Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 22 May 2004 to 23 May 2004 (#2004-113) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 24/05/2004, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 12 messages totalling 1030 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Other Mystara sites 2. Races of Thunder Rift (2) 3. Dragons Den in Karameikos (3) 4. Rage of the Rakasta / Escape from Thunder Rift question (3) 5. Timeline draft (was: Thunder Rift stuff ) (2) 6. Dragon's Den (was: Map of Thunder Rift?) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 20:30:16 +1000 From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Other Mystara sites At 02:57 AM 18/05/2004 -0700, you wrote: > From: shawn stanley >> well ideally people who have sites should do the work to ensure that their >> maintained after they've lost interest in doing so because yeah it would >> become excessive if I were to monitor sites for that. > > I have a proposition to alleviate such losses of Mystaran material: I think we > should transform the Vaults of Pandius so that it becomes a real Mystaran > portal where everyone can contribute their material. > This can easily be done by installing Zope and Plone on a server and > configuring it to our needs. Thus, everyone could contribute (rather than Shawn > doing it all himself). People could contribute to the standard structure of the > VoP, but they could also make more personal pages (ie their own websites within > the larger thing). Saving or mirroring/copying it would be easy. > FYI Zope is an open-source application server and Plone a CMS built atop it (free) not having anything to do with all that I can't really comment shawn stanley what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:01:15 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Races of Thunder Rift Just having a quick look at the different races present in Thunder Rift, and I have a few questions: * Humans: These were the last major race arriving in TR. Which culture would they be of? If placed near Darokin as suggested elsewhere, would it be natural to assume that they are of Daro origin? * Dwarves: Could the Farolas Dwarves be linked to any of the clans of Rockhome? * Elves: I am sort of assuming that these hail from Alfheim, could they be linked to any of the major clans from that country? * Halflings: Halflings arrived in Thunder Rift, probably around the same time the elves and the dwarves did. Can this be linked to any special period of Five Shires history? Their main center in TR is in the Torlynn area. * Rakasta: These guys arrived only a few years ago and only have a minor presence. As discussed elsewhere, they are assumed to be from Myoshima. They have recently settled on the Vailing Plateau on in the Gauntlin forest. * Orcs: In addition to Goblins, these represent the main humanoid force in Thunder Rift and has done so since ancient times. IIRC they are found mostly in the Farolas hills, but probably all over aswell. Also mentioned to live in the Great Grasslands. * Goblins: As orcs, but these are found in the Burning Hills. As the word Goblinoid is also used, I assume that they also have Bugbears and Hobgoblins among their numbers, aswell as Kobolds who are specifically mentioned to live in the area. * Gnolls: Gnolls control part of the Gauntlin Forest. These guys probably entered the Valley around BC1000, when Gnolls invaded Traladara and pretty much the rest of the Known World after escaping the control of the Nithians. Bugbears and Minotaurs were probably also among their numbers. * Minotaurs: A band of Minotaurs control the Horned Hills, which lead to one of the exits from TR. There is specifically mentioned that there are Three Minotaurs with a manticore ally living there, but probably other Minotaurs can be found there aswell. They probably entered the valley at the same time as the Gnolls, assuming the theory that Minotaurs were another race created by the Nithians. * Centaurs: Centaurs are found in the Brichtwood, along with Unicorns, and probably other sylvan races (Fauns, Dryads, Fairies) are found here aswell. Centaurs probably also roam the Great Grasslands. * Lizardfolk: Lizardmen and Newts are found in the Marswoods and Black Swamp area. * Trolls: These are an other race found in the Black Swamps. * Ogres: Ogres are found in the Grakken woods, but do not leave the forest. * Undead: Undead creatures can be found in many places of Thunder Rift, especially in the Marshwoods, the Gloomfens and Wizardspire. * Dragons: The bone hills is controlled by a Red dragon, named Scorch. Hmm...did I miss anything? Havard ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:55:08 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Dragons Den in Karameikos Dragons Den in Karameikos Examining the map from Dragon's Den, I realized that it is suspiciously similar to the map of the Gulf of Halag region in Karameikos. Even the desctrptions of the locations and characters are almost the same. It seems to me that the adventure was designed for Karameikos, and then later for some bizarre reason, they decided to change the names. The references to Karameikos and the Duke in the Dragon-game further support this. Sadly I saw that Bruce Heard was still on the team when this adventure came