&D0e, i.e. original D&D, or something more recent like D&D3.5e? Do you DM? Do you play in a campaign? What's your favorite character to play? - Joaquin __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:41:26 -0700 From: John Calvin Subject: Re: the Fall of Nithia - A tentative Guideline - Introduction >> The Elves had come to the Known World because the Immortals had told Mealiden that in the distant regions of Eastern Brun, a race of humans were meddling with obscure magics. The Elves had the duty to remove that treat, to avoid a second destruction that could be dangerous for the world like the ancient destruction of Blackmoor, still present in the heart and memory of the long-lived Elves. << Here is what I get from Gaz 8 >> 1000 BC: Elves disappear. Orcs invade the land and enslave the hin. The Realm >> of Othrong is founded. To the east, gnoll tribes invade Traldar territory and >> a great war begins (perhaps displacing the orcs who came to the halfling >> lands). and from Gaz 11 (Rrrgghhh. don't have my Gaz 5 timeline in front of me). >> 800 BC: Elves settle in Alfheim and drive orcs from the open lands to the >> west. Human clans begin building permanent settlements in Darokin. It just feels to me that the BC 1000 event should have something to do with the elves 'invading' Brun, as it were. I think you'd see a lot of elven war parties from 1000 to 800 BC, mostly engaging orcs, helping Nithians and native peoples fight against humanoids, etc... Once the elves actually get to Brun it's easy enough to involve them in the affairs of the Nithians. In fact, that might have been the Immortal's plans all along (though mortals surely wold not know). After all the immortals themselves were responsible for the removal of the elves (to the HW). From the elves perspective however, I think that they should be racing to save their own kin (and the younger races - humans, hin) from destruction at the hands of the humanoids. Actually I don't think that this alters your backstory at all... but it does alter a "mortal's" perception of the events that happened and why. >> Only some of the elven clanmasters and treekeepers that joined Mealiden knew about this. When the Elves settled in Canolbarth (800 BC), they decided to use some of their magic to magically grow a forest in the steppes. This magic would drain magically some of the rainfalls that bathed the lands of Nithia, but the Elves paid attention not to change too much the climate. When the Nithians increasingly turned toward evil, the elven leaders' plans changed and, like the Immortals suggested, the Elves took their steps to contribute to the destruction of Nithia, draining all the rain from the land and transforming Nithia into a desert. This process took place during the 600-400 BC years. << I think you've got the right of this here. Nithian corruption doesn't actually start until 700 BC, so the elves probably colonize Canolbarth as 'friends' and therefore would not want to overly drain their Nithian neighbors of needed resources. I would however speed up the destruction of Nithia part by 100 years. 600-500 BC. The process might continue after 500 BC, but the elves would not actively increase their efforts (since their enemy would be gone at that point and they would have no memory of them). This kind of attack would easilt draw the Nithian's attention, and I think that they would be swift to retaliate. [This is another reason why I think that the drain should not be a gradual thing. If it's an attack, it needs to be fast and decisive.] From 600-500BC the elves and Nithians are probably in constant military conflict. >> Through these means, the memory of Nithia disappears in a few generations, while Immortals and their minions systematically remove physically all evident traces of Nithian presence in the Known World. The few ruins and memories that survive after that time are extremely confusing, could be mistaken as Thotian, and make totally impossible to recreate Nithia, its nation or any form of magic or cult tied to Nithia. << I think that people in Brun would have lost most of their knowledge of the rest of the world along with their knowledge of Nithia. I'm not sure anyone in the KW would even remember Thothia. It's only in later years (in the time of Thyatis and Alphatia) that any connection is seen between the two cultures. After the fall of Nithia, nations of the southern tip of Brun become more insular, focus on rebuilding thier homes, and eventually filling in the power void created by the absence of the Nithians. They may not have time to worry about ancient ruins because instead they're dealing with sowing crops into a scorched and desolate field. -John ===== Rule #85. I will not use any plan in which the final step is horribly complicated, e.g. "Align the 12 Stones of Power on the sacred altar then activate the medallion at the moment of total eclipse." Instead it will be more along the lines of "Push the button." from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:16:11 -0700 From: John Calvin Subject: Re: SoO >> 1. In canon, the Spell of Oblivion wasn't just about getting rid of the Nithians' magical powers; it was also about annihilating their corruption, << I agree with point 1 completely. I think that the SoO needs to be both immediate and complete. >> 2. I'm kind of worried about your thought of having the Spell of Oblivion wipe out *all* mighty magics in the Greater Brun area, even those not used by the Nithians. Having the Alfheim elves forget weather and terraforming magic, or the Alphatians lose the secrets of skyship construction, just because the *Nithians* had the bad taste to listen to Entropy, strikes me as a bit high-handed and callous. << Again, I'd agree that only Nithian magic would be wiped out by the SoO. However there may be