Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 21 May 2004 to 22 May 2004 (#2004-112) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 23/05/2004, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 6 messages totalling 535 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Rage of the Rakasta / Escape from Thunder Rift question (3) 2. Dragon's Den (was: Map of Thunder Rift?) 3. Timeline draft (was: Thunder Rift stuff ) 4. Thunder Rift stuff (was: thib in mapping mode) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:27:05 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Rage of the Rakasta / Escape from Thunder Rift question Christopher M Cherrington wrote: > > 4. Rakasta are from Ashai, but no Rakasta will divulge where that place is. > They were chased from their homeland by a dragon. They traveled for years > settling in many different places before settling in TR. This could link them to the Myoshiman Rakasta, who have a similar history -- they escaped from Mystara to Myoshima through a portal, IIRC. -- Giampaolo Agosta http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 17:49:14 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Dragon's Den (was: Map of Thunder Rift?) Some interesting ideas here Chris. However, I thik I would have preferred to see the Dragons Den relocated to the Known World or Thunder Rift. How much setting info is actually given in the adventure itself? Isn't it odd that Duke Stefan would be mentioned if it wasn't at least in proximity of Karameikos, even if that was mentioned in a separate section? Also, I'd love to learn more about those Otter-men. I guess I'll have to dig out that module myself now. Hmm..it is actually quite strange that the module isn't set in Thunder Rift since everything else published around that time was set there... That said, I do like some of your ideas, _and_ I think the Spillworld is an interesting part of the Mystara-verse that should be properly detailed. IMC, I have now decided that Old Alphatia and the spillworld are located within Mystaras solar system, so that travel to these places by using Voidships should be at least theoretically possible... Havard --- Chris Cherrington skrev: > I re-visited the Thunder Rift setting last night, > the scoring system in the Dragon's Den game in the > back does mention Karameikos and the Duke; but it is > not set in the Known World. I did do some write ups > to expand the campaign setting; I used the human > races as a penal colony of settlers after Alphatia > conquered the Cypric Civilization; as there are > remnants of the Cypri that were able to be left > alone and stay as a unique culture. I made the area > a very low magic area, so when Alphatia had its war, > this colony was lost and abandoned. It wasn’t > considered a good place to resettle because magic > was hard to use or come by. The last known human > settlers were Gammarian clerics that are calling for > a crusade to help the last known kingdoms of Pure > Alphatians to the south of Greetland. I was > thinking of using this setting for the Spill World > idea from the Thyatian/Alphatian boxed set, as > having powerful mages come to an area that was not > native to them so it sapped their magic (and other > native creatures, know how to use this channel of > power). Among other races I developed a Celestial > Harpy, don’t let the name fool you, they are just as > evil as before, just beautiful and at higher levels > they can charm in more ways than just by singing. > They are more than just harpy bards, more like magic > sucking mages with bardic singing. Elves were very > isolationist, reclusive and rare. Dwarves were the > power-house until early clashes with a couple of > Alphatian mages that learned the unique magical > properties of the planet and opened up gates to let > more magic in, and several hundred tribes of orcs, > goblins, and other humanoids from Mystara (ever > wonder what really happened to Akhila Kahn and the > Great Horde?) Since then the dwarves have been in a > downward spiral, a very slow and pitiful collapse of > a grand civilization (on the likes that Moria would > have had competition). I have not yet figured out > what to do with the halfling problem; they probably > got gated in as Akhila’s slaves. The dwarves then > freed them thinking they were somehow related > because of their size, possibly even considering > them a half breed of goblin and dwarf, and not even > as a separate race… > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 18:31:43 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Timeline draft (was: Thunder Rift stuff ) --- Andrew Theisen skrev: > Havard Faanes wrote: > Will do as soon as I get home. Mostly just notes, > only a few definitive dates. How do the following compare to your notes then? Timeline events: (in chronological order, more or less) BC ??? Orcs, Goblins and Kobolds enter the valley. They are of relative small numbers, but grow slowly. ?? BC Hutaakans enter the valley (Not canon) BC ca 1000 Gnolls enter the valley, destroying most previous civilizations. BC ?? Elves, Dwarves and Halflings enter the valley. Elves and Dwarves keep to themselves, and distrust between the two races grows. BC ?? Rift Wars: Bloody wars rage between elves and dwarves, lasting probably for a century. Orcs and Goblins raid both sides, blaming it on the other races. BC ?? Rift wars come to an end when the elves and dwarves unite against the Orc and Goblin forces. Orcs are diven out of the Valley entirely, and goblins are driven back to the Burning Hills. Dwarves