out: I would have though that he wouldn't have allowed such a decision. Anyways, comparing maps/gaz info: Greetland = Karameikos Gulf of Halland = Gulf of Halag Kellshire Dales = Five Shires West March = Black Eagle Barony Castle Kane = Fort Doom Draven of Myrlemain = Ludvig von Hendriks King Ganyard II = Duke Stefan Karameikos Knacker Knob = Luln Bailif Wortley = Yolanda of Luln (Close enough) The Great Swamp = Blight Swamp Dyne Keep = Achelos Keep? Dallow Keep= Riverfork Keep Lavalyn Keep = Koryszergy Keep Forest of Dallow =Riverfork Woods Iron River = Riverfork River Iron Wood = Not sure if this one was ever named. Yarrow = Mirros/Specularum Seatstone Highlands = Not sure if this area was ever named. Rollstone =Werescalot? The three dragon lairs in the area were first mentioned in this module, obviously. The map is slightly skewered though, so perhaps when they saw that the map didnt fit exactly, this was the reason for the change of names? Also, why on earth was this the only product of this series of adventures not to be set in Thunder Rift? I guess we will never know… Havard ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 11:42:34 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Dragons Den in Karameikos Havard Faanes wrote: > Bailif Wortley = Yolanda of Luln (Close enough) Don't you mean Mistress Sascia? (Yolanda is her cousin the singer) > Rollstone =Werescalot? IIRC, there is a Rollstone Keep in the Shires close to Wereskalot. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 11:48:41 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Rage of the Rakasta / Escape from Thunder Rift question Havard Faanes wrote: I like this connection. After finally having a chance to read through RotR, it is clear that they have a definite Japanese-like culture. I'm not sure whether the theory of the Myoshimians beeing from Mystara is official or just something that has been generated on the MML, but I have always liked the idea. Someone suggested that they came from Ochaela, which would help explain the similarities between those two cultures. The Myoshiman portal was from my Pateran timeline originally- before that, we weren't given any indication of how they got to Patera, or even if the Pateran rakasta were in any way related to the Mystaran rakasta. I've since revised my ideas that were in the Pateran timeline, such that the rakasta of Myoshima were a colonial settlement of the Ochalean rakasta, and that the main group of Ochalean rakasta didn't survive the Alphatian ouster (and subsequent takeover) of the island, save in small groups that live in the forests and plains as barbarians. Mostly, I was just concerned that there were too many "portals" linking the planetary rakasta with their moonbound cousins. In any case, the point is that the portals aren't canon, but something I made up. (Of course, if people still want to use them, that's really cool too! ;P) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 13:04:52 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Timeline draft (was: Thunder Rift stuff ) Havard Faanes wrote: > How do the following compare to your notes then? > > Timeline events: > (in chronological order, more or less) > > BC ??? > Orcs, Goblins and Kobolds enter the valley. They are > of relative small numbers, but grow slowly. Were the humanoids the first in the valley? I thought the dwarves and elves were. I may have missed that part, though. In any case, the great migrations of Akkila-Khan and Loark both could have passed through the region and settled there. So put this, c. 1700 BC? > ?? BC > Hutaakans enter the valley (Not canon) This would need to be somewhere between 1500 and 1000 BC, I would think. > BC ?? > Elves, Dwarves and Halflings enter the valley. Elves > and Dwarves keep to themselves, and distrust between > the two races grows. The elves don't arrive in Brun until c.800 BC, IIRC. At that time, the central area of future Darokin is mostly grasslands and plains (until they do all their magic mumbo-jumbo). Perhaps a group of elves splits off from Mealiden's migration at this point and discovers/settles the forested valley of Thunder Rift. As for the dwarves, their own history has the orc/goblin tribal movements of 1000 BC as a major point of their history. Perhaps the settlers of Thunder Rift (led by Farolas, the first dwarf to set foot in TR) were actually pioneering new fortifications to push the invaders out? On the matter of the halflings, I think the best time to fit them in is between 811 and 802, as a group of refugees fleeing the civil war that marked the Clanstrife in Shaerdon. (Some of them may have remained among the elves at this time- there is at least one halfling village in/around Alfheim, in the Emerlas region of the north/northwestern Canolbarth described in O2: Blade of Vengeance). > BC ?? > Rift Wars: Bloody wars rage between elves and dwarves, > lasting probably for a century. Orcs and Goblins raid > both sides, blaming it on the other races. This would have started right around the same time, when the dwarves and elves first make contact. Perhaps this is the origin of the antipathy between the dwarves and elves elsewhere? (It hasn't ever really been explained other than, "elves flighty, dwarves serious"). > BC ?? > Humans (Daro?) enter