Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 1 Mar 2003 to 2 Mar 2003 (#2003-62) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 03/03/2003, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 19 messages totalling 1408 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Cultures (7) 2. Savage Coast (corrections to Verdan names) 3. Karameikos campaign (2) 4. Marco's Questions 5. Global Interaction (2) 6. Savage Coast 7. How did the Nucleus of Spheres come to be? 8. Combat Stunts (3) 9. Traladaran Three and WotI ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 15:50:24 +0800 From: Greg Weatherup Subject: Re: Cultures > Hi! > It's my first time in this List, Aloha! > This thought made me wonder about the sylaire/renardois connection. I tried to found any possible connections between the were-wolver and the lupins, but i haven't got good answers with this idea... then, i remembered that the lupins mimic the savage baronies culture... well, and if an glantrian If it helps, When I was getting ready to play King Louis of Renardy in Rob Fry's BR-Mystara game I remember reading somewhere about the first king of Renardois (now one of the immortal saimpts) was a lupin from Glantri and married a Renardois noble lady to make the first king and queen. Furthermore are there not two languages used by the renardois lupins? a 'upper class' one and a 'lower class language'? I always kind of interpereted those two as meaning the link could be expanded based on the Norman (French) conquest of England, originally two seperate cultures that eventually merged into modern times England, but in that/this timeframe there was/is still two distinct culture/linguistic groups. If I was ever to expand the history of Renardy that is the route I would take (not that I have any plans to do so). > ...And sorry about my english, i think that speak in portuguese a LOT easier =) hey, I just wish my español was as good as your english! Gecko -- _______________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup Meet Singles http://corp.mail.com/lavalife ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 12:27:01 +0100 From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: Re: Savage Coast (corrections to Verdan names) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Asgor Ironfist" > About the holydays, there's just a few nedded ajustments, i think. I'll put > the names written on Vaunts ath the corrections that i've made: O Primeiro > Dia (no mistake here), Dia de O Primeiro Mar (Primeiro dia de Mar would be > better), Dia de Primavera (no mistake), O Solsticio de Verao (only spelling > mistake: O Solstício de Verão), Dia de os Duelos (the contraction of "de" e > "os" would be better: Dia dos Duelos), Feria de os Toros (Dia dos Touros. In > portuguese, the word Touro have this U), Dia de os Flores (Dia das Flores. > In portuguese, Flor(es) is an feminine word), Dia de O Descansar (Dia do > Descansar, or Dia do Descanso), Dia de a Inquisidora (spelling miskate: Dia > da Inquisitora), Dia de os Mortos (Dia dos Mortos), Dia de O Fim de Mar > (Último dia de Mar is better), Dia de Ixion: Adeus a O Sol (no mistake, but > "aO" is more common then "a O"), O Fim de O Ano: O Dia de O Receio (O Fim do > Ano: O Dia do Receio [or Dia do Temor, according to the Karameikos:KoA > translation to portuguese) Hello, I wrote those names in Portuguese, unfortunately, I know only italian, english and spanish and not your language : - ) I wrote them using a dictionary, but obviously I made some mistakes... I pray Shawn to correct those names in the file in the Vault according to Asgor suggestions... or if Shawn prefers I could correct them in my file and then send it to the Vault... Just tell me what to do... thanks to Asgor, bye Francesco ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 05:08:29 -0800 From: "Ohad Shaham (Morphail)" Subject: Re: Cultures >Hi! > It's my first time in this List, Welcome! Always nice to see new blood. I can't speak for Jennifer F Guerra who wrote the Belcadiz gaz, but I guess I would have to because she is not on the list anymore (or is she? Jenn say hello :-) ). IIRC, Jenn meant the Elves to be the original culture that inspired the later Ispans. It is a repeating theme in Mystara that cultures copy each other. For example, the Aengmor Azcans-orcs-shadow elves-HW elves (in any order that you like, it is quite confusing). The same can be said for the Lupins. I think the original culture is the Glantrian one (because the transfer from Laterre to Mystara was probably one way). Canon Mystara was not very organized or coherent especially when it comes to history (don't hate me Bruce...). Most of the patches over holes and links between histories were made by fans. Go over the history section in Stan's site to get my point. Oh, and as people said before, don't worry about English. I have terrible spelling (examples above) and I am forgiven most of the time. (Except when it is really funny- don't ask). Morphail --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 15:19:40 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Karameikos campaign Since several people asked, I’ll try and provide some information about my Karameikos campaign. This campaign has lasted for over 4 years in real time and most of it exists either in my head or on various sheets of paper so please bear with me if this comes out a bit sketchy. The campaign is set in Penhaligion, Karameikos. The overall plot for the campaign is the ongoing struggle over Traladara (now Karameikos), which began with the Gnoll invasions. This is the battle between the Traladaran Three (Halav, Petra and Zirchev) who are the protectors of men, elves and other good races of these lands and their rivals the Unholy Three (Orcus, Demogorgon and Arik). The latter sponsor beastman races in these lands and try to overthrow human civilization and bring chaos to the world. In recent times, both groups have been weak. Arik was imprisoned in the Dimension of Nightmares and the other two spent most of their energy trying to free him. The introduction of the Thyatian Immortals through the Church of Karameikos turned also turned people away from the Traladaran Three, and the new immortals, although providing spells to clerics, did not share the same investment in these lands as the Three did. And then there was Haven. Haven (Based on James Mishler’s writeup) exists north of the Lake of Lost Dreams. It was a special land, because it bordered with the land of Faerie, or the Dreaming. IMC, this was due to an ancient