Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 2 Mar 2003 to 3 Mar 2003 (#2003-63) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 04/03/2003, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 17 messages totalling 1153 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Cultures (3) 2. Karameikos campaign (2) 3. Combat Stunts 4. How did the Nucleus of Spheres come to be? (3) 5. Blackmoor update 6. Marco's Questions 7. Implications of "The Radiance."Was:How did the Nucleus of Spheres come to be? 8. Different Mystaras 9. Re [MYSTARA] Implications of "The Radiance." (3) 10. weather ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 09:26:33 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Cultures Asgor Ironfist wrote: > > About thyatian, yes, i already realised this connection between thyatian of > thyatis and latin, thyatian of kerendas and italian, and thyatian of > hattias > and german. But in some text on Vaunts i read that Daro would be an > thyatian > dialect as well, and i think that daro would be english, right? That's one of the big issues: basically, if you look at the language derivation, Daro can't really be English, as it derives mostly from Traladaran and Thyatian (with contributions from Antalian and other languages). Obviously, the Gazetteer uses English for Daro and, in general, for any "Common" tongue, in order to be comprehensible to the readers--think the Karameikan river names in Thyatian: they're english, even though Thyatian is not likely to be english. Even some names in Thyatis itself are English... > And in Bellayne, there's a > lot of english words and names, but Rakastaine would be more like japanese, > i think (at leats, the alphabet is based on the japanaese ideograns), so Yes, Rakastan is Japanese, "Bellaynish" is English. > this probably came from Slag (that the traladarans that colonise this land > originally probably knew and spoke). So, i came to 2 conclusions, > considering this: Or a big migration of this traladarans of bellayne > migrates to cimarron (that could happened, i think), and they brough with > they an "english" dialect, or Slag is the SC english. Two other options: 1) The original human inhabitants of Bellayne were related to the Eusdrians (Saxon-like), and their language is the modern tongue of Bellayne. 2) The English names in Cimarron are translations from the SC common tongue (slag), which, being a Thyatian dialect, can be anything down from Latin... Just my ideas... -- Giampaolo Agosta http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 02:22:01 -0800 From: Darth Darknerd Subject: Re: Karameikos campaign I have recently started with the module T1: Village of Hommlet, and I made this the "Village of Irenke". Irenke was mentioned in one of the PoorWizAlmanac/Joshua Almanac books. Interestingly, the unholy symbol, supposedly of Greyhawk's Zuggtomoy, represents a flaming eye. IMC, I made this an Egyptian-like eye symbol, given the feel of Nithian. This shows how old the evil cult goes back. Also, as it is an eye, so I naturlaly use Arik. This is an excellent fit. I made the cult seemingly more "grey", than just a pure evil group. They present themselves as the saviors of Traladaran people, and hope to oust Thyatian dominion over the lands, naturally with themselves and religion residing over the kingdom. I had one of the main villians present himself and his order like this. I gave the citizens of Irenke (Hommlet) either Traladaran or Thytian names, depending on their background. As a sample, these are some of the names I localized in AD&D2e days: Zert (F2) Tiberiu Balan Agent (F2) Ion Cazacu Rufus (F6) Romanius Dermokaites Burn (MU8) Belisarius Ibuzir Lareth (C5) Licinius Calaphates Spugnoir (MU2, evoker) Serban Nemescu Guard (F3) Kraag Guard (F3) Bashik Brigan leader (F3) Basil Calmer (C3) Crispus Justinian Terjon (C6) Tiberius Stylian Elmo Emil Andrescu Herdsman (F2) Bogdan Kolchak Rannos Davl (T10) Romanos Damascus Greemag (T7, Ass kit) Germanus Arcadius Smith (D3) Stephan Jaroo Ashstaff (D7) Janos Andrei For my latest adventures (http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/ShadowTriad/voi1.html), I am slowly re-documenting them as D&D3e characters. Here's one I did recently: ------------------------------------------------------- Licinius Calaphates, Priest of Arik, Leader of Moathouse Operation: Male human Clr5; CR 7; Medium-size humanoid (human); hp 50; Init +7; Spd 30 ft.; AC 21 (touch 13, flatfooted 18); Atk +7 melee (1d8+5/x2, mace), +6 melee (1d6+5/x2, staff); SA spells; AL NE; SV Fort +7, Ref +4, Will +8; Str 18, Dex 17, Con 16, Int 18, Wis 18, Cha 18. Skills: Bluff +8, Concentration +11, Diplomacy +12, Heal +12, Knowledge (Arcane) +12, Knowledge (Religion) +12, Spell Craft +12, Spot +8, ; Feats: Ambidexterity, Improved Initiative, Two-Weapon Style, Weapon Focus (Mace) Spells Prepared (5/4/3/2, base save of DC = 14 + spell level): 0—Cure Minor Wounds, Guidance , Light, Resistance; 1st—Bless, Bane, Cause Fear, Magic Weapon*, Sanctuary; 2nd—Darkness, Desecrate*, Hold Person, Silence; 3rd—Animate Dead, Blindness, Magic Circle versus Good*, Prayer. Equipment: Breast plate +1, masterwork heavy mace, Phylactery of Freedom of Movement, Ring of Protection +1, Staff of Power Languages: Thyatian, Traladaran Tactics: In the Moathouse, Licinius will prepare well placed Glyphs of Warding with a sonic attack inside and outside area ([insert area number]). The glyphs will be triggered by those not having a cloak with the