the valley. They build castles > and towns, taking over large portions of the valley. I don't really recall much about the Daros. I'll have to read up, but I assume these are the clans (such as the Eastwind) who originally settled there? If so, this is reasonable. They were fighting against orcs and orc-kin largely, and largely unsuccessfully, until the arrival of the elves. The elves provide covert assistance, and their presence helps to drive the orcs away. As the humans settled into the region more, they would have expanded outwards, and I could see some of them entering the rift valley. > BC ?? > Humans encounter the other races of the Valley. > Tension between Elves, Dwarves and Men again threaten > to cause war, but this is avoided as Goblins and Orcs > return, forcing Elves, Humans, Dwarves and halflings > to unite against these races. Humans gain respect and > friendship of the other races, but distrust between > elves and dwarves continue. Again, this would probably take place very near the above date (the valley just isn't big enough to *not* encounter the others within fairly short order) > BC ?? > A strange plague spreads in Thunder Rift, but affects > only the good races. Eventually the most powerful > human clerics manage to turn the plague away, and > fought off another wave of humanoid attacks. This is where our timelines differ. I was going to set this as the plague of 802 AC (the Glantri/BL one). It kind of crunches the timeline into a very short period, of course- and that was kind of bugging me- but I mainly did it to attempt to have a "grounding" date from which I could extrapolate the other dates. I kind of like your idea better, and placing it as a "prehistorical" time. If we go with your idea (and really, why shouldn't there have been more plagues in the KW history than just the Glantri one?) I think we could tie it to a Darokinian plague. Specifically, the plague mentioned in module IM2: The Wrath of Olympus. In that module, Ascalon is mentioned as a hero who lived "generations ago" on the northern shore of Lake Amsorak. He went to the east to combat a plague in Corunglain. He went to the north to combat its source and found a plague spewing demon in the Broken Lands. Now, we know that Yagrai was the originator of the Glantrian plague of 802- perhaps that wasn't his first foray into creating plagues? It's quite possible that the unofficial "blight lord" made several attempts at doing so, ever since his ascension to immortality c. 1688 BC (having been Akkila-khan in his mortal life). Anyway, so this earlier plague could be the origins of the larger plague that reached even the valley of Thunder Rift. > BC ?? > Thragat and Thessandria, former heroes of the first > Quadrial, announce their marriage. The two are killed > before the pregnant Thessandria can give birth to her > Elf-Dwarf child. An Elf-dwarf conspiracy is suspected. > Since then all hostilities between the races have > ceased. I'm still intrigued by this part of TR. Just throwing some ideas out here, but perhaps the two races were so disgusted by the thought of the two marrying that a) certain factions did arrange for their deaths, b) the rest were so distraught that they turned their backs on overt hostility and simply avoid one another, and c) the nations from which they were most closely tied- Rockhome and Alfheim- turned their backs on the valley altogether, ceasing any diplomatic contact that they might once have had. As long as they had been aware of the inhabitants of TR, the monolith's magic that kept the valley hidden was not very effective, but once they turned their backs on them, then the monolith was able to do its work, and the clans of dwarves and elves that had entered the valley were only remembered as "lost". Similarly, the inhabitants of the valley also came to believe that the outside world was no longer. > AC ?? > Human community grows. Sir Jameson the Defender > establishes a fighter's academy south of the Farolas > Hills. Mages establish their sanctuary in the Upper > Grasslands in what will be known as Wizardspire. > Temples are built in Melinir, and Thieve's Guilds > established in Melinir and Torlynn (though only the > one in Melinir would survive). Now we're getting into more modern history. From the module "Knight of Newts" it is established that "around 800 years ago) the horned hills were overrun with goblins, leading to the establishment of Castle Kraal. I would assume that Kraal was staffed primarily by warriors from the academy, so if Kraal was built c. 200 AC or so, then the fighters/wizards/etc. schools were probably established a bit earlier, maybe as early as a century before. It took two years for the swamps to be drained and Kraal built, so c.202 AC. (BTW, should we come up with a different calendar for TR? Not based on the crowning of the emperor? "who's that?" Maybe beginning with the founding of the Quadrial. AQ- in which case we should move the date of the founding of the Quadrial so it doesn't match exactly with the crowning of the emperor.) Castle Kraal served dutifully for about 100 years before rumors of decadence among the warriors there really sank in. (c. 302 AC). Then, 7 years later, a new commander was placed in charge, who began to turn things around (c. 309 AC). Unfortunately, before she could completely fix things, Castle Kraal was sunk by mysterious magicks employed by the newts and a traitor to the ranks. Perhaps these events helped to initiate the next phase... > AC ?? > Sword vs Wand: Mages of Wizardspire go to war agains > the warrios of Sir Jameson's Academy. The mages > unleash devastating magic that turn their enemies > lands into what will be known as the Gloomfens. ... as the warriors who heard of Castle Kraal's sinking were probably convinced the wizards had something to do with it. > AC ??