Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 23 Nov 2003 to 24 Nov 2003 (#2003-277) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 25/11/2003, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 9 messages totalling 339 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Minrothad (4) 2. For those who have the PC1 gazeteer 3. Traldar and their Immortals (3) 4. RW mythology in Mystara ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:28:15 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: Re: Minrothad On Sat, 22 Nov 2003, la Volpe wrote: > 2) may anyone share the info on the Guild of Thieves? > I'm currently writing a lot of stuff on the Minrothad guilds, but it's still on the drafting stage. I'll post something to shawn's siten when I find the time to translate it. I have sone some work on the Thieves, but since IMC Oran Meditor has been already assassinated and the Guilds are in turmoil, the Thieves' Guild has changed a lot. So my work will be of no or little use to anyone using the Gaz. During Oran's reign (the GAZ) the Guilds function as an espionage network for the government. The guild is led by Alf Shadower, the Guild Master, who runs the three branches of the Guild. If I remember correctly, those are the Thieves, the Spies and the Privateers. Thieves don't operate in Minrothad, however. Instead they operate covertly in foreign ports - they disrupt the competitors and if possible try to take over the local scene. They seem to sometimes work together with the Port Agents (Minrothad merchant officials). Spies are basically a foreign secret service (Oran has a direct rule over a domestic service). Privateers aren't officially supported, but they aren't persecuted by the navy, and they don't attack Minrothadian shipping. - So, all in all the Thieve's guild is a branch of the government. The Gazetteer is a bit vague about how widely this is known. The guild sigil is commonly recognised (?). Still, in Minrothad, nobody but Oran and his closest associates know about the connection to the Thieves. Actually a Death to Thieves edict is still in force, although thieves aren't actively persecuted during Oran's reign. Still, the edict has pretty much discouraged any new attempts to form a domestic guild. (Or at least the GAZ assumes that thievery is virtually nonexistent on the Isles, but this hardly seems plausible.) Ville ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:08:05 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: For those who have the PC1 gazeteer --- Joaquin Menchaca skrev: > OK. IN the mean time, while I procrastinate about > doint my Perl homework assigments... Eh? [Fairy Characters] > I would like to integrate all material in the > D&D-verse on this. I also saw a lot of ideas from > Changling, the Immortal, I think it was called. > Here, > they described the Seelie and Unseelie, and they > described the Dreamworld. They also had a > nice-looking troll as a fey. I guess this would be > the good troll? Anyway, the first phase is to just > integrate the one's covered in the PC1 booklets. I never read Changeling, but from what I know of White Wolf products, they tend to invent more new mythology than they draw upon RW myths. That doesn't neccesarily mean its bad though. OTOH, if you have a chance, try and get your hands on Castle Falkenstein or GURPS Castle Falkenstein (GURPS version should be easier to come by). CF has a really neat interpretation of Fairies, Seelie and Unseelie. Including their Kings, relation to Humans (and dwarves) and their magic. IMC Fairies are in many ways inspired by Neil Gaiman's Sandman Universe (Presented in the Sandman, Books of Magic, Books of Fairie etc...) Fairies are a weird and scary bunch, yet they usually come up as allies for the forces of good when Entropy threatens. I also launched the idea that Oberon (sometimes Auberon) is an identity of Faunus, while his "wives" are Terra, Djaea and Ordana... Håvard ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:36:48 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Traldar and their Immortals --- Rodger Burns wrote: > It's also possible that the original Milenian > religion was too closely tied > to memories of Nithia to be allowed to survive. > (This could be religious > beliefs tied directly to Nithian beliefs, or else a > religion based closely > on the idea of Nithia as an ancestral foe/rival. The > latter would work > better than the former for the Tarsian Twelve, of > course.) In this case, > the worship of Halav and Petra could have been > worked in sometime soon after > 500 BC to grant appropriate patrons to the > Milenians. This idea really makes sense. I'm still really uncomfortable with the whole SoO, but this at least provides some understanding to whatits consequences were. > This does end up exposing the possibility of a great > many secondary > religious/cultural shifts caused by the SoO, of > course. I can see the > horse-trading now. "Alright, I'll let Thor set up a > new religion to supplant > my 'Nithian-infected' church in Helskir, but only if > I get a foot in the > door in Slagovich..." Hehe, sort of like the Potsdam conferance, Immortal style? That would also help explain why the Three ended up in Milenia... Håvard ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:55:16 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Traldar and their Immortals Havard