Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 8 Oct 2003 to 9 Oct 2003 (#2003-245) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 10/10/2003, 18:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 10 messages totalling 397 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Mishler's Carnifex history? (5) 2. Mishler's Carnifex history- Found? 3. Mystara: The Lost Chronicles (2) 4. Kubittes and Garganthuax 5. About Heldann ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:59:25 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Mishler's Carnifex history? Thats the one I am talking about. I have the first two istallments; the one dealing with the creation of the multiverse and the one dealing with the "Void between the stars", but between those two and his Blackmoor Timeline, there was supposed to be an installment dealing with the Carnifex IIRC. If you find it, id be very greatful! Strange that that one never found its way to starflung... Håvard --- Andrew Theisen skrev: > I think I know the one you're looking for- the one > that goes back millions of years? I've looked for it > myself, actually, and haven't been able to find it. > There were a couple of them, Mishler's went back (as > I note) millions of years, and is more akin to RW > versions of the dinosaurs, then DM came up with one > that only went back thousands of years (he didn't > like the idea of that much time, IIRC, and came up > with something a little more in keeping with the > condensed timelines of Mystara as revealed in the > Hollow World boxed set), and Geoff came up with a > couple of timelines based on later eras of Carnifex > that meshed with some of his own work, and could be > fit into either the DM 'short' timeline, or the > Mystaros 'long' timeline. > > I think I have the original Mishler version on disk > somewhere, and may even have found it once upon a > time during the search- if I can find it, I'll > repost. One thing's certain, though, I've never been > able to find it in the archives. I think it's in > some of the archives that aren't around any longer > (the ones that used to be in one of the ftp sites, > 96 or 97, I think.) > > > Havard Faanes wrote:Nope, there > is supposed to be something before this. > The timeline you list follows the destruction of the > Carnifex. I know I have seen it before, but I cant > find it on Staflung or Mystaros' page :( > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:59:55 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Mishler's Carnifex history? Thats not extactly it, but it helps so thanks! :) Håvard --- George Hrabovsky skrev: > I think what you want is here: > > http://dnd.starflung.com/lore.html > > Hpe this helps, > > George > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Havard Faanes" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 12:43 PM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Mishler's Carnifex history? > > > > --- Geoff Gander : > > > > > Try the following link in the Vaults: > > > > > > dnd.starflung.com/abkmoor1.html > > > > > > I think this is what you were thinking of. > > > > Nope, there is supposed to be something before > this. > > The timeline you list follows the destruction of > the > > Carnifex. I know I have seen it before, but I cant > > find it on Staflung or Mystaros' page :( > > > > Håvard > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på > http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ > > Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med > superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: > http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:41:01 -0400 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Mishler's Carnifex history? > > Thats not extactly it, but it helps so thanks! :) > > Håvard Ah, George found my old timeline of Y'hog, which goes back to around 10,000 BC or so, and ends with the sinking of Lhomarr just before 7000 BC. Just out of curiosity, what exactly are you working on? Maybe I can help... Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:44:43 -0400 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Mishler's Carnifex history? Andrew wrote: > I think I have the original Mishler version on disk somewhere, and may even have found it once upon a time during the search- if I can find it, I'll repost. That would be *very* nice of you if you could do that. Makes me wonder how many other early works there are out there, that were posted to the MML, but for some reason never made it to the Vaults? I think I'll check my HD and old diskettes to see if I have anything... Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:01:04 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Mishler's Carnifex history- Found? Okay, here's one of the bits from James' Carnifex history that I have immediately at hand- I don't think it's the full version that he once posted though (I'm pretty sure I remember a different version that preceded this and that isn't available any longer, now that the majordomo list archives don't seem to be around any more. I'll keep looking for that one.) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:47:29 EST From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Question In a message dated 99-02-19 18:01:45 EST, au998@freenet.carleton.ca writes: << Hmmm, if you go by Mystaros' work (care to jump in, Mystaros?), then I *believe* that the Carnifex era began several hundred thousand years ago - it took a long time for them to evolve from carnosauroids into the more bipedal, magic-using heavies we know and love - and lasted until roughly BC 10,000. >> My own take on the Carnifex is that they were originally created by Ka circa 50,000,000 years BC, in an incipient-intelligent state. They evolved slowly over the next several aeons, until the first great Kingdoms arose ca. 25,000,000 BC. The Carnifex Tyranny conquered Mystara about 15,000,000 BC, and slowly expanded into the Multiverse over the several million years thereafter. The conflict with the Immortals occured about 5,000,000 BC. Note that IMC, 1000 AC is about 5,000,000,000 years after the Creation of the Multiverse, give or take a million (check out my Multiverse Creation Epic for more info, available on Shawn's site)... My scale for the Caernifex in the Mystaran Timeline tends toward the Lovecraftian, in that the Carnifex are of such ancient antiquity that the modern lands literally grow around the ancient ruins of the Carnifex (one of my favorite Mythos stories is Howard's "The Black Stone", which gives a sense of where I place the Carnifex in the timestream). For a more "modern" take on the concept, read the Star Trek novel "First Contact" (not the movie version, the Classic Trek novel, in which Kirk & Company are involved in the events that so traumatically affected Earth 65 million years ago)... Note that the Mystara map also resembles the RW map several million years after that EVENT, some 60 million years ago... not a coincidence IMC... The Serpentines, however, ruled much later than the Carnifex, closer to the time of the Gazetteers, a mere 1,000,000 through 100,000 BC. You may have been thinking of the materials I've written concerning the Serpentine Empire... That's my own take on the era of the Carnifex... all only IMC of course... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:03:17 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Mystara: The Lost Chronicles Geoff Gander wrote: Andrew wrote: > I think I have the original Mishler version on disk somewhere, and may even have found it once upon a time during the search- if I can find it, I'll repost. That would be *very* nice of you if you could do that. Makes me wonder how many other early works there are out there, that were posted to the MML, but for some reason never made it to the Vaults? I think I'll check my HD and old diskettes to see if I have anything... Geoff I think there are definitely a couple of them, I'll see if I find anything interesting when I look over the old disks- I've got a grip of disks with a long list of digested information that I really have to go through anyway. :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:39:45 +1000 From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Mishler's Carnifex history? At 01:59 PM 9/10/2003 +0200, you wrote: > Thats the one I am talking about. I have the first two > istallments; the one dealing with the creation of the > multiverse and the one dealing with the "Void between > the stars", but between those two and his Blackmoor > Timeline, there was supposed to be an installment > dealing with the Carnifex IIRC. If you find it, id be > very greatful! > > Strange that that one never found its way to > starflung... > H=E5vard, it sounds like http://dnd.starflung.com/nightdim.html is one that you've found? shawn stanley what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for= me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:39:50 +1000 From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Mystara: The Lost Chronicles At 07:03 AM 9/10/2003 -0700, you wrote: > Geoff Gander wrote: > Andrew wrote: > >> I think I have the original Mishler version on disk somewhere, and may even have found it once upon a time during the search- if I can find it, I'll repost. > > That would be *very* nice of you if you could do that. Makes me wonder > how many other early works there are out there, that were posted to the > MML, but for some reason never made it to the Vaults? I think I'll check > my HD and old diskettes to see if I have anything... > > Geoff > > I think there are definitely a couple of them, I'll see if I find anything interesting when I look over the old disks- I've got a grip of disks with a long list of digested information that I really have to go through anyway. :) there might be things that haven't amde it onto the Vaults but what might be more likely is that stuff of this vintage may have been posted onto the original Mystara Message Board which didn't have wide access back then - I could never get onto it. shawn stanley what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:38:16 +1300 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Kubittes and Garganthuax Quoting Chris Cherrington : > Mad scientist/wizard with gargantuan t-rexes? <> > What other gargantuan nasties available in the nearby waters? Gargantuan > Dragon Turtle? Gargantuan Dragon Tortoise? Gargantuan Mammoth? No wonder > there are so many earthquakes on that island. A Dragon turtles back would make a fantastic hideout for gargantua. It may not even need to be gargantuan. I just keep picturing james bond baddies with subs. Alphatia has an entire underwater city I'm sure they could figure out a way to put one on the back of a dragon turtle. A dragon turtles shell is about 10 meters across so a gargantuan one would be about 20 meters across. Plenty of room for a whole lab. And I can see PC's shitting themselves when they realise what it is. BTW it says that dragon turtles are a magical crossbread of a dragon and a giant turtle. Which leaves you wondering who did the crossbreading.... Chris. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:44:22 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: Re: About Heldann Thanks for your information, not things are making sense... Some other things are clearer now, like for example why Landfall and Oceansend seem to be Heldanner holdings, whereas in the Dawn of the Emperors-map they are a part of the Norwold area. It seems that in the Heldannic Knights timeline those two cities have been conquered by the Knights. It's a shame... the Knights idea seems quite interesting, but I could never retrofit into my campaign. Anyway, thanks to all who replied, Ville ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 8 Oct 2003 to 9 Oct 2003 (#2003-245) **************************************************************