Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 23 Feb 2003 to 24 Feb 2003 (#2003-56) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 25/02/2003, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 14 messages totalling 660 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Hacklopedia Mystarica: The Guide to the HackWurld of Mystaros (3) 2. Original D&D review... (2) 3. Other Stuff by Mystaros 4. 3E D&D (2) 5. Hacklopedia Mystarica: The Guide to the HackWurld of Mystaros (2) 6. Hacklopedia Mystarica: The Guide to the HackWurld of Mystaros 7. Marco's Questions 8. Quality of ESDs (2) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:01:07 -0000 From: Colin Davidson Subject: Re: Hacklopedia Mystarica: The Guide to the HackWurld of Mystaros ----- Original Message ----- From: "Magister Mystaros" To: Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Hacklopedia Mystarica: The Guide to the HackWurld of Mystaros > Everything will be okay. It will remain a quirky, distinctive, and witty > setting. It will just become moreso. > > Mystara has always been dear to me. Ask any of the Old Ones on this list. > Look at any of my work on the Pandius site. Mystara is in good hands... As I say, my fingers are crossed. Thus far, I've been slightly uninspired with the Hackmaster publications, I therefore have a few qualms about a hackmaster Mystara/Mystaros. May I ask a question about geography? You say that you're sinking many portions of Mystara, linking it to the 'great rain of fire'. Will this mean that the canon Hackmaster world will incorporate other parody gameworlds? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:32:26 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Original D&D review... http://www-personal.umich.edu/~beattie/timeline/1972-1979/dd.gif ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:21:15 +1300 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Original D&D review... Quoting Havard Faanes : > http://www-personal.umich.edu/~beattie/timeline/1972-1979/dd.gif lol at that. The funnyist bit was the "I do not suggest these to the average wargamer." Maybe they weren't that refined, but from that article who would've ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:59:38 -0600 From: Magister Mystaros Subject: Re: Other Stuff by Mystaros Dan said: <> The Kenzer products can be found in the Kalamar section of their website at: www.kenzerco.com Dungeonworld can be found on the Fast Forward Entertainment site at: www.fastforwardgames.com The magazines articles are all in older issues, which you can probably only find at your local shops, if at all... Oh! And, also, I had several articles in earlier issues of OD&Dities (issues 4, 5, and 6), the fanzine by Richard Tongue. One of the best fanzines out there. You can find OD&Dities at: www.tongue.fsnet.co.uk Issue #5 includes my Gazetteer of the Ryaset of Angorit, on the Serpent Peninsula, entirely Mystaran in nature, and, of course, for OD&D. James ****************************** James "Mystaros" Mishler Freelance Writer and Troubleshooter mystaros@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:09:30 -0600 From: Magister Mystaros Subject: Re: 3E D&D <> It is a "good thing" from that point of view -- however, it is also rather limiting. Comparing it to physics, for example, in older D&D editions, the game design version of the Newton's Third Law ("For every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction") was very weak, if not non-existent. You could, for instance, alter any one aspect of a monster's stats, and not affect anything else. In 3E D&D however, you ahve to go through and change any one of a dozen different things simply by changing one stat. Leveling up is a bookkeeping nightmare in 3E compared to earlier editions. I don't even want to get into designing monsters. And the stat block? One of the sad things about 3E D&D from a writing standpoint is how many words the stat block takes up compared to what the old stat blocks took up. This is one of the things that trips up many small game companies. Especially those that can't shake 2E terminology and methodology. The systems are entirely different. In fact, it can readily be argued that 3E is not D&D at all, as in, it is not a logical evolution of earlier editions. It is, in fact, an entirely new game, built from the ground up. It owes as much to the Fuzion system as it does to older D&D editions. It is still a very good game, but I much prefer the older editions for design work. Or HackMaster... :) James ****************************** James "Mystaros" Mishler Freelance Writer and Troubleshooter mystaros@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:14:56 -0600 From: Magister Mystaros Subject: Re: Hacklopedia Mystarica: The Guide to the HackWurld of Mystaros Quoth Colin: <> I hope over time to dispel these qualms enough for you to at least pick up the book and take a good look at it... (^_^) <> Yes, the HackMaster world of Aldrazar will incorporate every old D&D game setting that Kenzer & Company can publish. Which settings they can do, altogether, I do not know. I have heard talk of Greyhawk/Greyhack, and they did the adventure Ravenloft/Robinloft, but I'm not sure about the others. James ****************************** James "Mystaros" Mishler Freelance Writer and Troubleshooter mystaros@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:32:45 -0500 From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: 3E D&D On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Magister Mystaros wrote: > systems are entirely different. In fact, it can readily be argued that 3E is > not D&D at all, as in, it is not a logical evolution of earlier editions. It > is, in fact, an entirely new game, built from the ground up. It owes as much > to the Fuzion system as it does to older D&D editions. I'm not sure about that. Now, having never played AD&D at all, mind you, I still to this day laugh maniacally about how much better oD&D is - I can see a lot of similarities in concepts between oD&D and 3e, not least of which in the 'prestige classes' idea. In creating new monsters, at least in one's own personal game, you are not bound by convention, either. Publishing? Yes, then things get hairy, I can't deny that! But I digress, I'm far more partial to a system that has lots of tables and math than a system without, it's far more geeky, and that's the way games should be :D Ethan - Who -will- be buying this 'Hacklopedia'... -- Kinard 210 Linux Guru Webmaster www.steelangel.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:35:10 -0500 From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Hacklopedia Mystarica: The Guide to the HackWurld of Mystaros On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Magister Mystaros wrote: > setting that Kenzer & Company can publish. Which settings they can do, > altogether, I do not know. I have heard talk of Greyhawk/Greyhack, and they > did the adventure Ravenloft/Robinloft, but I'm not sure about the others. They should do the "Forgettable Realm" populated by black haired, white skinned elves who are all goody-goodies, and presided over by El-monster. Ethan - Greenwood must pay! -- Kinard 210 Linux Guru Webmaster www.steelangel.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:50:02 -0500 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: Hacklopedia Mystarica: The Guide to the HackWurld of Mystaros I have been listening to this thread, and I am amazed at the reactions. I believe in the chaos theory, once in a while you need a good shock to liven things up a little. So as much as I really don't care for the Hackmaster system, I may just have to go out and see the product before I shoot it down. In any case, I most likely won't shoot it down, and will buy the product as much as a collectable and a little refresher game for amusement. Remember the Orcquest game in Dragon? I still love to read the map "Godless Wizards, Liars and Spies", that was a parody, and very good amusement from the serious side of gaming. After that little game, one of my players brought a new life to his character by adopting some of the misconceptions brought on by the orc's view of the Known World. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:57:51 -0500 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: Hacklopedia Mystarica: The Guide to the HackWurld of Mystaros > > From: SteelAngel > > They should do the "Forgettable Realm" populated by black haired, white > skinned elves who are all goody-goodies, and presided over by El-monster. > > > Ethan - Greenwood must pay! > LOL, now we can all submit some good ideas; I have always been fond of the LOTR parody of Bill Gates as Sauron with Windows as the One Ring. I even adopted a version of this in an Alphatian campaign. Networking Crystal Balls as a type of computer network, with one mage trying to bind them all with his main crystal ball enhancement program/spell. Too bad he zzonga'ed his last spell and was entrapped in his own network (now he is waitng to be some kind of lawnmower man!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:59:51 +0100 From: DM Subject: Re: Hacklopedia Mystarica: The Guide to the HackWurld of Mystaros At Sat, 22 Feb 2003 15:59:55 -0600, Magister Mystaros blowed the Horn of Walhalla when he announced: > <<1. will it be d20 or D&D 3(3.5)E compatible?>> > > Inasmuch as HackMaster is based on 1st Edition and 2nd Edition AD&D, yes. It > will not have d20 or 3rd Edition D&D stats. Kenzewr & Company can only use > the old materials for HackMaster, not d20 or D&D. So, another question. Given the fact: a. it will be using Hackmaster rules (which are an odd mix of AD&D 1st and 2nd Edition) b. it will completely rewrite a great deal of the history of Mystara, thus affecting the current situation of many nations c. it will include only Alphatia, Brun and the Isle of Dawn (with other Thyatian territories) WHY should a person like me, who already owns all previously Mystara related supplements and wants to stick to old Mystara setting, buy you Hackwurld of Mystaros (and spend 39 US$ on that)? I was looking anxiously for a conversion of Mystara to 3E rules, but this will something more like "My homebrew Mystara for AD&D 1-2 Ed updated to 1000 AC". Err... what's so interesting for the old fanbase to push them buy it? (also understand I don't plan on using Hackmaster: I'm perfectly at ease with modified OD&D) > <<2. will it be named Mystara or how?