now settle in the Farolas hills and the elves in the southern Gauntlin forest. The two races have suffered heavy losses and actively avoid contact with eachother. BC ?? Humans (Daro?) enter the valley. They build castles and towns, taking over large portions of the valley. BC ?? Humans encounter the other races of the Valley. Tension between Elves, Dwarves and Men again threaten to cause war, but this is avoided as Goblins and Orcs return, forcing Elves, Humans, Dwarves and halflings to unite against these races. Humans gain respect and friendship of the other races, but distrust between elves and dwarves continue. BC ?? A strange plague spreads in Thunder Rift, but affects only the good races. Eventually the most powerful human clerics manage to turn the plague away, and fought off another wave of humanoid attacks. AC 0 ?? Rise of the Quadrial: The historic Council of Isle is founded with representatives of all four races. The council founds The Quadrial, a group of heroes containing one representative from each race. BC ?? Thragat and Thessandria, former heroes of the first Quadrial, announce their marriage. The two are killed before the pregnant Thessandria can give birth to her Elf-Dwarf child. An Elf-dwarf conspiracy is suspected. Since then all hostilities between the races have ceased. AC ?? Human community grows. Sir Jameson the Defender establishes a fighter's academy south of the Farolas Hills. Mages establish their sanctuary in the Upper Grasslands in what will be known as Wizardspire. Temples are built in Melinir, and Thieve's Guilds established in Melinir and Torlynn (though only the one in Melinir would survive). AC ?? Sword vs Wand: Mages of Wizardspire go to war agains the warrios of Sir Jameson's Academy. The mages unleash devastating magic that turn their enemies lands into what will be known as the Gloomfens. AC ??+1 One year later a group of warrios infiltrate the Wizardspire and kill every last Sorcerer there. AC 1000 ?? Rakasta arrive in Thunder Rift and settle on the Wailing Plateau (Rage of Rakasta) AC 1010 The present. The above is based mainly on the Thunder Rift module. Events from other modules needs to be added, also I have a few more ideas for minor alterations, but i'll wait with those untill I hear what others have to say. Havard ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 18:53:54 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Thunder Rift stuff (was: thib in mapping mode) --- Andrew Theisen wrote: > I agree. No reason not to use all the old material > as much as possible. Especially when some of it is > pretty good quality (as the TR campaign setting is). TR is actually pretty good, but extremely clicheic, which I find a bit annoying. I like the idea of giving such a level of detail to a very tiny environment, I only wish they had placed it somewhere in the KW in the first place. But now that is our job... [KW vs Norwold] > Could be. I vaguely recall the discussion we had > about it on list a long time ago. I think I was > persuaded by arguments to put it into the KW during > that discussion though (James Mishler was one of the > ones who proposed it, IIRC). I think I hadn't > realized until that discussion just how small the > map of TR really was, and it wasn't until then that > I understood that it could very well fit onto one of > the KW maps. There are actually a lot of little > valleys it could fit. IIRC, the valley is almost 24 miles North-South, but less than half of that wide, so it will easily fit into any 24 mile hex from the old Expert KW map. Where exactly would you locate it? Between Alfheim and Rockhome is somewhat vague. Would it be in a Mountain of Hill covered hex? We should probably make a KW map indicating the location. > >A few ideas: > >* The Newt Race (from Knight of Newts) needs to be > >developed. > > They could be offshoots of the Frog-man race created > by the Temple of the Frog in Blackmoor days. The > description (aside from the physical one) is almost > verbatim the Bullywug description from AD&D, and > frogs and newts are both amphibians. IMC, there are > toad-men (who worship Stodos, Lord of the Icy Wastes > from MSOLO 1), Frog-Men, who are mostly found only > on the Serpent Peninsula nowadays, and the Newts, > who are in TR and other as yet undisclosed > locations. Ah, lots of nice ideas here. The Stodos connection is perfect. I like the Newts. Their description also says that some Newts have evolved beyond the brutalities of the rest of the race and have been integrated in Human culture. I think perhaps this calls for a High Newt subrace... > Also, if we go with the Valley near Darokin idea, in > module CM9: Legacy of Blood, in the borderland > dominion therein (just south of Alfheim, near > Dolos), it was speculated that the underwater ruins > there might have been of Blackmoor origin. So there > we have reason for a Blackmoor presence (not to > mention the shadowelves, who moved "close" to > Blackmoor- or given the later move of that region, > one of its Brun colonies.) I agree that there are alot of nice ideas to play with here. I have always wanted to do something with that city from CM9 aswell. (It was the first D&D module I bought, actually.) > >* The Bywater Gate, possibly of Hutaakan origin > must > >be incorporated, and may explain issues like the > >Monolith and other mystical sites. > > I like the ties with Hutaaka, especially since the > outer world remnants of that culture are largely > confined to "another" Lost Valley. Perhaps there is > some hutaakan magic that helps hide their valley