eye symbol. Licinius will prepare self-enhancement spells at the sign of the battle if time permits and will later enhance his troops with Bless, Prayer, and Magic Circle versus Good. During the battle, Licinius will attempt to take out spell casters and instruct his troops to do the same, and will also attempt to neutralize noticeably power PCs. Development: Licinius is very confident of his religion and organization to the point of arrogance. Any player’s that attempt to flatter him or his organization will gain a +5 circumstance bonus when trying to get information from him through Diplomacy. If player’s show genuine interest, or make a successful Bluff check feign interest, in his religion or order, or display interest in joining his organization, the player’s will get an additional +5 circumstance bonus to extract information through Diplomacy. Licinius’ arrogance and pride stem from his devotion and sacrifice toward accomplishing the goals of his Immortal. As such, attempts at Intimidation will suffer a -5 circumstance penalty. Once every twenty days, Licinius leads expeditions to a meeting rendezvous with others of his order. He will travel with a troop of 4 – 6 guards, his lieutenant, and a few gnolls. The bugbears will remain near the moathouse in order to scout the area on continual patrol during these expeditions. ------------------------------------------------------- Hope this adds some inspiration. :-) - Joaquin __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 09:00:18 -0300 From: Asgor Ironfist Subject: Re: Cultures Hi again Well, until some days ago (before posting in this list), i used to think that Daro is a independent language, not related to thyatian. But i think that's not impossible, since they probably had a big influence from the antalians (like RW english and vikings), thyatian (like RW english and romans... and the hattian "germany" people as well might have something to do this this), and, who konws, some glantrian influence too (specially from Sylaire and Klantyre, i think). There's still the hin and elven influence, that might had helped too. So i think we could have an english dialect coming from this thyatian/antalian influence (and the other influences...)... Well, if Hattian is an Thyatian dialect, i think that Daro could be as well! hehehe Yes, this translation to the reader's language is very possible, but everything in Cimarron is in english, and the other baronies, 75% (i think) of the names are in spanish/portuguese with a translation with it. Ok, they never put the "real" name of the Colony of the Horn (that would be Colônia do Chifre), or never translated Terra Leãoça (that would be... i'm not sure, but i think that it would be Lion-Jaguar Land, beacuse i think Leãoça is an contraction of Leão and Onça), but even the names is in english in Cimarron (John of the Wain, for example). Despite this, sometimes i like to think that Threshold have this name because of the daro (threshold is so close to darokin...) I think this idea of an eusdrian influence a possible one. And this would fit well with the "bellaynish migration" to cimarron. But we would need to have another language or dialect on SC, and i never heard about this one. That's why i think that Slag itself would be our SC english. Ah, and sorry for the "Rakastaine", that's beacuse i translated Rakastan to Rakastano in portuguese, and i mixed the two names, sorry for that. By the way, Rakastan leads me to another question, about Ochalea. All ochalean names makes me think that this would be an mystaran China (or Korea, i don't know the difference, sorry), but some of the texts on Vaunts about Ochalea makes me think that it would be like Japan... which one is the correct? Or none? Or both? In fact, i have an theory about this, i hope you don't mind if i put it here, hehehe. The original ochaleans would be sthokarian colonists, simmilar to the ethegarians. They start developing a more sedentary culture there, and some rakastas learned their culture. Then the alphatians conquered Ochalea, and this rakastas migrated to another place (pehaps Sind, and then Yazak Steppes?), and both human peoples started to live together and mix freely. So the original people of Ochalea never dissapeared, they have been there all the time. But, like Renardy, there's one upper class culture, with great alphatian influence, simmilar to the RW China, and another one, more simmilar to the ochalean original culture, simmilar to the RW Japan. In fact, i did it because one the players of my rpg group ask me to have an pc like Rurouni Kenshin, an samurai of the Meiji Revolution. So i changed a little the ochalean independence (it was more close to the Meiji revolution), and start to think about this idea that i just said... what do you think about it? Sorry if someone else already had this idea before and i'm here speaking if i had it first. Tchau para vocês Guilherme de Texeiras _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger: converse com os seus amigos online. http://messenger.msn.com.br ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 14:24:22 +0100 From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Combat Stunts Felix Holtschoppen wrote: > Uhm... yes, I do have a thief in my group, but her stunt rating is > relatively low compared to the fighter's (he has the acrobatics skill, > superior strength and is on par with the thief's dexterity) IIRC the > fighter's SR is 11 the thief's only 5 or 6. After seeing the fighter = fail > gloriously she didn't even try... Yeah, ok, it's just the 18 Dex, Acrobatics, Danger Sense, Acting thief = in my group, who's got the best SR and makes up for the not so good = THAC0 and damage with stunts. ;) > Anyway I personally don't like to use > movies in the context of a gaming session, since staring at a screen, > turning on/off the VCR etc. is rather an obstacle to creating the = right > atmosphere, due to it anachronistic flavour. But that's just my = experience > with this special group of players. So no doubt it works well with = others... That's not what I meant. We usually sit down *after* a session and watch = a movie or two, often fantasy movies. So one of the players said, "Hey, = that's a cool stunt; I'll bet he gets +3 to damage." and the ball = started rolling... :) Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 15:20:44 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: How did the Nucleus of Spheres come to be? --- Ramses Ramirez skrev: > MML, > > The title says it all.. > > 1)Can someone please fill me in on how the NoS was > created, by whom, and why? Most of my Mystaran > resources are home so I can't flip through those > right now. See my article about the FSS Beagle on www.geocities.com/havardfaa/blackmoor.html Basically, the NoS was the reactor of an alien space vessel. It was turned into a magical artifact by the Old Ones for unknown reasons. Then it was tinkered with by Noumena so that it would drain magic so as not to make the Sphere of Energy too powerful. > 2)Has anyone ever worked on rules on how the > Radiance is used post-WotI? As I understand it, the > Radiance used to draw energy from the Sphere of > Energy but after WotI it had been altered to draw > energy from Entropy instead... So how does this > change things? If I am not mistaken, I believe there > is nothing in canon about this. The game designers forgot about that when they wrote the Glantri box for AD&D. There have been various theories about this. Bruce Heard wrote that since Entropy feeds on any kind of draining, draining Entropy itself will have basically no effect in the long run. The powers will still work though and the NoS probably produces Entropic Immortals rather than Energy ones now... Havard ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 15:24:30 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Karameikos campaign Thanks Felix, your ideas seem pretty interesting too. My campaign is also in many ways based on ideas stolen from others on the list plus rewrapping a bunch of the old D&D modules. My campaign started sometime before AC1000, and is currently in AC1007. I more or less follow the official timeline, but not quite and I probably will divert further from it as we approach 1010 and on.. Cheers, Havard --- Felix Holtschoppen skrev: > Wow, sounds like a great campaign, lots of fun and a > lot of emotional > involvement on the players' part! > Though I haven't read the sources you mentioned > about Haven and the Seer > (must do this ASAP), I can guess from your notes, > that the campaign dates > from about 1000 AC (more or less) through WotI and > on... > Actually I'm thinking about doing something very > similar in my campaign. > Most of the ideas came from people on this list, > though. My campaign is set > in 999 AC (so the player's have some time to get to > learn Mystara & the KW > having never before played OD&D let alone in > Mystara) and after having > established the Black Eagle Barony and the Iron Ring > as main villains > (running through the Eye of Traldar and the first > adventure from the KoK > boxed set adventure booklet among others), Joaquin's > ideas for "Epic > Adventures" came in quite handy. I just ran through > Elwyn's Sanctuary from > B1-9. What the PCs are just starting to figure out > is that there is more to > the Black Eagle / Iron Ring axis than they had > thought. There's a pact > between Loki/Bozdogan, Orkus and some third immortal > (who exactly, I haven't > decided yet, but probably Demogorgon). Orkus is > imprisoned at the moment (I > plan to run the Temple of Elemental Evil as > suggested by Joaquin), > Loki/Bozdogan and the Master of Hule are trying to > use Ludwig Van Hendricks > as a toy to levvy some humanoid troups and bring > Karameikos to Civil War, so > it will not be of any help to Darokin when the > invasion begins, or it might > even be the base of operations for some > "backstabbing" raids from the Black > Eagle Barony. Therefore Loki tempted Elwyn (from > B1-9) in the guise of > Leptar (who is actually banished/defeated or > whatever happens to Immortals) > to steal the bell of Chardastes (to weaken the > belief in the Traladaran > pantheon) and start contacting and hiring beastmen. > What happens next > depends on the PCs but they might in fact release > Orkus from his prison when > destroying the Temple of Elemental Evil... btw one > of the PCs is unknowingly > a descendant of the (deceased) legitimate rulers of > Halag, so she might well > develop a personal quest when she discovers who her > parents really were and > why they were murdered... > > As I said this is for the most part a patchwork of > ideas from others on this > list, so kudos and credits to them. Thanks people, I > really appreciate your > sharing of wonderful ideas... > > Felix > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Havard Faanes" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 3:19 PM > Subject: [MYSTARA] Karameikos campaign > > > > Since several people asked, I'll try and provide > some > > information about my Karameikos campaign. This > > campaign has lasted for over 4 years in real time > and > > most of it exists either in my head or on various > > sheets of paper so please bear with me if this > comes > > out a bit sketchy. > > > > The campaign is set in Penhaligion, Karameikos. > The > > overall plot for the campaign is the ongoing > struggle > > over Traladara (now Karameikos), which began with > the > > Gnoll invasions. > > > > This is the battle between the Traladaran Three > > (Halav, Petra and Zirchev) who are the protectors > of > > men, elves and other good races of these lands and > > their rivals the Unholy Three (Orcus, Demogorgon > and > > Arik). The latter sponsor beastman races in these > > lands and try to overthrow human civilization and > > bring chaos to the world. > > > > In recent times, both groups have been weak. Arik > was > > imprisoned in the Dimension of Nightmares and the > > other two spent most of their energy trying to > free > > him. The introduction of the Thyatian Immortals > > through the Church of Karameikos turned also > turned > > people away from the Traladaran Three, and the new > > immortals, although providing spells to clerics, > did > > not share the same investment in these lands as > the > > Three did. > > > > And then there was Haven. Haven (Based on James > > Mishler's writeup) exists north of the Lake of > Lost > > Dreams. It was a special land, because it bordered > > with the land of Faerie, or the Dreaming. IMC, > this > > was due to an ancient pact between King Oberon of > > Faerie and King Halav, perhaps dating back to the > time > > when Halav was mortal. This alliance brought a > wider > > protection to the lands of Traladara, further > > weakening the Unholy Three. The protector of this > > alliance was known as the Seer. (See my writeup of > the > > Seer at dnd.starflung.com) > > > > In my campaign, the PCs gradually became > protectors > > and Knights of Penhaligon and one even married > lady > > Arteris becoming the ruler of the land. However, > their > > greatest adventure was at least in part a failure. > The > > Clerics of Orcus and Arik have long been > conspiring to > > free Arik from his prison. Seizing control over > Haven, > > they managed to free their Immortal ally and lord > and > > launched armies of orcs and human mercenaries to > > conquer Karameikos. However, they were too > impatient > > to send out their armies and the orcs were > vanquished. > > Utterly. However, the victory was a bitter one as > they > > knew that Arik remained free now. (This adventure > was > > based losely on B3) > > > > Still, life became peaceful in Karameikos, in > spite of > > the Wrath of the Immortals events happening in the > > rest of the world. Arik seemed to be too weak and > > Haven remained a free land. But then came the day > when > > one of the PCs killed the Seer. > > Why he did this is quite complex and I will only > say > > that he had been tricked into making a pact with > the > > witch Grizzelda (see Witches of Dymrak writeup on > > starflung). The only way out of this was to either > > give Grizzelda his baby son or slay the Seer. The > Seer > > could probably have defeated the young knight, but > for > > some reason allowed himself to be killed in a > rather > > Obi-wan Kenobi-esque fashion. > > > > The consequences were catastophic. With the Seer > slain > > by a man of Traladara, the pact with Faerie was > > broken. The border between Haven and the Dreaming > was > > altered, the Dreaming pulling away. Unfortunately, > the > > Dreaming was the only thing between Traladara and > the > > Dimension of Nightmares. Now, the twisted forces > of > > Arik are launching an invasion of epic proportions > > into Mystara through Haven. Only the Immortals may > > know how this will end. > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 16:19:18 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Cultures Asgor Ironfist wrote: > Well, if Hattian is an Thyatian dialect, i think that > Daro could be as well! hehehe Certainly. Still, I think Daro owns more to its Traldar/Traladaran roots than to Thyatian/Antalian. > Yes, this translation to the reader's language is very possible, but > everything in Cimarron is in english, and the other baronies, 75% (i think) > of the names are in spanish/portuguese with a translation with it. Ok, they > never put the "real" name of the Colony of the Horn (that would be Colônia > do Chifre), or never translated Terra Leãoça (that would be... i'm not > sure, > but i think that it would be Lion-Jaguar Land, beacuse i think Leãoça is an > contraction of Leão and Onça), but even the names is in english in Cimarron > (John of the Wain, for example). Of course, Cimarron and Bellayne are quite an extreme example, being overtly modeled on RW Great Britain and Far West. Darokin and Karameikos, though, are another issue--there, the English names don't fit that much. > Despite this, sometimes i like to think > that Threshold have this name because of the daro (threshold is so close to > darokin...) Uhm, as a city, Threshold is mostly Thyatian, and there are no passes from Threshold to Darokin. > By the way, Rakastan leads me to another question, about Ochalea. All > ochalean names makes me think that this would be an mystaran China (or > Korea, i don't know the difference, sorry), but some of the texts on Vaunts > about Ochalea makes me think that