pact between King Oberon of Faerie and King Halav, perhaps dating back to the time when Halav was mortal. This alliance brought a wider protection to the lands of Traladara, further weakening the Unholy Three. The protector of this alliance was known as the Seer. (See my writeup of the Seer at dnd.starflung.com) In my campaign, the PCs gradually became protectors and Knights of Penhaligon and one even married lady Arteris becoming the ruler of the land. However, their greatest adventure was at least in part a failure. The Clerics of Orcus and Arik have long been conspiring to free Arik from his prison. Seizing control over Haven, they managed to free their Immortal ally and lord and launched armies of orcs and human mercenaries to conquer Karameikos. However, they were too impatient to send out their armies and the orcs were vanquished. Utterly. However, the victory was a bitter one as they knew that Arik remained free now. (This adventure was based losely on B3) Still, life became peaceful in Karameikos, in spite of the Wrath of the Immortals events happening in the rest of the world. Arik seemed to be too weak and Haven remained a free land. But then came the day when one of the PCs killed the Seer. Why he did this is quite complex and I will only say that he had been tricked into making a pact with the witch Grizzelda (see Witches of Dymrak writeup on starflung). The only way out of this was to either give Grizzelda his baby son or slay the Seer. The Seer could probably have defeated the young knight, but for some reason allowed himself to be killed in a rather Obi-wan Kenobi-esque fashion. The consequences were catastophic. With the Seer slain by a man of Traladara, the pact with Faerie was broken. The border between Haven and the Dreaming was altered, the Dreaming pulling away. Unfortunately, the Dreaming was the only thing between Traladara and the Dimension of Nightmares. Now, the twisted forces of Arik are launching an invasion of epic proportions into Mystara through Haven. Only the Immortals may know how this will end… --- Felix Holtschoppen skrev: > Hi, > I'm very interested, too, since I have some similar > plans for my campaign as > well. So, perhaps you could send these ideas through > the list, if you no one > objects, that is. > > Felix > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thibault Sarlat" > To: > Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 12:48 PM > Subject: [MYSTARA] Who is the equivalent? answer to > Havard > > > > I 'll be very interested to know more about the > campaign you set with the > > reunification of the unholy three. > > > > Please send me as many info as possible. > > > > thanks > > > > > > Thibault Sarlat. > > Techniques de l'Ingénieur > > Port: 06 84 92 32 55 > > Fax: 05 56 96 85 24 > > www.techniques-ingenieur.fr > > > > ICQ 16622177. > > Personal homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st > > thibault.sarlat@wanadoo.fr > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Havard Faanes" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 10:07 AM > > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Who is the equivalent? > > > > > > > IMC at least, his main interest is still the > beastman > > > races of Karameikos as his main rival is Halav. > > > Together with Demogorgon and Arik, they make up > the > > > Unholy Three, opposing the Traladaran Three who > > > protect the land. Ofcourse, with Arik trapped, > the > > > Unholy Three are incomplete, but should they be > > > reunited... Anyways, that has all happened IMC > so my > > > players are struggling already... :) > > > > > > Håvard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Magister Mystaros > skrev: > > > > Joe wrote: > > > > > > > > < is in > > > > Mystara?>> > > > > > > > > Um, yes, that would be... Orcus! Ta daa! (^_^) > > > > > > > > He's listed in the Wrath of the Immortals Book > One: > > > > Codex of the Immortals. > > > > According to the history, he was a Devil Swine > in > > > > Traladara long ago. He was > > > > sponsored by Thanatos. On Mystara, he's not so > much > > > > about undead mastery as > > > > simple, pure, violent destruction. > > > > > > > > James > > > > > > > > ****************************** > > > > James "Mystaros" Mishler > > > > Freelance Writer and Troubleshooter > > > > mystaros@earthlink.net > > > > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > > > > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > > > The Mystara Homepage: > http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > > > To unsubscribe, send email to > > > > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the > message. > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > > Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på > http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ > > > Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med > superkvalitet og dobbelt så > morsom > > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > > The Mystara Homepage: > http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: > http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 06:33:35 -0800 From: Darth Darknerd Subject: Re: Cultures Before the Hattians came and conquered Heldann Freeholds, what culture did that reflect? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 16:36:43 +0100 From: DM Subject: Re: Marco's Questions At Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:11:05 -0600, Magister Mystaros announced to the crowd: > First of all, realize, a published conversion of Mystara to 3E is not going > to happen. If it could be done, I would already have been working on it. Everything can be done if you have: a. TIME b. WILL That said, I'm doing it, having seen that it's no use waiting for the Mystara 3E Team to put out something in the near future. It won't be graphically as good as the published works, but it will be useful for playing Mystara 3E and it will be free. My only problem is TIME. THat's why I hoped your Mystara would use 3E rules: this way I'd have stopped working on it saving time for other things I have to do :p Btw, isn't it possible to Dual-stat it for Hackmaster and D&D 3E (like many other publishers do, see Pinnacle with Deadlands d20 and Gygax's stuff for Necromancer games)? > We all know each other, that is, all the old fans of Mystara, and I > don't know > of any of us that has an extra $30,000 sitting around. uhm.... only 30K bucks? Ah, but it doesn't take into account the money to buy the license or to distribute the book uh? > 1) It will be a