>> > > For legal and copyright reasons, it will be known as the "HackWurld of > Mystaros," or simply the "HackWurld." This reflects back to the "Known World > of Mystara." The setting is actually a part of Aldrazar, which is Garweeze > Wurld, the official HackMaster setting. Stirctly speaking, the HackWurld > proper will be the old Known World, minus the Thanegioth Archipelago and > plus Wendar, Denagoth, the Heldann Territories, and Landfall. Ahem, another question rises. IF you don't name it Mystara because it's something different (as u explained us), then WHY in the Five Shires you have kept the name of the other dominions? Why didn't you twitch them as well, so to mantain the parody throughout the whole campaign, making it a different thing yet with obvious references? I don't really understand this editorial strategy... It's like saying: "IT's really Mystara, but I'm naming it in another way because, you see, it's different from the old campaign you're used at. It's better and more fun! We'll leave the old nations names just to remind everyone what we're talking about." It's an odd confusing mish-mash... > <<3. will it be serious or more like K&C's Little Keep on the Borderlands?>> > > It will definitely be a parody, but rather more serious than the Little Keep > on the Borderlands. It has to be a parody, to keep within the bounds of the > license, however, the parody for the Hacklopedia Mystarica wil be in making > it more Mystaran than Mystara. uh? Pardon me, but I stand much confused... I guess I won't be able to understand what you're trying to say here until I have a copy under my nose... > <<5. will you use all of the old Immortals and planar cosmology of Mystaran > Multiverse?>> > > The Immortals will be there, but they will be... different. How this works > is one of the secrets I need to keep... sorry. The planar cosmology will > have to go, as it will have to be adapted to the cosmology of Garweeze > Wurld. I see. What about the level of magic? Will you finally give a plausible explanations of why the 1000 36th level wizards of Alphatia haven't yet run over the whole world with their immense powers? ;) What about this Mystaros NPC you mentioned? You said it will be Mystara's version of Elmunchster for FR. I seriously hope you're not using the same old cliched stereotype of the One Man Show Saves The World that constantly goes with FR, because if there was something likeable in Mystara and different from FR was the absence of omnipotent NPCs to kick the PCs butt or save the day in time of crisis. Care to elaborate? Thanks for the answers. DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac Lt. Cmdr. of U.S.S. Unicorn "You don't stop playing because you grow old: you grow old because you stop playing!" Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 And Mystara Italian Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:11:05 -0600 From: Magister Mystaros Subject: Re: Marco's Questions Marco Pontificated: << << <<1. will it be d20 or D&D 3(3.5)E compatible?>> Inasmuch as HackMaster is based on 1st Edition and 2nd Edition AD&D, yes. It will not have d20 or 3rd Edition D&D stats. Kenzewr & Company can only use the old materials for HackMaster, not d20 or D&D. >> So, another question. Given the fact: a. it will be using Hackmaster rules (which are an odd mix of AD&D 1st and 2nd Edition) b. it will completely rewrite a great deal of the history of Mystara, thus affecting the current situation of many nations c. it will include only Alphatia, Brun and the Isle of Dawn (with other Thyatian territories) WHY should a person like me, who already owns all previously Mystara related supplements and wants to stick to old Mystara setting, buy your Hackwurld of Mystaros (and spend 39 US$ on that)? I was looking anxiously for a conversion of Mystara to 3E rules, but this will something more like "My homebrew Mystara for AD&D 1-2 Ed updated to 1000 AC". Err... what's so interesting for the old fanbase to push them buy it? (also understand I don't plan on using Hackmaster: I'm perfectly at ease with modified OD&D)>> First of all, realize, a published conversion of Mystara to 3E is not going to happen. If it could be done, I would already have been working on it. We all know each other, that is, all the old fans of Mystara, and I don't know of any of us that has an extra $30,000 sitting around. That is what it would take to be able to do Mystara for d20, in a fashion that would be allowed by the licensors (WotC/Hasbro). Believe me, I know the costs in this industry, and that is what it would take. WotC licensors have to publish using only the best