Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 17 Mar 2003 to 18 Mar 2003 (#2003-78) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 19/03/2003, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 9 messages totalling 416 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Corliss Enterprises, Ltd. 2. Global Interaction (5) 3. Mysatara 3D Map? 4. Rafiel's Home Plane (2) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 15:54:11 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Corliss Enterprises, Ltd. Wow, this website has alot of cool stuff! :) Keep up the good work and let us know about more updates 'aight? Havard --- Brendan Corliss skrev: > "Greetings Friends! Corliss Enterprises has recently > undergone a major transformation. We have recently > made some much needed improvements to our uniquely > Mystaran reference centre. Please stop by and see > what > you think of the changes; we're confident you'll be > delighted. > > And may all your endevours be Gold! > > Brendan Corliss > Proprietor, Corliss Enterprises, Ltd. > Darokin City" > > http://www.geocities.com/brendan_corliss/ > > OK, OK, so there's the in-character hype and here's > the real deal: > > I've given Corliss Enterprises a facelift and > (sorely > overdue) update. Unfortunately, there are still some > bugs and pages under construction, but there is also > alot of new and improved stuff. So, if you haven't > checked out the site in a while - or, especially if > you've never checked it out - I think you'll find > something interesting (even if you have a difference > of opinion on how I've presented something). > > Anyway, please take a look if you feel so inclined > and > sign my guestbook. Oh yeah, don't forget to read the > FAQ; it will clarify things tremendously. And, yes, > ANY feedback is encouraged (good, bad or > indifferent). > > Thanks! > > -Damon > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online > http://webhosting.yahoo.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 09:56:36 -0800 From: Joaquin Menchaca Subject: Re: Global Interaction Well, As a soldier or citizen in USA (and probaly other countries), we are all second-rate subjects depending on your class. If you are poor, there's not many avenues of social mobility as there used to be. Even those that become extremely wealthy are not a part of the elite society of Rockefellers or Venderbelts. In the military, there is upward mobility based on who you know and possibly performance. However, it's not likely that one of them will become president.* The same in Alphatian military. There's not much hope one will be the ruling class from just a soldier. The ruling class was always a priviledge class. A soldier might be bright enough to even learn magic, but still cannot join the ruling class. The same is true of most feudal nobility of the Dark Ages. In Thyatian, there is a chance to impress one's way into court, and then assassinate them, and place yourself in that role. This was true of the Byzantine Empire as well especially with the likes of Basil. In that world (Byzantine Empire), everyone wanted the purple shoes and it didn't matter who got them. But it was not easy to get into the court, but it was possible. The Roman/Byzantine Empire was not as racist or classist as northern cultures, where many people were pegged into a paticular class. Those outside of the elite group cannot rule, period. Whereas in the Roman Empire, those that learn the way of the Romans (educated) can have authority in their land. In other cultures like Great Britain, only those conquering nation can rule. The Alphatians could be from the classist type of society, where moguls cannot rule, only the wizards cannot rule. Perhaps it's a little deeper, where only those of Alphatian descent can have total dominion and be trusted. In Thyatian, everyone is mixed, from different backgrounds, and anybody anywhere can have complete dominion provided the opportunity and a lot of luck. * Though some are surprising dumb, but then look at the president... > ATTACHMENT part 4 message/rfc822 > Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:04:47 +0200 > From: Alexis Vasileus > Subject: Re: Global Interaction > > > > May I remind you that Torenal, High General of > > > Alphatia, wasn't a > > > spellcaster? :) > > > > > Yes, and he is considered a second-rate subject, > merely a pet of the > Empress not really worth as much as the > spellcasters. > > >As a soldier, you obey, do not question, just obey. > > You obey, but if you will remain a second-rate wog > all your life, you are > not motivated to do your best. You just do what you > have to and that's it. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 10:11:23 -0800 From: Joaquin Menchaca Subject: Mysatara 3D Map? Someone once did a 3D Mystara map. It's really cool. However, I know someone did this in some 3D program, and I was wondering if I could get a big map, pre-WotI. Anyone know how to get in contact with the author. All I have is this scrap: http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/ShadowTriad/images/myst3d.jpg I would like to have a bigger map where I could use ImageMap to create clickable regions, similar to this web page: http://aquela.com/roleplaying/Aquela/world/index.html __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 20:33:07 +0200 From: Alexis Vasileus Subject: Re: Global Interaction > As a soldier or citizen in USA (and probaly other > countries), we are all second-rate subjects depending > on your class. If you are poor, there's not many > avenues of social mobility as there used to be. Even > those that become extremely wealthy are not a part of > the elite society of Rockefellers or Venderbelts. No, but they are citizens of the USA, are guaranteed certain rights, and can influence the government in whatever small way they have, via voting. All that is missing in Alphatia. If you are not a spellcaster, you are nothing. > The same in Alphatian military. There's not much hope > one will be the ruling class from just a soldier. The > ruling class was always a priviledge class. A soldier > might be bright enough to even learn magic, but still > cannot join the ruling class. The same is true of Actually, if a soldier learned magic, he'd automatically join the ruling class. He might be dirt-poor, but he'd still be considered far above his fellow soldiers who cannot cast spells, and would receive preferential treatment. Alexis Vasileus, aka Solmyr the Azure World of Enothril - http://enothril.topcities.com/ Solmyr's Miscellany - http://solmyr.blogspot.com/ Archmage's Tower - http://www.geocities.com/solmyr.geo/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 15:20:50 EST From: Shawn Johnson Subject: Re: Rafiel's Home Plane Because RL keeps me quite busy, I'm forever behind in reading MML posts, so you'll have to forgive the extreme "lateness" of this reply. In a message dated 3/9/03 9:15:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, chimpman.geo@YAHOO.COM writes: > > Hi All, > > Here is a little idea I had about Rafiel and his home plane. I put this > together a while back (after buying the 3E Manual of the Planes) and just > thought I'd share with the list. > > Hope you enjoy. > Whoa! Did I enjoy it? Hell yes...very impressive, thanks for sharing. Anyone else have write-ups describing the homeplanes of a particular immortal? Hope Shawn Stanley noticed the piece, because it seems very worthy of a place on the Vaults! What do you say Shawn, is there room (or are you two steps ahead of me by now)? ~ Shawn Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 15:24:06 EST From: Shawn Johnson Subject: Re: Global Interaction In a message dated 3/16/03 12:41:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, mgelman@CITY-NET.COM writes: > Heck, look how well underarmed natives have fended off much stronger > nations in the real world - Vietnam, Russia in Afghanistan, etc. > Sentimentally motivated locals almost always have a chance against > arrogant foreigners in fantasy, let alone real life. > > Also, the feasibility of maintaining long-range empires is poor. The > history of real-world empires in this mold is one of failure - just look > at how well Great Britain or Spain held on to their overseas territories. > The logistics are just too difficult. All this is true but I don't think successful resistance by natives or even difficult logistics are the major reasons why Alphatia is so ineffectual as an empire. I think it is simply because the arrogant, "me-first" attitudes of many of their rulers makes it difficult and rare for them to cooperate enough to focus their strength. I don't doubt that if there was less political squabbling and infighting (literal) amongst Alphatians that they could easily (in time) conquer the entirety of Mystara. But the fact is, when Alphatian wizards feel like snubbing the directives of their emperors or commanders, they often have enough power to get away with it (in the short run). With division like that amongst the rulers, it's no wonder they can rarely focus their might (luckily for the rest of Mystara)! Alphatia's wizards are mostly complacent too, they don't care about conquest---usually. And even when they do build up steam, governance by committee & political backstabbing hamstrings things time and time again. However, Alphatian wizards do seem to be slowly spreading across the regions around the empire, and though there may never be a global Alphatian empire, the influence exerted by