COMPLETE Mystara guide. It will cover the entire Known > World, and then some. Sure, some folks will weep for the Simbasta, and the > N'jatewa, and the Varellyans, but face it, 95% of the setting that was > described will still be there. Uhm, excuse me, but what do you call the Poor Wizards Almanac? People said there was never a complete guide to Mystara, but the PWA has been there to read for years and I think it's the most complete guide to Mystara one could ever wish for... I hope you Hackwurld of Mystaros will be better, of course. But don't tell me people we never had a worldbook for Mystara coz that is blatantly false. ;) > 2) The Wrath of the Immortals will not have happened. Everything will be set > back to 1000 AC. This will make it a LOT easier for new players to get into > the setting. So much weird stuff happened to Mystara in the WotI... it just > was untenable. Most "re-inventions" of settings are done to try and make the > setting BETTER... this one, I would argue, made it WORSE. It destroyed > Alphatia. It destroyed Alfheim. It muddled with the other nations to a > greater or lesser extent. Nothing that happened in the WotI made Mystara > more accessible to players. In fact, it took everything that had gone > before, everything that had been written, and negated it, except as > historical footnotes. It had, in fact, the opposite effect, and pushed a lot > of people away from the setting. Look at what happened to any of the other > AD&D settings after such apocalyptic events... > This is a tough one for many to swallow, as, yes, much of the stuff that > was done on this list was done post-WotI, and thus that seems to negate it > all. Sort of, it does. You will be able to use whatever you want with it, > whatever you have developed, or others have developed, as you wish. Nothing > stops you from doing that, unless you wanted to play an official HMPA game > set in the HackWurld. As you say, though, you will not be playing > HackMaster, so, no loss to you. And here we come to my main gripe about what's about to happen. Basically, what I fear here is that we'll have two "official Mystaras" going around. We'll have TSR Mystara (or Bruce's Mystara if you want to tie it to a specific designer) and we'll have Kenzer's Mystara (or James's Mystara), and that will cause IMO a lot of problems in the future when fans of Mystara will start talking and debating about the campaign. Why? BEcause the reference material they'll be pointing at and taking as groundbase for their assumptions and adventures and such will be essentially different! That's what I fear: a split of Mystara's fanbase. We're already a few loyalists. Take the small bunch and fraction it and what you're left with is a dying clique that will "metaphorically speakin" war with another tiny cabal of revolutionary fans over the issue of "what's canon and what's not", which Mystara is best and which is lamest. And that's freaking pathetic, but I see it happening. I hope I'll be labeled as a pathetic visionary and all fans will prove to be incredibly smart and mature and not argue on these points. But still the issue of two different groundbases for discussion remains: we'll have 2 different Mystaras to refer to and that will cause a lot of problems. > 3) As far as getting people to START playing in Mystara, there will be no > better starting point! DM's and players will have everything they need to > start playing in one handy book. Now, if you want someone to play with you > in Mystara, either you have to set them down and explain everything to them > that will get them "into" the setting, or they have to go and buy a ton of > long out-of-print books at exhorbitant prices, or they have to read scores > of pages on the Vaults. Neither way is a good way to get new fans. Now, they > just buy this book, and bam! They are playing Mystara. Or, rather Mystaros. > If you want to convert them, that's none of my business. I think they will > want to convert you to the HackMaster version, but hey, that's me... (^_^) James, not to be unpolite, but we're talking about teaching people a new gaming system. It takes time and it takes will. And it takes money, of course. And since we already play OD&D and have started with 3E, I don't really see the need to throw in another system which is basically a rehash of AD&D (we are perfectly fine with our OD&D modified rules). ;) > 5) To toot my own horn a bit here, yes it will basically incorporate much of > my Mystara materials. If you like what you have seen with I have done with > Mystara on this list, you will want to get this book. This book will be the > definitive "HackWurld of Mystaros" in more ways than one. eheh, I remember when we discussed on the list with you, you always made reference to YOUR Mystara campaign, thus throwing us all into chaos and hijacking the topic. I guess now you'll be finally able to refer to your campaign with others knowing what you're actually talking about ;p DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac Lt. Cmdr. of U.S.S. Unicorn "You don't stop playing because you grow old: you grow old because you stop playing!" Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 And Mystara Italian Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 16:37:12 +0100 From: DM Subject: Re: Global Interaction At Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:55:41 -0600, Magister Mystaros meandered fecklessly (to quote an old patron of this list): > < Alphatia having little interraction with regions that would be in the > Greyhawk setting?>> > > This actually is not much of a worry. Just look at Mystara's own history to > see why. Alphatia may indeed be a global power, however, the direct > influence she has had over other nations of Brun has been spotty. Alphatia > has been around for 2000 years, yet Norwold, which is just a hop, skip, and > a jump across the water, is still as barbaric as ever. Thyatis, yes, she had > a great influence on. Ylaruam less, the Northern Reaches barely at all. Then > look to her eastern borders, and she only recently had any affect on > Skothar. Yes, and that has always led me to ask myself: WHY? I mean, Alphatia must have been torn by centuries of civil wars not to be able to exploit its superior wealth and magical prowess to subjugate the whole Known World, let alone Norwold (which wasn't really a "fat pig" to exploit, merely a matter of "honor" -we don't want the Thyatians to have this icy dry piece of useless land, so we'll get it first!)