it would be like Japan... which one is > the correct? Or none? Or both? China, canon-wise (that is, from Dawn of the Emperors). The Japanese names were introduced in a fan-made map & description. > In fact, i have an theory about this, i hope you don't mind if i put it > here, hehehe. The original ochaleans would be sthokarian colonists, > simmilar > to the ethegarians. They start developing a more sedentary culture there, > and some rakastas learned their culture. Then the alphatians conquered > Ochalea, and this rakastas migrated to another place (pehaps Sind, and then > Yazak Steppes?), and both human peoples started to live together and mix > freely. So the original people of Ochalea never dissapeared, they have been > there all the time. Alternately, the culture could be originally Rakastan, while the skotharians could have arrived as slaves of the Alphatians. Indeed, the migrating Rakasta could be the modern Myoshimans (Japanese-like Rakastans that live on one of the moons). > But, like Renardy, there's one upper class culture, with > great alphatian influence, simmilar to the RW China, and another one, more > simmilar to the ochalean original culture, simmilar to the RW Japan. In > fact, i did it because one the players of my rpg group ask me to have an pc > like Rurouni Kenshin, an samurai of the Meiji Revolution. So i changed a > little the ochalean independence (it was more close to the Meiji > revolution), and start to think about this idea that i just said... what do > you think about it? Sorry if someone else already had this idea before and > i'm here speaking if i had it first. Interesting: it would fit the canon WotI timeline of Ochalea much better than the canon Ochalea (peaceful Chinese-like culture only), since in WotI Ochalea declares independence. I'd like to read more on this version of Ochalea. Bye, GP -- Giampaolo Agosta http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 08:03:07 -0800 From: Ramses Ramirez Subject: Re: How did the Nucleus of Spheres come to be? Thanks Havard! Is the problem of 'rad drain' on the Radiance still existent though? Ramses Havard Faanes wrote:See my article about the FSS Beagle on www.geocities.com/havardfaa/blackmoor.html Basically, the NoS was the reactor of an alien space vessel. It was turned into a magical artifact by the Old Ones for unknown reasons. Then it was tinkered with by Noumena so that it would drain magic so as not to make the Sphere of Energy too powerful. The game designers forgot about that when they wrote the Glantri box for AD&D. There have been various theories about this. Bruce Heard wrote that since Entropy feeds on any kind of draining, draining Entropy itself will have basically no effect in the long run. The powers will still work though and the NoS probably produces Entropic Immortals rather than Energy ones now... Havard --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:12:20 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: How did the Nucleus of Spheres come to be? --- Ramses Ramirez skrev: > Thanks Havard! > Is the problem of 'rad drain' on the Radiance still > existent though? There is no reason why the Radience should drain magic anymore. So either rad drain has no effect or some different effect should be caused by the rad drain now as Entropy is being drained. Perhaps undead (and maybe faeries aswell) suffer from this new drainage... Håvard ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 19:37:39 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Blackmoor update About time, eh? Anyways, My Blackmoor website has been updated again. The Articles, News and Gallery sections have been updated with some new stuff and some old stuff has been revised. I wanted there to be more, but thats it for now. Feel free to submit your own stuff too! www.geocities.com/havardfaa/blackmoor.html ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 14:39:26 -0600 From: Magister Mystaros Subject: Re: Marco's Questions Maroc Pontificated: << <> Everything can be done if you have: a. TIME b. WILL That said, I'm doing it, having seen that it's no use waiting for the Mystara 3E Team to put out something in the near future. It won't be graphically as good as the published works, but it will be useful for playing Mystara 3E and it will be free. My only problem is TIME. THat's why I hoped your Mystara would use 3E rules: this way I'd have stopped working on it saving time for other things I have to do :p Btw, isn't it possible to Dual-stat it for Hackmaster and D&D 3E (like many other publishers do, see Pinnacle with Deadlands d20 and Gygax's stuff for Necromancer games)?>> The issue is not it being done in some fashion, the issue is it being done in print, distributed professionally, and sold in retail stores. Also, the issue is getting paid. I am now a full-time writer and game designer. This is how I pay my bills. As for dual-stating, that is not possible, due to the license requirements. It isn't a matter of Kenzer not being able to use D20 in their products in general, it is a matter of them not being able to use D20 with licensed WotC properties in specific. << << We all know each other, that is, all the old fans of Mystara, and I don't know of any of us that has an extra $30,000 sitting around.