Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 23 Jan 2003 to 24 Jan 2003 (#2003-25) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 25/01/2003, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 9 messages totalling 289 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Ethnography: Blackmoor & Mystara 2. Lycanthropy, Taymora & Nithia (2) 3. Lupins, Hutaakans & Gnolls (6) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 12:05:24 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: Ethnography: Blackmoor & Mystara I wanted to point out to all those that are interested to the Blackmoor/Mystara connections, that the "Ethnographic History of Mystara" on which some people (myself included) is working on is available at Shawn's (see link below). There we have also tried to find the connections and links between the original Blackmoorian races (Peshwah, Afridhi, Blackmoorians, Thonians) and the current AC1000 races. We have tried to write this as a reference guide for all those interested in the early history of the human races and to fill in the gaps and the inconsistencies of canon sources. I intend to complement these informations with whatever comes from the Blackmoor supplements, and I think that if Zeitgest wanted to put some info in their stuff connecting it to Mystara, this could be a starting point. Anyway, here's the link: http://dnd.starflung.com/ethno.html ===== Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis "We poor few forged as brothers in this furnace will emerge as the steel of future generations" -- from "Legionary's Prayers", by Ionaos Nolan ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Cellulari: loghi, suonerie, picture message per il tuo telefonino http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mobile.yahoo.com/index2002.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 12:20:43 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: Lycanthropy, Taymora & Nithia Still fighting my battle for the union of all our greatest works into a single, consistent piece of fan-based coherent canon, I noticed a discrepancy between the dates of Taymora's sinking in the Ethnography and the Lycanthropy treatise by John Calvin. According to my own sources, Taymora sank in 1750 BC approximately, while John says 2000 BC approximately. According to my sources, moreover, Nithians settled in nowadays Ylaruam in 1700 BC, rising swiftly around 1500 BC. If John Calvin's date is corrected toward my own, the two pieces of work would be extremely consistent with each other. John if you agree you should change 2000 BC to 1750 BC, while I will mention the lycanthropic strains that you described in the Ethnography. What do you think? And you other Mystarans? ===== Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis "We poor few forged as brothers in this furnace will emerge as the steel of future generations" -- from "Legionary's Prayers", by Ionaos Nolan ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Cellulari: loghi, suonerie, picture message per il tuo telefonino http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mobile.yahoo.com/index2002.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 12:37:50 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: Lupins, Hutaakans & Gnolls Hello all! While I was reading through the Corunglain's Deep adventure, I came upon a series of notes about canine races I had written. I would like to hear your opinions regarding some forms of genetic compatibility and ethnical origin of the big three canine-humanoid races: Hutaakans, Gnolls and Lupins. I know that Hutaakans and Gnolls were created by the Nithians, but what about Lupins? Do you have any specific idea regarding their origin? In my campaign notes I had put them all as descendants of a humanoid race known as Wolvers, now disappeared, that worshipped a pantheon of Sphere of Time Immortals mostly unknown in the Known World nowadays. The Wolvers were not a prolific or warlike race, and the contact with the Nithians encouraged their demise. Their Pantheon saved them by encouraging their transformation into Hutaakans, Gnolls and Lupins. Some Wolvers, though, survived. More on this later, I'd like to hear your opinions first. ===== Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis "We poor few forged as brothers in this furnace will emerge as the steel of future generations" -- from "Legionary's Prayers", by Ionaos Nolan ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Cellulari: loghi, suonerie, picture message per il tuo telefonino http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mobile.yahoo.com/index2002.