in > the Altan Tepes, and was also used on TR? Maybe tied > in with the Monolith? In other discussions, I have suggested that the Hutaakans were once found in most of the mountainous regions of the Known World, thus explaining the large number of Lupins in the world. I like the Second Lost Valley theory aswell. For magic hiding the Valley: What if the Monolith is a rock from Myoshima. According to VotPA the rocks there have a special property of bending light, which helps making that moon invisible. Perhaps the Hutaakans of TR pulled the Monolith from the sky with their magic, and used it to create some sort of invisibility effect on the Valley? This means that most of the races entering the valley must have wandered in there by chance. Having the Monolith be from Mysohima can also lead to the explaination of the presence of the Myioshima-like Rakasta from Rage of Rakasta, assuming that we go for that theory. Perhaps they arrived through some sort of portal. Hmmm...alot of gates here.. Maybe the gates between Traladara and Thunder Rift were set up by the Hutaakans simply to provide communication between the two Hutaakan civilizations. When the Gnolls invaded, the Portals were lost and forgotten. > There may be other valleys of lost hutaakan magic > out there, then, as well. Indeed. Actually, what if the city in CM9 was also in fact not a Blackmoor city, but another Hutaakan city. Since the Hutaakans seem to have a thing for gates, perhaps the Hutaakans of that city opened gates to the elemental plane of water, thus explaining why the place flooded. > >* Inclusion of the Dwelf (Dwarf+Elf) race uniquely > >important to Thunder Rift. (from the History of > TR.) > > I don't recall this? Was this in one of the TR > products I don't own? The only thing I've found is > the marriage of an elf and dwarf (two founders of > the Quadrial) who were assassinated before they had > children. Sounds interesting if there are dwelfs, > though. Hm... They were assasinated, but the mother was already pregnant, meaning such a union is possible. Whether more Dwelves actually exist is uknown, but it seems like a likely extrapolation from that text. They would hardly be a common race though, but Dwelves would play an important role in TR if they are discovered to exist. Havard ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 19:03:17 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Rage of the Rakasta / Escape from Thunder Rift question --- Christopher M Cherrington skrev: > Answers from the official material... > 1. Bywater is a small town that was destroyed by a > dragon, located 25 miles > from Specularum. In the novels, it was located south of Penhaligon and east of Kelvin (Lavv). This would place it not too far from the ancient Hutaakan center of Xyataqa if the go with the theory that the gate stems from that age. > 2. Thragat the dwarf and Thessandria the elf, were > married and was pregnant, > but all three were brutally murdered and it was > suspected that it was a > joint dwarf/elf conspiracy (it is also a cause for a > strain between the two > races). > From what I can read from the History of TR, both races were so embarrassed by the murder, that hostilities between the two has ended. Other parts of the book suggests that the strain between the races is still very present though. > 3. The location of the Dimensional Pool is within > Hearth-Home, as this > fortress was not only built to protect TR from > denizens within, but those > from other dimensions as well. Perhaps Hearth-Home was built on Hutaakan ruins, thus explaining the creation of the Pool? I don't see the Dwarves having constructed such a gate. > 4. Rakasta are from Ashai, but no Rakasta will > divulge where that place is. > They were chased from their homeland by a dragon. > They traveled for years > settling in many different places before settling in > TR. I like the idea of the Rakasta being from Myoshima. Rage of Rakasta clearly define them as having a Japanese-like culture. The, travelling for many years part doesnt fit too well with that theory, they could just as easly have been from the Savage Coast, if using the japanese-like version of Bellayne, rather than Bruce Heard's English one though. OTOH, the Ashai Province of Myoshima sounds good. PErhaps we can use some of the info from RoR to detail Myoshima further? > 5. The TSR promotional material was 3 adventures > Trouble Below, Palace of > Dread, and Red Hand Trail; all within the > northeastern section of TR. Hmmm... Anything useful in these books? Havard ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 19:07:28 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Rage of the Rakasta / Escape from Thunder Rift question --- Giampaolo Agosta \wrote: [Rage of the Rakasta]: > This could link them to the Myoshiman Rakasta, who > have a similar > history -- they escaped from Mystara to Myoshima > through a portal, IIRC. I like this connection. After finally having a chance to read through RotR, it is clear that they have a definite Japanese-like culture. I'm not sure whether the theory of the Myoshimians beeing from Mystara is official or just something that has been generated on the MML, but I have always liked the idea. Someone suggested that they came from Ochaela, which would help explain the similarities between those two cultures. And as you say, if it goes up, it might very well go down again too... ;) Havard ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 21 May 2004 to 22 May 2004 (#2004-112) ****************************************************************