+1 > One year later a group of warrios infiltrate the > Wizardspire and kill every last Sorcerer there. Which would follow whatever date we have for the above. > AC 1000 ?? > Rakasta arrive in Thunder Rift and settle on the > Wailing Plateau (Rage of Rakasta) > > AC 1010 > The present. I'm curious why you go with 1010 as the present (I use 1000 myself). Not that it really matters, but just curious. Some other dates that I have: "Centuries ago"- Henrik van Decken joins his Queen's army in a war. Years later, he gets his own ship and attempts to sail around a treacherous and notorious souther cape. He and his crew are cursed, and his ship becomes a ghost ship, seen off and on ever since. It is drawn to TR by the wizards at one point (IIRC, during the war with the fighters). Now this might give us an interesting point of reference. Van Decken sounds like a very Hattian name, but of course, there were no Hattian queens or kings (only emperors). So who was he working for? And during what war? There is a Hattian rebellion in 313 AC (which is crushed by the emperor Alexian II). Maybe this is the time in question? And that treacherous cape sounds to me like the Serpent Peninsula. If so, perhaps van Decken was one of the first sailors to attempt to go around the SP, c. 425 AC or so? (right around the time of first contact with Sind and parts west). Over the next "several decades" their ghost ship is spotted near the cape. Given that, and that around 425 is when a lot of commerce was going on, I'd imagine his ship tried the passage even earlier, so his history might look something like: c.300 AC: Henrik van Decken joins (his queen?) the Hattian rebellion against the Thyatians. c.313 AC: The rebellion crushed, van Decken flees to Minrothad, where he obtains a ship of his own and becomes a successful merchant seaman. c. 320 AC: Henrik van Decken and his crew attempt to make a treacherous crossing around the Serpent Peninsula (in the "teeth" between Yavdlom and the SP). They fail, and are cursed to repeat their journey for eternity. c.350 AC: The ghost ship of van Decken is first spotted by Minrothad sailors plying the trades around Yavdlom. c. 400 AC: Wizards in Thunder Rift, working with dimensional magicks beyond their control, inadvertently summon van Decken's ghost ship to TR. (then, sometime around here, the wizards and warriors go to war) Present -20+ years: The wizard Barrik dies, leaving his tower near Torlynn empty. Present -19 years: Agryl, the son of the Black Knight, is born. He is the last scion of the fighter's academy. (We should work in the BK's role with the fall of the fighter academy, and his subsequent creation of an assassin's academy.) Present -3 years: Lights are spotted in a Barrik's tower. Present -2+ years: The infamous thief Raven commissions goblin servants to build him a new keep. Once the keep is complete, he drives them off into the hills once more. The wererat Keshute comes to Thunder Rift from parts unknown (this doesn't jibe with the 3 years ago mentioned as for the lights, I presume its an oversight on the part of the author of the module). The burgomaster of Torlynn dispatches adventurers to see what is going on in Barrik's tower. They do not return, and a mysterious (and unseasonable) winter begins to set in around Torlynn. Present -2 years: Raven disappears from TR. Most people are not too disappointed to see him vanish, save that his keep becomes overrun with goblins who raid the nearby villages. Also, in Quest for the Silver Sword, we learn that Elladin Silvercrest (an elf) and his family have been in possession of the "frozen sword" for "hundreds of years". Perhaps Silvercrest's family is the major elf clan in TR, and the sword may be somehow tied in with things? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 13:19:43 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Races of Thunder Rift Havard Faanes wrote: > * Humans: These were the last major race arriving in > TR. Which culture would they be of? If placed near > Darokin as suggested elsewhere, would it be natural to > assume that they are of Daro origin? See my timeline for more, but I think we can assume that. (Still have to read a bit more about the Daros, though. :) > * Dwarves: Could the Farolas Dwarves be linked to any > of the clans of Rockhome? Let's see, from the dwarf language section of Gaz6: "Far"= (noun) wrecker, ruiner "Or"= (noun) gravel "Las"= unknown Let's say their name was Far-Or-Las; depending on what "las" means, it sounds like the Farolas were quarry workers ("wreck gravel"). Miners, then. Maybe a minor family of the Syrklist clan. Now, TR says that Farolas was the name of the dwarf who first set foot in TR, not the clan, but I suppose we could