materials, the best writers, and the best marketing, sales, and distribution. And that's what it would cost to get a proper book out the door (and that's not counting any $ WotC would want up front, either.) Unless there is an angel sitting out there, lurking on this list... if so, drop me a note, and we'll talk... (^_^) As for "Why, if I am counted among all of the above, would I want to buy this?" Tough call. I think this is book is going to rock, but then I am biased. I feel that this book will be superior to anything out there for the following reasons: 1) It will be a COMPLETE Mystara guide. It will cover the entire Known World, and then some. Sure, some folks will weep for the Simbasta, and the N'jatewa, and the Varellyans, but face it, 95% of the setting that was described will still be there. 2) The Wrath of the Immortals will not have happened. Everything will be set back to 1000 AC. This will make it a LOT easier for new players to get into the setting. So much weird stuff happened to Mystara in the WotI... it just was untenable. Most "re-inventions" of settings are done to try and make the setting BETTER... this one, I would argue, made it WORSE. It destroyed Alphatia. It destroyed Alfheim. It muddled with the other nations to a greater or lesser extent. Nothing that happened in the WotI made Mystara more accessible to players. In fact, it took everything that had gone before, everything that had been written, and negated it, except as historical footnotes. It had, in fact, the opposite effect, and pushed a lot of people away from the setting. Look at what happened to any of the other AD&D settings after such apocalyptic events... This is a tough one for many to swallow, as, yes, much of the stuff that was done on this list was done post-WotI, and thus that seems to negate it all. Sort of, it does. You will be able to use whatever you want with it, whatever you have developed, or others have developed, as you wish. Nothing stops you from doing that, unless you wanted to play an official HMPA game set in the HackWurld. As you say, though, you will not be playing HackMaster, so, no loss to you. 3) As far as getting people to START playing in Mystara, there will be no better starting point! DM's and players will have everything they need to start playing in one handy book. Now, if you want someone to play with you in Mystara, either you have to set them down and explain everything to them that will get them "into" the setting, or they have to go and buy a ton of long out-of-print books at exhorbitant prices, or they have to read scores of pages on the Vaults. Neither way is a good way to get new fans. Now, they just buy this book, and bam! They are playing Mystara. Or, rather Mystaros. If you want to convert them, that's none of my business. I think they will want to convert you to the HackMaster version, but hey, that's me... (^_^) 4) Though this will be a definitive HackMaster book, and it will be the HackWurld of Mystaros, not the Known World of Mystara, it will still be playable with any game... just add your own stats. Pure and simple. I can guarantee, however, that unless you loathe HackMaster to the very fibre of your being, this will make you WANT to play it in HackMaster. 5) To toot my own horn a bit here, yes it will basically incorporate much of my Mystara materials. If you like what you have seen with I have done with Mystara on this list, you will want to get this book. This book will be the definitive "HackWurld of Mystaros" in more ways than one. ********************************* <<2. will it be named Mystara or how?>> << <> Ahem, another question rises. IF you don't name it Mystara because it's something different (as u explained us), then WHY in the Five Shires you have kept the name of the other dominions? Why didn't you twitch them as well, so to mantain the parody throughout the whole campaign, making it a different thing yet with obvious references? I don't really understand this editorial strategy... It's like saying: "IT's really Mystara, but I'm naming it in another way because, you see, it's different from the old campaign you're used at. It's better and more fun! We'll leave the old nations names just to remind everyone what we're talking about." It's an odd confusing mish-mash...>> The reason the name changed from "Known World of Mystara" to "HackWurld of Mystaros," was for trademark and legal reasons. "Mystara" is a brand trademark. "Darokin," "Thyatis," and "Glantri" are not (though strictly speaking, "Glantri" is a trademark, it is not a brand trademark.) It's a legal, not creative reason. If we could call it the "Known World of Mystara" we would. Though we would probably call it the "HackWurld" anyway, as that fits in with HackMaster. ********************************* << << <<3. will it be serious or more like K&C's Little Keep on the Borderlands?>> It will definitely be a parody, but rather more serious than the Little Keep on the Borderlands. It has to be a parody, to keep within the bounds of the license, however, the parody for the Hacklopedia Mystarica will be in making it more Mystaran than Mystara.