>> uhm.... only 30K bucks? Ah, but it doesn't take into account the money to buy the license or to distribute the book uh? >> Exactly. Bringing a book successfully to market is neither cheap nor easy. Bringing a book to market unsuccessfully can be cheap, but... << << 1) It will be a COMPLETE Mystara guide. It will cover the entire Known World, and then some. Sure, some folks will weep for the Simbasta, and the N'jatewa, and the Varellyans, but face it, 95% of the setting that was described will still be there.>> Uhm, excuse me, but what do you call the Poor Wizards Almanac? People said there was never a complete guide to Mystara, but the PWA has been there to read for years and I think it's the most complete guide to Mystara one could ever wish for... I hope you Hackwurld of Mystaros will be better, of course. But don't tell me people we never had a worldbook for Mystara coz that is blatantly false. ;)>> Worldbooks and Almanacs are two completely different creatures. A player new to Mystara could not pick up an almanac and just start playing Mystara. It gave enough general details to know what was going on for that year, and enough broad details to get the idea of what Mystara was about, but not enough to really get into it properly. Compare any Mystara Almanac with the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book for 3E D&D. That's the kind of difference I am talking about. << << 2) The Wrath of the Immortals will not have happened. Everything will be set back to 1000 AC. This is a tough one for many to swallow, as, yes, much of the stuff that >was done on this list was done post-WotI, and thus that seems to negate it all. >> And here we come to my main gripe about what's about to happen. Basically, what I fear here is that we'll have two "official Mystaras" going around. We'll have TSR Mystara (or Bruce's Mystara if you want to tie it to a specific designer) and we'll have Kenzer's Mystara (or James's Mystara), and that will cause IMO a lot of problems in the future when fans of Mystara will start talking and debating about the campaign. Why? BEcause the reference material they'll be pointing at and taking as groundbase for their assumptions and adventures and such will be essentially different! That's what I fear: a split of Mystara's fanbase. We're already a few loyalists. Take the small bunch and fraction it and what you're left with is a dying clique that will "metaphorically speakin" war with another tiny cabal of revolutionary fans over the issue of "what's canon and what's not", which Mystara is best and which is lamest. And that's freaking pathetic, but I see it happening. I hope I'll be labeled as a pathetic visionary and all fans will prove to be incredibly smart and mature and not argue on these points. But still the issue of two different groundbases for discussion remains: we'll have 2 different Mystaras to refer to and that will cause a lot of problems.>> This will not be a problem. The HackWurld of Mystaros will be Canon Mystara for HackMaster, not for D&D. The objective is not to simply play to the old Mystara fans, it is also to generate new ones. To be honest, if Kenzer felt that this book would appeal only to Mystara fanatics, it would not be done. It would not be financially feasable. As for "fracturing the fanbase," there is plenty of stuff on the Web doing that right now. Every major (and even most minor) articles published on the Vaults fractures the fanbase into two new groups, those that accept the material and adapt it, and those that do not, and keep going with whatever they themselves have developed (or something that others developed on the same subject before.) << <<3) As far as getting people to START playing in Mystara, there will be no better starting point! DM's and players will have everything they need to start playing in one handy book. Now, if you want someone to play with you in Mystara, either you have to set them down and explain everything to them that will get them "into" the setting, or they have to go and buy a ton of long out-of-print books at exhorbitant prices, or they have to read scores of pages on the Vaults. Neither way is a good way to get new fans. Now, they just buy this book, and bam! They are playing Mystara. Or, rather Mystaros. If you want to convert them, that's none of my business. I think they will want to convert you to the HackMaster version, but hey, that's me... (^_^) >> James, not to be unpolite, but we're talking about teaching people a new gaming system. It takes time and it takes will. And it takes money, of course. And since we already play OD&D and have started with 3E, I don't really see the need to throw in another system which is basically a rehash of AD&D (we are perfectly fine with our OD&D modified rules). ;) >> I think you severely understimate the number of players out there that still play only 1E and 2E AD&D. I don;t know what it is like in Italy, but here in the US there is a HUGE group of players that never made the conversion. Like those who were plain happy with OD&D, they just stuck with the 1E and 2E material, and kept playing. They stopped buying because there was little for them to buy, it not supporting their own favorite game. When 2E came out in 1989, AD&D lost no less than two-thirds of it's "buying players," as in, only one third of players who bought 1E AD&D products and played them on a monthly basis bought into 2E AD&D. The rest just kept on playing their own game, or eventually quit altogether. This according to TSR's and WotC's own marketing studies. The reasons for this were many, but one of the primary reasons was that 2E was "phased in" over a period of time, so players saw little need to buy into the new edition. WotC