Alphatian expatriots seems to gradually cover a larger area as time goes on. ---- Shawn Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 07:37:15 +1100 From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Rafiel's Home Plane At 15:20 18/03/03 EST, you wrote: > Because RL keeps me quite busy, I'm forever behind in reading MML > posts, so you'll have to forgive the extreme "lateness" of this reply. > > In a message dated 3/9/03 9:15:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, > chimpman.geo@YAHOO.COM writes: >> >> Hi All, >> >> Here is a little idea I had about Rafiel and his home plane. I put this >> together a while back (after buying the 3E Manual of the Planes) and just >> thought I'd share with the list. >> >> Hope you enjoy. >> > Whoa! Did I enjoy it? Hell yes...very impressive, thanks for > sharing. Anyone else have write-ups describing the homeplanes of a > particular immortal? > > Hope Shawn Stanley noticed the piece, because it seems very worthy of a place > on the Vaults! What do you say Shawn, is there room (or are you two steps > ahead of me by now)? only 1 and a half at the moment Shawn shawn stanley what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 02:09:56 +0100 From: =?US-ASCII?Q?Andres_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Global Interaction What would be really interesting to determine for Alphatia is to what level the big social division (spellcaster vs. non-spellcaster) reflects a total dislodgement between the possesion of means of production and productive force. Practically speaking, in what degree are spellcaster, big and small, essential for the maintenance and growth of Alphatia's economy and national structures (transportation, security, etc)?? Property is not the spellcasters' sole territory: freemen and gentry can have business, big and small, and engage into trade and industry. The only patrimony of spellcasters is rulership. That situation is quite similar to the Ancient Regime of Europe and to the situation which brought about the French Revolution and the consequent thorough rearrangement of society-economy relationships in Europe. But, of course, this parallel does not take into account the possibility, somehow hinted at in some brief passages of DotI, of magic being an essential part of Alphatian structure: are powerful spells needed to transport goods, to aid harvest in inadequate climates and / or soils, to cut expenses and workers in manufacturing premises (due to the usage of golems, animated objects and other nifty magicks)? are the mages an essential part of Alphatia's army or its power comes mostly from sheer size and standard military power? Or rather, is the majority of mid-level / powerful spellcaster a bunch of idle, individualistic and self-absorbed totalitarian rulers who don't invest their amazing potential in the country's structure? Probably that depends on your individual campaign's outlook. But the choice will have a big impact in the social attitudes of Alphatia's citizens: a) if magicians are "engaged" in keeping and developing the country's structure, then there's a correlation between infrastructure and superstructure (the ideological support which gives ruling rights to magers). In that respect, people's possibilities to advance (from serf to gentry, for instance) are proportional to the nation's reality. It does not mean it's fair at all, it only makes the structure more stable. b) if magicians fall closer to absolutist / idle rulers (political power with no role in the economical structure), then the gap between infra-, structure and superstructure is huge: the status quo has to be kept and maintained by force and fear (hey, in this perspective, those 1000 36th level wizards would probably be a NECESSITY ;-). Probably the first ones to resent the situation would be the gentry... they invest money, risk and hard work but are denied rulership. Probably the non-continental territories -"colonies"- where non-magicians are allowed to rule are like a leeway for the powerful discontent (akin to the service the Crusades provided in the Middle ages for 2nd sons, landless nobles and similar discontents). But for how long would it have lasted before Revolution had broken up, had Alphatia not sunk??? Andres VIVE LA FRANCE!!! BUY FRENCH! LOVE FRENCH! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 23:46:38 -0500 From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Global Interaction > VIVE LA FRANCE!!! BUY FRENCH! LOVE FRENCH! Please keep these politically charged remarks off of a D&D mailing list which is international in nature. Thank you. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 17 Mar 2003 to 18 Mar 2003 (#2003-78) ***************************************************************