Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 28 Jan 2003 to 29 Jan 2003 (#2003-30) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 30/01/2003, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 15 messages totalling 537 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. More thoughts on X10 (2) 2. Repeated request for ESD maps 3. IMC: Veiled Society Adv (Sess 1) (3) 4. Prooblems with ESD maps - clarification (2) 5. Comments to the Revised Taymoran Timeline (2) 6. Revised Taymoran Timeline (including Rise of Nithia) 7. Dungeon mag map downloads deleted from Wizards site (2) 8. 3E Dragons 9. MYSTARA] More thoughts on X10 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:36:17 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: Re: More thoughts on X10 On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Michael Stephan wrote: > Another option are the Sindi's. The Sindi King is overthrown by his > brother as in the GAZ, and the new ruler summons an army to attack Darokin. > The sub kings don't like it but reason that with the way things are going > they will need an army one way or another. Shortly thereafter the Masters > forces show up to reinforce the new king and intent on attacking Darokin. > The sub kings balk at the idea of a civil war when the new king has such > powerful friends so they agree to send armies to Darokin. > I always interpreted X10 in the way that the armies of Hosadus are comprised of both Sindian and Hulean forces from the start. But then again I never got my hands on any official material that deals with Sind. IMC the Theocracy of Hule took over the Sind a few years back and subjugated most of the local kings and such. This was the prelude to the war against Darokin, Hosadus's long-term plan. If the PC's manage to defeat Hosadus, there is going to be a rebellion in Sind, which will most likey drive out the Hulean influence. Ville ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:21:16 -0000 From: Colin Davidson Subject: Re: Repeated request for ESD maps ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Anondson" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 9:18 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Repeated request for ESD maps > > Why are you telling us? You should tell Wizards of the Coast. > > Not even them, WotC is NO LONGER handling ESDs of their out-of-print > products. A whole other company is doing that. SVGames is. > http://www.svgames.com/ As someone who has purchased a couple of ESD's that were okayish, I'm glad to be kept updated on this. Before I buy any more I'm hoping that the bugs are ironed out. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 03:33:05 -0800 From: Darth Darknerd Subject: Re: IMC: Veiled Society Adv (Sess 1) Hi, Well that's find an dandy, but do you know the work involved, especially the pscion class. It's rather daunting. That was my point: It's a lot of work. More to the point. Who are these mysterious people referred to as "they"? Where do "they" have these 0e classes documented? - Joaquin > > I never heard of anything like that. To think > someone > > would recreate scion, sorcerer, etc. in D&D0e... > > Why wouldn't they? If you see something cool in > another edition or an adventure for another edition, > or even for another game entirely, there's nothing > to stop you from adapting that to your favorite > rules system. There are lots of problems with > maintaining balance, but that doesn't mean you don't > try. A lot of people bring older edition classes > etc. into 3E, why is it strange to do it the other > way around..? > > Jacob Skytte > scythe@wanadoo.dk > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:55:19 +0100 From: Federico Kaftal Subject: Prooblems with ESD maps - clarification I apologize for the inconvenience: my e-mail about bugs in ESD maps was in fact sent to SVGames, but I wanted to warn Mystarans about the problem, so I put the M-List in cc. Regrettably, my mail was published on the list without the "To" line as if I sent it only to the M-List. That's all. Cheers, Federico Kaftal _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 23:13:00 +1100 From: Jonathan Nolan Subject: Re: Prooblems with ESD maps - clarification Have you checked their updates page for corrected or replaced .2 .3 or .4 files for your purchased ESDs? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:03:41 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: Comments to the Revised Taymoran Timeline > Excellent work Giulio (as always). You've put a > great deal of time and effort > into this project and it shows. Thanks...I'm...blushing, is it the right word for that in English? > You actualy make the reference to the "Land of the > Dead", and the "Land of > Night" in two seperate places. Once in 2000 BC for > the Trantalians, and once > in 1850 BC for the Nithians. The wording is almost > exactly the same. Is this > intended? AGH!!! No, it's an error! I've read what James wrote about the rise of Nithia...his work is always astonishing, although it is very far from canon (as always). I would like to use some of his stuff. James, is it ok if I use parts of your work for this? Even if I'm going to change it a little? Giampaolo, you wrote the basic timeline for Taymora that I used, are you satisfied with my changes? I'd like to work out something that we can all agree upon. ===== Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis "We poor few forged as brothers in this furnace will emerge as the steel of future generations" -- from "Legionary's Prayers", by Ionaos Nolan ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Cellulari: loghi, suonerie, picture message per il tuo telefonino http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mobile.yahoo.com/index2002.