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:18:59 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Lupins, Hutaakans & Gnolls la Volpe wrote: > > I know that Hutaakans and Gnolls were created by the > Nithians, but what about Lupins? IIRC, there was some discussion on their origin years ago. I think someone (probably Sharon Dornhoff) postulated the existance of a proto-lupin race. -- Giampaolo Agosta http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:58:33 -0500 From: Magister Mystaros Subject: Re: Lycanthropy, Taymora & Nithia In a message dated 1/24/2003 6:20:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, iuliusscaevola@YAHOO.IT writes: > Still fighting my battle for the union of all our > greatest works into a single, consistent piece of > fan-based coherent canon, I noticed a discrepancy > between the dates of Taymora's sinking in the > Ethnography and the Lycanthropy treatise by John > Calvin. According to my own sources, Taymora sank in > 1750 BC approximately, while John says 2000 BC > approximately. According to my sources, moreover, > Nithians settled in nowadays Ylaruam in 1700 BC, > rising swiftly around 1500 BC. If John Calvin's date > is corrected toward my own, the two pieces of work > would be extremely consistent with each other. > > John if you agree you should change 2000 BC to 1750 > BC, while I will mention the lycanthropic strains that > you described in the Ethnography. > > What do you think? And you other Mystarans? Hmmm... The way this had been answered in the past, on my own part, was that Taymor sank in 2000 BC and the islands that made up Ierendi shattered and the other bits sank in 1700 BC, the same time as the explosion in the Broken Lands (plus, a lot of the coastline was inundated at the time, which accounted for the mixing of the tales.) I think that Shawn Stanley still has a bunch of this stuff on his site... including the parts where I tied the Nithians to the Taymorans and the Taymorans to Lycanthropy. James **************** James Mishler Freelance Writer and Troubleshooter Email: mystaros22@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:04:54 -0500 From: Magister Mystaros Subject: Re: Lupins, Hutaakans & Gnolls In a message dated 1/24/2003 6:37:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, iuliusscaevola@YAHOO.IT writes: > I know that Hutaakans and Gnolls were created by the > Nithians, but what about Lupins? IIRC, Bruce Heard, in his "Lupins of Mystara" article in Dragon #237, mentioned the origins of Lupins, though I do not have it at hand to check the reference. If it does, it would be about as definitive as they come, as Bruce was the Project Manager of Mystara throughout most of its development... James **************** James Mishler Freelance Writer and Troubleshooter Email: mystaros22@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 21:33:18 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: Re: Lupins, Hutaakans & Gnolls > article in Dragon #237, mentioned the origins of cOOL, I cannot find the 5th Dragon Archive cd. The fourth ends with issue 236. AGGHHH ===== Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis "We poor few forged as brothers in this furnace will emerge as the steel of future generations" -- from "Legionary's Prayers", by Ionaos Nolan ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Cellulari: loghi, suonerie, picture message per il tuo telefonino http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mobile.yahoo.com/index2002.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 14:50:50 -0800 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Lupins, Hutaakans & Gnolls la Volpe wrote: I know that Hutaakans and Gnolls were created by the Nithians, but what about Lupins? As Mystaros pointed out, in his second to last Princess Ark related article (the one on Lupin player characters- I think it was Dragon #237?) it is noted that the Lupins are descended from Hutaakans. IE, the Hutaakans are a proto-lupin race, and the lupins are simply variegated breeds of the above. How they managed to splinter into so many breeds within such a short span of time is anyone's guess, but in the Hutaakan Hollow World gazetteer (by myself, Mischa Gelman, and several others) we postulated that it had something to do with the instability of the process used to create the hutaakans, and that the hutaakans are not always purebred. Bruce Heard's article also mentions that there may be gnollish bloodlines in the lupins (hence, they would seem to be genetically compatible). Also, the novel "The Black Vessel" has several hutaakans ruling (covertly) over gnollish clans in the Carrascal in the Savage Coast. Again, seeming to imply a close relationship in their origins. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 11:54:54 +1300 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Lupins, Hutaakans & Gnolls > > I know that Hutaakans and Gnolls were created by the > > Nithians, but what about Lupins? >> From the MC-Mystara appendix: "Some sages speculate that lupins branched off from the true werewolf bloodline long ago. Tribal tales contain cryptic references to the Great Division, a bloody schism that spawned the hatred that exists to this day. Though details remain sketchy, apparently Lupins believed in peaceful coexistence with nonshapechangers while the true werewolves saw those locked into one form as nothing but potential food sources." Don't know if it helps but it does put an interesting twist on things. I'd be interested to know what dragon 237 says tho. Lupins seem to be portrayed as like werewolves but not shapeshifters and that they really hate werewolves. Chris. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 23 Jan 2003 to 24 Jan 2003 (#2003-25) ***************************************************************