some overlap with other things. For example the Alfheim elves: If the magic that they used had nothing what-so-ever to do with the Nithians, then they get to keep it. If however the 'terraforming' magic was designed as a weapon to fight their Nithian foes, then I think they loose it (or portions of it). This would actually help to explain why the shadow elves can not reproduce what the Alfheim elves once had. The Alphers on the other hand IMO keep their magic. First of all they had the power to destroy an entire world... so I don't think they relied upon the Nithians for magical knowledge. If that's the case then they shouldn't loose it. I for one don't think that skyships go away. These are Alpher air wizards we are talking about. Building skyships is 'their thing'. Playing the devil's advocate... the Alphers did destroy an entire world. This does seem like the kind of thing that the immortals would want to purge from their beloved Mystara. The question becomes does the SoO viel fall over Alphers as well? Or would the immortals have taken care of this with something similar when the Alphers first landed in 1000 BC (they would also have to extend the same curtisy to the Flaems who come later)? I don't think that skyships warrent SoO actions, but certianly other knowledge that the Alphers has, does. -John ===== Rule #85. I will not use any plan in which the final step is horribly complicated, e.g. "Align the 12 Stones of Power on the sacred altar then activate the medallion at the moment of total eclipse." Instead it will be more along the lines of "Push the button." from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:29:03 -0700 From: John Calvin Subject: A belated re-introduction >> My name is Aaron Nowack, and I'm a Mystara-holic. :) << Heh. Looks like you've just fallen back off the wagon... Nice to have you back Aaron. I remember you as well (been a lurker/poster since 1996). Weren't you the kid we had to watch our language around? ;) Man has it been that long? Anyway, it's always good to have an old timer back. Have you been working on any Mystara projects while you've been away? -John ===== Rule #85. I will not use any plan in which the final step is horribly complicated, e.g. "Align the 12 Stones of Power on the sacred altar then activate the medallion at the moment of total eclipse." Instead it will be more along the lines of "Push the button." from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:29:35 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: the Fall of Nithia - A tentative Guideline - Introduction > > From: John Calvin > It just feels to me that the BC 1000 event should have something to do with the > elves 'invading' Brun, as it were. I think you'd see a lot of elven war > parties from 1000 to 800 BC, mostly engaging orcs, helping Nithians and native > peoples fight against humanoids, etc... > With the Stewardship idea, the elves would have been an invasion force from the begining. As soon as they settle on the Canolbarth Plains, they release their magic. They are stealing the rain in 800 BC; at 500 BC the growth of the forest stops, but the rain stealing effects goes on to keep the forest alive. In an elven perspective, this is very quick. With the Stewardship of the human race as their cause, corrupt or not, they would believe the Nithians must be brought down a notch or two. When Nithia becomes corrupted by Entropy, this only proves to the elves that they were right and justified all along, and step up their attack. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:43:33 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: A belated re-introduction > > From: Joaquin Menchaca > > Where are you from? Do you play D&D0e, i.e. original > D&D, or something more recent like D&D3.5e? Do you > DM? Do you play in a campaign? What's your favorite > character to play? > Is this for all of us? If not, ignore the rest. I am from Florida, USA. I play any roleplying game to have fun, but since I have been playing for 26 years, I am most familiar with OD&D. I have always DMed in Mystara, and played in Waterdeep (this way we never knew eachother's DM only information). My favorite characters have changed through out all these long years. I love the Forester, Elf, and Ranger classes, but my most memorable character was a Paladin that dual classed as a Cleric when he reached 20th level. The character retired from play when he reached 22nd level as a Cleric (this was not munchkin play, but a 12 year campaign, my character sacrificed his Holy Sword to the church when he decided to take the path of an acolyte, and later the only magical weapon he would use was a dagger that had light cast on it). Wish it was in OD&D, could have had him go for immortality. I keep him around as an NPC in Norwold. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:49:14 -0700 From: John Calvin Subject: A belated re-introduction >> With the Stewardship idea, the elves would have been an invasion force from the begining. << Not necessarily. The elves can still be Stewards of the younger races without (militarily) opposing Nithia. There are other enemies in the area after all, and the elves can actually oppose Nithian policies without instigating a conflict. The Nithians might actually allow this as long as there is some benifit to the elves being in the area (stability, elimination of other potential rivals - ie humanoids, trade and money, etc...). >> As soon as they settle on the Canolbarth Plains, they release their magic. They are stealing the rain in 800 BC; at 500 BC the growth of the forest stops, but the rain stealing effects goes on to keep the forest alive. In an elven perspective, this is very quick. With the Stewardship of the human race as their cause, corrupt or not, they would believe the Nithians must be brought down a notch or two. When Nithia becomes corrupted by Entropy, this only proves to the elves that they were right and justified all along, and step up their attack. << Hmmm... This explanation works just as well as the other. It does explain why the Nithians might have invited the Alphers to settle in the East (so that they could focus on the elven invaders). So I guess that the 2 basic ideas are: 1) The elves are allies of the Nithians, and are asked (or at least welcomed) to settle the area and fight off the orc infestation. Later, once the Nithians become corrupted (around 700 BC) the elves turn on their former allies and attack the Nithians. 