interpret that differently. In any case, I set some theories on their origins in my response to your timeline thread also. > * Elves: I am sort of assuming that these hail from > Alfheim, could they be linked to any of the major > clans from that country? Good question. I think maybe we should try to link them through Elladin Silvercrest (from Quest for the Silver Sword). His family is mentioned as having the "frozen sword" (the silver sword?) for centuries. Perhaps their Silver Sword is somehow related to the silver swords used by the Silver Warriors (bodyguards of the Faedorne) of the Shining Isles? > * Halflings: Halflings arrived in Thunder Rift, > probably around the same time the elves and the > dwarves did. Can this be linked to any special period > of Five Shires history? Their main center in TR is in > the Torlynn area. See my response to your timeline for more, but I think we should link them to the Clanstrife period in Shaerdon. > * Rakasta: These guys arrived only a few years ago and only have a minor presence. >As discussed elsewhere, > they are assumed to be from Myoshima. They have > recently settled on the Vailing Plateau on in the > Gauntlin forest. The means by which they reached TR could be linked with the same dimensional magicks that seem prevalent in the region (the portal to Bywater, the wizard workings that brought the Phantom Ship into TR, etc.) Now, as to why they left Myoshima...? They seem content to settle in by themselves, and not expand, whereas the image I've always had of imperial Myoshima is one of aggressive expansion/war. Perhaps they were a group of rakasta who weren't on the same political mindset as the Myoshiman emperor, and thus war was declared on them/they were made unwelcome, and thus fled Myoshima and ended up in TR. > * Gnolls: Gnolls control part of the Gauntlin Forest. > These guys probably entered the Valley around BC1000, > when Gnolls invaded Traladara and pretty much the rest > of the Known World after escaping the control of the > Nithians. Bugbears and Minotaurs were probably also > among their numbers. I don't know about the Bugbears- BBs and Gnolls in Mystara don't seem to get along all that well. > * Ogres: Ogres are found in the Grakken woods, but do > not leave the forest. Yeah, what's up with those ogres? And the Grakken woods always seem to me to be crying out for a Gakarak guardian. > Hmm...did I miss anything? I think you pretty well covered it. IIRC, there are definitely hobgoblins working for the Black Knight (Sword and Shield), so your assumption about them in the TR are pretty spot on. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 13:22:09 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Dragon's Den (was: Map of Thunder Rift?) Havard Faanes wrote: > Also, I'd love to learn more about those Otter-men. I > guess I'll have to dig out that module myself now. I think (though I'm not sure) that the Otter-men are actually the Mugumba, who turn up on the Serpent Peninsula in Champions of Mystara. I'm not sure (after all, the Mugumba are beaver men, not otter men), but I thought someone else mentioned that once. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 13:26:53 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Rage of the Rakasta / Escape from Thunder Rift question Christopher M Cherrington wrote: > 4. Rakasta are from Ashai, but no Rakasta will divulge where that place is. > They were chased from their homeland by a dragon. They traveled for years > settling in many different places before settling in TR. Interesting. If we go with "Ashai= part of Myoshima" then how's this work: The shoguns of Ashai have long been advocates of a return to Myoshiman isolation, and have often found themselves at odds with the expansionist tendencies of the ruling Kitamuran emperors. Most recently, the Kitamurans have enlisted their dragon allies to put pressure on the Ashai shogunate, eventually expanding into full fledged war, during the course of which the Ashais (or at least a small group) were forced to flee their province. Through some means, they traveled to Mystara, where they wandered for years before finally arriving in Thunder Rift, their magicks having detected a magical device (the monolith) that had similar qualities to their own moon. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 22:40:17 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Dragons Den in Karameikos You are absolutely right about these Andrew, thanks for pointing them out :) Havard --- Andrew Theisen skrev: > Havard Faanes wrote: > > >Bailif Wortley = Yolanda of Luln (Close enough) > > Don't you mean Mistress Sascia? (Yolanda is her > cousin the singer) > > >Rollstone =Werescalot? > > IIRC, there is a Rollstone Keep in the Shires close > to Wereskalot. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 00:03:19 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Timeline draft (was: Thunder Rift stuff ) --- Andrew Theisen skrev: > Havard Faanes wrote: > >Timeline events: > >BC ??? > >Orcs, Goblins and Kobolds enter the valley. They > are > >of relative small numbers, but grow slowly. > > Were the humanoids the first in the valley? I > thought the dwarves and elves were. I may have > missed that part, though. In any case, the great > migrations of Akkila-Khan and Loark both could have > passed through the region and settled there. So put > this, c. 1700 > BC? The Elves and Dwarves are mentioned first in the text, but reading it gave me the impression that the orcs and goblinoids had been there all along. It can be read either way though. BC 1700 works for me. > >?? BC > >Hutaakans enter the valley (Not canon) > This would need to be somewhere between 1500 and > 1000 BC, I would think. I think this might be as early as 1500 since Pflarr simply spread the Hutaakans around at that time. The way I see it, Thunder Rift was the second largest Hutaakan colony at that time, second only to the Lost Valley in Traladara. This would give the Hutaakans about 500 years before the Gnolls enter TR and wipe them out, leaving only a few remenants such as the Monolith, and perhaps the pitt behind. The wizards of wizardspire may also have found some Hutaakan artifacts which may still be residing within that stronghold. Also, dungeons and ruins all over the valley could be of Hutaakan origin. > The elves don't arrive in Brun until c.800 BC, IIRC. > At that time, the central area of future Darokin is > mostly grasslands and plains (until they do all > their magic mumbo-jumbo). Perhaps a group of elves > splits off from Mealiden's migration at this point > and discovers/settles the forested valley of Thunder > Rift. I was thinking the same. So BC 800: Elves breaking off from Mealiden's Migration find their way into the valley. This could be linked with the Silvercrest family you mention later on? > As for the dwarves, their own history has the > orc/goblin tribal movements of 1000 BC as a major > point of their history. Perhaps the settlers of > Thunder Rift (led by Farolas, the first dwarf to set > foot in TR) were actually pioneering new > fortifications to push the invaders out? Making Farolas the original Dwarf leader is a good idea. All of this sounds good, the Dwarves probably enter the valley a few years after BC1000, just after the Hutaakan civilization has been wiped out by Gnolls. Btw, what would be a good dwarven translation for Hearth-Home? > On the matter of the halflings, I think the best > time to fit them in is between 811 and 802, as a > group of refugees fleeing the civil war that marked > the Clanstrife in Shaerdon. (Some of them may have > remained among the elves at this time- there is at > least one halfling village in/around Alfheim, in the > Emerlas region of the north/northwestern Canolbarth > described in O2: Blade of Vengeance). Nice! This fits very well. You sure know your history. > >BC ?? > >Rift Wars: Bloody wars rage between elves and > dwarves, > >lasting probably for a century. Orcs and Goblins > raid > >both sides, blaming it on the other races. > > This would have started right around the same time, > when the dwarves and elves first make contact. > Perhaps this is the origin of the antipathy between > the dwarves and elves elsewhere? (It hasn't ever > really been explained other than, "elves flighty, > dwarves serious"). The races are cautious at first, since they are wary of eachother. I got the impression that the two races were simply paranoid and that fear of oneanother started the whole thing. Ofcourse, the entire History of Thunder Rift seems to have been specifically written to enforce bad D&D cliches, but I am trying to pretend that that isnt the case :P Anyways, perhaps we could give them 10 years, so say BC 790 before the war breaks out? The war could last quite a while, granted that these are long-lived races we are talking about. I say a 50-year long conflict isnt too much, given that this is the major event in TR's history. So the war would last from BC790-740, ended by the united dwarf/elf offensive against the humanoids. > >BC ?? > >Humans (Daro?) enter the valley. They build castles > >and towns, taking over large portions of the > valley. > > I don't really recall much about the Daros. I'll > have to read up, but I assume these are the clans > (such as the Eastwind) who originally settled there? > If so, this is reasonable. They were fighting > against orcs and orc-kin largely, and largely > unsuccessfully, until the arrival of the elves. The > elves provide covert assistance, and their presence > helps to drive the orcs away. As the humans settled > into the region more, they would have expanded > outwards, and I could see some of them entering the > rift valley. I dont know much about the human movements in that area myself. I just threw out the Daros, hoping someone would correct me. ;) We should probably check this out. Anyone else got ideas for which humans should be involved? > >BC ?? > >Humans encounter the other races of the Valley. > >Tension between Elves, Dwarves and Men again > threaten > >to cause war, but this is avoided as Goblins and > Orcs > >return, forcing Elves, Humans, Dwarves and > halflings > >to unite against these races. Humans gain respect > and > >friendship of the other races, but distrust between > >elves and dwarves continue. > > Again, this would probably take place very near the > above date (the valley just isn't big enough to > *not* encounter the others within fairly short > order) Makes sense. Still, they seem to have time to build quite a few castles and strongholds before they get into