Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 30 May 2004 to 1 Jun 2004 (#2004-119) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 02/06/2004, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 3 messages totalling 67 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Origins of the Temples of Rad? (3) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 16:15:25 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Origins of the Temples of Rad? I just posted this over on the MMB, but I thought I'd put it here, too, to see what kind of feedback I might get: Doing some thinking about the d'Ambrevilles (they've been on my mind a lot lately... Anyway, while doing so, I got to thinking about the Shepherds of Rad, organized and secretly led by, of course, Etienne "Rad" d'Ambreville. What struck me, though, was the timeline. The Shepherds and Temples of Rad are seemingly a very influential, or at least relatively widespread and innocuous aspect of Glantrian society- their answer to "religious worship" minus the paying homage to the Immortals. But Rad as an Immortal didn't appear on/near Mystara until 979 AC- he couldn't have. By the timeline as established (most evidently) in Mark of Amber, but reinforced in other areas (PC4 was, I think the first "canonical" reference to the module X2 taking place in 979 AC)- that timeline has it that Etienne was not fully Immortal when he was "killed" by Henri and Catharine, thus sending the Chateau d'Ambreville and its inhabitants into the Land of Grey Mists (or, as I like to think of it, Ravenloft. Etienne, upon his "resurrection" in 979 (module X2), is now the Immortal Rad. So he couldn't possibly have established the Temples of Rad until this date. So does that make the Temples of Rad only about 21 years old c. 1000 AC (Gazetteer period)? They've gained a lot of influence in that time, but I guess I could see it happening. Probably the result of Rad attempting to gain power/followers by instituting a following in Glantri- a difficult task, considering the Glantrians non-clerical ways. Pretty insidious that he managed to pull it off, and especially while sticking to the "non-cleric" line, so that other Immortals cannot make an inroads. Or- another possibility that intrigues me- What if "Rad" merely subverted an existing organization? What if the Temples of Rad were in Glantri from an early age, preaching their "non-Immortal" sermon, and thus well-established in that nation by the time Etienne reappeared on the scene in 979 AC? And Etienne, newly Immortal, and seeking followers, merely "jumped in", gaining control/influence over the Temples of Rad by the establishment of the Order of the Radiance and their crystal balls? A ready-made following (it would help explain how he gained such a high Immortal level during only 21 years as well). And- this appeals to my "More Sinister than Wacky" d'Ambreville mentality- what if Etienne subverted an organization that had been originally created by another d'Ambreville? One of his brothers, in fact? What if the Temples of Rad had originally been established by Simon "I've Always Been Evil Since X2, Despite Later Changes To Make Me Good" d'Ambreville? See, my Simon is an evil cleric- one who cavorts with the Cthulhianic entities the family entreats with as alluded to in X2- and I was thinking that it would be deliciously ironic if he had established a "non-Immortal" worshipping group (the Temples of Rad), who were secretly backed by the Outer Beings, but that Etienne later subverted them to himself (as Rad). Heh, heh... Anyway, thoughts on any parts of this stream of thought? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 16:49:44 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Origins of the Temples of Rad? Replying to my own message, because I just came up with some more interesting thoughts on the matter: IMC, I've always had the d'Ambrevilles involved in the 40 Years' War in Glantri, using the war and conditions in the country to jockey for position in the family and political arenas of the young nation of "not-yet-Glantri". Again borrowing inspiration from Roger Zelazny's Amber series, I had Henri (as Brand-counterpart) involved with Halzunthram from Alphatia- he cut a deal with the Alphatians to help bring them over to Glantri in order to secure himself a better position down the road. Richard and his wife, Isidore, were mostly working with (and sympathetic to) the Thyatian and Traladaran immigrants, largely due to Richard's desire to be taken seriously as a leader in a land ruled (mostly up to that point) by Flaemish wizards. Guillaume and his wife (and their puppet master mother, Marie-Helene) were working with the Flaems, and were mostly persecuting the migrant priests, who they targeted as being rabble rousers against the Flaemish "party line". Charles was working behi nd the scenes to his own ends, but appeared to be allied with Richard. I had always figured Simon (my version) was busy with his own militant-religious movement of some sort (with or without the backing of other family members; the records are unclear on this point ;). At any rate, he was a minor figure. Now, I think I've finally hit upon the final piece of the puzzle. If we go with Simon as the predominant leader/organizer of the Temples of Rad, he fills a larger (much larger) niche than previously, in my version. Drawing upon both the anti-clerical and anti-Flaemish sentiment in the region during that time leading up to and involving the 40 Years' War, Simon- who had been trained in clerical practices back in his homeland, and was a very charismatic sacred leader- organizes an public movement that is, on the surface clerical. However, it avoids the trappings of paying homage to Immortals, and thus avoids the distinction of being seen as just another group of clerics (and thus avoids persecution by Guillaume and his minions, though barely. This of course only leads the two to hate one another more.) This also has the benefit of concealing Simon's true motives, as an agent of other, darker powers than the Immortals. After the Forty Years' War, this movement is still around, and has grown more influential and powerful. It suffers a major stroke, however, in 896 AC when its leader, Simon, goes missing along with the rest of his family. For the next 80 years or so the movement falters quite a bit. Then, in 979 AC, the head shepherd receives a vision, and a gift- a crystal. By looking into the crystal, he sees ways in which he can reorganize the Temples of Rad and strengthen the movement. He has more such crystals created, and the movement once again grows, and spreads its influence throughout Glantri. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 18:57:20 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Origins of the Temples of Rad? Anticipating that there might be some reluctance or just general dislike of the Outer Beings angle on things, or just for those that prefer a less obtrusive and sinister organization, or the "kinder, gentler" version of Simon, here are some ideas: 1) Simon's stay in the Land of Grey Mists really changed him. By the time he escapes with the rest of the family in 979 AC, he has become "born again" (literally and figuratively). He is now the good hearted soul, and leaves to explore the world, eventually becoming a priest of Razud. 2) Simon becomes a priest of Razud when he comes to Mystara, and (knowing the dislike of Immortals of the Flaems) organizes the Temples of Rad to provide some measure of counseling and service to the people of Braejr, in hopes of either one day instituting a more formal following, or just to provide what succor he can. In any case, he could still be the instrumental "founder" of the organization, leaving the seeds of which Etienne later expands upon when he adopts the guise of "Rad". ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 30 May 2004 to 1 Jun 2004 (#2004-119) ***************************************************************