... do you have an explanation for this in your Hackwurld? Also on this point, you can't really compare Mystara's history to the RW one, because there's a big difference between the two: use of MAGIC. In this sense, how is it possible that your Mystara won't be tampering with the other nations of the Hackwurld (Aldrazar?)? I mean, you said that Haldemar was the first to go out and explore the rest of the world, thus meaning that Alphatia has never done extensive exploration of the world despite its resources. Well, I beg to differ: it should be pretty unlikely that a nation which possesses some 20+ flying skyships (source: WotI) has never sent any of them on explorative missions. And it's not the fact that they risk losing them that has stopped them from acting this way. If you look at the Alphatian Man-o-war's stats you'll see it's got the Teleport power. It means it can teleport once per day to a known location with the whole crew. It means it can go wherever it wants and go back into the Alphatian's shipyards in a wink if there are any problems! And if certainly it is costly to manufacture a Man-o-war and the Empress doesn't like the risk of losing one, once you've got them, you have to USE them (else why building them at all?) And it doesn't seem to me that Alphatia used the Skynavy often in the last decades before the WotI. So they were kept in Aasla to rot, basically. That has prompted me to think: maybe they did use the skynavy to map the whole world. And maybe Haldemar just set out of his own to make this great voyage. Or more likely he had to update the maps and look more deeply into the geopolitical situation around the world, rather than to the geography of Mystara. That would be logical. [end of rant about Alphatia's role in Mystara - and why it is good IMHO to have it gone after WotI, despite me being an Alphatian loyalist] SO that's why I was asking you how you can be so sure that Alphatia won't be able to meddle with the other nations of the Hackwurld. Because, unless you leave the skyships out, it's really a matter of months before the interaction begins. Let alone possible visits to other continents by use of clayrvoiancy, teleport and planar gates... ;) Cheers! DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac Lt. Cmdr. of U.S.S. Unicorn "You don't stop playing because you grow old: you grow old because you stop playing!" Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 And Mystara Italian Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 17:21:00 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Savage Coast Asgor Ironfist wrote: > Verdan in Esterhold have any connection with the verdan people? Not that I'm aware of: Esterhold is populated by Alphatians and Jennites. Though, the Verdans are great sailors, so nothing really prevents them to have reached Esterhold. > And Slag would be english, right? Does Slag an Daro dialect (that is > already > an Thyatian dialect, right?) Well... Slag is a dialect of Thyatian, which is basically Latin and/or Greek, even though Caurenzan (Italian) and Hattian (German) are both Thyatian dialects, I'd say that Thyatian is a Latin-based language. Of course, for me it is _very_ handy to have modern Thyatian as Italian ;) > I have just 2 comments abou the verdans: their Coinage and holydays. > Surely > the don't use the same worlds for they money, but translate the name to > verdan (at leats, that's what i think!). Yes, that's quite likely. Thanks for sharing those names :) GP ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 17:30:15 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Cultures Darth Darknerd wrote: > Before the Hattians came and conquered Heldann > Freeholds, what culture did that reflect? > They always were a germanic culture, even within the Thyatian Empire. Excluding the HK, there are two main Hattian settlements, Hattias itself and Aalban in Glantri. The latter is clearly based on continental Germany--perhaps southern Germany. The former IMO has a mixed culture, with germanic language, but with a much different climate, more like Greece or southern Italy, and probably a much different economy--definitely a mediterranean one. GP ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 17:36:07 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Cultures Greg Weatherup wrote: > If it helps, When I was getting ready to play King Louis of Renardy in Rob Fry's BR-Mystara game I remember reading somewhere about the first king of Renardois (now one of the immortal saimpts) was a lupin from Glantri and married a Renardois noble lady to make the first king and queen. > Uhm, perhaps it was this passage from the Immortal Project, Saimpt Clébard entry: "In mortal life, Clébard de Clairvault was a wizard and one of the lupin followers of Sire Claude d'Ambreville. After his presumed death (and the disappearance of Château d'Ambreville) in 896, Clébard left Glantri, as he already disagreed with the glantrian succession laws that excluded Claude from inheritance of his title. He reached Renardy with other glantrian lupins, and there he became Baron de Marmandie. Clébard married Princess Ralon of Renardy and inherited the throne, starting the feudal age of his country. It was under Clébard's rule that most of the current renardois law was codified, unifying ancient lupin traditions and the legal principles that Clébard learnt from Sire Claude. Clébard also gave his name to the royal dynasty and added his Fleur de Lis to the old Golden Fox in the kings' coat of arms. Having ruled his country for nearly twenty years, he abdicated in favour of his eldest son Gaston in 928. He attained immortality only in 954, under Korotiku's sponsorship." > Furthermore are there not two languages used by the renardois lupins? a 'upper class' one and a 'lower class language'? I always kind of interpereted those two as meaning the link could be expanded based on the Norman (French) conquest of England, originally two seperate cultures that eventually merged into modern times England, but in that/this timeframe there was/is still two distinct culture/linguistic groups. If I was ever to expand the history of Renardy that is the route I would take (not that I have any plans to do so). > Indeed. The "upper class" language ("Renardois") is based on French, while the lower class language, "Lupin" is the ancestral language of the Lupins, composed of barks and howls :) GP ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 09:57:19 -0800 From: Ramses Ramirez Subject: How did the Nucleus of Spheres come to be? MML, The title says it all.. 1)Can someone please fill me in on how the NoS was created, by whom, and why? Most of my Mystaran resources are home so I can't flip through those right now. 2)Has anyone ever worked on rules on how the Radiance is used post-WotI? As I understand it, the Radiance used to draw energy from the Sphere of Energy but after WotI it had been altered to draw energy from Entropy instead... So how does this change things? If I am not mistaken, I believe there is nothing in canon about this. Thanks! Lancer --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 13:46:52 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Cultures Darknerd wrote: > Before the Hattians came and conquered Heldann > Freeholds, what culture did that reflect? The original Heldanner culture was supposed to be based on medieval Iceland, as confirmed by Bruce Heard on the old MMB, and in the original expert boxed set (the blue one). Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 18:36:20 -0300 From: Asgor Ironfist Subject: Re: Cultures Hi everyone! Well, first of all, thanks everybody, it's very nice to fell welcome, thanks a lot =) Er... Morphail? i think i met you before, at Kazaa... or am I mistake? About the belcadizians, i find the belcadiz gazetteer very interesting, but i tried to avoid two Ispan/Espa cultures apprearing in Mystara from different origins and in different places (the ispans were ispans before arriving the SC). Well that's just an ideia that i had About Renardy and Nouvelle Averoigne, i think i underestand the connection between both About verdans, it is a pleasure to help. If anyone needs any help with portuguese, just ask ^^ and Francesco, no prob, no one have the obligation to write everything right, especially in a foreign language. And considering that you used only a dictionary, you made an amazing job! =) About thyatian, yes, i already realised this connection between thyatian of thyatis and latin, thyatian of kerendas and italian, and thyatian of hattias and german. But in some text on Vaunts i read that Daro would be an thyatian dialect as well, and i think that daro would be english, right? And Slag is another thyatian dialect, but Cimarron, that speaks this language more than the other baronies (and nations of the SC) is very simmilar to the american far west (and all it's names are in english too). And in Bellayne, there's a lot of english words and names, but Rakastaine would be more like japanese, i think (at leats, the alphabet is based on the japanaese ideograns), so this probably came from Slag (that the traladarans that colonise this land originally probably knew and spoke). So, i came to 2 conclusions, considering this: Or a big migration of this traladarans of bellayne migrates to cimarron (that could happened, i think), and they brough with they an "english" dialect, or Slag is the SC english. So if Daro is an thyatian dialect, and Daro might be english, Slag might be as well. And maybe slag is an version of daro, like renardois and sylarie, or espa and belcadizian. And, by the way, Darokin and the City-states are not so far, and they're both mercant cultures (at least, rather than militarist or isolationist, i think). Whew, that was a big one ^^' Tchau Guilherme de Texeiras _________________________________________________________________ MSN Hotmail, o maior webmail do Brasil. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 22:32:02 +0100 From: Felix Holtschoppen Subject: Re: Karameikos campaign Wow, sounds like a great campaign, lots of fun and a lot of emotional involvement on the players' part! Though I haven't read the sources you mentioned about Haven and the Seer (must do this ASAP), I can guess from your notes, that the campaign dates from about 1000 AC (more or less) through WotI and on... Actually I'm thinking about doing something very similar in my campaign. Most of the ideas came from people on this list, though. My campaign is set in 999 AC (so the player's have some time to get to learn Mystara & the KW having never before played OD&D let alone in Mystara) and after having established the Black Eagle Barony and the Iron Ring as main villains (running through the Eye of Traldar and the first adventure from the KoK boxed set adventure booklet among others), Joaquin's ideas for "Epic Adventures" came in quite handy. I just ran through Elwyn's Sanctuary from B1-9. What the PCs are just starting to figure out is that there is more to the Black Eagle / Iron Ring axis than they had thought. There's a pact between Loki/Bozdogan, Orkus and some third immortal (who exactly, I haven't decided yet, but probably Demogorgon). Orkus is imprisoned at the moment (I plan to run the Temple of Elemental Evil as suggested by Joaquin), Loki/Bozdogan and the Master of Hule are trying to use Ludwig Van Hendricks as a toy to levvy some humanoid troups and bring Karameikos to Civil War, so it will not be of any help to Darokin when the invasion begins, or it might even be the base of operations for some "backstabbing" raids from the Black Eagle Barony. Therefore Loki tempted Elwyn (from B1-9) in the guise of Leptar (who is actually banished/defeated or whatever happens to Immortals) to steal the bell of Chardastes (to weaken the belief in the Traladaran pantheon) and start contacting and hiring beastmen. What happens next depends on the PCs but they might in fact release Orkus from his prison when destroying the Temple of Elemental Evil... btw one of the PCs is unknowingly a descendant of the (deceased) legitimate rulers of Halag, so she might well develop a personal quest when she discovers who her parents really were and why they were murdered... As I said this is for the most part a patchwork of ideas from others on this list, so kudos and credits to them. Thanks people, I really appreciate your sharing of wonderful ideas... Felix ----- Original Message ----- From: "Havard Faanes" To: Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 3:19 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] Karameikos campaign > Since several people asked, I'll try and provide some > information about my Karameikos campaign. This > campaign has lasted for over 4 years in real time and > most of it exists either in my head or on various > sheets of paper so please bear with me if this comes > out a bit sketchy. > > The campaign is set in Penhaligion, Karameikos. The > overall plot for the campaign is the ongoing struggle > over Traladara (now Karameikos), which began with the > Gnoll invasions. > > This is the battle between the Traladaran Three > (Halav, Petra and Zirchev) who are