trouble with the dwarves and the elves. These two races keep it pretty quiet for a while, licking their wounds from the previous confict. > >BC ?? > >A strange plague spreads in Thunder Rift, but > affects > >only the good races. Eventually the most powerful > >human clerics manage to turn the plague away, and > >fought off another wave of humanoid attacks. [Plague ideas] > Anyway, so this earlier plague could be the origins > of the larger plague that reached even the valley of > Thunder Rift. I never even thought of linking this plague to something going on in the rest of the world, but why not. This helps connect the valley to the rest of the known world. Having Yagrai release an early "test"-plague works for me. > >BC ?? [Thagrat & Thessandria] > > I'm still intrigued by this part of TR. Just > throwing some ideas out here, but perhaps the two > races were so disgusted by the thought of the two > marrying that a) certain factions did arrange for > their deaths, b) the rest were so distraught that > they turned their backs on overt hostility and > simply avoid one another, and c) the nations from > which they were most closely tied- Rockhome and > Alfheim- turned their backs on the valley > altogether, ceasing any diplomatic contact that they > might once have had. As long as they had been aware > of the inhabitants of TR, the monolith's magic that > kept the valley hidden was not very effective, but > once they turned their backs on them, then the > monolith was able to do its work, and the clans of > dwarves and elves that had entered the valley were > only remembered as "lost". Similarly, the > inhabitants of the valley also came to believe that > the outside world was no longer. This is certainly one of the major events in TR history (in additon to the Rift Wars). I like the explaination that this drove the outside connections with the races away and helped reinforce the Monolith's power. > >AC ?? > >Human community grows. > Now we're getting into more modern history. From the > module "Knight of Newts" it is established that > "around 800 years ago) the horned hills were overrun > with goblins, leading to the establishment of Castle > Kraal. I would assume that Kraal was staffed > primarily by warriors from the academy, so if Kraal > was built c. 200 AC or so, then the > fighters/wizards/etc. schools were probably > established a bit earlier, maybe as early as a > century before. I really hate the name "Fighter's Academy". There is something about making in-game references to game mechanical terms, such as classes that doesn't sit well with me. Any way we can avoid this, naming it the Order of Jameson? or the Defender Academy? Hmm..probably not. Anyways, Fighters academy established: AC 100 Kraal Castle built: AC 200 Works for me. > It took two years for the swamps to be drained and > Kraal built, so c.202 AC. (BTW, should we come up > with a different calendar for TR? Not based on the > crowning of the emperor? "who's that?" Maybe > beginning with the founding of the Quadrial. AQ- in > which case we should move the date of the founding > of the Quadrial so it doesn't match exactly with the > crowning of the emperor.) I agree, having the establishment of the Quadrial in AC0 is probably too much of a convenience, especially if that is the beginning of the TR calendar, which is a good idea. Actually, the establishment of the Fighter's academy happens only a few years after the murder of Thargat and Thessandria. Perhaps the establishment of the Quadrial happens in AC 90? This means you have to subtract 90 from regular timelines to get AQ and vice versa.... > Castle Kraal served dutifully for about 100 years > before rumors of decadence among the warriors there > really sank in. (c. 302 AC). > > Then, 7 years later, a new commander was placed in > charge, who began to turn things around (c. 309 AC). > Unfortunately, before she could completely fix > things, Castle Kraal was sunk by mysterious magicks > employed by the newts and a traitor to the ranks. > > Perhaps these events helped to initiate the next > phase... Given that Kraal was associated with the Fighter's Academy, that makes alot of sense. > >AC ?? > >Sword vs Wand: Mages of Wizardspire go to war > agains > >the warrios of Sir Jameson's Academy. The mages > >unleash devastating magic that turn their enemies > >lands into what will be known as the Gloomfens. > > ... as the warriors who heard of Castle Kraal's > sinking were probably convinced the wizards had > something to do with it. So the sinking of castle Kraal would be the reason for the breakout of the war? Perhaps Castle Kraal was somehow seen as the Pride of the Fighters' Academy? > >AC ??