2) The elves move into the area and confront the Nithians right away (as outlined by Chris above). This situation might provide some other interesting dynamics as well. Perhaps the Nithians ally with various humanoid tribes, supporting them with weapons and magic to fight against the elves (which might explain their great success over the next few centuries). Conquering orc warlord might be little more than Nithian puppets. Both alternatives offer lots of interesting opportunities, and I guess I could go either way. -John ===== Rule #85. I will not use any plan in which the final step is horribly complicated, e.g. "Align the 12 Stones of Power on the sacred altar then activate the medallion at the moment of total eclipse." Instead it will be more along the lines of "Push the button." from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:52:50 -0700 From: John Calvin Subject: A belated re-introduction Sorry, posted to the wrong topic. My previous post should have been under Re: the Fall of Nithia - A tentative Guideline - Introduction ===== Rule #85. I will not use any plan in which the final step is horribly complicated, e.g. "Align the 12 Stones of Power on the sacred altar then activate the medallion at the moment of total eclipse." Instead it will be more along the lines of "Push the button." from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:23:15 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: SoO > > From: Rodger Burns > > Hmm. I see two problems with this: > Not a problem at all, they are just thoughts… For point 1, I agree, the immortals do wipe Nithia off the face of Mystara. But, was Thanatos wrong? Is he not fulfilling the purpose of his sphere, and for him to succeed over a fellow rival in another sphere, punishment enough to eradicate the whole civilization that he had just as much right to corrupt as Ixion had to build? Then why erase the memory totally from everyone, leave just parts of it enough behind to recreate the whole line as myth and legend, and as a warning that entropic powers deserve eradication. Point 2 just goes along with the fact that Alphatia does have a lot of power, but does not awaken or use any of it till much later in time, sort of rediscovering that magic wand of making castles fly left in the back of the broom closet. In the Alfheim Gaz, it does state that the elves have forgotten the magic used to create the Canolbarth, and that it stopped growing in 500 BC. If they had remembered they would have used it to redirect the bad magic points and further exploit the good magic points. Much of the western half of the Canolbarth is not as heavily wooded as the eastern portion, sort of half done by magic, and the rest is being accomplished by the newer clans that settle the western half by normal means. The Rainbow path too is left unexplored for over 1400 years, when the Faedils come over in 600 AC. This idea was more of a fleshing out of some inconsistencies. As for the Alphatians and Alfheimers not being at fault and don’t deserve to lose some magic, count that one up to good ole entropy getting its last lick of corruption in. If I was Thanatos and I worked hard in corrupting my rival’s civilization, and they decide to remove my work from everyone’s mind, I would make it one step better, for the worse. It does not take away the magic; you just lose the memory that you had it for a while. If the elves did not write their secrets down like the Alphatians did, oh well, it isn’t my entropic responsibility. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:50:48 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: the Fall of Nithia - A tentative Guideline - Introduction > > From: John Calvin > > 2) The elves move into the area and confront the Nithians right away (as > outlined by Chris above). This situation might provide some other interesting > dynamics as well. Perhaps the Nithians ally with various humanoid tribes, > supporting them with weapons and magic to fight against the elves (which might > explain their great success over the next few centuries). Conquering orc > warlord might be little more than Nithian puppets. > Could the Blue Knife be a little more than a carrot promised by a Nithian Priest dangled in front of their noses? Continuing the Stewardship plot, on the Savage Coast the elves are divided (you have Ilsundal’s clans that believe it is their responsibility and you have elves of the second migration that don’t). They try to nurture the other races present, tortles, lupins, rakasta, lost and scattered human tribes, and the Oltecs. Some resist, some fight back, and some accept; the conflicts further divide the elves on who is right and who is wrong. When Nithia expands into the area, the first conflicts are with the elves, as they try to peacefully enforce their stewardships with the local races. When Nithia keeps pushing in, some elves inform their cousins west of them in the Sylvan Realm and thus alerting Mealiden of the Nithians’ rise to power. Since the elves are indecisive at first, all further conflicts become catastrophic to all races on the coast. Mealiden fears for the worst and asks all elves for a Call to Arms to enforce the promise given to Ilsundal and the plot to invade Eastern Brun begins as Mealiden discovers the Rainbow Path in dreams. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:30:51 -0500 From: Aaron Nowack Subject: Re: KW AC 2000? Colin Davidson wrote: >> Elsewhere- I never did decide exactly what happened to Alphatia, >> Davania, the Savage Coast, or any of the other parts of Mystara. > > > I suppose a big question would be whether or not Alphatia was sunk at the > end of the first great war. A contracted Alphatian empire, consiting > probably only of Alphatia and Bellisaria, might then still be inexistence > after that kind of worldwide catastrophe. Assuming my own campaign (in which > the PC's of that time were fortunate enough to prevent the loss of Alphatia) > there are some logical assumptions to be made about what happened in the > Empires and in some other regions. All your stuff looks pretty good based on that assumption. In fact, save for the parts about Alphatia itself, they work pretty well even with sunken Alphatia. Hmmm... but Bellisaria still need some changes, as it no longer has Alphatia magical might to support it. Bellisaria - Despite centuries of trying, the remaining portions of the Alphatian Empire never were able to form a new, lasting coalition. The New Alphatian Empire, its immediate succesor the New Alphatian Conferderated Empire, the Alphatian Confederation, the Third Alphatian Empire, and the short-lived Empire of Norwold and Alphatia (though the King of Norwold still claims the title Emperor of Alphatia) are all long passed away into the dustbins of history. Bellisaria, the heartland of many of these attempts, found its interior changed to an arid desert by the climate change. Now, a handful of coast-clinging nations still survive on the continent, and adventurers prowl the interior's many ruins, searching for the lost treasures of ancient Alphatia. Over the past few hundred years, the Bellisarian nations have built mighty fleets, and have become trading powers, their ships traveling at times as far east as Minaea, and as far west as Jaibul. Your stuff on the other regions still holds, but what about the rest of the Isle of Dawn? Kingdom of Helskir - This kingdom, taking up the northern third of the Isle of Dawn, lives in constant fear that mighty Norwold will seek to add it to its collection of vassals, just as it did to Heldann and the Northern Reaches in past centuries. An alliance with Redstone to the south serves as a guarantee against that day, as do several looser agreements with the distant Belissarian nations, which still remember their brief time under Norwoldian rule. Kingdom of Redstone - Founded by an ambitious Thyatian general during one of that Empire's civil wars, this breakaway province has maintained its martial traditions. It's legions are second only to the recently revived armies of Thyatis itself. Fearing both the resurgent Thyatis and Thothia to its south, it has entered into alliances with both Helskir and its fellow breakaway state, the Holy Empire of Hattias. Thoug the King still rules from Redstone Castle, the largest city is Portage (East and West Portage having long since grown together into a single city). Several attampts had been made to build a canal across this Kingdom, but none have succeeded to date. > I'm toying with what would have happened to Serraine, Minea, Oceania and > various other regions... Any thoughts? Serraine, presuming its still around, probably hasn't changed much. Although, it might be interesting to have had it crash-land on Monster Island in the Alphatia sea, and have the gnomes be building the first true gnomish kingdom on the ruins of Alphatia... hmm... As for, the others... well, no ideas... yet. :) -- Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/anowack/ (for now) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:40:00 -0500 From: Aaron Nowack Subject: Re: A belated re-introduction > Welcome back Aaron! > Some of us still remember you :) > > Havard Hi! Thanks for the (re-)welcome. > > Hello Aaron! I remember you too... > > Iulius Sergius Scaevola > Captain of the XXth Cohort > Port Lucinius, Thyatis And thanks to you, too. :) >>>>> > > My name is Aaron Nowack, and I'm a Mystara-holic. :) > << > > Heh. Looks like you've just fallen back off the wagon... Nice to have you > back Aaron. It's nice to be back! > I remember you as well (been a lurker/poster since 1996). Weren't you the kid > we had to watch our language around? ;) Quite possibly. ;) > Man has it been that long? Anyway, > it's always good to have an old timer back. > > Have you been working on any Mystara projects while you've been away? > -John Not too much, though I've had a few mulling in the back of my mind for a while. Among them are my expanded Darokin timeline (which currently exists as 7k of plain text, sparse notes) and something I was code-naming Project: Aftermath, an attempt at portraying a more "realistic" version of whatthe Known World would have looked like on Nuwmont 1, 1010 AC as magic began to work for the first time in a week and the Great War finished grinding to a halt. Among other things, it was to deal with things like half of Darokin and Glantri being in ruins and overrun by humanoids, Thyatis and Ylaruam being essentially under Alphatian military occupation, and the fact that the armies of the recently independant Kingdom of Karameikos had sent almost the entirety of their nation's existance fighting in Darokin, leaving the Black Eagle Baron, among others, a free hand at home. -- Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/anowack/ (for now) ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 9 Sep 2003 to 10 Sep 2003 (#2003-222) ***************************************************************