wrote: > > My favourite Traladara/Karameikos Badguys would be > > the Unholy Trinity of Arik, Orcus and Demogorgon, > > currently _very_ active IMC, but Orcus is IIRC > > slightly younger. Daniel wrote: > I've always assumed that the Three were countered by > an equal number of evil Immortals. I chose Orcus, > Arik, and Leptar primarily because all three have > stated connections to Traladara. Traladaran legend > IMC > holds that Arik was eternally imprisoned and Leptar > was banished from all memory (his name is actually > not > known; he is referred to only as "the Forgotten") by > the Three after their victory in the war. This fits > in > pretty well with the Basic modules. I forgot to check this but IIRC Orcus achieved Immortality around 600 BC; about 400 years after the Invasions. IMC, Arik is one of the Immortals who wants to destroy Traladara/Karameikos. He was bannished after the whole Nithia incident. Using Leptar is interesting. I'd have to read more about that guy, isn't he from Cyicidia? (spelling?) Demogorgon, is also one of my Unholy Trinity. Orcus could have replaced a previous deity, perhaps one who faded as a result of the SoO... Håvard ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 11:06:45 -0800 From: Daniel Gioffre Subject: Re: Traldar and their Immortals Havard, > I forgot to check this but IIRC Orcus achieved > Immortality around 600 BC; about 400 years after the > Invasions. Yes, but the Traladaran Church of AC 1000 doesn't know that. Again, it's a situation of "primitive" traditions attaining another level of meaning in the face of historical developments. > Using Leptar is interesting. I'd have to read more > about that guy, isn't he from Cyicidia? (spelling?) He's from B9, IIRC. -Dan __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:07:12 -0800 From: Joaquin Menchaca Subject: Re: Minrothad > OOPs I made a mistake. The dwarves went to Glantri > and didnt find any welcome > not Rockhome. > Yeah, I was going to mention something... Hey, I wonder if there are any details about Alphatian dwarves. Do dwarves there worship Kagyar? Do dwarves originate from Rockhome, or is that a falsehood implanted by the Kagyar religion? Maybe the Alphatian dwarves think the Rockhome dwarves worship the false god (Immortal)... - Joaquin __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:13:40 -0800 From: Joaquin Menchaca Subject: RW mythology in Mystara I would be curious as to why "mythological stuff on the Northern Reaches Gazetteers fits very badly with the rest of the Gazetteer setup." It would be interesting to field some ideas on this. I might develop some Immortals for Mystara (some canon, some non-canon) and am interested in your thoughts and discussion... - Joaquin __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:43:05 -0800 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Minrothad Joaquin Menchaca wrote: Yeah, I was going to mention something... Hey, I wonder if there are any details about Alphatian dwarves. Do dwarves there worship Kagyar? Do dwarves originate from Rockhome, or is that a falsehood implanted by the Kagyar religion? Maybe the Alphatian dwarves think the Rockhome dwarves worship the false god (Immortal)... IIRC, the dwarves of Alphatia emigrated from Rockhome a couple of centuries ago (ca. 500 AC?) in response to the whole "Mylertendal Beautification" craze that spread out of Aasla. They should, therefore, be Kagyar worshippers, with all the Forges of Power and everything that is associated with it. 500 years isn't that long a time, dwarf-wise, for degeneracy to sink in. Still, it's possible that I'm wrong. Maybe there are some major events (heretofore unknown) that have changed Alphatian/Dwarven society in significant ways, or maybe that wasn't the first dwarven migration to the Alphatian mainland, or maybe there are leftovers from the original dwarven (Blackmoor-era) race that have survived in places on the Alphatian continent that are still around, but rather drastically different from dwarves we know and love? Possibilities galore... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 21:18:22 EST From: Phillip Godsey Subject: Re: Minrothad Yeah, I was going to mention something... Hey, I wonder if there are any details about Alphatian dwarves. Do dwarves there worship Kagyar? Do dwarves originate from Rockhome, or is that a falsehood implanted by the Kagyar religion? Maybe the Alphatian dwarves think the Rockhome dwarves worship the false god (Immortal)... - Joaquin On the subject of the Alphatian Dwarves the players guide says that the Alphatian nobles sent out an invitation to demihuman craftsman to come and settle in a specific region of Alphatia. Dwarves came from Rockhome, gnomes from all over the western continent and halflings from the Five Shires and Norwold. Unfortunately not much else is said of them but that does leave them open to much expansion. There is also no mention of what Immortal they worship but since the dwarves keep the knowledge of their clerics a well kept secret then this could be understandable or simply an omission in the interest of space when putting the book together. Oh and the Alphatian nobles sent out the invitation in AC 950/AY 1950. Hope this info helps some. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 23 Nov 2003 to 24 Nov 2003 (#2003-277) ****************************************************************