>> Uh? Pardon me, but I stand much confused... I guess I won't be able to understand what you're trying to say here until I have a copy under my nose...>> Take everything that makes Mystara "Mystara," and crank it up a couple notches. This is indeed a tough one to describe, and I think, as you say, people will really have to read it over to see what I mean. But once you do see it, you will understand what I meant by this... ********************************* << << << 5. will you use all of the old Immortals and planar cosmology of Mystaran Multiverse?>> << The Immortals will be there, but they will be... different. How this works is one of the secrets I need to keep... sorry. The planar cosmology will have to go, as it will have to be adapted to the cosmology of Garweeze Wurld.>> << I see. What about the level of magic? Will you finally give a plausible explanations of why the 1000 36th level wizards of Alphatia haven't yet run over the whole world with their immense powers? ;)>> The level of magic will remain coherent with that derived from the HackMaster game, which follows AD&D 1E and 2E systems and assumptions. The Alphatian Council of Wizards will consist of 1,000 Alphatian magic-users that have attained "name" level, which, depending on the magic-user class, would be 10th or 11th level. There will also be political requirements for being on the Council. This is one of the things that's being "fixed" in the HackWurld. Alphatian politics will be dealt with in depth. ********************************* << What about this Mystaros NPC you mentioned? You said it will be Mystara's version of Elmunchster for FR. I seriously hope you're not using the same old cliched stereotype of the One Man Show Saves The World that constantly goes with FR, because if there was something likeable in Mystara and different from FR was the absence of omnipotent NPCs to kick the PCs butt or save the day in time of crisis. Care to elaborate?>> Don't worry, Mystaros, though a "lead character" like Elminster, is not Elminster. He does not come in at the last minute to save people's butts. He is not a Deus Ex Machina. Imagine him more like Fizban from Dragonlance, crossed with Mordenkainen from Greyhawk. He will happily inform the adventurers of their mission, then, when they get toasted by the swack-iron dragon, sigh, shake his head, take out his list of Heroic Adventurer Types and cross off their names, then go looking for the next party on the list. (^_^) James ****************************** James "Mystaros" Mishler Freelance Writer and Troubleshooter mystaros@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:39:39 -0800 From: Darth Darknerd Subject: Quality of ESDs Hi all, I just recently got B10: Night's Dark Terror from SVGames (http://www.svgames.com/downloads-wotc.html). I was really shocked at the low quality of the scan. The booklet was an old poor condition module, with noticable creases on the cover. For the pages, one can see the background text from the other side of the page, and the text appears as fuzzy jpeg'ized, and there is an eerie green line towards the right side of the page in the PDF document. Fortunately, at least one plus, is that the text is selectable. I was wondering, since at some point, these were published electronically either on Windows or Macintosh, so couldn't one just simply print to PDF from the original document? I'm still keeping my paper versions, as I think that some day when I have time, I can xerox them, and scan the docs myself with better quality, and do high-res graphic scans of the maps. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:24:54 -0600 From: Magister Mystaros Subject: Re: Quality of ESDs Darth Darknerd Ponders: <> Most likely because the file no longer exist, lost in the mists of time. I've worked for companies that don't have files back from three years ago, let alone 17 years... Or maybe because the original file is in a format that can no longer be used. Remember, B10 came out originally in 1986... that might as well be the Stone Age as far as programs go. A lot of non-standard programs are not cross-compatible with modern programs. Adobe did not even introduce their first postscript system until 1985, and it did not become the system for publishing until years later. Acrobat didn't appear until 1993. Or possibly because TSR used to keep their data on an old system which can no longer be read by any modern system. I'm not sure when they upgraded, but I've heard from direct sources that TSR didn't upgrade from early proprietary systems to newer, cross-platform systems until way late in their history, and they lost a lot of data and stuff in that upgrade. James ****************************** James "Mystaros" Mishler Freelance Writer and Troubleshooter mystaros@earthlink.net ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 23 Feb 2003 to 24 Feb 2003 (#2003-56) ***************************************************************