learned from this, and 2E AD&D was killed cold-turkey: no products were sold for it after a specific time, and if you wanted to buy D&D, you had to get 3E. They also had a far stronger marketing and pre-sales push, as well. So the conversion of players from 2E to 3E was much stronger than 1E to 2E, however, they still lost about 25% of their audience. So overall, there are more players of 1E and 2E AD&D out there than there are players of 3E D&D. They simply are not very vociferous about it. Many have in fact stopped playing by now, due to family, work, school, what have you. Some got back into playing games due to the new edition. Many that I have talked to decided that they didn;t like the new edition, and continued playing, but went back to 1E or 2E. A fair number have jumped to HackMaster as, with HM, you can play it "serious" if you want, just like 1E/2E, but you also have a bunch of cool new races and classes to play with. That's the way I play it, myself. << << 5) To toot my own horn a bit here, yes it will basically incorporate much of my Mystara materials. If you like what you have seen with I have done with Mystara on this list, you will want to get this book. This book will be the definitive "HackWurld of Mystaros" in more ways than one.>> eheh, I remember when we discussed on the list with you, you always made reference to YOUR Mystara campaign, thus throwing us all into chaos and hijacking the topic. I guess now you'll be finally able to refer to your campaign with others knowing what you're actually talking about ;p>> Well, whenever anyone writes anything about Mystara, it is always "in their own campaign." Officially, nothing we have ever done, any of us, on this list, has been "Canon Mystara." Even Bruce's material has only a quasi-official foundation to it. It has all been interpretations of Canon. I've just always been include a disclaimer ahead of time. There will be a similar disclaimer in the Hacklopedia Mystarica, except it will state that the book IS Canon HackWurld for HackMaster. Not for OD&D, not for 2E AD&D, and not for 3E D&D. Just for HackMaster. James ****************************** James "Mystaros" Mishler Freelance Writer and Troubleshooter mystaros@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:53:46 -0800 From: Ramses Ramirez Subject: Implications of "The Radiance."Was:How did the Nucleus of Spheres come to be? I guess I am not understanding why the Radiance ever drained magic from the start a)Why did it drain magic from Mystara pre-WoTI (In other words, why did using the Radiance cause magic drain?) ? b) Why wouldn't its usage drain magic in post-WotI? c) Wouldn't any type of "draining" actually empower Entropy? So in this light, wouldn't rad drain from the Sphere of Entropy actually "strengthen" the undead? And by looking at Havard's site (cool, BTW with many explanations that I was looking for..) I was wondering if there was any information on the Carnifex aside from M3-Twilight Calling? Or is that it? Thanks! Lancer There is no reason why the Radience should drain magic anymore. So either rad drain has no effect or some different effect should be caused by the rad drain now as Entropy is being drained. Perhaps undead (and maybe faeries aswell) suffer from this new drainage... Håvard ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 14:32:26 -0800 From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Different Mystaras Morphail wrote: >>> morphail_o@YAHOO.COM 03/01/03 11:38AM >>> All this talk about hackmastar brought me to think about the way "my = Mystara" is different from the canon one (did I just say the C word?). I would want to hear about how all of you people altered the face of your = gameworld. So here is mine: Alphatia- IMC Alphatian wizards do the massive teleportation to Glantri = for a magical attack. When the battling commences there is such a massive = influx in the use of magic by both sides this causes a "short" in magic = negating all magic for a week on all of Mystara.=20 Ierendi- Is still Ierendi, but Pt. Siers is now Freeport which is designed = on the map of Bral. The government of Freeport is a combination of = Freeport and Bral council members, With Lord Drac being in charge. The = Bral coliseum is eliminated and is now the base for his huge Tower of Drac = (which is bankrupting the city) Darokin- Basically as it is in the Gaz, but have added Lord Stark as an = outcast lord by the other houses who has now decided to hire many = mercenary groups to liberate the ruins of Ardelphia into a new city, which = will be the base of House Stark Ylaruam- For my Ylaruamites it is as is except with one exception. Elves = have always been mistrusted and treated unequally in the realm. Now the = trading houses of Yluarum (I used the Dark Sun Merchant Houses for this) = have declared that elves are to be mistrusted, and the nomadic tribes (who = are lesser trading houses) are a threat to the realm, and have refused to = pay tribute, therefore the Grand Sultan has declared a holy war in = clearing out the troublemaking elves.=20 Atroughin Tribes- Very Quiet in my campaign Alfheim- Burned and ruined. The shadow elves have taken over the dried = dead forest, but in doing so, had to fight the Skull Legion that was based = in the forest which was called The Emerald Legion. When the Alfheim Elves = fled, the legion stayed behind continuing the fight. Things looking rather = bleak, the commanding officer, General Iron Claw ordered his troops to = spread far and wide and to cause as much damage to the now lost realm.