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:58:32 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Comments to the Revised Taymoran Timeline la Volpe wrote: > > Giampaolo, you wrote the basic timeline for Taymora > that I used, are you satisfied with my changes? I'd > like to work out something that we can all agree upon. Hi all, I've been quite busy, but I've followed the whole discussion about Taymora. I have no problems with the delayed arrival of the Nithians. A bit more of an issue is the sinking of the Taymoran lands: in order to justify a number of later events (and to keep Taymora playable in this most interesting age), the first cataclism should not endanger the military and economic power of Taymora. This would also explain why the Taymoran kings did not act upon the threat of a general destruction. The entry for 1900 BC should be modified to reflect the changes in Nithia's history--they're not anymore old tribes who rise to face the threat of Antalian invaders, rather they're more akin to the barbarian Oltecs and Neathar who cut the Antalian-Taymoran trade routes, arriving from the sea to carve a new nation for themselves. This lines, originally in 2000 BC, should be moved somewhere down in the timeline: "Not able to reach their sources of metals anymore, the Neathar and Antalians are pushed out of the Ylari coastline. Some tribes, the future Traldar, are enslaved by the Nithian kings, other, the Dunael, flee east on the sea, while the Doulakki enter the forested lands that are now Thyatis." On the other hand, I'd rather not have the *alians as silver miners. Rather, the silver mines could be discovered later by the Nithians, who use them to buy weapons and secure their new land. This would also give new life to Taymora's economy, taxed by the loss of the northern trade routes, and change the internal balance of power, leading to the final showdown between the rival factions and the ultimate destruction of Taymora. Comments? -- Giampaolo Agosta http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/taymora.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 19:37:55 +0100 From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: IMC: Veiled Society Adv (Sess 1) Darth Darknerd wrote: > Well that's find an dandy, but do you know the work > involved, especially the pscion class. It's rather > daunting. That was my point: It's a lot of work. Sure it is, but are you suggesting that people playing OD&D can't or = won't do a lot of work? Sounds like that to me, which was why I felt = provoked to respond. I find that most role players (regardless of their = preferred rules systems) I know will take on insane workloads, if they = are inspired. > More to the point. Who are these mysterious people > referred to as "they"? Where do "they" have these 0e > classes documented? I wasn't talking about classes in particular, but take a stroll around = the Vaults of Pandius and I think you'll find that people produce a = whole lot of work using OD&D rules (and other editions as well, of = course), some of which is clearly inspired by other sources. I wouldn't = be surprised at all if there are OD&D classes there, that originally = appeared in other editions. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:06:00 +1300 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: IMC: Veiled Society Adv (Sess 1) Quoting Darth Darknerd : > Well that's find an dandy, but do you know the work > involved, especially the pscion class. It's rather > daunting. That was my point: It's a lot of work. > > More to the point. Who are these mysterious people > referred to as "they"? Where do "they" have these 0e > classes documented? Well you might consider me one. I'm planning on using 3e Dragons in 0e. As far as converting them, the systems are not that uncompadable, and my whole reason for using them is one of my players tends to be a bit munchkin and I am trying to put the fear of god into him (well actually a healthy fear of dragons). Oh and given the number of dragons that my players have killed it did not make sence to change the stats for dragons but instead there are still the small, large, and huge dragons from the RC plus all the dragons from 3e. 0e dragons being much smaller. I reasoned this out with a bit of help from 'Reign of fire'(not that good as a movie but...) and 'Jurrasic Park'. The smaller and much more common (i.e. 0e) dragons are all female. Females can lay eggs that need to be fertilised by the male dragons which are much much bigger (i.e. 3e dragons). Additionally all dragons start off female but can grow to become a male given the right circumstances (usually absence of enough males in a community). Thats why most of the dragons are 0e dragons. Male dragons tend to only exist in communal groups (they like to be waited on) and are rarely cought alone. Solitary dragons are almost always female, as it takes not only the lack of a male but also the presence of other female dragons for a female dragon to become male, and when they begin the process they begin to secrete male dragon hormone which prevents others females from changing during this time. Because male dragons are bigger they tend to dominate draconic society, you will find many solitary female dragons, because to make it for themselves they enevitably have to avoid the males. and having other females around doesn't help as they are just as likly to draw the proverpial short straw, and end up under the control of a new male. Chris. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:08:39 -0800 From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Revised Taymoran Timeline (including Rise of Nithia) >> >>> These dates I'm not so sure about. I've always tended to lump them into one occurringoccuring around 1700 (which coincides with the elven disaster). What do others think? <<< I've always regarded the events in question as simply the most notable symptoms of the ongoing shifting of Mystara's surface that began with the Great Rain of Fire disaster that destroyed Blackmoor. Sort of the planet's way of compensating and adjusting to the ecological destruction that that event initiated, and settling into its new polar orbit. Of course, I never really liked the idea that the planet shifted on its axis all at once anyway (why didn't everything go flying off the world if that happened?) << The problem with this explenation is "why just Southern Brun?" Why weren't these types of events occuring all around the world? I suppose that others occured in Vulcania (which drove out the elves). Are there other examples that people cna think of? Another question would be when did this time of upheaval start and when did it end? The GRoF happened in 3000BC, but Taymora didn't sink until 1000 years (or more) later. Why the long interval between? -John ===== Rule #85. I will not use any plan in which the final step is horribly complicated, e.g. "Align the 12 Stones of Power on the sacred altar then activate the medallion at the moment of total eclipse." Instead it will be more along the lines of "Push the button." from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:48:46 -0800 From: hammer_of_ulric Subject: Dungeon mag map downloads deleted from Wizards site Apologies for OT, but I have been using Dungeon in my Mystara campaign. WotC have removed links to the back issues, so you can't download the maps directly. Google's cached pages can still find them, but I've managed to get all the maps from #77 to #90 if anyone wants them. Hammer of Ulric ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:27:41 -0800 From: hammer_of_ulric Subject: Re: Dungeon mag map downloads deleted from Wizards site Mistake my end. I've got the downloads up to #95. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:03:18 -0500 From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: 3E Dragons Could you describe how 3E dragons are different from 0E dragons (small, Lg, huge)? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:22:05 -0500 From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: MYSTARA] More thoughts on X10 > NOTE: IMC the two sides didn't engage in a headlong charge agaist each > other, they conserved their forces. Different strategies might provide > different outcomes, but still I think the Nomads wouldn't easily get a > quick victory over Darokin. If they managed to defeat a lot of troops on > the field, most of their armies would be so weakened that besieging the > Darokinian cities would have been much harder. And if the Darokin Elite > legions and the Nomad armies fought each other in the opening weeks of the > war, it is actually likely that the Nomad advance would have been stopped. > So I suggest strongly that the elite Darokinians are kept in the large > cities (preferably Corunglain and Darokin city) in the early stage. You're probably right about this. When we played this years ago, IMC, it was basically a headlong charge between both sides, esp. Darokin (run by my PC's). They did little in the way of overall strategy, and sent the best Daro units out 1st. I know Darokin City fell to the Nomads, but was later liberated. The Nomads wasted alot of troops trying to enter Alfheim. Ylaruam and Ethengar were both allied w. Nomads, resulting in battles between Rockhome-Ylari, Thyatis-Ylari (late in the war), and Ethengar-Glantri. > Some further notes on the rules: > > - Use the Tactics table only as a quideline. I think it isn't very well > made. For example, nobody in their right mind would choose the "Attack" > tactic. Some results are very odd. I think rewriting the table might be in > order. Anybody up for the job? I must be insane, then! What's wrong with "Attack"? It is a good middle of the road tactic, that lessens the benefits against inferior tactics, but also lessens the pain vs. superior tactics (i.e. Trap). We've used the 6 tactics for all War Machine battles ever since X10 IMC, and most of my players know them by heart. One other thing I implemented was that if a PC with "Knowledge of Military Tactics" makes his skill check prior to a battle, he will be able to ascertain the opponent's Tactic (1-6), and be able to take advantage accordingly. Fortunately, this PC only has a skill of 7! > - Drop the stacking limit when it seems to be illogical. The wider limits > proposed in my earlier additional rules work well in the beginning of the > war, but later on even they don't make much sense. Especially when the > units are depleted - if you wish, decide a TROOP NUMBER limit instead a > unit limit. Probably some loose rules on this, with judgement calls being made for various situations would work. > - The rules about routed units returning home and being reinforced back to > full strength work well and should be used IMO in this module. Without > them, it is even harder to keep up the Nomad pressure.But: > 1) There should be some BR loss for the reinforced units. I didn't use > this rule, but I think it is a good idea. > 2) An overall troop limit should be placed for both Nomads and the > Darokinains, when they reinforce depleted units. > 3) Some units "return" from rout in a very bad state. IMC I had a Nomad > division return with 20 troops. Rebuilding such a unit shouldn't be > allowed, or at least is should take more turns. I agree. Any ideas for an overall troop limit? I've tryed to come up with some guidelines IMC (for PC dominions), but I don't have any firm rules yet. I was thinking that an army consisting of 1.5% of the population could be "reconstituted" twice, for a total of 4.5% of pop. An additional 10% of the pop. could muster as an untrained peasant militia. This seems to fit with the RC and troop guidelines in the PWA's. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:33:15 -0600 From: Michael Stephan Subject: Re: More thoughts on X10 > Another option are the Sindi's. The Sindi King is overthrown by = his > brother as in the GAZ, and the new ruler summons an army to attack = Darokin. > The sub kings don't like it but reason that with the way things are = going > they will need an army one way or another. Shortly thereafter the = Masters > forces show up to reinforce the new king and intent on attacking = Darokin. > The sub kings balk at the idea of a civil war when the new king has = such > powerful friends so they agree to send armies to Darokin. > I always interpreted X10 in the way that the armies of Hosadus are comprised of both Sindian and Hulean forces from the start. But then = again I never got my hands on any official material that deals with Sind. IMC the Theocracy of Hule took over the Sind a few years back and subjugated most of the local kings and such. This was the prelude to = the war against Darokin, Hosadus's long-term plan. If the PC's manage to defeat Hosadus, there is going to be a rebellion = in Sind, which will most likey drive out the Hulean influence. Ville Certainly the Master will have to deal with the Sindi armies one way or = another. I just didn't like treating the masters armies as part Sindi = because Sindi doesn't use humanoids. So does Hosadus have even more = troops in Sind to control that region? I was also anticipating my = players using magic get the diplomacy done VERY quickly, so was looking = for ways to boost the size and initial hitting power of the nomads. We = are agreed that rebellion is brewing in Sind though. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 28 Jan 2003 to 29 Jan 2003 (#2003-30) ***************************************************************