+1 > >One year later a group of warrios infiltrate the > >Wizardspire and kill every last Sorcerer there. > > Which would follow whatever date we have for the > above. Yup. > >AC 1000 ?? > >Rakasta arrive in Thunder Rift and settle on the > >Wailing Plateau (Rage of Rakasta) > > > >AC 1010 > >The present. > > I'm curious why you go with 1010 as the present (I > use 1000 myself). Not that it really matters, but > just curious. IIRC, TR was published after the publication of WotI. After that TSR said that all future products will be using AC1010 as present day. It doesnt really matter though. The arrival of the Rakasta is said of have happened not long ago. I gave them 10 years. Is that too much? > Some other dates that I have: > > "Centuries ago"- Henrik van Decken joins his Queen's > army in a war. Years later, he gets his own ship and > attempts to sail around a treacherous and notorious > souther cape. He and his crew are cursed, and his > ship becomes a ghost ship, seen off and on ever > since. It is drawn to TR by the wizards at one point > (IIRC, during the war with the fighters). Which module is this from? > Now this might give us an interesting point of > reference. Van Decken sounds like a very Hattian > name, but of course, there were no Hattian queens or > kings (only emperors). So who was he working for? > And during what war? There is a Hattian rebellion in > 313 AC (which is crushed by the emperor Alexian II). > Maybe this is the time in question? Fits pretty well with the Fighters/Wizards war, which I think is a good connection to use. Van Decken sounds more Flaem than Hattian, and the ship story is probably related to the story of the Flying dutchman. That doesn't solve which Queen is in question though. > And that treacherous cape sounds to me like the > Serpent Peninsula. If so, perhaps van Decken was one > of the first sailors to attempt to go around the SP, > c. 425 AC or so? (right around the time of first > contact with Sind and parts west). Over the next > "several decades" their ghost ship is spotted near > the cape. Given that, and that around 425 is when a > lot of commerce was going on, I'd imagine his ship > tried the passage even earlier, so his history might > look something like: This part sounds good. > c.300 AC: Henrik van Decken joins (his queen?) the > Hattian rebellion against the Thyatians. > c.313 AC: The rebellion crushed, van Decken flees to > Minrothad, where he obtains a ship of his own and > becomes a successful merchant seaman. > c. 320 AC: Henrik van Decken and his crew attempt to > make a treacherous crossing around the Serpent > Peninsula (in the "teeth" between Yavdlom and the > SP). They fail, and are cursed to repeat their > journey for eternity. > c.350 AC: The ghost ship of van Decken is first > spotted by Minrothad sailors plying the trades > around Yavdlom. > c. 400 AC: Wizards in Thunder Rift, working with > dimensional magicks beyond their control, > inadvertently summon van Decken's ghost ship to TR. Even if Van Decken is Flaem, he might still join the Hattian rebellion. Perhaps his Queen's Army is simply a reference to Queen Vanya? Maybe he joined the Hattians of religious reasons? > (then, sometime around here, the wizards and > warriors go to war) > > Present -20+ years: The wizard Barrik dies, leaving > his tower near Torlynn empty. > > Present -19 years: Agryl, the son of the Black > Knight, is born. He is the last scion of the > fighter's academy. (We should work in the BK's role > with the fall of the fighter academy, and his > subsequent creation of an assassin's academy.) > > Present -3 years: Lights are spotted in a Barrik's > tower. > > Present -2+ years: The infamous thief Raven > commissions goblin servants to build him a new keep. > Once the keep is complete, he drives them off into > the hills once more. > > The wererat Keshute comes to Thunder Rift from parts > unknown (this doesn't jibe with the 3 years ago > mentioned as for the lights, I presume its an > oversight on the part of the author of the module). > > The burgomaster of Torlynn dispatches adventurers to > see what is going on in Barrik's tower. They do not > return, and a mysterious (and unseasonable) winter > begins to set in around Torlynn. > > Present -2 years: Raven disappears from TR. Most > people are not too disappointed to see him vanish, > save that his keep becomes overrun with goblins who > raid the nearby villages. These are all good. > Also, in Quest for the Silver Sword, we learn that > Elladin Silvercrest (an elf) and his family have > been in possession of the "frozen sword" for > "hundreds of years". Perhaps Silvercrest's family is > the major elf clan in TR, and the sword may be > somehow tied in with things? We should definately use this for what it is worth. The Silvercrest Clan may certainly be one of the major clans in Gauntlin Forest (I was thinking about referring to them as the Gauntlin Clan, but having more than one clan, makes more sense, leaving Gauntlin as the name of the "country"). Im up for ideas on the Frozen Sword. Could it be related to the Fighter/Wizard war? Havard ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:35:04 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Rage of the Rakasta / Escape from Thunder Rift question Andrew Theisen wrote: > > The Myoshiman portal was from my Pateran timeline originally- before > that, we weren't given any indication of how they got to Patera, > or even if the Pateran rakasta were in any way related to the > Mystaran rakasta. Well, there is the VotPA article on Bellayne, which gives some info on Myoshiman Rakasta as well. I don't remember now the details, but there was a Myoshiman ambassador in Bellayne. -- Giampaolo Agosta http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 22 May 2004 to 23 May 2004 (#2004-113) ****************************************************************