=20 The Shadow Elves commanders, Princess Tanadelayo, and Prince Elric of the = Schattenheim Elves (another region on the surface) were outraged watching = their new territory burn up. Elric had his revenge in a final duel with = the General in the alfheim council palace. where he slew the dishonorable = Skull warrior. The Emerald Legion is now no more, and Alfheim is a black = smudge on the face of Mystara. The Serpent Peninsula: Is now the home of the Scro and the 18 tribes of = them. I use the numbers of the Orcs of the Serpent Peninsula but use the = Orc ships from Ships of War series. So instead of 75 war canoes, the Scro = now have 75 War Galley's that hold about 300-500 troops each. The Scro are = known as the threat of the Sea of Dread. Broken Lands- A fractured realm of beasties and humanoids. The Skull = Legion of Fire resides here, but it is seen more as a place of exile than = one of honorable duty. Who would want to do raids in the name of humanoids = legitimately? Davania- I have made Davania, the home of the largest empire in the KW. = The Imperial Elven Navy. And like in SJ are enemies of the Scro. Whenever = the two meet it is usually the IEN who comes out the victor which keeps = the Scro wanderings pretty much to local areas. So now, how is your Mystara different? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 01:35:15 +0100 From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re [MYSTARA] Implications of "The Radiance." Ramses Ramirez wrote>: > I guess I am not understanding why the Radiance ever drained magic = from the start > a)Why did it drain magic from Mystara pre-WoTI (In other words, why = did using the Radiance cause magic drain?) ? Because the Immortals of Spheres other than Energy imposed a magic drain = as penalty for the ability to produce Energy Immortals in other ways = than the regular one. They figured it balanced things. > b) Why wouldn't its usage drain magic in post-WotI? Because (according to WotI) it no longer drains power from the Sphere of = Energy, but instead from the Sphere of Entropy (which does not equal = magic). > c) Wouldn't any type of "draining" actually empower Entropy? So in = this light, wouldn't rad drain from the Sphere of Entropy actually = "strengthen" the undead? Nobody really knows what it means to "drain" Entropy. This has been the = topic of debate before. I don't recall what was suggested. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:45:41 -0800 From: Ramses Ramirez Subject: Re: Re [MYSTARA] Implications of "The Radiance." > b) Why wouldn't its usage drain magic in post-WotI? > Because (according to WotI) it no longer drains power from the Sphere of Energy, >but instead from the Sphere of Entropy (which does not equal magic). But why would the Radiance cease draining magic just because the switch was made from favoring the Sphere of Energy to favoring the Sphere of Entropy? Wouldn't the Immortals feel that a balance would be necessary here (by keeping a 'rad drain' penalty) as well so that Entropy wouldn't get too powerful? Thanks! Lancer --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:07:19 -0800 From: Tech Support FaenWorks Subject: weather Hey there~ I'm new to the list... I'm wondering whether any of you use weather in = your games? Like if it's really cold do you take points off if they = don't pass a saving throw etc.? Patrick Newnan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 00:13:56 -0500 From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Re [MYSTARA] Implications of "The Radiance." > But why would the Radiance cease draining magic just because the switch was made from favoring the Sphere of Energy to favoring the Sphere of Entropy? Wouldn't the Immortals feel that a balance would be necessary here (by keeping a 'rad drain' penalty) as well so that Entropy wouldn't get too powerful? The whole Wrath of the Immortals war was fought to stop the drain of magic from occurring. It was essentially a civil war within the Sphere of Energy between Ixion (ruling hierarch), who wanted to stop the use of the NoS, and thus stop the magic drain, and the renegade Rad (of Glantri), who owed his Immortality to the NoS, and not to an Immortal sponsor. Rad's refusal to stop using the NoS (which was causing rad drain) led to the devastating war between the followers of thse Immortals, their allies, and entropics seeking to capitalize on the situation, and cause more death and destruction. In the end, the NoS was altered by the Old Ones (who preceeded the Immortals, and whose power dwarves that of Immortals) so that it would no longer cause the rad drain on Mystara's inherent magic. The subject of what type of Immortals are created by the NoS, post-Wrath, has been much debated, without any clear outcome (it really depends on your own campaign, and what you prefer). But... 1. The NoS no longer drains Energy (i.e. rad force). 2. The NoS can still be used to achieve Immortality, if its secrets can be mastered. Maybe it still results in Energy Immortals, maybe Entropic, maybe the new Immortal can choose his sphere. 3. The NoS "drains" Entropy, whatever that means. Maybe a drain on Entropy is the strengthening of all of the other spheres, in which case, entrophics would plot to deter the use of the NoS, most likely. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 2 Mar 2003 to 3 Mar 2003 (#2003-63) *************************************************************