the protectors of > men, elves and other good races of these lands and > their rivals the Unholy Three (Orcus, Demogorgon and > Arik). The latter sponsor beastman races in these > lands and try to overthrow human civilization and > bring chaos to the world. > > In recent times, both groups have been weak. Arik was > imprisoned in the Dimension of Nightmares and the > other two spent most of their energy trying to free > him. The introduction of the Thyatian Immortals > through the Church of Karameikos turned also turned > people away from the Traladaran Three, and the new > immortals, although providing spells to clerics, did > not share the same investment in these lands as the > Three did. > > And then there was Haven. Haven (Based on James > Mishler's writeup) exists north of the Lake of Lost > Dreams. It was a special land, because it bordered > with the land of Faerie, or the Dreaming. IMC, this > was due to an ancient pact between King Oberon of > Faerie and King Halav, perhaps dating back to the time > when Halav was mortal. This alliance brought a wider > protection to the lands of Traladara, further > weakening the Unholy Three. The protector of this > alliance was known as the Seer. (See my writeup of the > Seer at dnd.starflung.com) > > In my campaign, the PCs gradually became protectors > and Knights of Penhaligon and one even married lady > Arteris becoming the ruler of the land. However, their > greatest adventure was at least in part a failure. The > Clerics of Orcus and Arik have long been conspiring to > free Arik from his prison. Seizing control over Haven, > they managed to free their Immortal ally and lord and > launched armies of orcs and human mercenaries to > conquer Karameikos. However, they were too impatient > to send out their armies and the orcs were vanquished. > Utterly. However, the victory was a bitter one as they > knew that Arik remained free now. (This adventure was > based losely on B3) > > Still, life became peaceful in Karameikos, in spite of > the Wrath of the Immortals events happening in the > rest of the world. Arik seemed to be too weak and > Haven remained a free land. But then came the day when > one of the PCs killed the Seer. > Why he did this is quite complex and I will only say > that he had been tricked into making a pact with the > witch Grizzelda (see Witches of Dymrak writeup on > starflung). The only way out of this was to either > give Grizzelda his baby son or slay the Seer. The Seer > could probably have defeated the young knight, but for > some reason allowed himself to be killed in a rather > Obi-wan Kenobi-esque fashion. > > The consequences were catastophic. With the Seer slain > by a man of Traladara, the pact with Faerie was > broken. The border between Haven and the Dreaming was > altered, the Dreaming pulling away. Unfortunately, the > Dreaming was the only thing between Traladara and the > Dimension of Nightmares. Now, the twisted forces of > Arik are launching an invasion of epic proportions > into Mystara through Haven. Only the Immortals may > know how this will end. > > > > > --- Felix Holtschoppen skrev: > > Hi, > > I'm very interested, too, since I have some similar > > plans for my campaign as > > well. So, perhaps you could send these ideas through > > the list, if you no one > > objects, that is. > > > > Felix > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Thibault Sarlat" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 12:48 PM > > Subject: [MYSTARA] Who is the equivalent? answer to > > Havard > > > > > > > I 'll be very interested to know more about the > > campaign you set with the > > > reunification of the unholy three. > > > > > > Please send me as many info as possible. > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > Thibault Sarlat. > > > Techniques de l'Ingénieur > > > Port: 06 84 92 32 55 > > > Fax: 05 56 96 85 24 > > > www.techniques-ingenieur.fr > > > > > > ICQ 16622177. > > > Personal homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st > > > thibault.sarlat@wanadoo.fr > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Havard Faanes" > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 10:07 AM > > > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Who is the equivalent? > > > > > > > > > > IMC at least, his main interest is still the > > beastman > > > > races of Karameikos as his main rival is Halav. > > > > Together with Demogorgon and Arik, they make up > > the > > > > Unholy Three, opposing the Traladaran Three who > > > > protect the land. Ofcourse, with Arik trapped, > > the > > > > Unholy Three are incomplete, but should they be > > > > reunited... Anyways, that has all happened IMC > > so my > > > > players are struggling already... :) > > > > > > > > Håvard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Magister Mystaros > > skrev: > > > > > Joe wrote: > > > > > > > > > > < > is in > > > > > Mystara?>> > > > > > > > > > > Um, yes, that would be... Orcus! Ta daa! (^_^) > > > > > > > > > > He's listed in the Wrath of the Immortals Book > > One: > > > > > Codex of the Immortals. > > > > > According to the history, he was a Devil Swine > > in > > > > > Traladara long ago. He was > > > > > sponsored by Thanatos. On Mystara, he's not so > > much > > > > > about undead mastery as > > > > > simple, pure, violent destruction. > > > > > > > > > > James > > > > > > > > > > ****************************** > > > > > James "Mystaros" Mishler > > > > > Freelance Writer and Troubleshooter > > > > > mystaros@earthlink.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > > > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > > > > > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > > > > The Mystara Homepage: > > http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > > > > To unsubscribe, send email to > > > > > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > > > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the > > message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > > > Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på > > http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ > > > > Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med > > superkvalitet og dobbelt så > > morsom > > > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > > > The Mystara Homepage: > > http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > > > To unsubscribe, send email to > > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > > The Mystara Homepage: > > http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > > To unsubscribe, send email to > > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > To unsubscribe, send email to > > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ > Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 22:45:36 +0100 From: Felix Holtschoppen Subject: Re: Combat Stunts Hi, I know this topic dates some weeks back, but I promised Jacob to tell him how it worked with my players... Jacob, you were definitely right about this thing: encouragement is more important than the possibility of misuse. IMC the Fighter with a SR of 11 tried his first stunt (and an easy one of the lowest category) and failed critically rolling a natural 10 on his stunt check and a natural 1 on his attack roll. He never tried it again, arguing that one extra diceroll is one more chance for a total f***up :-) I tried to dissuade him but to no effect. I have since slackened the rule to your original concept but I'm still waiting for him to try a stunt again... So, I'm still a fan of your system and have to admit I was wrong in doubting :-) Greetings, Felix ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacob Skytte" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 2:17 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Combat Stunts Chris Furneaux wrote: > Interesting system. I do concur however that it is a little strange to have > stunts that are always benificial to try but I can understand why you might do > that. I know what you mean, and I do suggest that people change that if they plan to use it, and think their players will use the system in spite of the dangers that might be involved. Right now, I'm not so sure my players would, so I'm giving them a little extra incentive. Felix Holtschoppen wrote: > Well, a +2 to hit and +1 to damage for the opponent in 10% of the cases > shouldn't prove deadly even for 1st or 2nd level characters IMO (assuming > that you're doing your rolls behind a screen, and even if you're not...). If you think it'll work for your players, then I think it's fine if you use those numbers. I'm just happy you're willing to try it out. :) Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 23:13:24 +0100 From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Combat Stunts Felix Holtschoppen wrote: > I know this topic dates some weeks back, but I promised Jacob to tell = him > how it worked with my players... I'm sure that's all right. I've been waiting anxiously for your = feedback... > Jacob, you were definitely right about this thing: encouragement is = more > important than the possibility of misuse. IMC the Fighter with a SR of = 11 > tried his first stunt (and an easy one of the lowest category) and = failed > critically rolling a natural 10 on his stunt check and a natural 1 on = his > attack roll. He never tried it again, arguing that one extra diceroll = is one > more chance for a total f***up :-) Oh dear... That's exactly the kind of reaction I was hoping to avoid. = Don't I just know players too well? *tsks* I've tried it out myself last = session at low levels, and it seemed to work pretty well. I might want = to make a few tweaks. I'll be trying it out at higher levels, when I get = the opportunity, to see how it interacts with Weapon Mastery among other = things. > I tried to dissuade him but to no effect. I have since slackened the = rule to > your original concept but I'm still waiting for him to try a stunt = again... You wouldn't happen to have a thief in the group? Thieves should be = pretty good at stunts and could make good use of the extra benefits. = Encourage some of the other players to try it out; as soon as somebody = sees what benefits they can receive from it, they'll all be more willing = to try. And hopefully your battles will soon be more fun. Maybe you = should watch some cool fantasy movies and discuss what kind of stunts = the actors are playing out? I know my players got a kick out of that = after our session. > So, I'm still a fan of your system and have to admit I was wrong in = doubting > :-) Well, I understand perfectly. Giving something away for free doesn't = exactly seem like a good idea, but in this case you're gaining much = cooler battles in return for a few benefits for the players. I think = everybody wins. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 16:35:46 -0600 From: Magister Mystaros Subject: Re: Global Interaction DM stated most emphatically: <> Yes, indeed Alphatia was torn by centuries of civil war. You just have to look to the map of Alphatia to see this, though it is not delved into in at all in the histories. Why do you think there are the Randel and Haven walls, and the Randel, Bettellyn, Theran, and Arogansa lines? Not to mention the city of Citadel. Just about every nation on Alphatia has physical (and perhaps magical) barriers put up against the other. Why? If it was all one big happy country, like say, the United States, there wouldn't be any such lines of defense. Obviously, there is an extensive history of internecine warfare between the kingdoms. <> One word: Thyatis. When Thyatis freed itself, and took half the Empire along with it, the Alphatians became reactionary isolationists, for the most part. For all their magical power, they were still at the mercy of screaming hordes of primitive warriors and priests, not to mention no small number of renegade wizards. Since the crowning of the Thyatian Emperor, most Alphatian "muscle" that could be brought together by the Empire was dedicated to defense against or offensive actions against the Thyatians. The various regions of the Isle of Dawn have changed hands dozens of times over the last millennia. << And it's not the fact that they risk losing them that has stopped them from acting this way. If you look at the Alphatian Man-o-war's stats you'll see it's got the Teleport power. It means it can teleport once per day to a known location with the whole crew. It means it can go wherever it wants and go back into the Alphatian's shipyards in a wink if there are any problems! And if certainly it is costly to manufacture a Man-o-war and the Empress doesn't like the risk of losing one, once you've got them, you have to USE them (else why building them at all?) And it doesn't seem to me that Alphatia used the Skynavy often in the last decades before the WotI. So they were kept in Aasla to rot, basically.>> Defense, defense, defense. Or, better yet, detente. Remember, the Retebius Air Fleet came into existence shortly after the Thyatian rebellion. Would any Alphatian emperor be foolish enough to send a skyship on a mission of pure exploration when they were needed to defend against the flights of dragons, pegasi, and other such creatures commanded by Thyatis? <> Historically, until the Age of Exploration in our own world, countries did their best to STOP exploration. The last thing a king or nobles wanted was for their people to find somewhere else to go. And, if we look at just the canonical sources that mention Alphatian exploration and intervention, we see that they failed every last time. Thyatis, Glantri, Ylaruam, Minrothad... every time the Alphatians tried, they failed. Often miserably, usually spectacularly, and always, always with some sort of "blowback," to borrow a modern phrase. Thyatis is now the biggest threat to Alphatia. Glantri is a minor thorn, but trouble no less. Ylaruam... no wizard can go to Ylaruam without being scrutinized, and then probably burned at the stake. Definitely, if he is Alphatian. An Minrothad now dominates trade between Alphatia and the West. So the Alphatians have a wonderful history to look at when they think about going out and conquering someone... or even just exploring. And then, if you tie it in with the Suloise Empire in Greyhack, for example, their meddling there may well ahve caused or partially cause the Invoked Devastation, which brought on the Rain of Colorless Fire, which destroyed the Bakluni and Suloise Empires! Yes, a wonderful record of failure... <> The basic thing you also have to remember about Alphatia is that it is not an organized, unified nation, not by any means. It is a nation of chaotic, selfish, isolationist wizards, for the most part, most of whom want to jsut be left alone to tend to their own interests, whether development of their magical prowess, exploitation of their slaves and lands, or simply blissing out on zzonga. Most of them, the vast majority, see no reason for "adventurism" in foreign lands; there are still plenty of regions on the home islands to settle! The few efforts to go out and conquer have been at ther hands of adventurers, sometimes with Imperial approval and support, often not. And even when Alphatians do have some notion of conquest, it is usually driven agains their neighbors, for previous wars and insults ("Stinking Arogansans! They killed my uncle the last time they poured over the Theran Line! Why invade some primitive island in the far east when we can go show them a thing or two?") So they are not going to support any massive effort to colonize or conquer other regions... look what happened with Thyatis! Remember, they have a long, long memory on Alphatia, where the leading noble wizards can live for centuries. James ****************************** James "Mystaros" Mishler Freelance Writer and Troubleshooter mystaros@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 00:08:34 +0100 From: Felix Holtschoppen Subject: Traladaran Three and WotI Hi, does anyone have some ideas about what position Petra, Halav and Zirchev would take during the events of WotI? Is there anything about this in WotI (I can't remember reading anything about 'em but my memory never served me very well and it's been some years since I've last read it)? All of them could be inclined to side with the Fellowship of the Star, considering that most of their friends & allies are in this group. Nevertheless the quarrels with Vanya combined with the politics in Karameikos (their losing followers due to the introduction of the Thytian pantheon and the Thyatian colonists behavior in general) might bring Halav&Petra to side with Ixion's group. Zirchev's sponsor was Ilsundal (Fellowship of Fire) and he could decide to support the Hierarchs of his sphere, two of which belong to the FoF. Then again I'm not exactly well-read (I haven't even read all of the GAZs, shame on me), so I might have missed some important hints... Though I'd really like to spend more time on catching up with all the sources and invest more time into the development of my campaign, my studies do not allow me to. Therefore I depend on other people's knowledge & ideas. So, are there any suggestions on the Traladaran Three and WotI, perhaps even some ideas concerning a potential conflict between them? Oh, and keep up the amazing level of excellent creative output. It rocks :-) Felix ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 00:50:38 +0100 From: Felix Holtschoppen Subject: Re: Combat Stunts Uhm... yes, I do have a thief in my group, but her stunt rating is relatively low compared to the fighter's (he has the acrobatics skill, superior strength and is on par with the thief's dexterity) IIRC the fighter's SR is 11 the thief's only 5 or 6. After seeing the fighter fail gloriously she didn't even try... Well, I'm sure I'll get them to try it again. Just takes some time, persuasion and opportunities (there wasn't exactly much of it the last session), a big bad opponent that's hard to hit might also help to convince them that some modifier to hit is certainly worth considering :-) Concerning the fantasy movies, well, when we're playing Shadowrun there's no limit to the fighter-player's imagination on coolness & stunts, so I guess some encouragement should be enough... Anyway I personally don't like to use movies in the context of a gaming session, since staring at a screen, turning on/off the VCR etc. is rather an obstacle to creating the right atmosphere, due to it anachronistic flavour. But that's just my experience with this special group of players. So no doubt it works well with others... Felix ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacob Skytte" To: Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 11:13 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Combat Stunts Felix Holtschoppen wrote: > I tried to dissuade him but to no effect. I have since slackened the rule to > your original concept but I'm still waiting for him to try a stunt again... You wouldn't happen to have a thief in the group? Thieves should be pretty good at stunts and could make good use of the extra benefits. Encourage some of the other players to try it out; as soon as somebody sees what benefits they can receive from it, they'll all be more willing to try. And hopefully your battles will soon be more fun. Maybe you should watch some cool fantasy movies and discuss what kind of stunts the actors are playing out? I know my players got a kick out of that after our session. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 1 Mar 2003 to 2 Mar 2003 (#2003-62) *************************************************************